AITA for charging 1 daughter rent but not the other?
By - hungryformacncheese
If you want your comment to count toward judgment, include *only ONE* of the following abbreviations in your comment. If you don't include a judgement abbreviation, the bot will ignore you when it looks for the top voted comment.
Judgment | Abbreviation
-- | :--:
**You're the Asshole** (& the other party is not) |**YTA**|
You're **Not the A-hole** (& the other party is) |**NTA**
**Everyone Sucks Here**|**ESH**
**No A-holes here**|**NAH**
**Not Enough Info**|**INFO**
#[Click Here For Our Full Rulebook](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/index)
#[Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. The younger daughter is working for you, instead of for a company like your older daughter. She has a job -taking care of you and the house and the pets and that works for all of you. There is nothing wrong with asking the older daughter to contribute in another way - money - as long as you are all comfortable with the amount. Equal isn't always fair.
That’s a good last sentence for me to ponder on. Thank you! Older daughter is on a very decent salary and we charge her £250 / pcm which isn’t enough to leave her short.
Your youngest daughter is essentially a live in carer, have you spoke to her about claiming carers allowance? It’ll provide additional household income or even just allow your youngest daughter to have a little extra spending money each month.
Also; claiming for carers allowance is an “acceptable” gap in terms of employment history so when she is ready to job hunt she will not be penalised for having such huge gaps in her employment history.
I was going to suggest this too. Though she might not get much as she works too it might be worth it just to help supplement her income a bit.
As for judgement, NTA. Sit down as a family and discuss openly. I personally feel you’re being very fair with both of them, and they may well feel the same!
The one who takes care of them doesn’t work.
Ah thanks for the correction, got my wires crossed there! She’ll be able to get the full amount through carers allowance then.
Even though both parents work? I am in the US. It will surprise no one we have nothing like this.
Edit: Am dumb and can’t read. I’m not really sure what the situation would be with two working parents, as all those I know who get carers allowance are caring for people who cannot work.
We do, to some extent.
My mother-in-law's elderly mother suffered paralysis on one side of her body after a debilitating aneurysm over 2 decades ago. She had been getting proper care and treatment from an assisted living facility over the years until a year ago, when her health started declining and the family decided it was time to bring her home so she can at least be comfortable surrounded by family as she lived out her final days.
My sister-in-law quit her job at the time to be a full-time caregiver to her grandmother, and through a state-level application process was able to be paid by the state (Medicaid perhaps) for being the appointed caregiver alongside a little help and oversight from local hospice.
The income didn't truly replace the wages she made via the job she previously had, but it was something.
Attendance allowance? Or is that just for the elderly?
Really great points
This is the part that stuck out to me. It's a practical decision for you all now, but make sure that she doesn't get stuck unable to support herself should you and your wife pass.
I would also watch out that you arent allowing your younger daughter to do all those things for you at the expense of her own individuality.
I know that you are in constant pain, and I understand that it is very helpful, but just make sure you arent letting her do it because its conveinent for you, as it might be super harmful that she doesnt have to take her proper place in society and develop
£250/month is an absolute bargain, even at a parents place, especially near London. It sounds like your daughters are fine with this arrangement so definitely NTA.
Charge both daughter the same rent but pay the 21 year old using the 22 year olds rent money for services around the house so she can use it to pay her rent. End result is the same but you can say they are both paying equal rent.
This is needlessly complicated as the system works fine. I think it's perfectly fair to charge rent to one who earns a monetary wage and not to charge the one who doesn't.
£250 pcm is unheard of cheap anywhere in Britain now. You couldn’t SHARE a bedroom in London for that price. She will know this. At most explain to her how you came to that decision so that she’s clear it’s not favouritism but there’s no question she’s getting a better deal living with you than elsewhere by an unattainable amount.
Is the work your daughter does for you worth 250 a month? Because it sounds like it, in which case it seems fair.
Mate, that’s nothing for London prices. She should be saving herself a fortune if she’s getting paid London wages.
Damn, I live in London with my boyfriend, in a smallish apartment, and pay more than double that! NTA
Well, yeah, it is more expensive to have your own place rather than to live with your parents -you are comparing apples to oranges.
Except it's not my own place and my mother would charge more rent than that, too.
It doesn't seem like you need that money. What I suggest you do is what my father did, when I got a job and was still living with him, he told me to put 300€ a month into my savings account. It's money I can't access easily, but is there if ever I need it, and it simulates rent as I don't have that money on my checking's account. It's a good middle ground to keep your daughter down to earth (not having an extra 250£ to fuck around with) while helping her out in the future.
I wish that’s all my rent was 😂 but yeah, definitely NTA, no one is here. She’s earning her keep instead of paying it like your older daughter and that’s fine
NTA. Charge them both the same mount of rent, but pay the daughter who helps you and your wife out at least as much every month.
Or leave it as it is.
It is nice to recognize your daughters help in the way you are doing.
The work the younger one puts in more than makes up for the rent. If the older one has an issue do the math for minimum wage for the amount of hours she puts in for cooking and cleaning and such and see who is getting the better deal. Even just 1 hr of cooking a day, at minimum wage 8 pounds, is 240 a month.
who here is the asshole? I think the best vote would be NAH!
I think you mean NAH not NTA
Both daughters are contributing to keeping the household running, just in different ways. I’d go with NAH, though, because it doesn’t seem like anyone here is TA.
I agree except I think you have it switched - fair isn't always equal. She is treating the daughters fairly - they both have to contribute something to the household. They just aren't contributions that are equal in kind.
I dunno. Depending on how much household and care she gives a week, and given that in London she could expect to receive £12 an hour for it, if she working at home for more than 6 hours a week she is matching the contribution from her working sister.
i think it's more like NAH. no one reacted poorly and the 22 yo was perfectly okay w paying rent. really not sure who would be the asshole in this situation.
Who’s TA then?
FYI/reminder - NTA implies that there is an asshole in this situation. Did you mean NAH?
I like that saying.
I think to add on to it, one could say, Treating two people/things equally doesn't always mean treating them the same.
The real saying is fair isn’t always equal. Things can be fair for everyone, but that doesn’t mean everyone is getting equal. :)
Yep. If the OP's family has a certain blunt sense of humor, the OP could say (with a smile, all in good fun) that the younger daughter is "working off her debt".
NAH- your one daughter is providing in a different way, that isn't financial. she takes care of you and your husband, and that is worth a "few hundred quid a month."
Thank you! Although I am the husband, my wife had a laugh reading your comment!
Look at me. I'm the husband now.
oh, WHOOPS! sorry :P :)
I’m sure the younger daughter is contributing more than £250 of service.
Yeah tbh sounds like OP should also be paying caretaker daughter a bit on top of the rent. Sounds like she has both earned it and will need it at some point when this arrangement ends for whatever reason.
I was thinking that as well. Maybe a bit she could put toward work training or moving out eventually.
Get certified as a home healthcare assistant while she's doing it anyways or something.
Agreed. I would call this NAH, but if anyone is being treated unfairly it's the daughter not being charged (monetary) rent. It would probably be more fair to charge the older daughter a higher rent and pass the money on to the younger sister.
I'm not saying they need to do that. But they are subsidizing the working daughter with a very low rent, and if they were to hire someone to do what the younger daughter is doing for them it would likely cost them more than food and board.
I'm not against family helping out family, I'm just arguing that removing the nominal rent of the older daughter would not make the situation more fair.
Both parents are working. She is not caring for them full time.
NAH. They each contribute to the home in their own way. And as long as they are fine with it I don’t see any issue.
Thank you. I believe both are fine with it, but I think my wife would feel more comfortable if we changed the current agreement.
Maybe you can calculate the value of what your stay at home daughter does (look up what you'd have to pay an outsider to do all that for you).
Then subtract anything of hers that you pay for, that your other daughter has to pay for herself.
The remainder should be your daughter's "salary".
Then subtract her rent from that salary and see where you're at number wise.
I wouldn't be surprised if it works out that you technically owe her money if you're trying to be equitable between the two daughters.
This. She’s acting as a live-in maid, pet-sitter, gardener, personal assistant, and cook. That labor is worth a lot more than 250 lb per month.
Bloody hell that's a lotta weight per month.
250lbs of what?
You guys seem to have a nice, close-knit family full of reasonable people, so I'd suggest maybe just talking to everyone first. I come from a similarly close family and we've had to have some of these kinds of conversations. They're tough and very, very uncomfortable but I think it's the best way to come to an actual fair arrangement.
For the record, I think your current arrangement is totally fair since your younger daughter is doing so much around the house. I'm in the US so it's hard to figure out an exact comparison, but if my quick exchange rate Googling is correct, the services she's providing to you are probably worth more than her sister is paying in rent if you were to hire a caretaker. They would be in my area, and I live in a very low cost-of-living area. But to put it in perspective, a couple hundred quid is roughly $250 USD, and it costs $300+ a month just to hire a daily dog walker for one dog (about $10/walk). We have an aide that comes in a few days week to do the kind of chores your daughter does for my grandmother (cooking, light cleaning, running errands, help with some personal care as needed which isn't much for my grandma), and we pay about $900/month for her. And that's really on the cheap side of things; average cost for that kind of stuff in the US is around $2,000/month.
I know comparing US costs to UK ones is kind of complicated, but it's my only frame of reference and I just wanted to point out that this kind of work is really frequently undervalued when it's done by family members, but it still takes up a lot of time and energy so if you can compensate her for it, you should. That's why I think your arrangement is fair--she's basically working off her rent.
Edit: to give an actual judgment I say NAH. I think your arrangement is fair, but I understand your wife's qualms, too.
> You guys seem to have a nice, close-knit family full of reasonable people
Yeah that was my first reaction, really—like, oh, I was expecting the sister to be upset, but she's not. That's a well-adjusted child there, so congrats, /u/hungryformacncheese! Lots of children would be making this situation needlessly difficult, so you probably did something right raising them. It seems like everyone here except your wife just instinctively gets that your non-paying daughter is providing a service and earning at least the value of rent that she's saving. (Incidentally, I think a little bit of rent-free time would be fair regardless of work, just because she experienced trauma and sometimes one kid needs more help for reasons outside their control.) NAH.
I think you should all sit down together and talk about it.
If both daughters are ok with it then great. If younger daughter is helping out and expected to do so, whilst paying daughter gets more freedom from hello around the house then it's a fair deal. Older daughter is paying not to do the housework and caring duties, and younger daughter is taking those on in lieu of paying.
Yeah I agree with most of what I've read thus far. NAH. As long as both of them know the situation, and why you've asked one to pay rent and not the other. Nothing wrong with what you're doing, I'd just make sure everyone is on the same page.
Fwiw, Google tells me 200 quid is ~$240, so older daughter is getting an absolute steal on rent price lmao. With her groceries and bills being included, she probably realizes she's got a pretty sweet deal going here so she doesn't mind at all.
NAH, although the current set-up is a little worrying. Why do "both girls have expensive tastes" if only one of them can afford them? If your "grocery bills and electricity bills are high," why do you think anything over a "couple hundred quid" a month would be "cruel?" Surely that would barely cover groceries?
I do think if one is working full-time and the other isn't working at all it's reasonable to charge only the employed one rent. I'm just worried that you're using the 21-year-old as a live-in carer, and not encouraging her to have any ambitions of her own.
Thanks for your thoughts! My 21 y/o is very happy where she is right now, like I said- she has no plans to go into work at the moment and unfortunately university dealt her some very rough cards. She is in counselling and we are indeed supportive of her steps that she’s choosing to take at her own pace :)
Thanks for the detail. I won't probe any further into the trauma. If she's happy and you're happy, that's fine. You all sound like good people.
I appreciate your kindness. She’s well loved and well looked after, and I am thankful for your comment!
NTA but do encourage your 21 year old to start planning her life in some way. Either through work or education, she is letting precious years slip away by not doing anything.
Her mum and I do try and help her along, and I’m all too much in agreement with you about precious years. Another, separate conversation to have with my wife might be about encouraging her more than we have been. Thank you for your thoughts on this!
I recommend looking into getting a carer for you and your wife part-time so that your daughter knows that you will be okay without her. It sounds like she's been through a lot and is recovering at her own pace which is great, but it's very easy to fall into feeling obligated into being a carer for your parents, even when it's totally unintentionally, and sometimes saying that you'll be fine isn't enough - you have to demonstrate that by taking the initiative.
I also think it's NAH but I could see a perspective where your older daughter felt less favoured, I think making the younger's contributions clear and explicit will go a long way to alleviating any hurt feelings. Although, it doesn't sound like your older daughter has the option of taking over some of these tasks instead of paying rent or anything.
Seriously, I fucked off living at home working some lame job until I decided to go back to school at 24. Now I'm 26 and can't help but always think I could have gotten so far in life by now had I applied myself at a younger age.
Career: stay at home wife
A life choice but not a career
For some it’s a career, because they don’t have any other ambitions
It is a worthy life choice but it is not a career
One daughter is contributing financially, the other is contributing thru other helpful means. Even if you are financially stable enough not to have to charge either rent, there is still nothing wrong with doing so.
NAH. You sound like a really nice family, and I think this decision is totally fair.
You said that the 22 year old doesn't mind paying rent and the 21 year old seems to help you guys out a lot and earns her stay.
I might suggest speaking with both daughters, separately, and get their thoughts and opinions on it.
Since the 21 year old does seem to help out a lot might I suggest paying her for her work and charging her rent. I know this seems silly since you give her money and she gives it right back but at least this way she is "working" allowing her to also see what it's like paying bills which is a good skill to develop. This way you are charging both rent and that may feel fair to everyone.
End of the day, if it's not broke don't fix it.
This is a fantastic suggestion.
YTA for letting your 21 year old stall in life because it is convenient for you. In five years her older sister will have a career, independent life, maybe married, and she will be the unemployed adult child living at home taking care of mom and dad. It isn’t what you’re intending but that’s the future.
Hey, read OP's responses. She had a traumatic experience at university and there's nothing wrong with taking a little bit of time, it's not like it's a race. She's in counseling and OP wants to encourage her to live her life. The parents aren't using her at all.
NAH. This arrangement sounds perfect for everyone involved. I don't see why any of your daughters should complain. In fact, if anything, it sounds like the elder daughter got the bargain since getting dinner served every night plus all the other chores are easily worth a few hundred quids a month.
They are both very sensible young women! My thanks to you for your comment!
That's a NAH then
If you actually need the 22 year old's rent and she can afford it, it's fair because she can work and it sounds like she'd rather work than care for you.
....What are you going to do for the 21 year old when you're no longer around and she has no work history?
If they have no problem with it, they probably realize why one of them gets asked to pay and not the other. As far as I see you guys operate pretty well so NAH.
You're not TA for not being 100% equal in your charges. But maybe YTA for being so ok with your daughter's complacency in life.
When you and your wife pass, what will she do? Do you know how hard it will be for her to find employment that will provide comfortably for her when she hasn't worked much, if at all during her adult life?
NAH but I would be careful with issues of favouritism (just in case) and also helping your oldest to save up in order to get her own place someday bc London prices are absolutely no joke , and I’m sure that’s part of her plan if she’s on a decent wage
NAH. If your daughter felt slighted about being asked to pay rent, I might change my judgment, but it sure sounds like everyone is happy with the arrangement because everyone benefits. I would imagine the working daughter saves quite a bit on rent/expenses by living at home, and the other daughter clearly contributes to the home in other ways and doesn’t have to risk work she’s not ready for. You get both some modest support for expenses and help with work around the house. Everyone wins!
NAH, I do not think that is a problem since the 21 is also paying in another form.
NTA at all. Your 21-year-old daughter is paying her share with all the house work and errands she does. She doesn't have a job, so her help towards you can count as work. Time is money and all work has value! Don't feel bad. Your 22-year-old daughter is also financially stable to help with home expenses and it also helps her to learn to organize her money for when she eventually lives on her own.
NAH. If it's all working out for you, dont worry about it. I believe the working daughter should be contributing and the one helping at home is doing the same.
INFO: Would you charge both daughters rent if they both had a similar paying full-time gig? If so, have you made it clear to the 21 year old that the work around the house & care is in lieu of her paying rent?
I think if your eldest daughter is saving up to get a place of her own she should not be charged rent, makes it much harder to move out when you’re simultaneously paying rent, and can’t save as much as you’d like to.
What if you had your younger daughter tot up the number of hours she spends on chores for you (cooking, driving, shopping, cleaning), and figure out how much you'd have to pay to hire someone not related to you to do those things. If it's more than your older daughter pays in rent, consider raising her rent or paying your younger daughter the difference.
YTA, don't call it rent if you're gonna only charge one daughter and not the other. Call it covering house expenses and charge your other daughter just as much (while giving her an allowance), or just halve the rent between them.
YTA- to your younger daughter for encouraging her to not pursue a career and look after the household instead. How is she ever going to learn how to be independent when she is literally being a “kept” woman at the beginning of her adulthood? How will she fend for herself when you and your wife can’t pay for her to live? She needs growth and goals...
>(she has no desire to look for a job)
Think about setting her up to support herself in some way besides caregiving. If you're not paying her, she's not saving for herself in anyway, it doesn't sound like, and that makes her very vulnerable in the long run.
YTA stop letting your child just sit there and do nothing, she's 21 and she has a whole life ahead of her she should be getting a job and moving out by now.
At first, when I read the title I was like YTA - "Yeah, may parents did this. Where I had to pay rent but my siblings lived rent free. Now we don't even talk, and etc etc etc."
Then I read the parts where one child works a job and pays rent, and the other doesn't work but does everything, household wise.
I'm seeing this as they're both paying rent.
YTA. So you're punishing your older daughter for being responsible and having a job? That's pretty crappy.
How is charging one's adult child a small rent a punishment?
If you're talking about the unequity between her and her sister, her sister is doing work that would cost far more than the rent if it were paid. So...maybe they can pay the younger sister, and then take rent out of that.
Soft YTA, but not because you're not being "fair" but because you're setting up one of your daughters for failure if you let the status quo continue for too long. You're not doing your one daughter any favours in letting her get away with not working at all. She could start trying to put herself out there for a part-time job somewhere and get 10 hours a week or less so she still has lots of time to help out and can also contribute to her own upkeep with a smaller token amount of rent. (Someone else suggests a carers allowance, which sounds like a good idea too!) Whatever money your family is living off right now won't be an option for her forever-- you three are living off what, your disability and the other sister's rent money? She needs to prepare to go back into the workforce one day, even if that's not today, and you should consider how you can facilitate that.
NAH. Doesn't sound like there's a problem since neither girl objects.
Your 21 year old does "pay" in the form of labor.
NAH since the one daughter is basically acting as a caretaker for you and nobody is upset by the arrangement
NAH but if you don't actually need the money from the older one then it would be nicer and fairer to charge neither of them.
NAH. Its a little strange but it seems like the one not paying in $$ is paying with physical labor instead so its probably fair.
NAH. If everyone's happy, who cares? One can afford it and is happy to contribute financially. The other contributes a different way and seems equally happy.
NTA. Less than 300 hundred a month for rent in London? That is a bargain from someone paying over 1k.
The other daughter does work. She takes care of the house and that should be taken into account OP.
Both daughters sound lovely tbh.
P.S Encourage the 22yo to save towards the future. Buying here in London is hard.
I'm going to go against the grain and say that YTA for enabling your 21 year old to not be independent. It's nice that she helps out around the house, but she needs to learn how to live and support herself, because she can't do that forever. Maybe pay her, and then charge her rent from that? At least that way she can learn to pay bills and keep a budget.
Everyone seems good with it, and the younger daughter is essentially working for room and board by helping you and your wife.
NTA - My husband works 70 hrs a week right now and I don't work outside of the home. And we don't have kids. What we do have is the need to go through his late mother's estate and so that's my job. Also, I cook everyday, pack him a lunch, and bring him a beer when he comes home. From the outside it might look uneven, but we see it as paying me to care for him to care for us.
NAH. Your girls sound great. The 21year old pays rent by helping out around the house and cooking dinner. Your 22 year old clearly makes enough to help out and is doing so.
NAH. Different circumstances between the two daughters justifies the difference in paying. They're both contributing in their own ways.
I think this will be unpopular (we will see, I like to state my judgement before being influenced by commentors) because at a different point in my life I would have said you were being unfair.
However, as I have gotten older and fully understand what goes into maintaining a household, I have realized that there is more to contribute than just contributing in the financial sense. You two girls are contributing in different ways that they feel comfortable with, I think it works.
Edit: correcting judgement
YTA. You are setting up your younger daughter for a full “failure to launch” situation. If you need aid, pay for it. She needs to start taking care of her own ADULT needs instead of yours.
At your next family gathering the 22 y/o is going to have a little too much wine and explain in a drunken speech that your favoritisms and handholding of her little sister is going to make her resent her for the rest of her life.
If you don’t think for one second charging the responsible one with a job and the slacker with no job, house cleaning your own home is chore not a job, isn’t the most ridiculous thing ever I am speechless.
I am a 20 year old girl with two jobs and I pay for my own car, my parents felt that since my younger sister helped do dishes more that it was an even exchange for her not to work. Absolutely not.
I am sorry for the rant but dear god man how can you be so blind?
Edit: girls fight silent wars, you may not realize or see until it is too late to fix the damage
Um did you even read the post and comments? The younger sister has been through some trauma and is recovering, so I really don’t think it’s right to refer to her as a slacker. And she doesn’t just clean, she does everything! That’s not a chore, that’s work. She is working for rent, while the sister gives money for rent. Both are contributing. OP also stated that the rent is very low and apparently the sister is fine with it.
YTA for letting your 21 yr old daughter slave away for you and be your carers instead of going somewhere in life. She'll resent you for taking away her best years.
I know the conversation isn't about this but I believe you should be thinking about what is your daughter (21) going to do in a couple years with no career or experience. Your daughters could pay for someone to do the things 21 is currently doing and she could move on to work or study, for her sake
I’m really on the fence here - I’m sorry but doing the grocery shopping, cooking and looking after the cats isn’t really working - those are the basics the younger daughter would be doing if she lived alone. Maybe if she could also learn to manage the rental property that might placate the older sister?
I don’t know the nature of the traumatic incident, but most people can’t just put their life on hold over an ordeal, and in fact I’m not sure it’s healthy to do so. What are her long term plans? Is she never going to get a job but instead care for you forever? Is that what she wants? Does that mean she will never pay rent? Does that mean she gets the house if you two go into a home? You need to iron out this stuff, even if it’s just a plan for the next year.
I think you all need to sit down and have a civil family meeting. If you can’t discuss it without getting heated get a mediator in, they aren’t expensive.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***The following is a copy of the above post. This comment is a record of the above post as it was originally written, in case the post is deleted or edited. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
I have 2 daughters, one is 21 and one is 22. The 22 year old works full time in the financial district of London and is always out the house. The 21 year old left uni a few years ago after a traumatic ordeal, but she drives and she does all the shopping, cleaning, etc for me and my wife as well as walking our 2 dogs and looking after the cats. She’s also handy in the garden and cooks us dinner every night.
We are both disabled after a car accident a few years ago and although we are mobile we are always in pain. On top of that we both work so all in all my daughter being at home (she has no desire to look for a job) is working out as a blessing for us at the moment as she provides a measure of security.
We decided to charge the 22 year old rent a few months ago, just a couple hundred quid, nothing overly cruel. We have 2 houses, one we all live in and another we have on rent, but the money that we are charging her is going into the general household pot since both girls have expensive tastes and so grocery bills and electricity bills are high. The money from our 2nd home on rent goes into savings.
My 22 year old doesn’t have a problem at all with paying the rent, and both girls are close, both with each other and us. However I’m not sure if I’m being unfair to 1 daughter over the other, as my wife is now starting to rethink the rent decision and thinks it would be better if we charged neither.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA if it works for everyone now, BUT:
BOTH of your daughters have a job, one in the financial district, one as a live-in maid/dogwalker/gardener/cat-slave/nurse(?).
To always make it fair for everyone, you look up the pay/cost for everything your daughters need and work for. Just you and your wife in secret beforehand!
There is an average amount of rent for the older one to pay in your area, plus I dont know if she also gets her meals cooked/clothes washed, food shopping done etc.
If so, the older one also has to pay for the younger ones service done to her.
Also you have to calculate the hours your younger daughter works for you. Such services can get expensive, much more when they are sometimes provided overtime aka 24/7, as you both are disabled and may need them sometimes at odd hours?
Do the math and I have a guess that the younger one is significantly underpaid (although I have no idea how much rent the older one pays?).
Expensive taste is completely on their own, I mean they have to pay for themselves if they want something out of the ordinary which is normal for an adult.
You make sure you have the younger one on an official payroll (the older one on a lease if you want), pay her salary, healthcare and taxes on time etc.. You need to make it clear to her that she has a job which is highly valued and appreciated and get her self esteem up. Hell, I think there is a demand of professional, discreet housekeepers not only in the royal family, you also have a high valued shool in England for this kind of service. Nothing wrong with beeing a housekeeper at all!
You talked about trauma in her university years and now she needs to find her worth by starting "small" and work for you, it is a job! I dont know if all over europe is the same, but in my country (Austria) you get financial help if you are disabled and with this you can apply for a caretaker who also can be a familiy member(who gets paid for like a normal job), if even for a limited amount of hours, at least it is something.
Both of your daughters are still young and figuring out their life, but one day they are more mature and thinking about the past and you do not want to feel any one of them less appreciated/underpaid/overcharged.
The reason why I picked your posting to answer to is: I also was in a similar spot as your younger daughter, my mother and stepfather offered me to be a caretaker for my grandma. But they chose to calculate the lowest possible full-time income in my area, reduce it by the average rent I would have to pay (although it was just a bedroom with 24/7 caretaking and no freetime/privacy) and also reduced the weekly shopping for food/toiletries for both me and my grandma. Also I would not have been provided with a car for errands, I would have had to ask my mother to take us anywhere, so my overall income would have been significantly lower if I had just applied to social aid (and would not have to care for any one and also have my own flat). I was so desperate I nearly did not recognise the imbalance of this deal. Only I talked to my uncle who laid it out for me made me realize how disrespectful it was. I had to break my grandmothers heart and was in and out of it in 48 hours. I still resent them for trying to trick me and my grandmother (intentionally or not). They ended up with a caretaker who cost them triple the amount they were willing to give me.
You seem like a nice family and at least you are reconsidering your thoughts and calculation which is an important step in the right direction, I whish you all the best!
NAH. One works outside of the home, the other works in it. Both are happy with the arrangement so there’s no problem.
Nah. The labor your "stay at home caretaker" does is worth money. And honestly she can make good money in the home are field if she chooses to go into it.
Your "outside the home working" child is contributing in a different and more socially acknowledged way is all.
But I’m a Yank in the USA. So I might not count. :)
so the lazy one with no plans mooching off the parents gets to pay nothing while the actual responsible child gets punished for actually making something of herself? this is why you feel something within yourself saying something about this is wrong.
Mooching? She had a traumatic experience, is taking time off, and caring full time for her parents in exchange for Room and board
NTA call around and find out how much you would have to pay an outside person to do all the cleaning, shopping, cooking, and gardening that your 21 yo is doing. It sounds like she is doing the job of a home health aide who helps elderly and disabled people with chores and shopping. You'll probably be very satisfied that she IS paying her way in chores, even if she isn't handing you cash.
And the other one is working and doesn't have a problem paying the rent you asked, so no worries here.
Nta your youngest daughter is working instead of paying rent and it’s not like your making her pay a thousand a month
I think the entire arrangement sounds fair as the one daughter helps keep house for you and your wife, cooking cleaning, taking care of regular daily errands and it sounds like she does this because she completely understands the predicament with the chronic pain as a result of an accident. She’s being compensated for her daily work in the home by not charging rent. The one daughter is seldom home but has a pretty decent job it sounds like and with her not contributing as heavily with household chores/errands/upkeep, the modest rent charged sounds fair in the circumstances.
Obviously it’s entirely up to you and your wife, but it really sounds quite fair with comparing the two girls and their contributions. The alternative is both not living at home and having to keep their own place tidy/meals/errands etc, plus significant rent etc.
NTA. But what if 22 year old decides to quit her job to do what 21 year old is doing so she doesn’t have to pay anymore?
NAH. Think of it this way: How much would you have to pay a housekeeper/cook to do the chores your younger daughter is doing now? Surely it's way more than the rent you charge the older daughter!
If you feel badly about not charging her rent, then start charging her the same rent as your other daughter, but also start paying her for the work she's doing around the house, or at least the work over & above what you'd normally expect her to do.
NAH. It sounds like a good deal for everyone. One daughter gets free rent and helps out in return, while the other gets to pay a little rent but focus on her work. You get to have your kids around every day and one cares for you and the household.
It sounds like a wonderful way to live, no need to change it.
NTA and no one seems upset, so no worries.
Lots of comments already but just want to add that it's almost always better to keep things separate.
Your kids are old enough to owe rent. Charge them both equally, since they both equally live there.
One kid is providing you with services that you feel have value. Pay her that amount separately. She is earning it from you.
It's just a lot cleaner this way.
I know you’ve already received lots of great feedback but I wanted to respond to let you know my family is in a somewhat similar position.
I am 23 and just graduated with my masters degree. I have a well paying finance job in the city but am living at home to save some money and because I really enjoy my family. I am not home often as I do work quiet a bit, so very similar to your older daughter.
My younger brother is 20. He lives at home and is taking a few classes at the local community college. College was a big step for him due to some personal things, so he has gone at it a little slower than others might. In addition to taking classes, he also helps my mom out a lot. In the past year she has had a hip and two knees replaced so for a lot of the year she wasn’t able to drive, bend over or get up the stairs easily. My dad travels a lot so it has been a blessing for her to have my little brother around to help her when she needs him. He does far less work around the house than your younger daughter does, but he is taking a few classes and works 15 hours a week, so it keeps him busy enough.
My parents do charge me rent for living at home. Nothing crazy at all, but a little something. They do not charge my little brother. In no way what so ever have I thought this situation was unfair. I would have never expected them to allow me to live at home rent free as I am an adult who has the ability and means to live alone if I wanted to. My brother on the other hand doesn’t, and for right now that’s perfectly okay! My parents are financially able to support him and he provides company and physical help to my mom when she needs it.
For my family, this situation has work well and it sounds like it does for your family too!
NTA. If you decided to charge your other daughter rent she would have to get a job and would no longer be there to take care of you.
If you are providing her a home, food, etc and she is, essentially, acting as a caretaker for you and your household then I'd say that's a fair exchange and she is kind of working for you instead of someone else.
As long as the older daughter is okay with paying rent, with the knowledge that the other daughter is not paying rent but is acting as caretaker, then I'd say it's fine. If she's upset with it then you can consider a course of action to make things more fair.
She can take over some of the house duties so other daughter can get a job to pay rent,, or you can use some of the rent money from them both to hire a caretaker and it would come out of their "expensive tastes" money.
NAH. You sound like loving and considerate parents. If you are concerned, you could always discuss with the daughter paying rent and then base your decision on how that conversation goes.
INFO: How do the daughters feel about the rent arrangement? It definitely doesn’t sound like the older daughter is complaining to you, I’m assuming that means she’s a mature and intelligent gal who understands why this is the arrangement.
NAH. as far as i can tell, that daughter isnt paying rent so much as just funding the household, while the other daughter maintains it. sounds pretty fair to me
NTA. If you really want to charge your younger daughter rent, you should also start paying her for the work she does for you. That would be fair, but seems unnecessarily convoluted to me. If everyone's happy with how things are, then that's just fine.
YTA it must be a British thing but charging your child rent is absolutely disgusting. It’s near enough impossible to get w start in today’s economy and you charge them rent ? And you’re playing favouritism wow YTA and so is anybody who charges their children rent
I don’t see any issues here, you are teaching one daughter to be financially responsible with bills and the other to earn her keep and contribute by any means necessary. You are truly blessed too have such responsible non-entitled daughters at that age. You and your wife did a great job with parenting.
NAH, we have a similar situation at home, I am the one who pays and my other siblings don't, they are not employed which is fine by me.
NTA I don't think this is unfair. The younger one spends all her time helping yiu take care of your home (like a live-in caretaker) and your other daughter contributes in other ways.
Idk the financial enviornemt around there so I can't say if the amount you're charging is fair or not.
As an aside, you should really consider getting the younger daughter some mental health care. This might be fine right now but you really need to make sure that this situation isn't permanent and she can at least have the capability of being independant and making progress in her life. This doesn't have to be school or a full time job, but make sure she finds a good path for her life that doesn't revolve around you. You would be doing a disservice to her as a parent by not helping her work through those events and at least feel stable and safe enough to pursue some sort of future for herself. Look into getting her access to mental health professionals and maybe encourage her to take online classes or find some remote work or even just something she can be passionate about to occupy her time in a productive way (regardless of its financial benefits). Anything so she doesn't stagnate and become stuck until it's too late.
Both daughters are paying rent. One is paying cash and the other is paying in trade. NTA
NTA. Don't see it as charging one rent but not the other, see it that you are charging them both £250pcm but you are paying the 21yo £250pcm for full time care.
NTA, sounds like it works well for everybody.
But you should try to claim PIP if you aren't already so your youngest can claim carers allowance for you. It's not much money (the carers allowance anyway) but it will give her National insurance contributions which will count towards her state pension and any other benefits she might need in the future. Also if she does want to work later in life it will cover the gap in her employment history. I really recommend doing this so she isn't screwed over later in life for taking the time to care for you.
NAH- you’re essentially paying your daughter £250 a month to be your cleaner/cook/helper by not collecting rent. You should get her to claim carers allowance though, that way she can save.
NAH. It actually makes sense to charge a little bit so people have some skin in the game and don't take advantage. Ronald McDonald house asks people to pay $15 a night (the rest of the $75 covered by charity), but no one turned away for lack of money. Charging the nominal sum helps prevent abuse.
NAH. Your younger daughter is at minimum giving you 18 hours of labour a week, priced at a minimum at 7 quid p/h or 125 quid a week, far more than the rent your other daughter is paying.
Omg you don’t have daughters you have servants, you disgust me. YTA for that colonial attitude.
Nta, both kids are "paying" rent. Once with money, one with services provided.
NTA. If the 22-year-old isn’t contributing the way the other daughter is, she should pay.
You are showing genuine care and concern, with good reason. Your daughters also seem accepting of the situation.
If I could suggest a next step, as you seem uncomfortable making the decision - I would suggest sitting down to talk to them together, to explain how you're feeling about it. You'll only stress yourself out, otherwise!
Maybe you can all work out a suitable alternative!
NTA. It's only fair. One daughter does paid labor outside of the house and get rewarded with her own money while not contributing to the household, the other does most to all of the unpaid labor inside of the house. One already pays with her hands; the other should pay with a monthly financial contribution to the household.
I lived in the same situation except it was me and the next elder sister living in our apartment owned by our father. Since she was super picky about jobs and was unemployed, we divided it as me paying the rent and her doing the housework(with some minor tasks being delegated to our baby sister who was to occasionally hang out there), except it kinda broke apart.
NAH I had a similar situation when I was younger. It's not exactly the same as yours but maybe close enough for reference. I graduated university (undergrad) and started working while living at home. I payed rent while my younger sister decided to pursue graduate studies. Both of us chipped in for chores (her moreso than me) but I was okay with this situation.
In my opinion the most important things to do (which you seem to have done) is talk with both your children and make sure they are okay with it. This conversation should happen more than once (maybe bi-annnually?) since people and their circumstances change over time. For example, I had no problem paying rent while my sister was in school (and didnt pay) but I do think I would have been resentful if she didn't have to pay after having found a job. That's why it's important to talk and adjust as time goes by.
Mostly unrelated to your original question but I do have some unsolicited advice. I would recommend trying to get your daughters interested in budgetting and managing money. If you already have, great work! You can ignore the rest of this post :)
You mentioned that they both have expensive tastes which is a small red flag to me. It's important to learn to spend within your income and honestly this skill will affect their entire lives. Your working daughter should be saving a portion of each paycheck (IMO at least 20% and probably more considering her very limited expenses). People who don't or can't do this end up having a much, much harder time down the road. I know lots of people (and sadly several of my friends) who live paycheck to paycheck. 15 years of working and they're still as broke as when they were a student. If any unexpected expenses come up (car breaks down) they panic and have to scramble to collect the money since they have no savings. Since you live with and seem to have a good relationship with your daughters, you are in a good place to speak to them about saving income and planning for the future.
If she thinks it’s fair, NTA.
NAH I think a simple solution would be to charge both girls rent, Burt start paying your daughter. Then you can see how much work she is contributing, which is likely plenty for rent. However, if you don’t decide to go through the trouble of this, it is understandable.
NTA it seems fair and your 22 probably know why her younger sister isn’t being charged. Your 21 years old works for you (and her sister) in a way!
I also want to add that I pay for everything in my house because I am rarely home to take care of my mother and sister and I feel BAD for mot helping around. I want my sister to go to school without worrying about the money and want my mother to enjoy life for the rest of her life.
I think you’re 22 years old doesn’t care at all about this and/or even feel bad for not helping as much.
My father once gave me some good advice. Everyone in a household needs to contribute in a manner they can. That keeps the dynamic healthy. Contribute doesn't always mean equal dollar amounts. 1 of your daughters is acting as a caregiver. To get that kind of support would cost a lot. Your other daughter is working and can best contribute financially.
It's actually a fair deal.
NTA - it sounds like the daughter not being charged rent is paying her way by being your caretaker. That's a fair trade. If neither of them have a problem with the current situation, don't stress over it.
NTA if your oldest daughter has not said anything. If she does say something, try to mention the other ways her sister contribute. If it becomes an issue, maybe have her help pay "groceries" instead of rent. That way she is contributing to something her sister also contributes to (i.e. oldest buys groceries and little sister cooks dinner).
NTA. She is working at the house and "for" you and the other one is working for someone else. It's fair.
NTA if everyone is fine with this arrangement now, BUT:
Both daughters have a job. One in the financial district, one works as a live-in housemaid/dogwalker/gardener.
If you want it to be totally fair for everyone, look up the financial aspects of everything (just you and your wife first!):
If the girls are okay with the arrangement, i dont think anyone is the asshole in this. The younger daughter helps out around the home and the older daughter works outside the home so i think its fair as long as everyone agrees. NAH
NTA Both daughters are contributing to the household, just in different ways, one financially and the other through services. I can't help but think that not charging the 22 year old some rent would be showing your younger daughter that her contributions to the household have no value.
NTA. When my bf was 18 and out of high school his dad sat him down. He said if he wants to continue living there he would need to either pay rent or help out around the house. If the girls both understand the situation and are fine with it, no problem. I think you might just want to inform them they have the choice of one or the other in case they don't already know, mostly because I think that will take away any guilt you are feeling. It also lets the 21 year old know when she gets a job she won't have to stress about also doing a ton of chores, and the 22 year old know if she loses her job, she doesn't have to stress about rent.
NAH You should have a family discussion where you talk about this openly and come to a common agreement. If your daughters like the agreement, then I see no reason to change it.
250 for rent in London. Sounds beautiful to me, You've got a great family mate. Dont wreck the system now
NTA, but if it makes you feel better, charge the 21 year old rent, and then pay her for her services (shopping, cleaning, cooking, pet care, etc.). If the cost of one adds up to the cost of the other, then all is well. I'm sure that you and your wife will come to a fair decision.
NTA. One contributes through help around the house. The other will contribute financially. You may want to give her the option of contributing by doing chores, etc but there's nothing wrong with what you're doing.
NTA - one is paying rent, one receives room and board for their services around the home. She's cooking cleaning taking care of you, something that would cost more than a couple hundred quid if you used a service.
Charge them "both" but give credit for all the work that one does.. so her rent ends up coming out to nothing. NTA. But this seems like a fiction that creates value for her unpaid work.
NTA. The rule in my house was if you were in school, you didn't need to pay rent. If you were working you paid. And we had to pay a lot more than a couple hundred quid lol
I understand your concerns, but unless your rent-paying child says something I think you're OK. If she works in the financial sector, she should have appreciation for the value of things that aren't cash (e.g. assets, labor, etc.).
But if you really wanted to do something about it you could try this. Set rent for both children the same, but also offer to pay your daughter for helping you out around the house. And if it so happens that the amount that you pay your daughter for her services is equal to her rent, then that's just coincidence. You (and your at-home daughter) could honestly say that everyone was paying the same rent, which might alleviate any ill-will that might be forming, while still allowing you to show appreciation to your daughter who's helping around the house. But unless you get a real idea that there's a problem, I'd say leave things be.
NTA, but might be good to chat with them separately and then together and get a feel for how they both feel about it. When I was working and my brother wasn't I was getting charged rent and I was fine with it cause I had the cash to burn.
It sounds fair to me. Your younger daughter seems to "earn" her rent by helping around the house. If you're really worried about it maybe discuss it with your older daughter to make sure she understands and is ok with it. That way you can figure it out and don't have to worry about any bitter feelings down the line.
My family had a similar arrangement. In my house, we had a deal where you don't pay rent if you go to school. I worked a part-time job and was in college. I paid for my own car insurance, gas, maintenance, food, and various necessities. I had a car that was co-signed for, but I paid the payments.
NAH. If the daughters aren't complaining, then I so no problems.
NAH here. The OP stated he talked to his older daughter and she was cool with it. And the two are really not in the same situation. The you get daughter does not have a full time job and thus could not pay rent if she wanted to so she is paying her rent via a barter system. If she was not there chances are you would have to pay someone to do the tasks the younger sister is doing. So instead of paying money you are paying in housing and meals. There is nothing wrong with that nor unfair and the sisters have not done anything to make them TA so definitely NAH.
NTA!! they are both paying(as it were) rent, one of them just happens to be trading service for it instead of money. your system seems more than fair. if your wife want to stop charging the one daughter rent that daughter has to pick up half of what the other daughter is doing in the house. it wouldn't be fair otherwise.
NAH, and goodness, what a refreshing relief to see a happy, functioning family in r/aita for once. I wish you folks the best, you all seem to care for and respect one another so Im sure you will be a-okay no matter what crosses your path :)
NTA, it seems the younger daughter is paying "rent" of sorts in the form of household chores already.
NAH It sounds like you're being fair to both daughters. They are both contributing to the family, just in different ways unique to their own skill set. If everyone's happy with the arrangement, there's no reason to question it or change it.
\*edited for grammar
NAH. It sounds like this arrangement works out well for all of you. Would you have to hire help if the younger daughter were not there to take care of those tasks for you? If yes, everything sounds fair to me.