T O P
chowdahdog

Wilbon and Kornhesier are always a good choice


Dawgbowl

When they retire the ESPN field will be wide open... Lol


Collecting_Cans

Minus a few odd choices, that was actually a surprisingly solid tennis analysis on the whole, by two guys who don’t cover tennis.


aaronjosephs123

Yeah they missed sinner which made me upset but overall everything they said pretty much makes sense.


[deleted]

Also I would say Jennifer Brady should be named before Sloane Stephens… at least if we are talking about Americans in the near future.


Chosen1gup

Brady is 27 and hasn’t played in over a year due to chronic injuries that don’t seem to be going away. Hard to see her coming back to her best. Even more accomplished players like Thiem and and Kenin don’t look like they’ll get back to slam winning form any time soon.


Szmeges

Wow. I actually forgot about her. When was last time she played?


lndngtm

If it weren’t for that 5-setter against Alcaraz, casuals would have thought that Sinner is a person who sins


aaronjosephs123

he is a person who sins, shoulda served out the match in the 4th set


lndngtm

Okay you have a point there. I guess I was trying to say sports casuals probably wouldn’t know much about who Sinner is when compared to Alcaraz, Tiafoe, Kyrgios, etc..


jdmay101

Nah. Anyone who says Raducanu in the context of contenders to prevent Iga from being dominant doesn't know what they're talking about. Same probably goes for Tiafoe, to a much lesser extent - I think Tiafoe just had a good tournament and he's going to be one of those players who occasionally has a deep run but doesn't consistently make SFs. The bigger question is what you mean by "dominate". Iga can certainly dominate if that's what you'd call what she did this year already, even though she's not much of a threat on grass. If someone has to be clearly the best tennis player in the world on every surface to be considered "dominant", then not even Federer accomplished that.


Collecting_Cans

Not sure if you’ve seen these rise & shine sports talk shows on US cable, but usually their tennis talking points sound like this: Serena good, Rafa good, nostalgic reference to Sampras-Agassi, now back to Lebron, NFL, etc. The bar is low. But yeah Raducanu, Sloane, Tiafoe and the omission of Sinner would be a few of the odd choices I was referring to above. I was pleasantly surprised that they were a little bit nuanced and didn’t race to anoint Iga and Carlos as dynasties, an easy trap for these kinds of shows to fall into.


jdmay101

Yeah, fair enough, I'm very happy not to watch that garbage. There's no actual analysis on those shows, just hot takes. They don't even know much of anything about the sports they talk about daily. These guys are a bit different though in that they long predate the Skip Bayless "sports shouting" model that now dominates US sports TV, so yeah a bit more nuance there, but even so I doubt either of them has watched a match outside of a major this year...


lndngtm

That’s exactly the point I had. You could throw in Pegula, Collins, and Gauff in there. Sure these women either were consistent or had a good tournament recently, but so far, they have done nothing to show that they can both stay competitive with Iga and win multiple titles. ESPN is obviously American biased, but it’s a bit disrespectful to Iga to mention some of the names he has mentioned who hasn’t even had half the season that Iga had. And also Barty? Let the woman retire in peace. Osaka? Let her get to the same level she was in earlier in her career first.


jdmay101

The thing is... Iga just won a major while playing on a faster surface she prefers with balls she has always said were trash. And she did it while playing at... what would you say, 70% of her peak form? Maybe? She looked shaky all tournament and apparently was coming off an injury. If "nowhere near her best" Swiatek is gutting out wins at majors at age 21, then that's a pretty big "yikes" for the rest of the WTA going forward, because that's the type of poise I wouldn't have expected from her yet.


lndngtm

When people start to doubt her, she finds a way to prove them wrong. Peak Iga will be pretty scary.


BigusG33kus

Come on, they're rambling.


Kule7

They named about 12 actual tennis players. That's about all they had to do to beat my expectations. They might go another 2 years without talking about tennis again after this.


KyleG

It's almost like dominance is boring, and as soon as there are many names in the mix, it's not boring!


cherm27

Yeah within their writers/producers are a couple tennis fans that gave them some basic talking points. I guess it’s nice next gen is being mentioned, but I don’t think this is anything special.


Grouchy_Square

I mean….this seems unbelievably generous


OpinionSwimming7773

Raducanu, Sloane Stephens, flmao


kawelli

I never thought espn could do passable tennis coverage… yay?


chutsal123

I mean this seems like pretty good analysis


Earnmuse_is_amanrag

Points in favour of Iga: Already an established number 1 Gap between her and the field seems to be pretty wide Challengers aren't as consistent as her Not as physical a game style as Alcaraz, so probably fewer chances of injuries (though those two things aren't always correlated) Extreme dominance on clay, that seems unlikely to go away No big 3/Serena to stop her Points in favour of Alcaraz: Probably a more complete and well rounded tennis player Still only 19 Best of 5 prevents upsets Men usually are able to play later into their 30s than women


OpinionSwimming7773

The gap between Iga and the field is not that wide on grass & hard court


Mysquff

Agreed about grass, but hard court? Obviously Iga prefers clay, but she won three WTA 1000s and a slam on hard courts this year. And she didn't even play that well during the US Open.


OpinionSwimming7773

She lost to BHM in Toronto, straight set loss to Madison Keys in Cincy, taken to 3 sets twice at the USO. She is a great hard court player, but let's not pretend that she is untouchable/dominant. I wouldn't say that the gap between her and the field is too wide to bridge


Mysquff

Hmm, maybe we understand "dominant" differently. I agree she's not "untouchable" and is going to lose on hard courts every once in a while, but I think she's definitely dominant in terms of actually winning hard court trophies. This year, apart from Iga, only Barty, Halep and Garcia were able to win a hard court slam or WTA 1000 and they only won one each, whereas Iga won three WTA 1000s and a slam. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next few years Iga continued to win a hard court slam and multiple WTA 1000s every year, whereas the rest would be won by random different players each time. So yeah, I agree she may not be as untouchable as she's on clay, but I think her consistency will ultimately make her pretty dominant on hard courts.


bunsburner1

Amazing the turn around in commentary on a Ruud here. Before the final he was constantly getting slamned as an undeserving #1 who can't beat top 10 players who coasted through on easy draws and low level tournaments. Now he's one of the top prospects for future slam winners


mav_sand

That's a nod to the fact he reached 2 GS finals. You gotta respect that. Add to that a desire to see a new generation, the expectation is there that he will go on to win some and challenge Alcaraz.


bunsburner1

A lot of those negative comments happened when he was already through to be finals. I suspect if Alcaraz didn't make the finals and he got #1 without USO the narrative around him would be pretty different.


siegeoftyre

I still am quite low on him. Don't think he will ever win a Slam. He played well to reach two Slam finals but that doesn't change the fact he got extremely favorable draws.


OpinionSwimming7773

I mean, he did lose in straight sets to Ben Shelton a week before the USO, so I can't fault people too much for that take


Voissed

I am so impressed they knew how to pronounce Iga's last name. This lowkey made me wanna watch again those TikToks of the southern uncle pronouncing tennis players names 😂😂 (actually we need an update/continuation)


Inbarindoors

Link pls 🙏


Voissed

I am trying so hard to find it, will let you know if I do. It was posted here but I stupidly didn't save it....


bang_sloots

Let me know if anyone finds it this sounds hilarious


Voissed

I found it but the OP deleted the videos and I'm legit upset right now https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/m8lgyh/if_tennis_fans_were_retirementage_men_from_texas/


Inbarindoors

Thanks anyway!


jsnoodles

The bloke thinking Barty isn’t done is my hero.


Jeffersons_Mammoth

Iga 100 percent. Barty’s retirement severely weakened the current WTA field.


Rafarox21

If Osaka got her head out of the gutter I think she and iga would be the 2 best players in the wta


thrallus

Tony and Wilbon are the last two respectable journalists at ESPN.


Albiceleste_D10S

I am pleasantly surprised. Not awful takes!


jgwil2

Is the title supposed to be ironic? I don't think there's anything in here that could be considered delusional or America-centric, with the exception perhaps of listing Tiafoe as a guy who is going to be challenging for majors going forward.


overtired27

Presumably not, though I agree it read as sarcasm before watching.


verismonopoly

You got me with the title until he said Raducanu... the rest I could understand because of their form the past 12 months...


lukaskywalker

Honestly alcaraz does look like he could potentially dominate. Dude is 19. He would have likely beat anyone this tourney. It would not surprise me to see him have double digit slams in a while. Barring injuries


veilsofrealitydotcom

Idk he seems to believe Iga has competition.


[deleted]

The guy on the right does. Looks like left thinks it’s easy goings for Iga.


ZaatarCrusted

I expected the answer to be “Michael Jordan”. Good stuff.


wanderingsailor36

What channel is this? I need my tennis news like this in addition to other styles.


PanJawel

why are they yelling so much


jgwil2

It's the format of the show. The co-hosts are "competing" to make better arguments than the other within a limited amount of time so they tend to talk fast and loud. It's been on for 25+ years and has spawned many imitators.


PanJawel

Absolutely nauseating format


[deleted]

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PanJawel

Just because I talk like that when I’m excited with friends, doesn’t mean I would record it for people to watch lol. American TV is weird.


clapclapJH31

I don’t get why everyone is calling this great analysis. On the mens side, why mention Tiafoe when there are players like Sinner, Tsitsipas and FAA who are all better and younger. Then players like Rublev, Zverev and Fritz who are only a year or so older but produce a lot better tennis. I like Tiafoe and hope he wins titles but he has only reached the quarter final of 1 tournament at masters or slam level in the past 3 and a half years. On the womens side, Iga looks like she will dominate. I don’t get how saying you don’t believe Barty has retired is good analysis. Good analysis would be questioning whether Iga can keep up this level of tennis or improve. Because she isn’t number 1 because of injuries and missed tournaments like Alcaraz is, she is number 1 with over double the points of number 2. I am not saying she will dominate but you have to recognise all the players he mentioned haven’t looked like reaching a level close to Iga. (Apart from Barty)


lndngtm

After posting this, the biggest lesson I learned is that the bar for ESPN tennis analysis in this community is very low


OSUfirebird18

So even though they both know nothing about tennis…in a way, they’re not wrong. I don’t think either Swiatek or Alcaraz will be dominant…at least in the way we think of it. Serena and the Big 3 have destroyed our perspective of what is realistic. Getting over 1 slam a year is insane. Maybe Swiatek and Alcaraz can do that. But if they only get a slam every other year, but still maintain several weeks at number 1, I would call that dominant. It’s just now, we equate dominance with the levels of Serena and the Big 3. If they don’t live up to that, they will be unfairly judged as a result.


shegotofftheplane

At the end did they say they don’t know if Osaka is ever gonna play again 😭


Prairy_fire

Can’t wait for Stephen a smith to start chiming in


coreynj2461

Theyre still biased though. No credit to Bianca or Tomjanovic when they beat Serena


Rafarox21

No lol this is a casual take by wilbon about the men's side at least. Reeks of "diplomatic answer to not look dumb if it turns out to be wrong". If you watch tennis you definitely know alcaraz is completely different, along with sinner maybe a tier below. Djokovic and rafa are also still there but for 2-3 years more while alcaraz continues to get better. Medvedev doesn't do shit at 2 of 4 slams and tiafoe is a one slam wonder so mentioning him just means he just started watching in the last month


MeatTornado25

It reeks of someone handed him a list of tennis players names to say. Neither of them actually knows anything remotely in-depth about tennis. 4 times a year tops they'll do a minute segment on the champ of the recent major.


Rafarox21

Definitely. But hey it worked our perfectly for them because everyone in here is praising them for having at least some tennis knowledge


treple13

Dominate is such a strong word though. To me to "dominate" it likely means winning at least 3 Grand Slams in a year. Definitely seems a casual opinion, but it's plausible that neither "dominates" in that way.


Macohry

I agree with you, I don’t know what I would classify dominate to be, but I don’t think someone will dominate the tour


qwertyasdf151

This is not delusional, but it is a somewhat inaccurate analysis of the tour


strikershiv95

Lol classic espn 🤣 I wish there were other channels other than Tennis Channel where we could get proper tennis analysis at least in the USA, since tennis is not even top 4 most popular sport here 😔


The1AndOnlyJZ

These guys sometimes have the most head scratching NBA takes — super pleasantly surprised that they held their own talking about this


Awilltobemerry

r/tennis is obsessed with the USA


Grouchy_Square

I would honestly rather them not talk about it than spout that nonsense


robottalker

Lol who are these clowns? There are probably 1000 people on this sub who could offer more enlightened tennis "analysis".


[deleted]

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Mortiis07

They have a short amount of time on each subject, there's a timer, so they talk fast


sophiecoyote

Yes, American sports commentators and cable news folk only shout never speak at a normal volume. Never listen


Nick_from_Yuma

Seriously may have been the most educated thing Mike Wilbon has said


Rodin-V

Why are they shouting while just having a conversation? Is this a US host thing? None of our analysts in the UK shout like this, just calm collected discussion.


Marchesk

Clearly you've never watched a Stephen A clip. https://youtu.be/iSWKsRxWg0Q


lndngtm

I love his abusive relationship with the Knicks


Jkpoker13

I feel they kinda suck at tennis commentary because they aren’t big tennis fans- normal bc you wouldn’t expect American big wig commentators to follow a less popular sport. I say swiatek here. She’s going to win many majors I feel. Alca is good thought and young. I feel he plays too many long matches even at 19 where he’s always a risk to be bounced if he’s losing sets and going against a game opponent. I feel your nadal/ djokovic/ nadals weren’t dropping sets when winning majors like alca. Alca is 19 though. Idk think it’s tough to win majors if you are going to drop many sets before the meat and bones part of the tourny- quarters and later.


homesicalien

Why are they shouting at each other? Are they trying to communicate directly by-passing audio-video connection?


Wesley_Ford_Sr

u/savevideo


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AwesomeBrawler

Who the hell watches tennis and only looks at americans???


diecorporations

i personally just stream all the action. If someone else wants to watch, i turn the tv on with the sound off.


OpinionSwimming7773

You had me at Raducanu


Efficient-Heat-5885

Sinner: am I a joke to you?


IAmBecomeBorg

You mean to tell me that two morons who yell at the camera to entertain ignorant Americans aren’t well versed in tennis? Nahhh


el-gato-azul

Do these two guys talk so shouty at the dinner table? Sound like they're gargling gravel.