A large chunk of Serena haters are just amourshipping FAN haters. And as huge amourshipper… A lot of it is warranted.

As a fellow amourshipper, this

same here lmao dunno why some of our fellow amourshippers are so toxic

Because their pedophiles, same for you, you spend your time fantasizing about two 10 year olds

love does not equal lust, I hope you understand

And? It’s still creepy as fuck to spend all your time thinking about 10 years olds in love

do you think anyone who ships spends their every waking hour thinking about it? I think you’re the weirdo ‘round here, bucko

Or you just desperate to normalize fantasizing about 2 10 year olds love lives. And yes I have seen social media accounts dedicated to different Pokémon shippings that post like every hour that the owner is awake, and either way THEIR 10. Would you be ok with doing it over real 10 year olds? Well you probably would but still

no! i wouldn’t be ok with that because they’re real people! do you think every single script writer across every show in existence is a pedophile the moment they write about two kids falling in love? young love is normal, get over it Also, at what point does your porn addiction get so bad that you confuse romantic relationships and sexual relationships?

I respect your honesty in a sense😂

Forgive me for the dumb question, but why is it warranted?

The amourshipping community back then was really toxic

How come?

The whole shipping wars and people trashing Serena, hurts to say a couple years ago I was toxic about it too.

Like i need context as to what happened to this issue

I honestly don't know, back then I was doing my own thing and as far as I was concerned we got bullied into obscurity

Response: The big shipping war these positive shippers are referring to actually heated up around 2016. Reddit became embroiled in a hard- set conflict. Most of it was between pokeshippers and amourshippers, although other communities were involved. In the end, the amourshippers ‘won’ the war, with entire communities being hijacked and abandoned on this platform. This was in no small part to opinion articles published proclaiming the ship as canon or posts from r/amourshipping attempting to convince fans of its canon status (Both characters sharing the same feelings). There were also posts made dumping on other ships. Mods attempted to halt toxic behavior around 2020, but it did very little. You can also find positive amourshippers attempting to make a change years ago through posts on this very sub, and yet it was mostly ignored. Many of them are more chill now, but Reddit has become known as “The X & Y Worship Club” in other communities due to representation being heavily biased and those posts never being taken down. You’ll have to find the good and the bad.

cheers, I’ll drink to that

Well it this was 2016-2021 then yeah the hatred against that fanbase was deserved but it isn't the case nowadays besides a few copelords the amour fandom has definitely been quiet

Ngl, everybody loved Alain up until he beat Ash in the Kalos League which divided the whole fanbase, some think it was deserved because his MCX beat 10 megas in a row prior to this battle and the other faction consists of either those who think Ash was in his peak this season and had every reason to win as well as the fact they had to bust out a new evolution concept for Greninja in order to do so. For Leon I believe, it's mostly because the fans want Cynthia to be Number 1 instead and he supposedly lied about being undefeated or something that I've been seeing recently in the Youtube Fandom. Honestly I would be fine either way. As for Serena, she didn't have much going for her except for her crush on Ash and the showcases. Many people in the fandom feel like she got way too much popularity for her own good, heck I'm pretty sure she surpassed Ash and Pikachu in a Japanese Vote Poll or something. The ship wars also add to her hate.

Spot on analysis. For Leon too people hated the fact that he swept through people way too easily even Diantha. Especially Diantha actually. We get that he's undefeated but they didn't have to disrespect her like that. She didn't even get swept by Charizard either it was rillaboom. Also, the first reason people started to hate Leon was that his ace was a charizard, a pokemon fans see a lot. I remember people being so annoyed when he was revealed in the Gen 8 games.

To be fair, Diantha getting swept without any fanfare is pretty game-accurate.

To be fair, game difficulty is not a good justification or excuse for anime writers' bad execution. Leon in the game is also not difficult to beat, but he is no 1 lore-wise in anime. If anime is just game replication, then I could just play something like PWT

Yeah no that’s totally fair, I just couldn’t resist the opportunity to get in a snipe at Diantha. :p

He also disrespected Alain terribly by 2 shotting his Mega Charizard X with his base form Charizard, and one shotting Malamar with Charizard. At least Rillaboom Vs Chesnaught was a decent battle, but it doesn't help that Leon and Alain's battle was crammed into the opening episode of the tournament. Alain had such a good character arc, especially if you watched the mega evolution specials, and it went to shit here

Alain and Serena are pretty much accurate. Leon is much more complex than you think. Leon is disliked by many for several reasons. His game self came first and it laid a very bad foundation. People got sick of hearing about Leon being the “Unbeatable Champion” with the “Unbeatable Charizard” throughout Sword and Shield, leaving a bad taste in many people’s mouths, which the anime decided to drag out over the course of three years. Leon also pretty much did most of the villain storyline of Sword and Shield, resulting in the Villain storyline in Sword and Shield being rushed and forced and it frustrated many that there was a subplot going on that they couldn’t take part in during the games. The anime also amplified Leon’s worst traits from the games, as in the traits that people criticised about his character, and did it in the worst way. The games don’t put Leon above other champions and don’t throw previously established strong characters at him just to prop him up. Same with the Twilight Wings shorts. We hear stories about how Leon is powerful and we see examples of how he is powerful(taking down rampaging Dynamax Pokémon on the news during the games and him fighting Galar’s gym leaders in Twilight Wings). The anime started Leon off by bringing back Lance just so he can lose to Leon, the final member of the Elite 4 in the original games and the Champion of the Johto games was brought back and beaten just to prop Leon up. But Leon really started to frustrate people during the Masters 8 arc. Alain was considered one of the most powerful trainers in the anime and is the face of one of Ash’s most infamous league loses. The anime brought him back just so Leon could easily defeat him and makes him look weak, all while Alain never got to interact with or fight Ash again, further proving he was brought back just to prop Leon up. Leon vs Diantha made things even worse by having Leon sweep most of her team with Rillaboom and humiliate her. Let me put this into perspective, Diantha was considered one of the easiest champions in the games and was among the least liked, yet her being humiliated and defeated so easily seriously angered people at how her character was treated just to prop Leon up. Previous characters being brought back just to lose to the new guy in order to prop him up. Champions being brought back just to be used as a stepping stone instead of a major victory. That is why Leon is disliked by so many. If Ash had lost to him, he would go down as the most hated champion and character in the entire franchise. It would be worse than Tobias, because Tobias didn’t have previously established strong characters thrown at him just so he can be propped up.

>Also for the number one trainer from the world championship, Leon just poped out of nowhere and that was frustrating specially when he beat Lance first thing. > >At least they could've "frabricated" old memories of Ash seeing him on TV in the past and that would've been fine

Pokemon Journeys for me was my least watched and least favorite anime arc for Ash... i watched more Kanto and Kalos Pokemon Anime than Journeys. Go is also extremely biased and half love and hate him (i'm on the hate side)

Agree with the Serena thing. At her core, she’s not really a bad character. It’s the fact that she’s put on a ridiculously high pedestal in the fandom that borders “waifu culture” and treated as if Pokémon revolves around her. Not really helped by the unnecessary amounts of petitions for her return and the entitlement that she is obligated to be Ash’s love interest despite romance clearly never being the end goal of the anime. That’s probably what has soured her reception in the anime in recent years.

That's like saying dawn/may only had contests going for them, like I don't see the problem with a companion's arc focusing on their goal?

Agree

But Dawn and May had an actual personality outside of contests. Just doing showcases isn't really a personality trait; when you take that away and the fact that she kissed Ash, she's not memorable.

What personality outside of contests did dawn/may have that serena didn't?

>Many people in the fandom feel like she got way too much popularity for her own good, So basically a pokegirl version of Charizard?

Why do people always say serena didn't have anything other than liking ash She's literally the female companion whose character development surpasses all others by light years. Tf is up with that

She's not the best developed Pokégirl, she's on the same level as all of them. Saying she's "lightyears ahead" is totally reaching. She went from not knowing what she wanted to all of a sudden needing to become the next Kalos Queen in like 20 episodes. She lost at first and was super over dramatic about it. Honestly, it's really nothing to write home about. Jessie was just as good as she was if not better at Pokémon showcases, but God forbid the villain excels at something, especially compared to one of the main characters. I think some people hate her because her fans are annoying. They like putting other characters down to show how great Serena is. It's awful sportsmanship really.

> She's not the best developed Pokégirl, she's on the same level as all of them. Saying she's "lightyears ahead" is totally reaching. This is, in no way, an objective statement, in fact, it's extremely biased. I respect your opinion if you don't think she's the best character, but you cannot make these blanket statements to nullify everyone else's opinions that she is the best character. I do not think Jessie was nearly as good of a character as Serena. She did not have nearly the same backstory of doing things that are extremely relatable to young people in real life, especially college students and college graduates, trying to find their goal in life, and standing up to their parents when they disagree with what they want to do in life. In my opinion, she is lightyears better than any other character in the anime, with the exception of Dawn. You don't need to agree with me, but you have to respect it and stop trying to nullify it with blanket statements that are biased.

The other guy is the one who is extremely biased and said that Serena is lightyears ahead of the rest, nullifying other opinions.

Not disputing that, but calling it "totally reaching" is also biased. Two wrongs don't make a right, the only people who are right are the ones who won't tell others that they are wrong for having opinions that disagree with theirs.

I didn't compare Jessie to Serena in terms of characterization, I compared her in terms of Pokémon showcases. But in any case I also don't agree that Jessie isn't as good of a character as Serena. Jessie has a great backstory which is very much relatable to plenty of people who did not grow up in stable homes. And what makes her even more rich as a character is that she portrays a villain yet has plenty of moments where her good heart speaks louder than her "evil" side. I'm not nullifying anyone's opinions, this is a discussion board, so I will have opinions of my own (duh). People will have theirs, all is good. Relax.

Your entire first two paragraphs was nullifying the opinion whether you believe it not. There's a difference between saying what you believe and saying that it's "reaching" to say she's lightyears better than other characters, or that it's "really nothing to write home about," or that "God forbid the villain excels at something." These statements are trying to ridicule others' opinions rather than just stating your own. In my opinion, Jessie is actually one of the worst characters in the entire anime. All of Team Rocket are really, in my opinion, because they were totally unnecessary and added nothing for me in my two favorite seasons in the anime, XY and Diamond and Pearl. I 100% would enjoy both seasons much, much more if Team Rocket did not exist. There was enough conflict in both seasons without needing Team Rocket, and all they did was take up screen time that would've been put to much better use. This is totally contrary to your statement that "God forbid the villain excels at something." Actually, for me, we are talking about the best character in the anime compared to the worst character in the anime, not just villain vs. protagonist. That's why your statements are trying to nullify others' opinions.

Again, this is a discussion board, not a court hearing. I don't feel the need to sprinkle in "in my opinion" everywhere, because it is implied that my posts are merely my opinion. You can downvote it if you disgree with my opinion, it what it's there for. "God forbid the villain excels at something" was actually a dig at the writers and not to the commenter before me. It's the writers that prevent her from exceling in Pokémon showcases. Lastly, I'm not talking about best character nor worst character in the anime, I think you might have lost your train of thought there. We're talking about characters who get unfair hate.

There is a difference between "in my opinion, Serena is not a great character" and "in my opinion, people shouldn't like Serena as much as they do." This isn't a court hearing, so you won't be convicted based on your language, however, others will interpret your language based on how you word it, and react accordingly. I didn't lose my train of thought, you mentioned Jessie as essentially someone who deserved as much success as Serena, and I provided the reason as to why I disagree. I think Jessie is a terrible character and has no place in the anime, so I don't think she deserves success at all. It has nothing to do with her being a villain, there are plenty of villains I like in the anime as characters, and plenty of protagonists I dislike in the anime as characters.

They hate her for having a crush, which is understandble since shippers can be annoying but they don't seperate that from what's being presented in the show.

People don't hate her for having a crush, if anything that's what makes her super relatable. But I can see that it might annoy some people how much her life, thoughts and decisions revolve around that crush (I'm not one of them. I'm a Pokéshipper but I think her crush is cute and makes sense.)

If she isn’t ship bait with Ash, I doubt most of people would overhyped her development as “surpasses other in light years”. She maybe top 3 in development, but light years ahead? Shippers make her like pinnacle of Pokémon girl because her crush on Ash, not her development.

I never loved Alain. I always thought he was a Gary Stue type of character. The fact that he didn’t actually want to be champion and took Ashs title from him was just the icing on the cake. But it also was disrespectful how he was handled in journeys.

Ash can’t always win. Lets be fr though, he wouldn’t be seen as powerful if he didn’t beat Ash Greninja.

Leon canonically being the best trainer around already rubbed me the wrong way, the thing that REALLY did it for me was when he pointed out that Ash was the first trainer to ever knock out half of his team I’m sorry, WHAT?! You’re telling me in this guy’s ENTIRE Pokémon career, which no doubt has been going on for at least a decade, and who’s a champion mind you, meaning he should have been challenged my multiple of champion level contenders, plus the Elite Four, every Gym Leader in Galar at LEAST, and so many other trainers who would have to be incredibly strong. Even when he started off and didn’t even have 6 Pokémon in his party. You’re telling me not ONE person managed to get him down to under half of his party in a single battle? Being undefeated is one thing, but that’s a ridiculous amount of power and skill that I wouldn’t even want from Cynthia.

Tracey. I get that back in the day fans hated him for being a Brock replacement. But I genuinely don't get what's supposed to be so annoying about him or his personality in specific. He's just a good, competent guy, not to mention rather mellow in personality. He doesn't even have any particular annoying quirks that other characters have. Iris is condescending, Cilan is constantly overexcited and overdramatic, Max is a know-it-all, Bonnie is bossy, Kanto Misty is a mixed bag of supportive and bashing towards Ash, not to mention vain, Paul is abusive towards his Pokemon, and so on and so forth. I've even seen people complain about Brock's obsession with women and flirting, which I don't exactly support, but can understand as an argument against him. But Tracey - quite literally - did nothing wrong. Unless you consider him too boring, I guess.

I agree. Tracey is the typical "good guy" who gets tossed aside for being considered "boring" - but in real life a guy like him is quite the person you can rely on. I'm super glad they brought him back in the last episode, with lines (lol) and his Pokémon and all. Who would've guessed he would be the last travelling companion Ash would intereact with. I feel like the world is right again.

>I get that back in the day fans hated him for being a Brock replacement. But I genuinely don't get what's supposed to be so annoying about him or his personality in specific. He wasn't annoying, just forgettable and bland. >But Tracey - quite literally - did nothing wrong. Unless you consider him too boring, I guess. That's it. Every character you listed before at least has a quirk or a small detail to help them stand out. His design looks like an extra and his quirk was that he liked to sketch. I'd equate him to Todd Snap, an okay character, but really not deserving of more than 2 episodes.

Maybe. Still, I don't understand hating on Tracey when Iris, Cilan and Goh are around, lol. No, I'm not too fond of those three, so sue me. Their typical behaviour is much more irritating to me than anything Tracey ever did.

I had the same thoughts; I wrote my reply after writing my own post about him.

The only time I understood hate for Gary was the scyter episode

Alain, like Seriously just because he beat Ash?

I don’t hate Alain, but I did roll my eyes a lot because they went so hard in making him out to be this power fantasy character who could never lose (excluding fights against primals and a member of the Elite Four). From the design to the cold and aloof personality, he was very much a product of the times in shounen anime, which unfortunately made him stick out like a sore thumb in the general environment of the Pokemon anime. I also say this as a Charizard shill, but Zard X being his ace was the icing on the cake because it just read as “my edgy gen 1 cash cow is gonna steamroll the entire show”

They made this guy never lose except for the times he lost 😂😂😂😂

To the general power level of average to strong trainers in XY, he was never gonna lose. His only losses were special cases of opponents beyond the scope of what Ash was contending with

And people get mad about that but at least he was fleshed out and proved he was strong. Tobias came in for one battle was given legendaries for no reason at all. Ash had no chance of beating him either. Ash was way closer to beating Alain than Tobias and yet everyone sings Tobias's praise and begged for him to be back and give him Alain's spot in the Masters 8. Give me Alain over Tobias 1000 times out of 1000.

Who is “everyone” 👀

I think people would have rather seen Tobias be humiliated by Leon than Alain. At least that way we can say Leon can take out Legendary Pokémon, he would also be the only person in the anime who has defeated Tobias.

Fleshed out? Does that really count as fleshed out? He just got a lot of battles. He’s as much of a nobody as Cameron was. That’s not an issue though. Just a double standard.

I agree with this. All he did was get back to back battles with a little side story of him collecting the energy for battles. Then chespie gets sick and he battles even more. Wouldn't say he was fleshed out.

Did you not watch XYZ or are you trolling lol

y’all mad at Alain for beating Ash but not Cameron. that boy couldn’t even get his Trainer “career” straight. showed up to the league without a full team and still beat Ash. THAT pissed me off

Everyone is mad at Cameron, he is one of the most hated Characters lol

y’all mad at Alain for beating Ash but not Cameron. that boy couldn’t even get his Trainer “career” straight. showed up to the league without a full team and still beat Ash. THAT pissed me off

y’all mad at Alain for beating Ash but not Cameron. that boy couldn’t even get his Trainer “career” straight. showed up to the league without a full team and still beat Ash. THAT pissed me off

y’all mad at Alain for beating Ash but not Cameron. that boy couldn’t even get his Trainer “career” straight. showed up to the league without a full team and still beat Ash. THAT pissed me off

y’all mad at Alain for beating Ash but not Cameron. that boy couldn’t even get his Trainer “career” straight. showed up to the league without a full team and still beat Ash. THAT pissed me off

I think only a few people hate Serena, what almost every Serena hater hates actually is her fans

This. A good chunk of the Serena hate I've seen is directed towards those who are fans of hers. I get it that but at the same time think it's a bit unwarranted. Like yes, sometimes fans can be annoying, Serena is my favorite and I've shook my head at my fellow Serena fans and AmourShippers but always felt the product shouldn't suffer because of the consumer since the product isn't making the consumer doing anything on top of knowing every product has consumers who make the whole thing look bad when there's nothing wrong with it.

Serena's hate comes from how extreme AmourShippers can be but that'd be blissfully or willfully ignoring that it's only like 10-20% of the whole community who are loud and toxic and other PokeGirls and their ships are really no better since all ships have the same issues and have had the same issues for ages. ​ Alain's hate comes from people STILL being mad that he beat Ash in the Kalos League which even if Ash deserves that win WAY more than Alain did, it doesn't negate the fact that unlike Ritchie, Harrison, Tyson, Tobias (especially Tobias), and Cameron, Alain actually had a character and story that developed him and didn't exist solely to boot Ash from the League. ​ Leon..... I've got nothing, I guess people hated his title of 'Unbeatable Champion' had the anime portray him as this invincible trainer that beat established powerful trainers and made them look like jokes which leaves a bad impression on the audience.

I'm pretty sure Serena and Leon are actually incredibly popular.

I would say they're controversial. They have both, many fans but also many haters.

Max. His annoying and know-it-all tendencies are blown out of proportion. Most of his hate comes from that one scene where he teases Ash for losing the Johto League. Despite the fact that he only did that in one episode. Even his teasing of May’s training skills is just typical sibling bickering, since May equally dishes out her fair share as well. People always forget that Max’s negative traits are gone by the time BF rolls around and that he went through a legitimate character arc. He is also shown to admire Ash outside of that one Johto League reference.

What’s hilarious is that most Anipoké fans have similar levels of condescension.

I haven't seen AG so I can't comment much on Max, but I watched the Jirachi movie and it's adorable. Max is really cute in it - I cannot see myself hating him once I get to AG.

I agree; I had the same thoughts when I posted before reading your comment.

My wife and I got back into Pokémon through Journeys / Sword and Shield era TCG and we love Leon. We think he's awesome. He's likeable and is the "alpha" needed for the hero to strive to overcome. I'm not as familiar with the history of the Master's 8, but Leon's first battle in the tournament should have been mindbogglingly dominant. From a story perspective the "ace" Ash has up his sleave is that him and his buddy have travelled and battled for literally 25 years and their connection was untouchable. I love the anime for that. It was beautiful. Leon was finally confronted with a connection deeper than his own. Pikachu is the star of the franchise and he's Ash's best buddy.

Iris and Goh. In Iris' case, I can understand her personality isn't everyone's cup-of-tea, but she became something of a boogeyman during the BW era and could seemingly do nothing right in the fans' eyes. I've liked her from the start, so I admit to being biased, but having recently rewatched parts of BW I can say with confidence a lot of the dislike was overblown. Almost as if people were projecting their frustrations with BW in general on to her rather than criticising anything she did. As for Goh... oof, he was doomed from the get-go. Accused of taking Ash's "spotlight" and of being psychopathic because he apparently treated Pokemon like objects. It got so bad forums had to stickie PSA's telling people to stop because some of the language was getting out of hand. All that fuss over someone who otherwise had a perfectly reasonable character arc and fun chemistry with Ash.

Tbh i find goh a bit annoying

I like Goh and he embodies the "gotta catch 'em all" phrase, which has been the slogan of the franchise since the 90's - so it's funny someone with this goal showed up so late into the game. But on the other hand I cannot see what makes him any different from the villain in Pokémon The Movie 2000 - the guy who collects legendary Pokémon. Goh has the same goal (worse actually, since he wants to collect all 1000-something Pokémon), but when he does it, it's OK? You cannot raise 1000 living beings with the care and attention they need.

It's not the same thing. The collector wanted the bird trio purely out of vanity and was going to put them on display regardless of their will. Whereas Goh actually uses some of the Pokemon he catches while sending the others to a biome tailored to their needs with staff on hand to feed them. Putting aside the practicality of owning every Pokemon, Goh wasn't going around in a big airship bombing places while capturing Pokemon in electrofied cages. He was just chucking balls at things aka doing what Pokemon trainers are encouraged to do. It's different levels of selfishness. While you can argue Goh's goal was greedy, he has enough morals to know when to let a Pokemon go. The collector, on the other hand, didn't give a damn about the impact of his actions on the world.

That makes sense. I do think there could've been more of an effort to explain how exactly is it the Goh will be there for all his Pokémon. I thought it was really counter intuitive when he caught all different Pokémon from the same evolutionary line, like if you catch a Weedle, a Kakuna and a Beedrill, you'll eventually end up with 3 Beedrill. Unless you force you Pokémon to not evolve, which just sounds cruel, like not feeding your children with the right nutrients so they can grow strong and healthy. So yeah, I mean, I feel like Goh is obviously a good guy, but he has potential to grow up into a villain 😅

My fiancé who got into Pokémon after we met and loves the original show and is already halfway through johto saga saw an episode of black and white and also hated Iris without any knowledge of what fans think of her or black and white at all so I don’t think that’s necessarily true, you just have an unpopular opinion by liking her and theirs nothing wrong with that

Tracey and Goh

You don’t understand the goh hate? Dude got 80% of the episodes in journeys which was the goodbye to ash and you don’t understand the hate?

Isn’t that more of an issue with the writers and less with the character and his personality tho..

If you want to get into the character then we have him catching Pokémon when other people do all the work see golurk and sucine or saying he doesn’t like battling then magically can fight and beat anyone despite ash training his mons more than he does

I think these three are just popular enough that there is bound to be hate. Alain beating ash Amourshipping And Leon being the placed number 1

I think they all get a lot of unnecessary hate, but I understand the basic reasons as to why people don't like them. Serena gets hated because of shipping drama, Leon gets hated on for being "OP" and because people wanted Cynthia to be top tier in the verse, and Alain gets hate for winning the Kalos League over Ash and betraying him for Team Flare. Serena has the least valid reason to be hated though, imo.

I wouldn't say I hate Serena I just don't find her interesting and think she is one of the least interesting Pokemon companions IMO I don't care about Ships either so Serena liking Ash means nothing to me I think part of the reason is cause I didn't like Pokemon Showcases in the anime and was more interested in Ashes battles ​ I don't mind Leon and quite like Alain and think he got done dirty in journys

Ritchie

Alan because he " stole " Ash win in the Kalos league ( something that he even didn't want to compete in the first place) Serena for shipping reasons, reagardless of how good her character is the reason that she got so popular is because she liked Ash . Leon....Has a Charizard as ace.

Iris - Best Wishes is far from my favorite anime series, but I often found the hate towards her to be overblown. The "you're such a kid" shtick can be a bit much at times (though there is a certain irony to it because the show often shows her being just as much a "kid" as Ash is), but I don't think she was ever more condescending to Ash than Misty was. Goh - I just don't get why people hate this guy so much. He knows what his goal is and he works towards it, not to mention he has such a great dynamic with Ash.

I kinda get the hate for serena , mostly because the anipoke community won’t shut up about her

Leon. I never watched journeys, so I don’t know how the anime handles his character. Plus, I have some idea why the other two caught hate back then. For Serena it stems back to the dark underbelly of shipping in the community, as a lot of the heat came from people who either hated Amour itself or the toxic fans of Amour. Alain, on the other hand caught hate because of the league, which would have been petty on its own, but the combination of the past leagues with Tobias and Cameron, as well the hype surrounding Ash this season, he was just the straw that broke the camel’s back for some people.

Goh I genuinely liked his character cause he felt like a walking version of the player

Agree as much as I disliked JN I like what go brings to the table

For me. although alot of people hate this but I thought it was cool how goh caught suiscune.

Tracy and Cilan.

Y da fuck do people hate serena

She’s just overrated because of Amourshipping

But amourshipping is justified tho

Because her fans trash other characters to make her look good.

Uff who does that

Alain and Leon

Leon. Some of yall expect the games and anime to follow the exact same logic.

Tracey and by extension Max. The latter I comprehend people's view due to Max being a little kid and very immature sometimes; but I think his dislike is overblown. Tracey I don't think has any negative traits. Maybe that's the issue many have with him; it's said it's better that something is either loved or hated rather than just so-so when creating something. I could also name a few "Character of the Days"; but I think that boils down to personal preference on how people enjoy the anime.

I get the hate for Alain, but not for Serena or Leon

The only reason I slightly dislike Leon is his style. Like purple hair a cape, and… a soccer uniform?

I really like Leon, and I don't think he'd deserve nearly the criticism he gets if Masters 8 hadn't been so badly mishandled. Sadly, he was hated on long before that. Masters 8 was just ammunition, but he was handled pretty well for most of the series (and the final battle).

*chooses my favorite 3* wHy Do YoU gUyS hAtE tHeM lol /s

I think there is too much hate for Leon, I do agree that he was not always portrayed the best in the Anime. I think they could have shown more respect to the other M8 trainers when they faced Leon. But he did earn his way up to monarch and must be strong to have kept the title ( until Ash beat him of course.) I think the other thing that peeves people is how Leon treated Ash more like a little brother than Hop. I think they should have shown more of Hop and Leon's relationship but we do not know their relationship that well in the anime because it was never really shown in Journeys. I appreciate how they show that Leon has flaws, such as his failure to capture Eternatus, his horrible sense of direction, etc. I admit he is cocky, but I think it is also part of the "act" like what a professional sports player would do. I mean he earned the title and might as well have fun with it. I liked how he saw the potential of Ash and accepted his challenge to battle at the beginning of Journeys, he could have easily said no and degraded Ash, but he didn't. Instead of putting Ash down, he helps him to grow in different ways throughout the series, directly and indirectly. I can not speak to the game version of Leon because I haven't played Sword and Shield.

Goh and Cilan. We misused the character of Goh, but it does not prevent him from forming an excellent duo with Ash. As for Cilan, he has always been formidable in his personality and his gimmick which manages to renew itself. Frankly, one of Ash's best companions.

How do people even hate Leon?

honestly, Alain and Serena, they're really good characters in their own way and have loads of fans, as well as haters

I don’t get Leon hate, like yeah the master’s 8 were kinda done dirty with short battles against him, but that was the anime truly showing us the pure power Leon has, proving he is the STRONGEST trainer. In the games he was annoying because that was his only character trait besides getting lost, and everyone was swooning over him being undefeated constantly. In the anime they used action over words, and had him defeat characters we know are extremely powerful, thus proving himself without needing another season to do so. I think Leon was one of the best parts of the show, because it wasn’t about galar, it was everything, which gave less time to develop galar characters like hop, Leon, and Sonia. Not related, but I really wanted mr.Fish to use fishous rend and do an ungodly amount of damage.

Alain not are in my favorites, but I don't understand his hate. Lionel are a good character in the anipoke, maybe are because "He was never defeated by more than two pokemon" and Ash beat he

*Leon

All I can say is I just don’t like Serena The fanbase surrounding her is trash And she is just not an interesting character who’s only liked by fans because she likes ash And it got even worse in journeys with the “Serena returns?!?!?!😱” stuff because people couldn’t stop talking about her

Iris is awesome and behaved exactly like Misty without the giant hammer in bw but is more hated

Not really. I watched like 8 episodes of BW and was already pretty tired of Iris calling Ash a kid all the time. Misty called Ash out on his stupidity, but that was coherent, since Ash was just starting out and did in fact do stupid mistakes which put his Pokémon in danger. She was also super kind and supportive to him over the course of time, and always cheered for him. Iris had no real reason to keep calling Ash a kid 3x per every. Single. Episode. But I am happy JN put her in a better light.

God, the vitriol towards her back in the BW days was toxic and unnecessary glad the fandom did the 180 on her in JN

Well that was mostly because Iris became a Champion in Journeys. If she didn't get such a glow up, I guarantee people would have still have her as their least favourite female companion. My issue with Iris is that her being a Gym Leader in the games, as well as a Champion, was never used in the anime properly. She just screams wasted potential. If Iris wasn't a Champion in the games, her becoming a Champion would of feel like it came out no where. It felt like the writers said "Sorry we ruin Iris in BW, but we're going to fix it now". At least she got redemption in Journeys, can't say the same about Chloe.

Leon

Pikala, i just don’t pika understand

I guess saying pika after saying anything is annoying

All of them. Except for ones that are one offs, or obvious hate sinks, like Damien and Gengar's old trainer, of course.

Chloe. She's a nice girl who just isn't into Pokémon. I think it's super realistic. We have pets in our world and not everyone is obsessed with pets. I don't know why Chloe should be obsessed with Pokémon.

I know he's new, but Roy. He's such a wholesome boi

I barely see anything hating Roy

I’ve never understood the hatred for Max. Kid’s got spunk, sass and intelligence. He’ll make a fine successor to his father, Norman. Still, many people just think he’s annoying. The hatred towards Leon, I’ll never understand, no matter how matter how much you explain it. Serena? Uh… I always hated when people attacked her, but I understood it. Girl eventually got some proper development outside of Ash. Glad she did.

But Serena always had proper development outside Ash in the XY series

Serena hatred is down to the Misty shippers; Leon is from Britain, remember they over exaggerate anything/downplay anything humiliating; as for Alain, he bullshited his way to victory against Ash,

Cilan and Iris. Those 2 are in the black and white anime, which is extremely hated (i think it's a great anime, and the only pokemon series I watched from day 1 of its dub release) Cilan is treated as a lesser Brock and Iris an inferior Misty. Yet, honestly, I disagree. Cilan and Brock are amazing, and both deserve praise for their originality, creativity, and Cilan's Pokemon Evaluations was actually fun. Much better than Clemonts Science experiments. Iris, is basically Misty but better. She has a fear that she has to deal with directly and manages to work with it better than Misty. Plus, she becomes a champion. What about Misty, just a low level Gym leader who is swept away and is not even a threat at all.

Misty's goal was never to be a champion, she wants to be the best Water Pokémon specialist and have the best gym. She's not low-level at all, compare the size of her gym in OS to it in SM. Plus she beat the World Champion in a 1:1, so she's clearly not weak. No need to be such a hater with weak arguments.

Agree

Serena is loved though

loved by a select group and hated by a select group. Different communities see different sides of the coin, for example being in a community that likes Misty you might see alot of Serena hate; if you're in a community that actively likes Serena, similar company, or XY in general you'll probably not see that much of it. It's a matter of perspective. Alot of the hate stems from her being kind of shoved in to be a romantic push for Ash that didn't work very well and split the fandom like oil and water.

In a community that likes Serena, you won't see a lot of Misty hate though? That's what always bothers me about these complaints. They say Serena fans love talking shit about others but I honestly haven't seen anybody do that here?

once again, it's about perspective. Some Serena communities will openly trash other communities, and some don't.

Maybe, but the communities I've been a part of don't talk shit about others. Especially the amour subreddit is full of level headed people.

Serena hate is just ridiculous

And braindead

Chloe. I'll grant she didn't get enough screentime, but I found her lack of direction somewhat charming and relatable, and the resolution to her Eevee plotline made sense in that context. You have to remember she's very young, and she doesn't need to have everything figured out right now. Not every character can be an Ash or Dawn that knows exactly what they want from a very young age.

I think she developed really well in the first half or so. Her screentime started becoming less consistent again afterward, but I don't think her entire arc was mishandled.

Alain was a boring rival. He wasn’t impactful and never really challenged Ash the way that Gary/Paul did. Sure Ash wanted to beat him but his motive for getting stronger was always for Greninja, whereas in Sinnoh for example a lot of Ash’s motive was to beat Paul. Serena doesn’t get the amount of hate you think she does. Sure some people dislike her - she’s underdeveloped, she’s very self doubting, her motives mostly being about Ash were frustrating but she has a lot more people who love her than hate. She benefitted from her Journeys return a lot. Also Armourshipping made her instantly dislikable. That’s a stan culture thing though. It makes you dislike the subjects when the stans are so obsessively annoying like Armourshippers are. Never saw anything overly negative towards Leon tbh.

>Alain was a boring rival. He wasn’t impactful and never really challenged Ash the way that Gary/Paul did. Sure Ash wanted to beat him but his motive for getting stronger was always for Greninja, whereas in Sinnoh for example a lot of Ash’s motive was to beat Paul. I dunno, but to me Alain is more of a second protagonist like Goh/Dawn rather than a rival like Gary/Paul. I think the main point of the Alain/Sawyer vs Ash rivalry is that Ash is the foil and the rival to beat. With Sawyer he wants to surpass his Idol at his very best and with Alain he wants to gather mega evolution energy from Ash-Greninja to save Chespie and find the thrill of battle again >Never saw anything overly negative towards Leon tbh. Go to r/pokemon their hatred for gen 8 is rather comical lol

leon and Alan get hated on?!!?!!?

Leon gets hate for how JN's portrayed him as this invincible trainer which was evident in the M8 when he demolished Alain who was #6 of the M8 (above Iris who could give Cynthia a decent fight) and was established to be pretty powerful given he could 1v1 and beat an E4 member and hold his own with a Champion, so add 2 more series he should still be able to hold his own against a Champion AT LEAST but that behemoth of a Charizard of his, gets negative diff'd by Leon's Charizard? Then Diantha who was #5 (?) and beat Lance, the previous year's Monarch and gave Leon a good fight and Leon demolishes HER too and not with his ace but, Rillaboom. On top of that, Diantha's loss was crammed into like half an episode which is utter BS. ​ Leon gets hate for how he was writter. Meanwhile the Alain hate comes from others still being upset about him beating Ash in the Kalos League a few years back.

Iris I've never understand the hate the fandom has for her even though it's way less now thanks to journeys even back in univa the worst thing she did was call ash a kid compair that with misty who i also like by the way hitting ash with a giant mallet and it really doesn't make since to me

I’m not a personal fan of Serena. It’s not got anything to do the with the shipping or shippers but I just sense a lack of originality with her. To me she just feels like may/dawn, especially with the showcases. Like I feel like they could have done something more with the trainer pv stuff instead of one episode. Also while it’s fine for her to like ash and all….I think it was a bit too much, for the early episodes, it felt like it was just she did everything because of ash…and it’s good she found something and all… I just think it was a bit overkill.

I think people are missing the point of my post the I'm not asking which of these three have underserved hate, rather which of all characters do, the three in my pic is my choice

Serena why the hate she rocks!

For alot of reasons.

She is good, but if people said her first defeated is best development among all poke girls then most likely they put their shipping google on.

I think its because her fans act like she is the best written pokegirl when she really isn't

Exactly. And what's worse is they trash other Pokégirls who are great in their own ways.

Overhyped her development and trashing others, combination of being lovable fan base. /s

Leon is a bad character on both the game and anime. Game. He has no personality except being the undefeated champion. Design looks terrible with all the advertisements on his cape. It screams that he is a massive sellout and has a big ego. At least his battle tower model was a massive improvement. Anime. Same no personality. Undefeated blah blah. He doesn't show up much except to gloat. I'm not even sure why his party is so strong compared to the other champions. It's like they're all 30 levels ahead. Rillaboom is able to tank Hurricane with just his drum beating. Inteleon can eat 2 G-Max moves. It felt like every battle with him, he has massive plot armor. No one wants to watch a one-sided battle; that's why I skipped the Diantha vs. Leon episode. They needed to make him a bit more realistic. Tbh, I think his anime team was trash. /shrug.

Dumbass

I don’t get the Serena hate. Is it because she’s overrated with the ship or what?

yes, plus her toxic stans.

Serena: Shipping wars and Serena is the most vocal character about crushing on Ash. Leon: We weren't shown his greatest, only told about it. Alain: Ash should have won this league, and because he didn't, the guy who beat him gets hated.

serena, people hate her simply because she is in love with the protagonist, the same situation as uraraka from boku no hero, i don't know if she is really hated, but i've heard that at one time uraraka was in 1⁰ in a poll of hated characters in Japan (I don't know if it's true, that's what I've heard)

Alain . He’s badass and just my favorite rival character. Don’t get the hate even though he beat ash

In Alain's case, his defeat of Ash was *really* that major. Another part of it is he felt too much like something of a power fantasy character, which is an argument I can somewhat get behind. His ace being a nigh unstoppable Charizard (before we got to Leon's) also did him no favors, especially with people who were really getting tired of the Gen 1 pandering.

Wait, those three have haters?! You are joking... Right?

Chloe, Dawn, Serena

Chris/Sophocles/Mamane, I actually liked him

Honestly say its Alain. Move the fuck on you troglodytes, XYZ ended and we get you wanted Ash-Greninja to even the score with Charizard but goddamn Ash is already World Champion. He doesnt need the Kalos Title. Sure it'd be nice if Ash equalled the score but again, it doesnt matter anymore, he won, Ash lost.

Some of the hate for Serena fandom wise is justified….she is not all that and only the most fandom hyped girl due to her obvious open crush on Satoshi….if she did not had a crush: her popularity would not be nearly as big nor overhyped.

I say Serena, cause why do they hate her? She is perfect for Ash

See?

You are the reason people hate her you realize that right?

No, I know you guys are just scared that she is best for him

I Don’t Care About Shipping,People Dislike Serena Cause Pretty Much Everybody Who Likes Her Can’t Comprehend That People Ship Ash With Other People And Think That People Should Only Ship Ash With Her,There’s Being A Shipper ,Then There’s Trying To Force That Ship Onto Other People, Which Is What People Like You Are Trying To Do.

Nonsense, there are others who like Serena

Max

Here's the hottest take, Tobias. Technically, I do understand the hate for him. He's a nobody who appears out of no where with no buildup, has at least 2 legendary pokémon, beats Ash, then dips, never to be seen again. But that feels like it should be hate for the writing, not hate for the character. Like I don't remember him doing anything bad? He seemed rather polite at that. It's tough to be bad when you have an emotion sensing dragon on your side. Honestly, I'd love if we got a Tobias backstory or something, it'd be nice. Somewhat related, but sometimes when I see people hate him for steamrolling the competition with legendaries, those same people criticize Ash for not evolving his pokémon and catching legendaries to steamroll the competition. It's not common anymore, but I did see it quite a bit in the past.

Alain was hated? I think that was the salt from the Kalos League.

Goh

Tobias and Serena

Serena is hated? Really? For what?

Not because of the character itself, but her toxic stans.

Tracey

as a game protags fan, i'm so really mad that ppl only see Serena as a "love interest" only instead of a protagonist from the pokemon games. this was shippers' fault

Chloe: not everybody knows what they want, and not everybody learn what they want magically like May or Serena. Chloe's development was rushed, but this was more writers fault because her story got constricted between Ash and Goh's stories.

i personally completly understand the hate for leon: he is a mary-sue(a character without flaws) in the games he completes the story for you basically, until the end of the game. In the series he is so INCREDIBLY overpowered without any context why he is and why deserves to be so strong.

Iris, I think she's actually one of the best companions Ash has had. Sure, her "such a kid" gag can be somewhat annoying, but it isn't as bad as people say and other characters have worse gag, like Bonnie for example.

Kenny, Iris, Ash, Max, Goh and more

She's 10 there like 20.