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CrushingPride

If Britain is truly going to reckon with it's history, a major step is going to have to be wrestling with the history of class warfare in this country. We're a nation that has historically had two "mainstream cultures", the posh and the working class. Prior to the World Wars, the poor in Britain have been brutally oppressed by the rich. You needed to be a property owner to vote in this country until 1918, and not just any property, it had to be past a certain value. The working class (and the peasants/surfs) before them were overworked, under-educated, starved, and in a few cases rounded-up and killed by the Ruling Classes. If you've been alive long enough to remember at least bits the 70's and 80's, you'll probably agree that working class people have a different culture to "posh people" (you can still see this today but this has declined quite a bit since around 2000 by my reckoning. This decline has actually come from the posh people wanting to act more like they're working class in a bid to be modern and cool). Part of this culture is submission, not to our betters, but to difficult life. "Think you're better than us do ya?" "Who does he think he is?". To my mind this is a learned coping behavior. Working class people of old learned to cope with their life by resigning themselves to that being how the world works. That attitude that came from coping with oppression has been passed down.


merryman1

From what I understand there was quite a shock with the onset of conscription in WW1 at just how physically unwell a large part of the population was. Prior to that no one really cared. *On the Condition of the Working Class in England* is a contemporary work of the mid 19th century which lays out just how atrocious conditions could be for those on the frontline of the industrial revolution. Kind of weird coming across familiar names like St. Helens or Sheffield only to be followed by detailed descriptions of how people working in various metal industries would invariably die of some horrific lung ailments in their early 30s from inhaling metal fragments from the grinders for 12 hours a day. Rationing in WW2 was not only about ensuring we had sufficient supplies, but ensuring that *everyone* had access to a balanced nutritious diet, and we pretty much immediately saw the massive social (and economic, and military) advantages in that one simple policy.


Truly_Khorosho

> Part of this culture is submission, not to our betters, but to difficult life. That's a fantastic way to put it. Our language and culture is littered with allusions to this sort of thing, from the whole "stiff upper lip" idea of being stoic in the face of hardship, to the fact that so many people reply to things like "how's things?" with stuff like "can't complain". It's like we're a society that aspires to the lofty ideals of an overcast day, where as long as it's not raining then everything's fine.


CrushingPride

Look at people's response to Brexit problems. A very common response is "yes there are problems but it's what people voted for". One reading of that attitude is that given the choice between wallowing in suffering and rocking the boat, a lot of people choose the suffering.


strolls

Not defending it, and I could write a great deal more about this if I didn't have to run to the supermarket right now, but following the 1884 Act 60% of men had the vote. I often think that the politics of today should be viewed through the lens of the 19th century - it seems obvious that everyone should have the vote, but it took a century to achieve it; throughout this time the public were largely supportive of the status quo. This ruling class at the time must've been conscious of the possibility for unrest, considering the French revolution of the 1780's. But they could get away with it - France didn't adopt universal make suffrage either, not until 1848. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representation_of_the_People_Act_1884


CrushingPride

Oh yeah, I know there was more stuff about voting, before and after 1918. In fact, having a University degree got you an extra vote until 1948. Arguably still not universal suffrage at that point.


SirLoinThatSaysNi

> Nation of bootlickers I think with a title like that I'm sure it's going to be a well reasoned and thought out article which doesn't resort to extreme and convoluted points to try and support its agenda.


ivix

Nakedly clickbait from an obscure magazine.


joethesaint

Sounds like it was written like a 14 year old Redditor


PicsAndOtherStuff

It's far from a uniquely English thing to "know one's place". Billions look to Mecca and Rome for guidance because their ancestors were conquered centuries ago by the same people they now hold in high esteem. Most former European colonies from Latin America to India still suffer from an inferiority complex in the presence of white people. As for oppression, we don't particularly like it and in fact have a reputation for liberalism, hence why we were a safe haven for people such as Marx, Mazzini, Freud and Napoleon III.


ivix

The magna carta being the foundation of modern democracy is lost on this airhead.


lithaborn

Not to mention the civil war, the peasants revolt, suffrage, the abolition of slavery, abolition of child labour, poll tax riots every time they've tried to introduce it....


mobjusticeCT

All those were perpetrated by entitled lazy elites who just wanted to disrupt normal peoples lives.


KitaClassic

Show me any country where one group is not higher - aristocracy, political parties, oligarchies, religions, corporations, or a religion.


edjamsantana

Now now dont go touching a nerve there mate. Every discussion i have had on this matter, since i have came to this country has ended badly. Short answer i have had on average so far seems to be some deep collective feudal trauma. Just look at how current British aristrocacy is structured or how for example you stand to have any chance at a tory leadership... its peerage this exclusive club that... Eaton, still people choose to elect them. Why ? Because for some reason people still confuse wealth and privilage with character, and tend to forget that just because you got a good education doesnt mean you have been well educated (see Jacob Rees-Mogg) . But if you tell anyone this they get offended.


CrushingPride

Posh boys are winning elections but that doesn't mean that the British public are voting for them. The Tories only got 43% in the 2019 election, and in fact that was their best performance in years. We have a lot to gain in this country form getting rid of First Past the Post. Really it's the only thing you should be focusing on if you want change in this country.


edjamsantana

43 is still an alarming number brother, but I agree with need PR soon.


JonnyArtois

We don't feel ruled over? We have a royal family which impacts 0% of our lives. Starting off with bootlickers though, shows its an utter trash source that doesn't actually care what the 'other side' thinks anyway.


Someone160601

TBH people like this think they’re so much smarter from the outset because they’re the ones challenging the system


No-Strike-4560

UK people : we hate unfairness, unearned wealth due to inheritance, the top 1% of elites, and when the laws aren't equally applied. Also UK people : I ❤️ monarchy. Some fucking confused people in this country ngl.


chambo143

I think that’s a complete strawman. Have you actually heard anyone say both of those things? If someone professes to hate unfairness, inherited wealth and the top 1%, then chances are they also hate the monarchy.


No-Strike-4560

Well for a start, my parents hold both these views.


nnc0

Here's some reading to get you up to speed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta Magna Carta still forms an important symbol of liberty today, often cited by politicians and campaigners, and is held in great respect by the British and American legal communities, Lord Denning describing it as "the greatest constitutional document of all times—the foundation of the freedom of the individual against the arbitrary authority of the despot".


Effective_Wolf129

> First drafted by Archbishop of Canterbury, Cardinal Stephen Langton, to make peace between the unpopular king and a group of rebel barons > it promised the protection of church rights, protection for the barons from illegal imprisonment, access to swift justice, and limitations on feudal payments to the Crown, to be implemented through a council of 25 barons. Neither side stood behind their commitments, and the charter was annulled by Pope Innocent III, leading to the First Barons' War. You provided a historical peace treaty signed between feudal lords and a king, what does this have to do with ordinary people? That's even ignoring that it was a peace treaty that failed and led to a civil war 1 year later and was annulled by the Pope. The Magna Carta was devised because the barons were tired of the King, John collecting excessive feudal payments, it was signed in 1215, in 1381 the Peasant's Revolt happened, because the peasants opposed the heavy poll taxes being levied on them by Richard II they wanted an end to serfdom and the removal of King Richard II so clearly it had very little relevance to the treatment of ordinary people living in this country.


restore_democracy

Ah yes, establishing the rights of the nobility.


CrushingPride

Only idiots wave around the Manga Carta claiming it symbolizes liberty. It's liberty for the feudal lords, not anyone else. And also the Magna Carta has almost completely been superseded in this country. Even if it meant something at the time, it doesn't now.


SpiderJerusalemLives

It set a very important precedent. The monarch is subject to the law. No more divine right.


steveos1011

People were happy with serfdom lol!!!! Our freedoms were fought for and hard won and required generations of sacrifice. Don't be dramatic just because lots of people watched the queen's funeral.


TheSwordlessNinja

I personally feel like it is because the majority do not feel the pain as much as another 3rd world country what does revolt (like Sri Lanka recently). It's enough for the hardships to be felt by a lot but not enough where it is fight or die if that is the right expression? Plus when you have a plethora of superficial items and services I think it makes people placid. Example, giving people the platform like Facebook to vent and share. You could argue a lot of the more developed world is like this (America, Germany, Australia). But from the history books I suppose there is reasons even if we agree or disagree with them. Romans invading was welcomed for example as the standard of living improved for many. The Medieval era was a strange one but I'm guessing indoctrinated with religion played a huge role. As a final note, I don't think capitalism is the issue. It's been going for two thousand years what we know of in the world. The problem is it has turned into gangsterism by mega corporations who get government bailouts and grants via lobbying and other shady deals. In other words, we work hard to spend what we 'earn'. They operate in a government socialistic setting where we foot the bill. I know it is from America, but the chips act is a prime example of this. As far as I am aware, the notion of passing it for national security was a farce. They are building factories outside of the country. I'm sure our country does similar shady deals (like the track and trace excel spreadsheet).


Maleficent_Solid4885

Capitalism is the only system to raise people out of poverty. How else can wealth be created


StupidMastiff

Wealth is created by labour, not by an economic system, the system just determines where the wealth goes.


Maleficent_Solid4885

No that's wrong.


StupidMastiff

So the USSR didn't create any wealth because it wasn't capitalist?


Maleficent_Solid4885

Not for it's people.


StupidMastiff

So the system determined where the wealth went?


Maleficent_Solid4885

Ah you're from Liverpool.


StupidMastiff

So the system determined where the wealth went?


[deleted]

[удалено]


gurufabbes123

It's the flip side of being orderly and having a country that historically works and remains stable. You can find enough other countries with constant strikes and protests that have not become better places as a result.


[deleted]

We've got a country that historically works very well for some people but not all.


gurufabbes123

Yes. Ours and many others.


[deleted]

Yes. Except we're not talking about other countries, we're talking about England. Our new government is controlled by free market zealots who seem to genuinely believe that removing the cap on bankers bonuses is going to help fix the cost of living crisis - it's probably worth discussing why the UK keeps electing people like this.


PossibleFar5107

Rich man in his castle; poor man at its gate. Its the throughly English way....


BroodLord1962

Show me a country where people are not ruled over by their Governments.


mousycatburglar

"Keep calm and carry on" aka if things get bad ignore it, take it, and dont complain


Khaleebi

That's a joke/meme, not an actual instruction lol


mousycatburglar

It's from the war


Khaleebi

Whilst a poster with the phrase was drafted during the war, it was not used, for obvious reasons. It's current popularity is because it has become a meme. It is a joke, not a serious statement.


mousycatburglar

It sums us up nicely though doesn't it


Khaleebi

Not really, given how many strikes, protests, demonstrations, and riots there have been.


mousycatburglar

Pff barely. Mainland Europe put up a decent fight, but not us. Things have gotten so awful here and we're barely pushing back. Keep calm and carry on.


Khaleebi

Things here are generally fine, certainly much better than in most of the world. For the small number of things that are not fine, people have fought back with strikes, protests, and demonstrations.