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JachZones

I think the best thing that they can do after they crown the TBS champ is pull the trigger on as many women’s division forbidden door-esque matches as possible. If you could get the winner to face off against a Joshi star, a known veteran, someone on Impact, and maybe someone like Ember Moon in their post-cut debut all within a month or so of the title crowning, I think people will be like “okay that’s the workhorse belt” and just like that they’ve established something that makes it different


Pylons

I mean, look at who challenged for the NWA Women's title, for a start?


MARKYMARK_MARK

Too many people forget that NWA women's title was basically a Midcard AEW Women's title for almost a year. That was before Rampage, which added a TV match.


bannedfromringside

I think AEW could benefit from having someone backstage who’s sole job is to put together over arching storylines for the women’s division. Basically copy the same formula they used to build up Britt and create more stars, plan long term feuds, ect. That way it would be much more obvious to the viewer who is at the top. Tbh i don’t mind the way they book the division now, but they could easily take it to the next level with a little more pre planning and foresight.


ECWCat

>I think AEW could benefit from having someone backstage who’s sole job is to put together over arching storylines for the women’s division. Kenny Omega and TK seem to have no interest in this. Brandi did, but wound up putting herself over. Dustin seems to be the de facto guy now, but it's above his pay grade. Pretty sure Emi Sakura and Shida could run the whole thing but they are not asked to.


DeadmanPrince

If I had to make a tier list off the top of my head it would be as follows: This isn't necessarily based on just their wrestling ability. It's also on where they are on the card in general. As an example, I don't consider Jade to be a better wrestler than Jamie Hayter, but she is higher on the card based on how she is booked, hence why she is higher. Do I agree with it? No. It's just where I see things standing in the division at the moment. Tier 1: Britt Baker, Thunder Rosa, Hikaru Shida Tier 2: Ruby Soho, Serena Deeb Tier 3: Jade Cargill, Kris Statlander, Nyla Rose, Tay Conti, Riho Tier 4: Anna Jay, Jamie Hayter, Bunny, Red Velvet, Penelope Ford Tier 5: Leyla Hirsch, Emi Sakura, Yuka Sakazaki Tier 6: Abadon, Kiera Hogan Tier 7: Brandi Rhodes, Leva Bates, Rebel To answer your question, the top 2 tiers I consider would be in the main event picture for the main title. I'm of a different opinion. I DO believe that they have laid a good foundation for a MID card title (tiers 3-4, maybe 2 to an extent). I don't believe however it has been laid out for the top card. (Tiers 1-2 is a lot thinner). I think their mid card has depth. It's the top card which is the issue for me.


Affectionate-Fly4831

I can agree with this


fwaig

Excellently put across.


fellongreydaze

The TNT Title is a 1b, not a midcard. The TBS Title will be treated similarly.


BillfredL

It took me so long to figure out what my issue was with their argument, and by the time I figured it out you beat me to it.


Fernandingo

>The TNT Title is a 1b, not a midcard. Can you explain what this means? I hear it all the time and have no idea what the actual difference is


SnuffShock

They aren’t the #1 title and #2 title, they are both top tier titles that showcase different things. The world title is mainly held be the biggest star in the company and is usually defended only at ppvs with a long storyline attached. The TNT belt is held by the hottest star of the moment and defended on tv regularly to showcase the title holder and their opponent, with open challenges. The world title has more prestige, the TNT has more activity, but it’s not like one is for the best guys and one is for the merely good guys.


Fernandingo

I like your answer in terms of how you defined them as showcasing separate aspects but the fact that one title is more valuable than the other surely separates them into different tiers. There's a reason more midcard guys fight for the TNT title, it's not as prestigious.


SnuffShock

Depends on what you mean. If you want to be seen as a superstar and have a storyline match, the world title is the one you want. If you want to be seen as the guy that puts on amazing matches every week with a variety of wrestlers, then it’s the TNT belt. They mean different things but I wouldn’t say that the guy who puts on weekly clinics isn’t as good as the guy who wrestles six matches a year. YMMV.


Own_Explanation_1516

They are on equal footing


Fernandingo

How? The world title is obviously more valuable than the TNT title, that's why it's the world title


fellongreydaze

People don't look at the TNT Title as a stepping stone to the World Title. The TNT Title has its own prestige. Every person who has held it has treated it like the most important title in the world. Cody insisted on keeping the incomplete version of the title since it was "the first." Brodie Lee stood tall over Cody while his entire faction celebrated the win. [Darby has gone on record as saying the TNT Title is the only belt that matters to him.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXzyWoQDLHQ) Miro straight up starts a feud with God after losing the TNT Title. Sammy got a confetti moment in-ring when he beat Miro, and [in his speech afterwards](https://youtu.be/VslVJuKSZIY?t=416), he says "No offense to Kenny's belt, but this is the most important title in professional wrestling. It's a 1B because the wrestlers treat it like a prestigious title.


Fernandingo

Obviously you're going to celebrate a title win no matter what title it is. And of course you're going to put over the title you just won. Goes for literally any title in wrestling. I like what the TNT championship represents but it's simply not on the tier of the World title, which is why you have guys like Tony Nese and Bobby Fish fighting for it when they wouldn't sniff the World title scene. The day a TNT title match headlines a PPV over the World title I'll think about it as 1B.


Own_Explanation_1516

Because they say they are. Titles values are determined by the company. In the 80's the IC title was pretty much on par with the World Title.


Fernandingo

That's a pretty absurd way of thinking imo Because management says something is of a certain value that doesn't make it so. If most of the people challenging for a title are in the midcard then to me it's a midcard title. And there's nothing wrong with that. Titles naturally will have tiers if they're defended in the same division i.e. men's singles, women's singles, men's tag teams, etc.


Own_Explanation_1516

I think the idea is to blend the upper midcard and top tiers, so you will get a guy like Darby or MJF who can challenge for either, which will help bring the TNT title on par with the World Title. I also think it should be called the TNT world title, kinda like the World Television Title, or the Intercontinental Heavyweight Title. The name differences don't help making them seem equal. But My guess is they have the TNT title on guys who could easily slip into the main event, like a Miro, and guys like Cody, who got the belt after losing his world title match. I also think it's hard to present them as equals, but I also have a hard time viewing wrestling as if it's real, and wins aren't determined. That for me makes it feel like belts have no real value, if the winner is predetermined. They are more props to me


Fernandingo

Totally get what you mean. For me, the World title's value is derived from the fact they're deciding to put it on top-level, main event guys. Jericho, Moxley, Omega, and now Page are being held up as the top guys in the company when the decision is made to give them the belt. Now if the World title was won by Marko Stunt and the TNT title by Bryan Danielson that's a different story.


Own_Explanation_1516

Not a fan of the Marko Stunt Monster Heel Run where he runs rough shot on all of AEW


Your_Personal_Jesus

Not really. If you're the AEW Champion you get treated like the face of AEW. So main event PPVs, get the front of the posters, etc. If you win the TNT Title, you genuinely get treated as the fact of TNT. You main event a lot of the TV, get a lot of TV Time (usually more than the champ), get pushed by the TNT Social media etc.


Fernandingo

>get a lot of TV Time (usually more than the champ) That doesn't seem true whatsoever. Miro and Sammy have not gotten more TV time then Kenny and Page.


Your_Personal_Jesus

Sammy has been on TV more than anyone since he won the title, people just dont count it cause they don't like the American Top Team stuff.


Fernandingo

How much of that time was dedicated to the TNT title and not being in the background and occasionally getting a few lines in a completely separate feud?


okayfrog

I mean, AEW hasn't laid down a strong foundation for a women's world title. They've got a lot of work to do and I believe a women's midcard title could help since it means a big time women's match at least once every two weeks. Once more women start having more big matches, it should start to work itself out regarding which women should be in midcard and which ones should be in the world title picture.


Your_Personal_Jesus

It'll be booked like the TNT Title in that it'll be mostly outsiders and younger talent. They're gonna book it exactly like they did the NWA Women's Title. Remember that? When people were arguing that AEW booked that better than their own title? AEW booking women's titles as a midcard title isn't the problem. The issue is the fact they don't know how to make a women's feud feel like a main event issue (and I'm not sure if they want to tbh which is probably the problem).


Affectionate-Fly4831

Fully agree with this sentiment.


SnuffShock

First off, I don’t think the TBS title is a midcard title. It is like the TNT belt— it’s a showcase title. It should be used to showcase both the title holder and her opponent. It is to be used to elevate the entire division by having banger matches on tv regularly, some of which spin off into feuds. Second, the idea that there is a midcard and upper tier of wrestlers that are discrete and don’t overlap doesn’t really make sense. The idea that some people qualify to be championship contenders and some only qualify to be midcard contenders isn’t how the TNT title is booked. Is Miro a midcard guy? He held a midcard title (according to you) and lost, then lost a shot at the world title. Malakai Black? CM Punk? Third, AEW has done a very good job of demonstrating who the top women in the division are by… having a tournament that clearly lays out who places where in the hierarchy. First, ranked competitors got a bye so it assumed that they are the upper tier of the division at the start of the tournament. All of those wrestlers are potential contenders for Britt Baker’s spot— which is the point of the rankings. Which also means that they are naturally in the mix for the TBS belt as well. Shida is a former champion. So is Riho. Deeb is a former NWA champion. Conti just had a championship match. So AEW has just established 10 women as being the pool for both titles. Any one of them can be challengers to Britt Baker, any one of them can be TBS champ, and anyone below them in the pecking order has to go through them to get to the belts.


Affectionate-Fly4831

I fully agree that their are certain wrestlers like Kingston or Miro who can cross over to both belts. I also agree that the tbs and tnt belts should be moreso "showcase" belts instead of "midcard" so I'll concede there. But my main question still stands. While there are exceptions to the rule, most of the people who challenge for the TNT title won't end up in a feud for the world title. There is still a clear division that most wrestlers who challenge for the tnt belt are below the world title. So my question is still other than Baker, Rosa, and possibly Shida, who can clearly only compete for the tbs title and not the women's world title?


SnuffShock

I think that question is silly. There isn’t a division between who can *only* challenge for the TBS belt vs who can *only* challenge for the women’s world title. That is not how any of the booking has worked so far. All of the women I have mentioned can do either. And all other women, from the first round of the tournament on down to women wrestling on Elevation have to go through them to get to the belts, unless they directly challenge the TBS title holder. So, for example, Kiera Hogan isn’t going to be in the world title picture unless she beats a few of the women I listed (Rosa, Deeb, Cargill, Soho, Nyla, Statlander, Shida, Riho, Conti) but she could be on tv the week after the tournament wrestling any one of them for the TBS title because that’s how that title works.


Affectionate-Fly4831

Well that's where we just disagree. I believe the TBS title should be secondary to the women's world title. I consider the tnt title important, but definitely not more important than the men's world title. If any women can go for either belt then I don't see the reason of having 2 singles belts.


SnuffShock

I don’t think a rigid tier system does anyone any favors. It just makes the booking stiffer, less fluid, less adaptable, and risks being incoherent. AEW has laid out the stakes for each belt, has demonstrated how they book towards them, and provided a pretty clear pecking order for how one goes after each title. I’m not sure what else you want except maybe discrete boxes to group the wrestlers in. I’ll pass on that, thanks.


Own_Explanation_1516

Jade Cargill is top level, she is that bitch


Keinichn

She's really not. She's getting the treatment that wrestlers get when they have a look that prints money but can't wrestle that well: Lots of promos and really short matches. It's how you hide talent that's still training.


Own_Explanation_1516

And talent like that has won belts before. I don't disagree, it's just that she IS that bitch


LilyWhiteClaw

The women have the same top 5 the men do. Those are the people that can challenge for the top title. Of the wrestlers you mention, None of Shida, Hayter, Deeb, Conti, and Ruby are in the top 5. But as you say I could see all of them as TBS title holders.


justincorrect

Aside from Baker, who are the other 4 above Shida? Rosa and...?


SnuffShock

At the start of the tournament, it was the women who got the byes: Rosa, Nyla, Jade, and Statlander. And since she tapped Shida out, Deeb is probably on that list too. That’s not my personal list, that is just based on the ranking/booking.


Tampabaybolts4

Who cares


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shadowrangerfs

They used the NWA women's belt last year and it was pretty much their secondary belt. They proved that they can make a secondary belt work. Plus, if you book it like the TNT title and have open challenges, you'll keep the belt fresh. Imagine if one week, Mia Yim shows up and challenges for the title. You could do it like that.