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It's been known since Edge's return that he doesn't really sell tickets. He's a popular name with wrestling fans, but not a serious draw. The rest of their issues however are just shitty booking, misusing or firing good talent, and terribly produced shows.


And it shouldn't be a controversial take. Guys who move tickets are in the upper echelon. Back in 2009 when Jeff Hardy was the face of Smackdown, house shows were having issues selling tickets and this is the same Jeff Hardy who was outselling Cena in merch.


Definitely not controversial, you can really count those types on one hand across the past 30 years. Hogan, Cena, Rock, Austin, and maybe a handful of others in temporary time periods? But to consistently sell out arena's or move tickets on your own is something definitely only reserved for one in a million types of wrestlers. Also, it doesn't take away the fact that a good product will push tickets much more consistently. If the product is good, people are more inclined to pay money to watch it, regardless if there's a 'ticket mover' on the card (that's only a force multiplier at that point).




I think a lot of people sell tickets sometimes. What really set apart the primes of Hogan, Austin, etc. is that they sold tickets pretty much everywhere, every time.


I mean, my point still stands. Jericho Vs. Omega was a one time dream match that brought in a shitload of western fans to watch NJPW. But any other week/month, neither are on the level that they simply sell tickets on their existence alone. Kenny Omega is a top 5 wrestler, but he's not a guy that will sell automatically, neither is Jericho. Currently, there's honestly nobody in wrestling that will sell out consistently on name draw. Give people a great match, they'll obviously buy in. But there's no-one that will sell every single month, regardless of what's being given. In their primes, the likes of Hogan/Cena/Rock/Austin/Flair would sell tickets if people knew they were going to show up. They didn't need to know what they were doing, people would buy to see them regardless of what happened. Those names are freaks, massive exceptions to the rule. And in the end: A good product is much more consistent in selling out even when you don't have a one-of-a-kind name draw. What /u/GargamellTheMarlok says, but he does it in less words.


I dont think he compares to those names but Kenny's run isn't done and I do think a lot of the tickets aew sold in the early days were ti see Kenny


That’s almost impossible to prove and frankly I doubt that from a ticket selling perspective Kenny was THAT big of a deal. Like he sure as hell didn’t hurt, but I just don’t see AEW doing dramatically worse in terms of ticket sales without him. I say this as a fan of Kenny.


I don't think it's just Kenny but I do think Kenny and the Bucks were huge draws for the start of aew


WWE went from selling out the Barclays 4 nights in a row a few years ago, to not selling out one night over the SS weekend, then getting over drawn by AEW in the same city few weeks later


Summerslam and a random TV show in December are two very different propositions but I take your point.


Those shows also had many many out of area fans who came into town on travel packages for an entire weekend of shows, including Takeover. Survivor Series is easily the weakest of the 4 big PPV events and wasn’t really sold as a weekend attraction like those SummerSlam shows. Also, the SmackDown on Tuesday was never sold out.


The math isn't that hard. More people are passionate enough about AEW to attend the local live show than they are about WWE to attend that local show. NY is always crawling with tourists and "out of area fans", this take feels very childish


To be fair, we're still in a pandemic and money is still tight for alot of people. PPV's always do great.


Doesn’t seem to be impacting AEW all that much


AEW tickets may be cheaper?


They were at first. However once the sales started to slow, WWE ended up lowering the cost of tickets and included a buy one get one free deal. However none of those were still enough to catch up to AEW in this particular case.


The WWE tickets were cheaper on a seat to seat comparison by almost 50%. Also WWE were offering buy one seat get the next seat free for selected seats. Edit: Please don't downvote the guy above me. It's actually a fair question.


It's fine, this is Reddit. People here don't understand questions and think it's all sarcasm.


Then WWE are over charging for their shite product.


Honestly, going to RAW is so boring. You feel like an extra to a TV show and spend so much time waiting around for a commercial to end, or some back stage segment that you can’t hear well because they didn’t pipe in the sound right. WWE shows should be free the way they are ran. Imagine charging that much to go to a taping of a sitcom?


Then wouldn't wwe have sold out this raw since they were offering bogo lol


If PPV’s do great then explain Survivor Series.


Put out a shitty product, you get a shitty turnout. It's as simple as that.


They don't have much incentive to. They're still making record profits in spite of how awful their shows are. Unless somehow their next TV deal blows up in their face I don't see anything changing.


At the same time, if you're showing up to the arena either way and you're employing a creative team, there's no harm in putting in an honest day's work. Between "creative has nothing for you" and Vince rewriting shows on the regular, it's yet to be made clear why every writer on staff wasn't a part of the budget cuts.


the weird part is that it wouldnt cost tham an additional money to produce a better show. its not like theyre saving money by not caring, if anything theyre massively hurting themselves long term by driving away fans. the problem, as is often said, is vince. the shows are made to appeal vince because vince believes his vision is shared by the audience which it clearly is not. but the guy has a hard time acknowledging that and will ride his ship until the bitter end.


Because it would look terrible to investors if they knew the reality of the situation. For better or worse, the product lives and dies because of Vince McMahon. If he dies or becomes ill, the shares would plummet without the appearance of a team capable of running the show without him.


If Vince dies or becomes ill, the stock will be affected regardless of whether or not there are a team of writers. Ignoring that specific scenario, investors would care as much about Vince and Bruce writing every show themselves as they care about the current haphazard way of creating the show now. As long as money is coming in, it's irrelevant.


Doesn't really matter what the investors think- if Vince is happy losing money, there's next to sweet f all the investors can do about it as he has the controlling shares.


Every writer on staff does the heavy lifting and then Vince waltzes in, reads it and completely rewrites. Writers are just middle men and you need writers for your television show - which is what WWE are nowadays. Not wrestling. Although tbf I feel for writers. Generally they seem like nice people. They don't deserve what comes their way


I mean evidently they don't need writers, and the Attitude Era was written by three people max. Let's assume they do need writers though, just to give them something for Vince to rip up every week. That's still a problem and a waste of resources that could be addressed with better writers.


"Millionaire that should be a billionaire."


He's a billionaire now despite a shit product, so I don't think this line stings as much as anymore.


The sentiment is still the same.


Yeah, nowadays, it would be more accurate "*The world's first billionaire that wasn't*"


It probably won't blow up given where the television market seems to be heading. They might not see the crazy increases they have been seeing, but they're going to get more. The thing that will happen is that AEW will get a deal much, much larger than their current one. WWE probably hates that, but realistically what can they do? Even if they fix their inconsistent and boring storylines (which are the root of the problem) AEW is going to have the revenue to increase budgets and compete for talent even more than it can today. Would we see a day when people like Roman or Becky Lynch can play the two companies against each other at contract time? I think that's highly possible.


AEW already has infinite money. It's an oft repeated thing that "vince is a millionaire who should be a billionaire" but the Khan family **already are billionaires, almost 9 times over.** AEW could run at a loss for 50 years and it wouldn't make a dent into their overall finances. It's purely a passion project.


They do not have infinite money for an investment that's bleeding dollars. It's pure conjecture that they'd be happy losing money for years so Tony can play wrestling mogul. That probably wouldn't happen. However, they won't have to do that (even if they are now) when the next round of rights agreements come to be. Their deals will likely be close to WWE deals. I would agree that if (say) Becky Lynch's contract came up in 2022 that they *could* open the pocket book for her and be happy paying for it outside their AEW finances, but sustainable business practices tell us absolutely nobody would operate like that indefinitely. That'd be like me saying I have infinite money for sports cars just because I could afford the payments for a few. I theoretically could, but it would be foolish. And the Khans aren't foolish. They want to make money and it seems like they will. Aside from TV deals, they will have the opportunity to put their PPVs on streaming at some point, which should be great overall more profitable. I would sort of expect that at some point .


I completely understand your point but at the same time I think you're underestimating just how large a billion is.


He could absolutely run it at a huge loss for decades easily, but he wants it to succeed


I am curious how the financials look for AEW for now, whether it is potentially sustainable as it is- I imagine eventually it would be, they're still in the investing & building phase.


I believe Tony Khan has said the only reason they are in the red at the moment was because of his investment into the AEW video game.


Hoping that goes well. Been a while since I enjoyed a wrestling game. Bought WWE SvR 2007 expecting it to run on my XsX but apparently, "full backwards compatibility" means it'll run whatever the Xbox One X did- oh well, only $7.


Like the last part of your post.. Hopefully this all changes when TV companies see how much value for money AEW is compared to WWE.


Yeah that's really intriguing to me.


I mean eventually companies will want to stop paying them for their shitty content but yea we are a long ways away from that. Unless there's a big Me Too or Cancel WWE movement that happens that soils their brand reputation. But so far they've been impervious to that.


I mean, why not have multiple streams of income. What if their tv deals do fall through? Live income would be important again.


Wouldn't take much to make them stumble. Three things stitching that company together, TV deals, Saudi deal & streaming deals. If they have any 2 of them hit hard, they would be forced to eventually change(I think they have enough in their coffers to keep them afloat at a loss for a while). As it is, the decline is slow enough that their existing model would be fine for years- something big would have to happen to change that.


no incentive? what about more $$ from ticket sales, future TV contracts, merch, sponsorships, etc. Its not that they don't want to put out a better product, its that they can't.


What do you mean shitty? Don’t you hear the crowd going bananas? You hear it right? *cues for louder crowd noise*


I really think AEW would beat WWE right now in most big markets in a H2H matchup like this. Big PPVs are a different story, but week-to-week, AEW is a much hotter ticket for people who actually like to go to wrestling shows. It looks a hell of a lot more fun on TV.


Right now? I don't think that's true. But Thurston in [September 2020 said that he predicted that AEW will likely overtake Monday Night Raw in the 18-49 by mid-2023, and that they may be pretty close by the end of 2021.](https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1305575740344238082?s=19) So far he's nailing that one.


It's easy to forget how early we still are in AEW's infancy. So much can change in the span of two years, as we've seen, who knows where we'll be in another two.


I didn't start actively watching AEW until Miro debuted. AEW is the number 1 promotion in my eyes at this point. I had hope for E's title run but they just mad him black Drew. Everything that made E unique has been stripped away.


> black Drew Drew Blackintyre was right there, man


He should've beat Roman plain and simple.


Roman's first real loss being non-title to a guy on the other brand gives so many interesting possibilities. They simply refuse to develop any of the characters in his stable for some reason. The heel has to (ultimately) lose to payoff and keep things interesting but Roman's arc is going the complete opposite direction. When he does finally put someone over (and who is even left?) many will have moved on from WWE entirely. Such a waste of talent.


Well go blue talking about the softballs being tossed wwe way. Imagine Big E talking shit from the other brand? Never having another interaction. And that just festers in Roman's head. Hell have Big E show up as a "guest" on smackdown in the box seats . Talking about how he wants to watch Roman's fight but then show big e leave before his entrance happens. That could either lead to a double turn or let Big E have the win again.


I would be happy with E just being allowed to be E at this point. I don't like serious E. I want gyrating, rolling down the ramp E back :(


To put this into context with WCW, we're 2 years or so into AEW. This would be 10 months after WCW split from the NWA and Sting was having his first run with the world title (fun aside, this is 3 months after RoboCop saved Sting). To think WCW wasn't being spoken about as competition until 94 at the earliest when Hogan signed, it's insane how well AEW has done.


Gonna be interesting to see what happens when they move to TBS and get the West Coast back properly, it feels like next year there will be proper competition in the demo.


Yea I think people are underestimating the boost they could get on TBS. The lead-ins are so much better than the movies TNT runs, they get nearly 2 million viewers on Big Bang Theory reruns.


I wasn't even thinking about the lead-in, I'm not American so I don't know shit about that, I was just thinking that their September ratings were great and they beat Raw twice, so when they're back to a normal situation, they'll be back to that level. A good lead-in is even better.


What, you don't like the ending of The Accountant for the millionth time?


That's your lead-in, my lead-in is [going to this link](https://www.fite.tv/search/?q=Dynamite).


I still don't understand that ending.... Fair to the movie I've only seen the last 5-10 mins of the movie


Lead-ins exist in all countries ratings. Its not just an American thing. The most popular shows on TV will have something positioned afterwards designed to be sampled by an audience too lazy to switch channels. Smackdown did 4 million first hour, 2.5million second hour about 12 months ago on a taped episode because it started right after the NFL.


I know what it is, I meant that I don't know anything about the lead-ins on TNT and TBS specifically. Interesting fact about SD though, hopefully AEW gets a small boost.


>proper competition So they're gonna be on at the same time finally?


NXT was. Ended badly for HHH.


*Yeah. Competition with NXT is what they're striving for.*


They did it twice this year already, so it's a very real possibility, and I'd argue they'd have done it a time or two again if it wasn't for the west coast going live and those few Saturday Dynamites in October.


Brandon is talking about ratings, and the other poster is talking about attendance, two very different things. AEW outdrew WWE for the month of September, even if you took out house shows and raw and just compared it to smackdown. AEW outdrew WWE by a lot already in NYC that month with WWE at MSG and AEW at Arthur Ashe. MSG can fit 18k for wrestling but WWE only sold like 12k while aew sold 20K for Arthur Ashe. They would have had more people in the Boston area too, but were in a much smaller arena and WWE was at the larger Dunkin donuts center in Providence less than a week apart, and WWE only barely beat them. AEW was sold out for months, if they had been at TD bank who knows how much they would have outsold WWE there, where they had 8k the month before. So head to head they have already been beating them, and often they have to go to lesser places because WWE blocks them from going to the main arena.


He actually said early 2021. Typo? Because we missed that already.


Yeah my bad. I misread.


The beginning of the MonWednesday Nights Wars?


The way the tv shows are set up sounds exhausting. Like 20 mins between matches. Lots of commercials. I could never go to a raw/SD show. It would have to be a ppv/house show where the pace would be quicker. A few matches less than 5mins doesn’t sound exciting


i mean hasn't roman appeared on the last few raws? they've def been using him to advertise raw for the past few weeks at the very least


Which is probably not going to work well when he is a heel. They need a major babyface to counteract with a popular heel, but they don't have anyone built to his level of drawing power.


Thats because they were all released lol , maybe they'll learn.


Its so weird. Like even when HHH was at the peak of his Reign of Terror, you atleast had Shawn Michaels as the babyface counterbalance.


We're building up all this heat for.. nobody. Maybe The Rock.


But what’s the actual point of bringing The Rock back? He wins? He needs to drop the title back ASAP to carry on his Hollywood career. He loses? Roman goes over one of the greatest ever with zero pay off in mind. Either way it’s a complete waste of the talent who work there full time who might be deserving of a Wrestlemania main event. It’s absolutely peak WWE so they’ll definitely do it.


the point is: you get The Rock v Roman Reigns on the poster. they are selling performances, not stories, as hard as they try to say otherwise. it's why they don't bother to develop too many people or don't care about firing people in the middle of their push.


Excuse me, they're selling *moments*, and they haven't tried to deny it in years. Owens vs. Rollins was based on Owens getting his fucking Wrestlemania Moment™.


He wins, then loses the rematch, the "heat" is back with Roman and we start this dance all over again for another year until they water it down enough that it doesn't feel so important


I'm thinking bringing one of the greatest superstars of all time and one of the most popular stars in Hollywood back for Wrestlemania might not be a terrible idea.


They couldn't even get him on a Zoom call for the big 25th anniversary gimmick at Survivor Series. By the time this match is rumored to roll around he'll be 51 and out of the ring for almost a decade. Rock doesn't need it. And also, after the Hercules fiasco, can studios even insure him to bump? That film was 2013, Rock's twice the star now as he was then.


Lmao. Nice revisionist history. When HHH was burying everyone, most stopped watching because it was boring and a waste of time. Every wrestler got buried.


How is it revisionist? Unlike Booker T, RVD and the rest of the victims of the shovel Shawn Michaels was always kept strong during the Reign of Terror. He was the only consistently major babyface during it all.


Kevin Owens can be face in instant, but he's not a wwe corpo, so probably won't be him. There's been so much they've botched in wwe the past several years.


And hopefully he won't even be in the company in 2 months.


Their top 2 stars of the companies are heels right now (Roman and Becky). They have not yet built up another main event babyface that is on their level. Bianca was close to their level after winning the Rumble and become champ at WrestleMania and then they cut her reign short when Becky returned. Now she's cycled out of the title picture. Big E has Rollins and KO coming after him for his title. And somehow I fear that Big E is more likely to lose.


And Roman being around prolly means it's time for big e to job again. So a big Babyface won't happen anytime soon


The brand split is meaningless from an outside observer. I can’t imagine “Smackdown star showing up on Raw” is really that big of a selling point.


No. He was on one before survivor series. He wasn't even at this one, unless it was dark.


Goodwill with fans is at a near all time low right now for WWE so I ain’t surprised


But I was told that AEW was in the mud because only half a million people watch their secondary show that airs at a terrible time on a terrible day.


Tony K. also said their "secondary show" was going to be the equivalent to Dynamite.


Triple H said AEW was not competition. He's right as HHH is a nobody and Tony Khan is a real booker who makes money and ratings.


>Tony Khan is a real booker who makes money and ratings. How's that working out for them on Friday nights? Or Wednesday nights, for that matter.


Wednesday notes are great, actually. Frequently the number one show on that nite, rivals raw in the key demos, drawing 2 to 3 times the expected number of viewers, regularly topping a million viewers. Yep, doing great.


>rivals raw in the key demos, drawing 2 to 3 times the expected number of viewers, regularly topping a million viewers 1. Ah yes. The MonWednesday Nights Wars. 2. What are the expected number of viewers? Has anyone from Turner ever confirmed? 3. They *were* regularly topping a million two months ago for about a month and a half, and 18 weeks, occasionally, over a two year+ span.


Why can't you just be happy a non-WWE promotion is doing well?


Because in the 21st century, we have to associate big corporations with ourselves. An insult to XBox, Pewdiepie, WWE, the Chicago Bulls, Nike... that's a grievous insult to you as a person.


Why are you all over this thread being a weirdo


Because he’s not a mark!


The answer is in another comment of mine.


Ironic username


Needle moving backwards


Eddie Kingston was right.


What did he say?




The Roman Needle moving comment just keeps getting more hilarious. Even cena was drawing after a decade of the Wrestling Jesus push


Cena stll draws. He sold out the 9/11 msg smackdown show. Moved about 6 thousand tickets.


Cena had a huge impact on WWE ticket sales this past summer. Especially for the house shows.


That big dog certainly has a big bark. Not a whole lot of bite though.


Tbf, Roman never said WHICH direction he was gonna move the needle.


Something else to note from WON is that WWE rely on spending quite a lot on local advertising to move event tickets while AEW don't spend anything and rely on social media to spread the word. Therefore AEW is likely to be more profitable on live events despite mostly having smaller venues and lower ticket prices given the overall lower costs they have.


That's because of their fanbases. WWE has always catered to mass market / casuals. They're not going to be on the internet searching for wrestling forums or wrestling social media. That's why they try so hard to get The Rock, or Brock Lesnar back for example. AEW fans are all in hardcore fans. They'll be on forums, they'll subscribe to WON, watch all the associated YouTube shows, catch all the crossover references etc.


Well it depends. I'm much more casual than that. I actually have yet to watch dark. The only hardcore thing I do is browse this subreddit. I'd go to an AEW show if it landed in my town and tune in weekly to Dynamite and occasionally Rampage. No E shows either. I think that's another appeal as well, AEW can pull in more neutral parties with the product it puts out. Better shows that honestly look more fun to attend. I don't need a motion sickness patch to watch Dynamite.


My example is putting people in two broad categories. I do think there is a grey area, where you would fit in for example. AEW is doing much better there with signings like Punk, Bryan etc.


I recently heard a local WWE ad on the radio promoting Smack Down. My husband pointed out that the old ads used to say the names of the wrestlers who are on the show. This ad didn't mention any names. Because the featured wrestlers either went to RAW or got released. Which would make the ad incorrect or outdated. We concluded that it's probably easier for everyone to use the same ad over and over again.


AEW wrestlers appearing on indie shows as well will have a big impact. The fact that you can see them at a local $20 on the door show has a knock on that you get to know the wrestlers and then support them back for supporting your local show And just the extra social media and word of mouth from aew wrestler at nwa, gcw, etc etc


*Time to lay the tarps*


I am the tarp, you don't want to lay me I am fake crowd noise and you'll have to play me I am unwanted tickets, they won't even steal me I am opposite hardcam and you know you can't reveal me


It's all about the tarps, and where to lay'em Nobody is coming, I guess I'll just pay'em


Sorry this is dumb what are the tarps?


*Its not our product, it's the customers who are wrong.*


It's worth noting that RAW tonight was set up for about 8,000 people or something, and earlier today they had sold about 5,500 tickets. AEW has it set up for about 12,000 and has sold around 8,500.


They dont open the whole arena until the side opposite hardcam is filled. Once they get near sellou, theyll open more sections. They aim to make the arenas look filled on Camera. Its a very old trick and all wrestling TV companies do this including AEW.


Setups constantly adjust based off ticket sales. Follow WrestleTix and you'll see that.




No. They would set up more if they sold more.


No, they'd open up more sections for sale if there was enough demand.


Remember everyone, WWE definitely is NOT overbooking that show because they are trying to compete with AEW in that arena. It's just a pure coincidence. Roman goes to Raw sometimes, it's totally normal!


It is super weird to me they had 2 title matches and had zero advertising. Also super weird they did Owen's v Rollins with the stip to be added tot he title match without building it the week before.


I'm sure others would have posted about this, but wwe making the crowd areas without light, especially during promo segments seems designed to hide the lack of crowds of late..?


Hmmm are people finally speaking with their wallets after no Rock at the Survivor Series?


WWE consistently lies to fans about appearances. I feel like WWE exists now only out of loyalty or ignorance, or a combo of the two.


This is why sticking to stipulations and not treating you’re fans like idiots is important. You can’t trust them to put on a good show for you, you can’t guarantee the matches won’t be virtually identical to the week before, or that the things they advertise will happen. They’re like a bad movie series . I’ve seen the first few so I’m probably eventually gonna get to seeing the new one, but I’m not going out of my way to spend time and money on it when it’ll probably be a let down


It's the children who are wrong - Vince, probably


According to WrestleTix's own numbers, WWE sold 27,460 tickets in the NY area over 9 days. Seems to be more poor venue planning than anything.


They were in NYC just last week. If I just saw them within a 60 minute drive 7 days ago, I wouldn't go either. And this is from someone who's driven 2.5 hours to go to Tuesday night SmackDown after a three hour raw the day before, just because.


It's the new York metro, not Wichita Kansas There is like $2T in GDP and 20M+ people within a 60 minute drive. I get over-saturating it. But this is the NY/NJ metro. It's huge and *can* support it. The product just sucks. Especially in "smart" markets


AEW has only been selling about 100+ a week the last few months. Hopefully they can do some promotion and get a solid walk up. I doubt 10k will sell. All u know is it will get louder then wwe.


anyone know what the prices are for the same level of tickets for both shows


Ticket price were pretty similar except close to ringside where WWE tickets were much more expensive. It’s also worth noting that WWE cut a fair number of ticket prices by 50% back on October 18th.


wow that aint good for the E shouldve pushed Balor Vince!! now you are paying the price


WWE had $15 lower bowl and buy one get one free.


When they initially went on sale, WWE was a bit more expensive for floor and lower-level seats, but the rest of the arena was fairly comparable in price. [Here's a chart from WrestleTix on October 2nd] (https://twitter.com/WrestleTix/status/1444468364940820480/photo/1) that compares the two. However, after a couple of weeks WWE cut their prices pretty significantly. [By October 16th, here's how the prices shook out between WWE and AEW](https://old.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/qadcd6/wrestletix_about_wwes_ubs_arena_nyc_show_just/hh2eh3r/?context=3), with most-every section being cheaper at the WWE event than the AEW event.


Too many NY shows in a row. Plus, the UBS has been a traffic and parking shithole since opening a week and a half ago so they def didn't get much last minute ticket sales.


That's what happens when a majority of your audience is just old people and kids. Old folks just wanna stay home, and kids can only go if they convinced their parents to take them. Also explains why crowds suck so much in WWE nowadays; a good chunk of it is disinterested parents and kids that barely know how to react to what they're seeing and hearing.


You're underestimating the importance of appealing to kids.


Very much so. It's critical to their success now and long-term.


Which is ass backwards because what percentage of kids have a CC to buy merch or Peacock or even are allowed to stay up past the first hour of RAW or a PPV on a school night


Oh, I know; but kids are spoiled nowadays.


Guys I don’t know if this has been said yet but I’m starting to think bad finishers and painful dialogue aren’t draws


Why would I go see Roman and care? Nobody can beat him except Lesnar and that's how it's setup. After that, no clue who beats either of them so I guess they feud for eternity.


For the people in the know about ticket sales year over year and how wwe does against competition. How big or small of a deal is this?


I follow Wrestletix pretty closely. If this helps, according to them: * Smackdown draws a average of 8,028 since they came back from COVID * Raw draws a average of 7,042 since they came back from COVID * AEW Dynamite draws an average of 6,331 since they came back from COVID So... this is pretty big for the New York market at least.


I think it would be important to note that AEW traditionally does smaller venues.


Thanks for the information man !


I think the difference is AEW runs smaller arenas so percentage wise they’re more full on average than WWE


Sometimes, sure, and ticket prices can vary pretty considerably between the two companies, but we have an example of those variables being removed in the OP.


Perhaps, but none of these shows are selling out regularly. AEW sold out last week, but that's not a super common thing to happen. So I'm not sure the size of the building matters that much.


A comment higher up: > WWE went from selling out the Barclays 4 nights in a row a few years ago, to not selling out one night over the SS weekend, then getting over drawn by AEW in the same city few weeks later


Thanks dude


isn’t NY WWE’s home market?


New York? Nah, you're thinking of Riyadh


_rap airhorn_


Yo, listen


Technically yes. But AEW did give Arthur Ashe Omega/Danielson. I'm sure that swayed a LOT of people.


That show sold a ton of tickets even before Danielson was announced.


Punk and Bryan debuting were also the worst kept secrets on the planet at the time too.


It was also our first show where we didn't have to go out of our way to Jersey or LI or something like that. I think they would've gotten a huge number anyway though but maybe not exactly the number they had with that card.


I'd pay extra to not see Roman Reigns.




Funny most of this sub was conned into the Reigns heel run being some kind of masterpiece. Everyone wants it over already. Shocking


It was brilliant at first, specifically with the Jey Uso stuff. Over the last couple months it has been getting very stale imo.


I haven't watched WWE in years and I agree with this. I would say there was a period of several months where I was really looking forward to seeing Roman clips on here.


That's rough


Until AEW runs in the Middle East these numbers don't mean anything in terms of money and profit


It doesnt seem like that big a news story. WWE probably knew that being in NY for so many shows probably depressed their market a bit. Anyone who wants to make this AEW vs WWE is reaching. AEW desperately wants an AEW vs WWE battle, but WWE doesnt seem that interested.


They can feign disinterest all the want, they still have multiple instances of trying to undercut AEW whenever they can. They aren't above this at all.


But it’s also disingenuous to not point out them repeatedly doing well in Barclays in the same area a week ago. I dont know how many tickets they sold, but they are still doing well in the NY area. Just one too many shows. As a fan, I’m not interested in getting into AEW vs WWE back and forth. I wish other fans wouldnt let twitter fools like this guy get them sucked into the same arguments.


For the purpose of a direct comparison like this, how either company did weeks previously isn't really relevant. That doesn't mean the WWE is a sinking ship or anything dramatic like that, but the fact remains that the WWE is, for the first time in decades, finding themselves in competitive situations with another company. That's interesting to analyze. If you feel like you're above discussing it, it's pretty easy to avoid getting involved.


The raw after survivor series did not do well at all, sold about 6k. And survivor series wasnt a sell out. Aew has sold more tickets overall in ny this year. Wwe will pass them with the holiday show at msg.


I wouldn't say they desperately want it, but they are pushing to be seen as in the same league as WWE and why wouldn't they. Negotiation with tv deals, sponsors, and other corporate shit will be boosted if they convince people AEW is a major brand and a way to do that is to position themselves as an equal or superior to WWE in anyway they can. Doesn't mean it can't be eye-rolling sometimes.




**All** pro wrestling is sports entertainment.


And as the WWE shows, not all sports entertainment is pro wrestling.