By - weirdoonmaplestreet_
And somehow ended up with a worse team then they started with
It's not how much you spend but how you spend it. If you buy players that are incompatible with each other you don't get a good team.
If every manager buys only players that fit his personal style then you have an incoherent team after going through a bunch of managers.
You need to have a club philosophy and then hire coaches and players accordingly.
Yeah remember how they signed three 10s before the 17/18 season?
> It's not how much you spend but how you spend it
It's a nice phrase, but in reality you average out, you can't keep getting bargains forever and hope they turn out to be world class, same for outgoings, you can't keep ripping everyone off.
Unless you're M Utd.
They do things differently at Disneyland
That’s actually crazy, I’ve gone back to look at the squad they had before all this spending, in the 15/16 season, and they’ve genuinely got a better squad.
Lukaku, Deulofeu, Mirallas, Barkley, Barry, McCarthy, Coleman, Baines, Jagielka, Stones, Howard, not to mention some very solid squad players and good servants to the club like Osman, Pienaar, Gibson - with half of those playing some of the best football of their careers at that point.
That is monstrously bad recruitment over the last 5 years with the money they’ve spent.
I mean not surprising seeing them drop a ridiculous amount of money on Iwobi
Everton have never really recovered from the loss of Moyes, imo.
That's an easy generalisation to make, especially since Moyes' stock is high atm. But Everton finished fifth the year after he left, under Martinez - up a place from the season before. They literally immediately recovered from losing Moyes. It's just that they made several bad decisions after that, nothing to do with Moyes at that point. And even then, the stretch of 7th/8th finishes were unspectacular but decent at a time the league became far more competitive in terms of other teams spending big.
It's worth noting that a large part of Everton's success came from what Moyes built, the more Martinez started to influence the team long term the worse it got.
The best of Everton was when they had Moyes' defensive solidity blended with Martinez's attacking flair but the longer Moyes was gone the worse they got defensively
You see this sort of thing play out a lot. I've noticed a couple instances where a defensive manager is succeeded by an offensive one and there's an overlap in systems where they seem to have the best of both, until the latter is fully implemented and their defensive solidarity is lost.
Yeah it happens all the time. Pulis to Hughes for us is a great example.
Bilic's first season with us comes to mind
Yeah Bilic was actually the first one that started me noticing the pattern.
> You see this sort of thing play out a lot. I've noticed a couple instances where a defensive manager is succeeded by an offensive one and there's an overlap in systems where they seem to have the best of both, until the latter is fully implemented and their defensive solidarity is lost.
mancini and pellegrini for us
Like how one manager comes in and says “wow these players are out of shape” and bans ketchup. Then the next manager comes in and relaxes the rules and then suddenly it’s “wow those players look like they’re just enjoying playing football again”
It's very common for a team to lose a good manager and do better the season immediately after he leaves to then drop off. When the new manager comes in he will often fix the weaknesses in the team while the overall structure still maintains the old strengths. It's only after a year or two where the new manager begins to fully imprint their coaching on the team that you get a real sense of their new level.
The ship never sinks instantly…
Clearly lost there way and slowly fell off.
One of the reasons why they got 5th was due to Moyes not having a clue what to do with Man Utd.
They looked really good with Koeman I think, better than a lot of the Moyes years
Tbf to Rafa Gray and Townsend have worked well
And then there's Rondon
I feel we overpaid for Rondon and he was free.
To be fair he was your best player against Liverpool.
But yeah, I said on the Newcastle sub when he signed for you that I’d be surprised if he got more than 5 goals in the league this season. He was never going to come back the same player after 2 years in China.
I'm not blaming him though, he was bought as back up and just unfortunately had to be thrown in. He would be good to bring on when chasing a goal to help DCL but he hasn't got it to lead the line alone.
Yeah even with us when he was good it wasn’t really until the second half of the season where he properly got up to speed. He formed a really good partnership with Perez and that’s when we started to look good.
DCL getting injured and then needing a massively off the pace Rondon to lead the line is just far from ideal. Definitely would have been signed for a last 20 minutes “stick it in the mixer” job in mind as you say.
The thing is we don't need Rondon to lead the line, there's plenty of other possibilities but Rafa has stuck with Rondon full 90 after full 90 when it's been so clear he wasn't up to it
Yea he could do well with DCL hopefully get them together soon l, if we keep playing 442 could do well.
Disagree, I thought Gray looked dangerous everytime he got the ball with how direct he plays
And the fact that he scored. Rondon just ran about a lot, didn’t really do much to impact the game. Idk why this guy thinks he was our best performer
I know, I may be biased because I’ve always loved Gray even at Leicester but he’d be a nightmare to try to defend against. So quick and agile
Unnecessary insinuation that the China league, while terrible as it is, diminishes the quality of a player. Because there are quite a few examples who played two seasons there but continue to perform at top levels.
Well of course there is a higher chance of your level dropping if you play two years at a much lower standard, it’s not like he was ripping it up over there either.
It’s quite obvious that he’s off the pace right now and considering he’s 32 it’s hardly nailed on that he’s going to get back to the level that he was at when playing for us.
You're not wrong, just saying his form is more of his quality rather than his experience in the China league. Not defending the China league though, I've watched a few games and it was dreadful.
What I’m saying is that it is unlikely that a player is going to go and play in China or the US or Saudi or Qatar etc and come back a better player, it is far more likely that they will come back and their level will have dropped having played at a rubbish standard, with worse training and coaching.
For Rondon that is compounded by being at an age where it is more difficult to get back your top level sharpness if you have lost it.
Yannick Carrasco has come back and still looks pretty great, from the two games against Liverpool I've seen him play this season.
There's also Hulk who just won the Brazil league, Paulinho who went straight into the Barcelona first team, Gervinho who did well at Parma, Ighalo who did ok as a reserve at Man u, Kim Min Jae at Fenerbahce.
Witsel was great in his first years after coming back too
Forgot about Witsel. Alex Teixeira plays for Besiktas now.
Teixeira is a pretty bad example considering how high his stock was before heading to China.
Honestly the fact that we got relegated with some of the creative players we had behind him says a lot about him imo. He's a really nice lad, and a hard worker but he's a fraud honestly he couldn't bag behind a till at Tesco
Was brilliant for us.
To be fair he’s at the age we’re you start to decline. I’d have him if we went down to the championship though.
Venezuela's all-time top scorer and looked the business at Zenit and Newcastle. Shame it's not working out for Everton but he's a decent player and even had flashes of brilliance at WBA.
He's defo got a touch if class in him but he just doesnt score enough
According to Jonathan Wilson he was the best* player in the world when at Newcastle
(*best at one specific thing and pretty average at basically everything else)
Are you saying Tony Pulis' WBA was a creative team?
No but some of the pub individuals behind him were brilliant and no matter what a wanker pulis was it doesn't take everything away from their brilliance. That squad had no reason to ever be relegated they were much too good for that. Key aspects just went very very wrong.
£206m under Koeman and Allardyce in a few months is insane.
Big Sam spent 50m just on Tosun and Walcott
And he wonders why no top team will go near him
Hardly Allardyce's fault. Any football club that lets a coach choose their own signings is a badly run football club. It's on Everton in that case not Big Sam
Yeah you definitely need to develop that trust and relationship as you move forward. If your manager has been there for 4-5 years and is going to stay on then I think it’s probably right that they have a big part in transfer strategy.
If you’re bringing in someone like big Sam to firefight then you’re an idiot if you let him dictate who comes in.
I hope your club takes the same advice because Howe is a transfer market terrorist.
gradel comes to mind
It's on him for being so shit with signing players
And yet they (still) have Brands there that is meant to stop this very thing
Yep. I often wonder how Liverpool would have fared had they gotten the players Klopp wanted. He wanted Gotze over Mane and Brandt over Salah.
It's hard to say really because you never know how much better those players could have been with Klopp coaching them. Our style would have definitely been different that's for sure.
How did the board let this happen? This is daylight robbery.
Walsh being a fraud and Moshiri having no idea what FFP is
Money laundering? That's what I'm going with.
And then he wanted to bring Tosun to try and save us. I'm convinced we would have finished 21st if he had come
Both are stealing a living.
To be fair they did bring in over 100 million from sales.
Their 2017/18 transfer spending has to go on record as one of the worst in living memory of any club ever.
140m on Sigurdsson, Keane, Klaasen, Walcott, Tosun.
£30m for Michael Keane is the best of those, and to put that into perspective, he had played 1 year in the top flight in a Burnley low block, and only had one year left on his contract.
Gylfi was good it's just the price was way too much. He also turned out to be a nonce but no one knew that so can't blame them for that bit
He actually still hasn’t been charged yet, otherwise Unnamed player has been good for us
Everton leading the highest expected nonses per minute (NpM) metric
Something to be taken into consideration with Sigurdson is that he is pretty much always fit.
unavailable now though
Yes... But fit
So was klaasen
Klaassen wasn’t good for us at all when he did play
I meant Klaasen was hyped before he came to everton
yeah but he was a bad signing for everton, that’s what they’re saying. klaasen’s a solid player but definitely disappointed in everton, gylfi was a solid starter for years for them
Wouldn't judge him yet since the case hasn't been resolved
and he’s generally been pretty terrible for us in the 5 years we’ve had him outside of 1 or 2 strong spells lol
Add Sandro and Iwobi to that list.
I remember pundits saying they were going to finish ahead of Liverpool on the strength of those transfers.
that summer of 2017 was crazy, they basically signed 5 players for one position.
They had a real thing for technically capable but slow-as-fuck attacking midfielders around that time.
Cant stand the dutch at all personally
Who were they? I can only think of Rooney, Klaassen, and Siggurdson
Vlašić as well, late in the window after they played Hajduk in EL.
What is he up to lately?
Left for Huesca on a free, now loaned out to Getafe where he gets some gametime here and there.
They didn’t learn from their neighbors, nor from Spurs. When you lose your best player you first and foremost replace him with another incredible player instead of lowballing and trying to vaguely improve other areas.
For those wondering, these are the players that money bought (note - all fees from transfermarkt):
Zouma (£7m loan fee)
Gomes (£2m loan fee)
Sidibe (£2m loan fee)
What's worse about the 16/17 and 17/18 seasons is when you kook at how much money we got back.
Not only were they shite but...
Schneiderlin (sold for 2m)
Bolasie (left on a free)
Williams (left on a free)
Gueye (a rare success, sold for 28m)
Sigurdsson (well... we won't be seeing anything back)
Walcott (left on a free)
Tosun (will leave on a free this season)
Sandro (left on a free)
It's just funny at how bad with money we are at this point.
The 18/19 window was probably the best we’ve had but that isn’t really saying much tbh, all those players were decent for us that season and they’ve managed to cement starting 11 spots besides Gomes, we also got Bernard on a free that summer who was also decent in his first season but didn’t really do much afterwards
I can't believe Koeman was so long ago
Everton spent £563m on what exactly?
Richarlison, Keane, Walcott, Iwobi, siggy, klassen, Tosen, Gomes, Picford, mina, digne to name a few. Spent big figures for some bang average players
Lmaooo how we sold em Iwobi. Props to Arsenal
Well we didn’t sell them Walcott.
What do you mean by that? He went to Everton in January for 20+ million pounds.
There are a couple years where I stopped watching football. Didn’t even realize he went to Everton before Southampton.
Lol poor guys getting downvoted for a mistake
/r/Soccer is a fickle bitch
We finally got to make silly money on an average player!
Waiting for their 20M offer for Elneny….
Hey now tbf some of those were good. Richie has been one of our most important players. Pickford is at least a top 10 goalie in the prem. Digne is good, Mina is our best defender when fit. Siggy, let's just say we could use him right now. Otherwise yeahhhhhhhhh......
> Mina is our best defender when fit
And he wasn't so injury prone back then. Sucks his fitness went downhill.
Godfrey seems to looks way better when playing alongside him as well
Sigurdsson has been a colossal waste of money
Absolutely but the team would be in a better position right now if he weren't, you know, a nonce.
Eh. I doubt that actually. His production isnt great and hes so slow. His contribution across 90 minutes outside of the odd goal is really minimal.
Too slow, cant tackle, no forward penetration and panics when pressed. Or.. wait maybe im confusing him with every other member of our squad.
You’re using a lot of “our best”. That doesn’t mean much when you’re a mid-table side and doesn’t justify these ridiculous transfer fees
Of the players I mentioned above the only one I'd say we overlayed for is Siggurdson. Other than that the others have been worth the price (most expensive being Richie but his overall play during his time here has been worth it)
Debatable on the Pickford claim.
Eh he's very solid. He probably won't be leading a team to a champions League but for 25 mil he's really not an overspend tbh.
Sure, but I'd take at least: Alisson, Ederson, Mendy, Lloris, Fabianski, Meslier, Martinez, Ramsdale, De Gea, Schmeichel, all over him. And potentially a few others.
No that's probably fair. My top 10 take is probably off but it more generally fits my 'not an overspend' point.
Yeah he's not really one of the transfers to criticize.
I’d agree with all of those except mendy. Today will be the circlejerk but he hasn’t been good all year and Pickford mostly has.
You’re talking about Mendy at Chelsea?
The keeper who has been most over performing against the mean for most of the season so far? Basically kept Chelsea in loads of games this season, just off the top of my head the Brentford game they won 1-0 and that was almost entirely down to him making 5 or 6 saves.
Yes I’m talking about the mendy at chelsea who has gotten more and more poor over the season, had a howler today and has been off form since the ballon dor controversy. Bet you Kepa gets matches here soon
The only reason Kepa should get a game is if the prem introduces penalty shootouts
He’s still the top ranked goalkeeper in the prem on performances, I don’t think he’s getting dropped any time soon, even after his howler today.
I'm no Mendy fan, but I think he's just on the better end of league average and Pickford the lower. Take the Masuaku goal, it looks bad on Mendy (and to be frank it is bad) because it goes through his hands, but Pickford's not even able to reach that. If I had to do a league ranking it would be something like:
Tier (1): Alisson, Ederson
Tier (2): Martinez, Lloris, De Gea, Fabianski
Tier (3): Schmeichel, Ramsdale (admittedly rising, but I wasn't enamoured with his Sheffield season), Pope = Mendy
Tier (4): Pickford, Foster
Tier (5): Guaita, Krul,
Tier (Fraud because I don't really watch their games and am going off public opinion): Meslier, Jose Sa, Darlow, McCarthy, Sanchez, Dubravka
i'd put Emi in tier 1. Has been absoultely immense for both Aston Villq and Argentina in huge games. He's constantly under pressure and almost always performs. Was a big reason why Argentina won the Copa America and Arsenal won the FA Cup
He's certainly pushing for it, I do have him 3rd overall.
Darlow such a fraud, my man listed him twice
Oh I was thinking I had Dubravka in and edited him in later.
Edit: And fraud refers to me for not having watched them.
I think it’s close either way
How much have they recovered in sales in that time? I’m guessing not much
A bit on Lukaku, Barkley and Keane. Not much elsewhere probably.
Cenk Tosun’s first touch
570 million pounds spent and best position achieved 7th place.
Jesus Christ, what a bunch of incompetents...
It's 9th all of Europe mate. Not in England
Is it? The big 6 all probably spent much more money and had better teams to begin with. So not very weird that 7th is best achieved.
It's the 9th highest in all of Europe over the last 5 years and Liverpool definitely doesn't feature in above them
Pretty sure Everton beat Liverpool's spend in the last 5 years
100 M € for Barcelona I guess. Without Everton, Barcelona would bankrupt sooner
I want to get off Mr. Moshiri's wild ride.
No sign of a long-term plan with those manager appointments either. It's just whoever's available.
So, who was the best performing manager out of those? Silva?
Ok so this is kinda a hot take but yes Silva. Not saying he was great or that he'd be here now but the man got ridiculously unlucky. We sold Gueye in the window before his 2nd season. Gueye was our best midfielder, but this was fine, we'd agreed he could go and we had Gbamin bought in as a replacement. Gbamin, a guy with no prior history of bad injuries, gets 2 season ending injuries in the space of a season. Our other best midfielder at the time, Gomes (no i will not elaborate, Gomes under Silva was absolutely a great player for us) was then also handed a season ending injury by a certain man that cries alot. Team just plummeted after that, but not only injuries, we also had alot of really shitty VAR decisions go against us. The main one I always think of being a penalty against Brighton in a 3-2 loss (after we were 2-0 up), after that he was a dead man walking. There is alot to criticise Silva for, the team had a habbit of collapsing, we never had a striker who could score goals, conceded from set pieces constantly, and our game plan was overly reliant on Richie and Digne. But the man managed to get much better performances given the circumstances than any of these others. Some might say Carlo but I'd argue the totally reinvigorated midfield of Doucoure and Allan was much more important than his tactical set up.
Gomes was shit. Him getting injured did wonders for his reputation
Every time I’ve seen Gomes this season he’s actually looked pretty decent off the bench, both against Burnley and Huddersfield.
That's not true, he put in some very classy games when we dominated. He was imperious Vs West ham under silva.
But he does struggle when we don't set out to dominate possession as he is just not very good at winning the ball bank and too slow to counter
Best out of the bunch.
Is he? Once again, if Everton let's coaches pick their own transfers than that is 100% on Everton. No serious football club does that, a coach simply isn't qualified to do that
*happy Barca noises*
We're dead already just leave us be 😞
only good thing is we aren’t far away from those ridiculous prices falling off and not mattering for ffp, but can’t exactly trust the board to spend big again off their track record
As Sporting CP fan I'm just happy Everton gave up Matheus Nunes in pre-season.
Poor man's Manchester United.
Tbf, ~£500m spent by Everton isn't worth the same as ~£500 spent by a top 4 club. Yes their scouting etc could be better, but you can't pretend that they'd be able to attract the same players that Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, United or even Arsenal and Tottenham could with the same money
£500m spent on average players is terrible even if you’re not a top club. If their scouting team focused on younger players with potential, they they could both become better as well as earn that money back.
Agree. Marcel Brands is stealing a living as Sporting Director
Brands wasn't our director for the worst of these transfers tho. Our transfers actually got better once he took over.
Thing is Everton shouldn't be going for the top players who are already affirmed. They should be going for promising players who want playing time. Because that's what a team like Everton can offer over the top 5 teams.
Having your sometime captain arrested for alleged paedophilia wasn't the best start to this season either
This hurts my heart
Get to a legendary manager and THEN curb your spending lol. Let’s have some numptys spend 500 million and then ancelotti can have 65 lol
They spent more than us
I assume wages don't factor into anything anymore?
Well part of the reason our wage bill is so high is because the players we bought actually worked out. They got bonuses and new contracts with significant pay rises. They didn't join the club on such high wages
Yeah but you can’t really expect a mid table teams money to be worth as much as a team of Liverpool’s caliber.
kloop and Liverpool’s size alone (even pre 2015) gives them way more pull than Everton
This is about transfer fees not wages and agent fees
Point is you can’t just ignore wages, which are crucial as well
If they were willing to make the transfers this much then they probably got rinsed by agents too
Everyone's spent more than us lol
Koeman/Allardyce: Marks & Spencers "Collection"
Silva:/Ancelotti: Tesco Finest
Happy Chrissy Everton
Everton are fucking hilarious , spunk millions upon millions every year to stay exactly as shite as they were before.
and benitez is apparently underperforming lol. the mindsets shit in the team. money won't fix that.
If Benitez is your manager, it’s pretty much guaranteed the ownership is shit and won’t spend much
Wish we had thier spending power.
206m lol who did they buy
Benitez could do good, just needs time.
Worst bang for the buck ever
I know it's not easy and will take time, but wouldn't it be better to invest that amount in your academy and go the BVB route. Market yourself to prominent young talents even if you have to sell them later. Right now Everton seems to only get the big names that are way past it or players that doesn't cut it for the top teams. Granted they won't have the CL/EL appeal that clubs like BVB and Portuguese big3 can offer, but imo it will still be better than spending aimlessly for one good year a decade.
If your plan is to flip the club in a few years to the next Oil gulf state a few years down the road, you don't spend money on unnecessary things like players. Who needs them anyways in a football club?
Rafa has 500+ mil players, why doesn't he win the UCL.