By - desmoines1999
Don’t want one? Don’t get one.
Abortions for some, tiny American flags for others.
What the hell is this? Some kind of tube?
I posted this story on other subreddits but I'm going to post it here because it illustrates why this whole thing is insane to me. I worked at an abortion clinic as a nurse for two years. Because of the status of abortions in our state there were only a few clinics that did them. We therefore staffed another clinic one Saturday a month in another town. This was during the height and craze of abortion protesters outside of abortion clinics and it was very scary. One Saturday morning in the out of town clinic in walks the second-in-command of the anti-abortion protesters and her daughter. It never dawned on her that the same staff who worked in her own home town would staff another clinic in another town 3 hours away. We recognized her immediately and she recognized us immediately and guess what? Her and her daughter got nothing but the best care and nothing else. Her 16 year old son was actually the person who knocked up her fourteen-year-old daughter. We were just thrilled that under the circumstances, even though it made her a two-faced phony, she still made the right choice for her daughter and did not put her through a life of hell of carrying her own brother's child to term. My point is, there's a million of these stories out there. And I want to make sure that abortion stays legal for anti-abortion protesters just like the rest of us. Because as this story illustrates, if the ability to have an abortion is there and is very much needed, even for an anti-abortion protester, it will be used.
Oh wow that’s awful. I hope she escapes that fucked up household and gets therapy. Poor dear.
My opinion is no one wants one. They get them because they have to. They should be able to get them.
I went through one with my girlfriend after she was raped by her ex boyfriend (we think). The police never caught whoever did it. He beat her up badly. That was before DNA testing. I held her hand after she chose to abort. She was Catholic and I wasn’t ready for marriage with her. Planned Parenthood was a God send for two lost confused teenagers. There are no winners, only degrees of victimhood. Keep it legal.
To that, the so called evangelicals should do more to support people who's social and economic conditions put them in the position to seek out abortions. Instead of relying on legislative force to meet their goals.
Nub-uh! Ya got all deez liberal wackos out there having sex with every LGXYZ that comes along, using gubment-funded contraception, making babies so they can be getting the welfare to afford their Cadillac, and having an abortion every day.
Ruining America! And they’re illegals crossing the border to do this, bringing their drugs and after they have these abortions, they use the babies to get citizenship.
All because the left-wing media covered up that Biden took money from China and the election was fake!
I'm upvoting because this is the kind of beautiful stupid that deserves to be in a museum. Shine on you crazy lead based paint chip eating diamond. Also if you have children remind them that huffing paint is bad and Vitamin M is actually meth.
I was gonna say the person was trolling, but they're posts are farming simulator...
My god, how much thicker did I need to put it on for the joke to come through?
Dude, we actually drive Subarus now. Didn’t you get our latest LGXYZ newsletter? Feel free to update your email address to liberalwackos.org to keep in the know
Well shit, it’s worse than I thought. Y’all commie bastards can’t even drive a murican car.
I think the ruckus is a manufactured debate with little historical precedent; if we are going to be originalist in our Constitutional interpretation, then we need to realize the Founding Fathers had no idea of life before at least the quickening; and women should be empowered to make their own decisions without the government telling them what to do.
However you feel about abortion if you don't think they aren't coming for birth control you are sadly mistaken because it's already started.
Nevermind interracial marriage, gay marriage, and public education, which is also coming.
It's just not my business. Go ahead, I really just give zero fucks if you have an abortion or not.
The pregnant person should decide and they can include whoever they wish in that decision.
Whether or not I would ever decide to have one, I believe it should be a decision between a woman and her doctor, not the government.
Government should not be involved at all
If I didn't know we were talking about abortion, this would sound exactly like something a republican would say.
That’s the problem with republicans, they want the government out of their lives and into everyone elses!
That's the problem with invoking the power of government to solve social problems...it absolved us of the responsibility of being decent fucking people.
Anyone who values liberty, really.
To be clear: anyone who believes in using government to oppress people you disagree with doesn't believe in liberty.
> Whether or not I would ever decide to have one, I believe it should be a decision between a woman and her doctor, not the government.
I was under the impression this is what we were talking about.
My commet wasn't directed toward you specifically, just those who like to weaponize words like liberty when the rights in question tend to align with their views.
True liberty is recognizing rights to those who you disagree with.
Fair. On that, I agree entirely.
Well if Roe is repealed we’ll almost certainly see increases in poverty, crime, maternal mortality, child abandonment, child abuse, babies born with horrific medical conditions, infanticide (actual baby-killing), femicide, domestic abuse, and women being terrorized by the state and religious and right-wing fanatics.
But if you ignore all that it’s not really a big deal.
There's a reason Ireland, a Catholic nation, legalized abortion just recently!!! Made the mistake of looking up horror stories of forced births there and uh... it's really bad. That country only has a pop of 7 million... imagine the scale of suffering in USA.
Definitely, 100% Pro-Choice. I am always around women who are Pro-Life, and they were all taught that they’d go to hell if they had an abortion. I’d be scared to exercise my right to choose and abortion if I’d been brainwashed all my life into thinking just that. These people I enjoy spending time with, as many are parents of my children’s friends. However, that is one of the subjects that is a complete deal breaker for me… if the person has to preach their Pro-Life opinions. I can’t even listen to it. I wish I had more patience to listen and have a conversation about it, maybe even have them open up to seeing that Pro-Choice doesn’t mean you are going to randomly, carelessly, repeatedly fuck and get pregnant just to kill the unborn. That is crazy. It does mean we support our right as a woman to have control over our own destiny. That might mean waiting until a better time in life, terminating a rape pregnancy, or making the decision due to health/medical reasons. The CHOICE is there. Take that away and there will be thousands (millions?) of angry women. I’d be one of them. I had an abortion when I was a teenager. Now I am educated, married. And have four children who I love more than anything. But I had the CHOICE when I needed it.
The human body aborts 60 percent of all zygotes. (Exact number may vary, the rhetorical point is what's important here). Human BODIES naturally decide that a fetus or zygote or whatever is not worth the energy and will abort more often than not.
Deciding to manually abort is no morally different than our bodies deciding to abort.
If people understood prenatal mortality rates, we wouldn't be having these arguments.
(I'm not too hopeful that conservatives actually care about fetal life though, it's likely a power thing)
Same opinion on every other medical option someone has to face or manage, none of my fucking business. Shouldn’t even be an opinion. “Al’s getting bypass surgery.” Is Al shamed? Hell no. Or “Al’s getting a vasectomy.” Is Al persecuted? No, he’s a man.
Don't forget "Al's taking Viagra"!
Agreed, my body, my rules. If i see fit the need, it should be unquestioned.
Also adding im really disgusted that this is even becoming a national issue again, doesn't the government have enough shit to sort out right now?
We'd all be better off if they actually stopped trying to do that.
Have one if you think that is right for you, or don’t have one if that is right for you
I have never met anyone who was pro-abortion, simply pro-choice. Just like I have never met a pro-lifer, only pro-birthers.
There are, in fact, people who are pro-abortion. But I get that that doesn't fit with your joke.
As an American, I'm generally in favor of more rights for Americans, not fewer.
I think people who need abortions should be able to get them.
I think people who want to use recreational drugs should be able to.
I think people who want to own firearms should be able to buy them.
I think people who want to boycott Israel should be allowed to.
I want the government doing things that make out society better for the people, like providing healthcare, improving public education, preserving natural lands and water, and preventing abuse of the working class by oligarchs.
It's a woman's right. It's concerning that Plan B is being limited to only allowed in prescriber offices in Tennessee and they're making ordering via mail a Felony. Given how poorly Iowa's been the past few years, I hope we don't follow their example.
Plan B isn't even an abortion wtffffffff
because the fetus was never the point, it's 100% about controlling women
Tell that to the Louisiana legislation trying to make it a homicide.
Welcome to the insanity of considering a fucking fertilized egg the equivalent of a fully developed person.
*potentially fertilized egg
It isn't my choice to make. People get religious about it and it's annoying. If people want to get religious about it then it's God's job to judge the person on their choices not the responsibility of other humans.
Fund Planned Parenthood so women have the resources and tools to avoid pregnancy. Also, abortion should be kept legal, let’s face it criminalizing abortion will only impact the poor.
It is the woman’s right to receive one. Full stop
Keep in mind that Reddit is far from a representative sample of Iowans (or really any broad demographic’s) opinions.
Especially since local subreddits are targets of astroturfing campaigns.
It should be between a person and their doctor.
i'm pro-life, but that is me, i will not force my opinion or views onto someone else, that is their life and i believe the government is overstepping and trampling personal freedoms.
they should be taking the money being burned in pursuit of personal goals, and put into sex education and health services.
What a perfect topic for Mother’s Day! Abortion is 100% healthcare and not letting people have access to them is inhuman. If abortion is murder, my throat is a cemetery. Why aren’t we improving our foster care, our schools, poverty, etc? Instead we’re protecting a fetus that we can’t even distinguish between a human’s or dolphin’s..
Because championing the unborn is easy. It carries no responsibility for the pro-birth crowd. They don't have to do anything except harass people and virtue signal to their friends. There's no responsibility required.
Making plans to fix endemic problems is difficult, unsexy, and doesn't rile up a base of voters.
This is the truth. How would evangelicals reduce abortions without using the force of law? If only there was someone who provided an example to follow...hmmmm.
100% pro choice. Someone getting an abortion doesn’t effect me at all so why should it be any of my business.
I support the right to be able to chose whether you want one or not.
I don't have a uterus so I will leave it up to those that do.
Abortion is a medical procedure and should be up to the person and their doctor. Outlawing abortion will make it something the wealthy may travel to access and just DIY for the poor. Many will die.
The people behind this don't care about life. They're looking for a supply of infants and would like to restrict women in general.
Mostly it should be left up to the woman and her doctor. Preferably the earlier the better. Late term abortions would be questionable.
If the fetus is a product of rape, it should DEFINITELY be the woman's choice, NO exceptions.
The 14th Amendment only gives those that are BORN rights. So therefore an unborn fetus would NOT supercede the mother/host in terms of rights because the former doesn't have any.
There are like 3 clinics in the whole country that do third trimester abortions. It’s exceedingly rare. And in my case, I had to qualify based on medical reasons.
I said this elsewhere, but **absolutely no one** gets a late-term abortion for funsies. Here's Pete Buttigieg on third-trimester abortion:
"If it's that late in your pregnancy, than almost by definition, you've been expecting to carry it to term. We're talking about women who have perhaps chosen a name. Women who have purchased a crib, families that then get the most devastating medical news of their lifetime, something about the health or the life of the mother or viability of the pregnancy that forces them to make an impossible, unthinkable choice. And the bottom line is as horrible as that choice is, that woman, that family may seek spiritual guidance, they may seek medical guidance, but that decision is not going to be made any better, medically or morally, because the government is dictating how that decision should be made."
Thank you for your thorough reply. The only response I can think of to people worrying about late-term abortion is “what defines ‘late-term’ for you, and who the fuck do you think are getting them all Willy-nilly?” That isn’t super helpful for the conversation though, so I keep it to myself.
I'm not a woman but: I think bodily autonomy is one of the most important civil liberties we are afforded. In the same way I can get elective surgeries to alter my appearance or sterilize myself, a woman should be able to terminate a pregnancy. I could not imagine being a woman and being FORCED to have a baby I am not equipped to care for or that puts my own health at risk. No one should be forced to bear a child they do not want, nor should that child be forced into existence to live in the horrendous foster care system that exists in our country.
That's the problem. Now that we've seen the leaked memos we know that we have to resupply white babies to adopt for white couples who are infertile. This is about way more than these morons trying to force their will on the rest of us. This is about literally trying to create a base of adoptable white babies for people in our country. Never mind that the racial disparity within abortion is huge and that the only thing that's going to happen is that there's going to be a lot more babies of other colors as well as the white babies that Society is now going to be taking care of so this whole thing is just insane beyond belief.
As a very non-religious person I have decided that if Iowa starts doing this bullshit I'm going to form a Satanic Temple Church to ensure that abortions can happen in Iowa.
Nor should a man be forced to support a child he did not want to have. Autonomy for all.
Edit: A lot of you people with uteruses don't really care about the choice at all. You just want the power and leverage to control people with penises. You are just like your oppressors.
If it was really about the choice, you wouldn't be adamant about removing the choice of another person.
Sorry there’s so male equivalent of the personal bodily harm that’s done by pregnancy.
What? Are we suddenly doing men's rights now? Like good little GOP?
How about: If you stick it in, YOU'RE IN.
If you don't want the chance of a kid, keep your dick out of baby making mode.
I’m all for women’s rights. On a side note can we vote in a bill to abort shitty politicians into the ocean? No? How about we send them on a cruise that isn’t allowed to dock at a port?
It’s not the governments job to dictate what you do with your body (or your life in general). It should only be up to a woman and her doctor.
"A woman's body is her own fucking business."--Jay of Jay and Silent Bob fame
Women's rights are human rights.
A fetus is not a baby.
The government should not have the ability to legislate women's bodies.
I can not support this erasure of our freedom.
A woman should not have more rights dead than alive
I appreciate the sentiment but I disagree with this type of statement because it's a bit disingenuous.
Dead people don't have the right to vote, or the right to privacy, among many others.
I think a better way of saying it would be:
It's wrong that a corpse has rights that a living woman does not.
Thank you for the clarification I can see how your statement makes more sense
I'm pro life. I believe most people get abortions not because they want to, but because they feel like they have to. Which means there needs to be viable alternatives to abortions, like financial support through pregnancy and early motherhood, and foster care reformation, so that more women are willing to go through unwanted pregnancy. I get pissed off when Republicans push anti abortion laws, because that's not going to do shit. God forbid they allocate government resources to support mothers.
I hate abortion, but I don't think we're anywhere near a point where it can or should be outlawed.
I know this will be buried by downvotes... But you asked and I answered.
My opinion doesn’t matter. The only opinion that matters is the woman’s opinion who is in the situation. This should not be a political matter. It belongs only to that woman and her Dr.
100% pro-choice. It's so depressing that this is still being fought over. If you don't approve of abortions, never have one. Don't force your opinion on others. You don't know their situation and it's none of your business.
I’ve had an abortion in Des Moines. AMA. ❤️
Were you happy with the care you received at your provider? Did you feel safe and supported, inside and outside the clinic? Thank you for doing this💕
I was. The staff was incredible. They asked me several times if the abortion was up to me, if someone was forcing me which looking back is so important to helping other women. They also gave me many choices, so you want a blanket? Do you want to see an ultrasound, do you want to know if it’s twins. They let you steer how much you want to know.
I felt safe inside the building because the security guard was no joke. I was patted down, my mom and I had to hand over our phones and go through a metal detector. It was a pretty well locked down facility.
Outside I also felt safe. Thankfully there were no protestors that day. Though I’ve met women who had raw meat and ketchup thrown on them or have been recorded by protestors when they walk in. I am a lucky minority that I felt safe.
My body my choice!
Why argue like the government/scotus us the ability to give/take rights? They *should* only protect them. When they fail to do so, then you still have your right, you may just need to defend and/or fight for it as you see appropriate or just do it anyways, system be damned and you can sleep soundly
It’s a debate that should have died when it was approved. The world has much bigger issues than abortion.
Don't make laws about women's bodies. Her body, her choice. Always.
Instead of letting states pick if you can get an abortion, let people pick.
If you don't want one, don't get one forehead.
If you're concerned cuz of "Muh Religums", get bent imho.
Every woman should have to defer health choices to the man of the house, because women should have to be bothered with such complex ideas.
If you agree with that you are a fucking moron.
Of course it should be legal. My God, I don't understand why this is even an issue.
Her body her choice. No uterus no opinion.
Imo it’s not about the individual nor is it about the people. If conservatives care about a baby’s right to life so much, free education and universal healthcare, maternity leave, newborn care cost, social work, would’ve all been on the table first.
Anyone saying “oh then if it’s my body the vaccine wouldn’t be required” do not have the empathy or sympathy to have a reasonable discussion with.
Imo this is a discussion on privilege and location. Rich people will always have access to abortion. Men in power will always have access to force a woman or child into abortion to save face.
SCOTUS, itself is a problem. What does DC know about people in the Midwest? I hate Joni earnst but I can give credit to her for introducing the bill of protecting military women of sexual assault in the military. Iowa has so many veterans who are victims and she is giving tribute to help them.
I have so much sadness for the state of the country’s lack of compassion and the government constant fueling of conspiracy.
My perspective is that if you're not ready to take care of a child then the child deserved not to be brought into the world.
I know damn well, that the odds that people use them as 'birth-control' or up to 9 months is utter BS. The propaganda won't fly with me. Otherwise, there are 100s of valid reasons for one.
What I do know, is that it is a tough decision for anyone in the room that is making it. And that is who should be involved in the room and decision. It is not mine, yours, or any damn governments choice to make. Maybe, if we just minded our own damn business.
No one should be forced to go through the trauma that is giving birth and/or forced to be a parent. Even though we have the technology and expertise for birth to be not as risky, it's risky regardless. And even if everybody had equal access to the best doctors and treatment possible, birthing is still trauma to your body. Humans are sexual beings, it's what biology wants us to do. So it's not even as simple as "don't have sex". We are WIRED to do that. Results of sex shouldn't be a punishment, but especially not when there is also unequal access to birth control.
Without my partners' full access to the gamut of birth control options, my life would be radically different.
Because of women's healthcare (up to and including abortion) I am allowed to be a better husband, citizen, and father.
Abortion should be free and on demand imo. I’m glad Iowa (currently) recognizes a fundamental right to abortion under the state constitution, even stronger than Roe’s protections.
Ironically as someone said earlier here, the Reddit I’d guess isn’t representative. The urbane aren’t the majority, just look at the governors office for proof of that.
Seeing a lot of “government should not have a say and shouldn’t be involved” posts so I guess to devils advocate that from a pro abortion perspective: I think it’s the duty of our government to properly defend the right to access abortions everywhere within its borders. The same way the government has legislation in place to protect workers. I see the abortion issue mainly as a labor issue. The personhood of the fetus is irrelevant to me, the mother not consenting to the labor of childbearing is enough to terminate a pregnancy. In no other medical situation involving another living person is my bodily autonomy threatened in the same way (I.e I cannot be forced against my will to give blood or organs to keep someone else alive, even if they are dying because of my actions). I think abortion is similar and needs to be a protected right to prevent the abuse of labor.
I feel like life starts at the erection! Masterbation is MURDER!
Every sperm is sacred! Every sperm is grand!
I believe that a women should have access to abortion at every stage of the pregnancy and that she, in consult with her doctors factual information, is the only one who should be making the decision. I don’t get a flip about the late term abortion hysteria and handwringing because evidence shows that late term abortions are almost always used in cases of medical necessity either because a fetus isn’t viable or to save the life of the mother.
I'm against abortion, but honestly, I want to see more support for single moms, better parental leave, more support for kids post-birth, mental health access for pregnant and postpartum women, protections for pregnant women in the workplace, and affordable childcare. I'm not your typical pro-birth candidate. Abortion ends human life. If people really hate abortion that much, then they should make birth and raising children easier for women, who currently get the short end of the stick in every way. Right now, abortion as the answer makes sense because women still do not get the support they need.
While I differ with you on the abortion stance, I 100% agree that more needs to be done to make raising kids easier in this country
Considering children as young as 10 or 11 reach menarche and many women last until 50 until menopause. That's a hell of a long time to avoid being assaulted/raped. This is extreme perhaps because the situation is extreme - would we really force children to have their rape babies? Having a baby is a serious medical "procedure" or experience that can kill. What's next - miscarriages will be investigated by the police? It's so sad the way this is going.
This is separation of church and state. Plain and simple. Separate them! Don't want an abortion? Don't have one.
Some states are already planning to investigate miscarriages. I believe a woman in Texas was nearly charged recently because she lost her pregnancy--spontaneous abortion (aka miscarriage). Of course women who have ectopic pregnancies will die without abortion so there will be no need to prosecute them. Okay, unless they decided to prosecute posthumously.
Fetus isn't a baby, and even if it was in no other situation do we allow one person to put their life above someone else's. Let alone mandate it by law, criminalize the prevention and persecute those that try to defend against. A FETUS ISNT A PERSON AND EVEN IF IT WERE IT STILL WOULDNT HAVE RIGHTS TO YOUR BODY.
I cannot cause significant bodily trauma to another human against their will, ever. AT MINIMUM birth is physically traumatic, and that implies no lasting effects, no ppd, no pregnancy side effects, and the general mental wellbeing of the person in question to be supported and cared for throughout the process.
Aborting a fetus isn't murder, because it's not a person. Even if it was a person you are only ending it's abuse of someone else's autonomy. a byproduct being likely end of life for those cells.
Fuck anyone putting it into law that OUR LIVES matter less than someTHING else's. And fuck those who care more about the small cells in a woman's womb more than they do the actual living and breathing BABIES that are currently malnourished, abused, unwanted, and unloved that are regularly brought into this world because someone got involved and decided for those families that this was more "humane".
I don’t have a uterus, if a woman wants one she should be able to safely get one. Same way if I want a vasectomy it should available and safe for me to get. Any counter to abortion access on religious ground is d.o.a. You cannot ban abortion bc a small group (>30%) believe pregnancy is “god’s will” or whatever religious beliefs they hold, simply because that is propping up one religion over the rest and absent thereof. Which isn’t exactly adhering to the first amendment. Everyone should be able to practice their religion but that doesn’t give anyone the right to dictate their religious beliefs onto others, and beyond abortion this opens the door into so many other things a radical Supreme Court could go after. I’m not gonna hit buzzwords but it doesn’t stop at recent decisions the very right of privacy is on the line.
I don't think the gov't should fund it in any way or have any laws for/against it.
We should abort the political class
Legal and safe for everyone to get. If you don't want one, you don't get one. It's literally that easy. It's none of your business what happens with other people's bodies.
When I hear pro-life, all I hear is, "I don't care about you or if you die." Very pro-life to wish death on me.
The orbit of Bob Vander Plaats et al will have their say. They got gay marriage banned in Iowa this century. It didn't work, of course, but those people didn't go anywhere. They'll try anything they can and they will need to be dealt with by whatever millennials are still here, whatever zoomers are still stuck here, and the genX women who have never had to worry about what this could mean for women's rights until now. As much as it sucks, we're going to have to do a politics.
Anti-abortionists are pro death, pro suffering.. They actually mandated the horrid late term method they criticize in the unfortunate and rare circumstances they're needed. Because they're monsters and liars. They hate babies, their policies kill more babies (ESPECIALLY if they're right about where life begins), they know this and STILL support them, their policy kills children. Kills women. Is good for both but suffering and passing judgement. They are pro death, pro suffering, anti child, anti woman, anti autonomy. They have IMMEDIATELY pivoted to attacking contraceptives to solidify any doubt. Do not *ever* let them call themselves 'pro life," that's already letting them get away with it. There can be no quarter on this topic, just as they've given none on their road to upheaval of the rule of law itself to impose their religion on everyone else. Fuck pro-death anti-abortionists to goddamn tears and a thousand dicks in their religion.
Really 63 million abortions since roe. Many of them are black babies. Did you know in 2015 and 2018 more black babies were aborted than born alive in NYC. Abortion has played out to be the systemic killing of minorities. It has played out exactly how the left wanted
isn't this you?
Yeah, gonna highly doubt your intentions here
Babies =/= zygotes =/= fetuses =/= embryos.
Pro-deathers are pure bad faith. You don't care about *any* of the above *especially* if they're black.
You don't care about black babies
Just a heads up, reddit leans hard to the left so it probably isn't a good place to conduct a poll and isn't representative of actual iowans.
Abortion should be not just legal, but also free.
If you don't want an abortion, don't get one. End of story.
Abort all babies
More the merrier. Too many people already
I'm against religion. So I don't go to church and don't care if other other people do.
As long as you don't try to keep anyone else from having one, have whatever opinion you want
Being religious is not a law. This is.
Because it had to be, because religious people tried to make it illegal.
I fail to see your point.
Why did it have to be?
And this ladies and gentlemen is an example of the “conservative brain rot”.
Note the blind following of religion while disregarding others beliefs.
Other side effects include: red hats, diarrhea of the mouth, and voting against your own interests.
Thank you for coming to me TEDTalk
I'm also against abortion, but I understand that I am so because of my personal moral & religious beliefs and I shouldn't try to force that morality or religion on others.
You can be against abortion. That's perfectly okay. You just can't make everybody else feel the way that you feel or make laws based on this opinion
Neither can you.
Abortion is a choice. Absolutely no one is forcing you to get one. Everyone should have the choice for the themselves.
Nobody is making anyone GET abortions. We want to leave it in the hands of the mother: her body, her choice
Again that’s not my opinion.
And again: go ahead and have your opinion. The opinion of pro-birth people, though, should not be considered for law. Neither should religion. It should only be up to the person who is pregnant
I support your decision to not get an abortion.
You are doing great work here!
I think everyone is fine with you being against abortion, they just don't think you should be able to tell everyone else that they also have to share your beliefs.
Don’t expect me to share your’s either.
My comment just said, no one cares that you have a different opinion, that is your right. The problem is one side creating a law forcing someone else to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. This is no different than someone creating a law forcing you to have an abortion against your belief. If you believe humans should be able to make their own decisions about their body, then we are on the same side.
Do you believe that women should have access to safe and legal abortion despite it not being an option you'd choose for yourself?
Or better yet, should women have access to condoms, other birth control , operations due to emergency reproduction issues… etc, y’all want every poor woman having babies better step up the helping out checks… cuz when you take access to birth control you take away your population control.
I am against abortion unless the mom’s life is in jeopardy.
Do you believe that abortion is murder?
Yes I do.
So is it no longer murder if the mother's life is in danger? Or is it justified murder?
I fully am behind it with the exception of any super late term stuff.
Late term abortions are almost exclusively due to fetal disease or risk to mothers life. It is very important to protect this right as it saves women’s lives and saves babies undue suffering.
I didn’t think I would have to elaborate further but yes of course if anything is to harm the mother or a issue with baby I’m for it.
Basically the only one I don’t support is a mom aborting a totally fine baby a month before it’s due date.
I’ve changed my mind on late term abortions. Generally, women will have discovered they are pregnant by 6-7 months in, so we can rule out surprise pregnancy late term abortions. By the final term in a pregnancy , most women/families, have made arrangements for this child to come into this world. They have bought clothes, crib, car seat, bottles, etc…. They have told their families and possibly had parties. They WANT to have this child.
Most likely, the reason they are considering an abortion is something has gone wrong medically with the baby. There may be other reasons, but those reasons must be pretty serious to make this women decide the last half year of preparation and body change are no longer needed. most likely these women DON’T want to have an abortion.
We don’t know. We don’t get to make that decision for them. It’s a choice that they have the right to make. I’m not going to take that choice away just because I may not agree.
Crazy how this sub is all about "my body my choice" but had the complete opposite feelings when it came to masks and jabs.
Crazy how the “my body my choice” crowd around vaccinations and wearing masks crowd has opposite feelings around abortions.
Hell yes! I remember when I had to wear a mask at target for an hour and I was absolutely traumatized. What about us, huh?
That is a false equivalency because you can't get pregnant while being around someone pregnant whereas you can get sick by being around a sick person.
I believe the decision should be between the woman and her God.
Leave imaginary sky daddy out of it
Just like your right to not get vaccinated
I have some coworkers that believe in a person's right to not get vaccinated, but do not believe in a person's right to an abortion / other reproductive rights. I feel like it's hard to argue the "it's my body" point on vaccinations when you have the complete opposite view on abortions. It's one of my favorite things to ask when someone says "it's my body" and that it's their right to not get vaccinated.
At least pick an argument and stick to it across the board (even if I think your argument is trash).
Edit: using "you / your" in a general sense here
Street goes both ways, most pro-choice, my body my rules people are pro-vaccine mandates 🤷🏼♂️ and pro-life people are pro-death penalty
Not an equivalent... diseases like Covid are easily transmisable. You can transmit a disease to an entire crowd of people just by being present.
Getting an entire crowd of people pregnant just by breathing in their vicinity is a lot harder.
That's why vaccinations like the MMR, polio vaccine, and C19 vaccines are a public health issue of a different order.
Don't try to equate the two.
Mmr, polio, etc. are nearly universally effective against disease that don’t/won’t mutate. Your argument would be more effective if applied to other yearly vaccinations such as the flu, which are…. Wait for it…. Voluntary.
Real issue here is that everyone thinks it’s not the governments place to make these decisions, and everyone is right. The people should be the ones telling the government what to do, not vice versa. Apply this to both side.
It's my right to drive drunk! It only effects me! The government can't tell me what to do!
abortions are not contagious, this is a false equivalency
Funny thing is that it is your right not to get vaccinated. Your choice. However the public and your employer may also make choices to reduce its risk to you by limiting your exposure to them.
Her body, her choice. If she wants to terminate, then let her terminate. If she wants to keep, then let her keep. If she wants to give up her parental rights, then let her. But men should be allowed to do the same.
If women can have a abortion, a man can abandon legal responsibility to providing if she has the child against his wishes. Men have less equality in the courts over custody and support based on the archaic idea that men were the breadwinner and women stayed at home.
If you support women's rights, then you should also support men's equality.
I get the sentiment here, but I think my struggle is this: If a child is born, then that child still needs financial support. So this example significantly harms the child. It goes past "You did this, so I can do that" and we move into the territory where a living person needs to have food, shelter, access to medical insurance, etc
If the woman can't afford the child then she should make the choice to have a abortion or give it up for adoption.
If a man can't afford the child, you're saying he has no say in this?
This is about the child, not the parents. If you can move past the selfishness of the parents and focus on the fact that a child needs support, you will understand what I'm saying
If you raised the child you would be getting child support from her. Child support is a payment to the person raising the child from the other parent; this is typically, but not always, from the man to the woman, buy it has nothing to do with men being the traditional breadwinner as much as its about making sure the child can eat food.
Its your job to be responsible with where your penis goes. Just because you put it in someone else once doesn't give you the right to dictate what they do with their body afterwards.
"my money is just as important as a woman's literal body!" lmao
Your comment makes no sense in relation to mine. Economic reasons is the reason most women choose to have a abortion, why can't it be the same for a man? I may not be able to force a abortion, but I should certainly be able to abandon the child.
You are an idiot. Men already do abandon children they helped create. Some real winners create multiple children and abandon all of them. Men choose to do that because society has allowed them to do that. There is no law that criminalizes the abandonment of children by the father.
Men may go to jail for failure to pay child support, but let’s face it, far more men don’t go to jail than do, for not financially supporting their children.
If a man is engaging in sex with a person with a uterus, then he damn well better be prepared to face the consequences of supporting a child.
I don't think you understand how equality works. You can't just take the good stuff and cry the part of a victim when it doesn't work out in your favor.
I understand that you have no idea what you are talking about.
there is no arbitrary point after conception that one becomes a human being due all the same rights any other person. Life begins at conception and so does the right to live and every other right common to all persons.
After conception it therefore becomes by definition someone else's body, not *just* the mother's.
Having an unwanted baby is tough, and people in that position need love and support, but there are other options than murder.
People who have had an abortion also need love, support, and forgiveness.
In order to be a person in the United States you have to be born.
14th Amendment "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
There is no right to life prior to birth.
Rights do NOT come from the government. The government simply protects them.
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men
two examples where one should be able to see why:
Just because the Russian government says its ok for their soldiers to kill men, women, and children in Ukraine doesn't make it right.
Because the Nazis decided that Jewish people (among others) didn't have the right to live, they slaughtered millions
Everyone agrees that these two examples are wrong, yet those governments thought they were right.
Rights come from the social contract, basically the rights we grant ourselves. To imagine they come from anywhere else is delusional.
This particular right is in contention because it wasn't written on our founding documents. If sky God wants to float more tablets down to earth explaining her position then we'd consider it.
Your two examples. It wouldn't be right - in the United States because those citizens were born - missing my point completely
in the same way that the United States government chose to adjust the law by amending the constitution to protect the rights of those born, the Nazi government chose to change their laws to eliminate the rights of Jews and other groups they decided were undesirable.
You have missed my point: just because the government doesn't have a law protecting a right doesn't mean the right doesn't exist.
What about in vitro fertilization? I ask because the "life begins at conception" is really referring to fertilization. What rights do fertilized embryos have? Do they have rights prior to implantation? What if both parents wish to destroy fertilized embryos prior to implantation due to no longer wishing to pursue IVF? Do those embryos have a right to be born? Can the government force a couple to either maintain the embryos or donate them to another couple to be born?
I understand those may be complicated questions and truthfully my ire isn't aimed at you. I've just watched my sibling struggle with fertility treatments.
My wife had a D&C to clean up tissue after a miscarriage and abortive medication failed to pass all the tissue. It is difficult to put into words the decision to take the medicine. It was accepting that this baby that we very much wanted was not going to happen this time.
Abortion and other treatments are not always limited to "unwanted" babies.
my condolences, these two cases are indeed more ambiguous and do raise those questions are indeed tough.
I just want the unborn to be as protected as possible, and raise my own objections especially since there are so many here promoting abortion. ( to be expected I suppose, since DSM is the liberal part of this conservative state)
Thank you for the response. DSM is definitely more liberal, and this sub is definitely not indicative of the actual population. I appreciate you sharing your views, knowing that the mob will likely attack them. It's important that someone does it.
I had a cousin whose baby's genetic testing showed it had Trisomy 18. The testing was relatively early in the pregnancy. She chose to keep it and he lived for a few hours. She carried him to term, knowing there was no real chance of survival. I'm not sure if we'd have done the same, but I believe the choice whether to terminate is one we should have.
In a hypothetical world where I was the sole bone marrow transplant match for another person, I do not believe that the government should be able to force me to undergo the donation procedure. Even if I'd already signed up as a donor in the abstract and even if that other person will die without my bone marrow. My personal autonomy has value.
I've genuinely gotten more pro-life as I've gotten older. I do believe that life is sacred. I'm also pro-living and pro-people. If there were more movement to support the people making these gut-wrenching decisions, I believe elective abortion would go away. Yada yada, that old Clinton line about "safe, legal and rare." I just wish there was more being done to address the root causes, rather than casting out those who already feel so alone.
“The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”
The language of the 9th amendment sounds to me like an admission that the founders anticipated evolving conceptions of what counts as natural, inalienable right. So how is privacy not an essential human right? Why should the government tell me who I can marry, where I can live, or what medical decisions I can or can’t make?
People went from “vaccinate everyone!” To “your body your choice” real quick
Vaccine mandates? Where?
I’m all good up until a certain timeline then I’m not really all good with it.
Like all rights it should have some narrow limitations.
They actually have these requirements today. Not sure that’s up for debate
At this point why is this subreddit still called “des Moines” just change it already to Des Moines democrats.
Des Moines is a pretty liberal city so I’m not sure why you’d be surprised that the majority of the people in here would be democrats
Not suprised it’s just that’s all this subreddit is. Politics. Non stop politics so they might as well change the name of this subreddit.
Hey man, we also get a lot of cool nighttime photos of downtown!
Men and women should both be able to dodge the responsibility equally, legally, and safely. You should have 18 years to decide