By - Valhallaof
I think if this is ordered then sword guy and Volcan would both be above arlo just because they're older and have more real combat experience
That makes sense actually, but it also depends if their ability potential is higher and so it was likely that they would be stronger than Arlo. I’d say Kuyo has a chance being above Arlo. Although, the last time I checked, Rei was a 5.8 before he died, so unless Kuyo got stronger after Rei died, then he’s probably close to Arlo. Valerie I’m not sure…
Arlo got his ass handed to him by John a few time and he rocked up a few high tiers. He has experience, also remi was able to keep up with volcan for a short time. So at least arlo would be on even footing with the two.
That’s true but kuyo still prob have better “real life fighting” experience where your life is on the line kinda experience
I agree with you except for two characters: I think Arlo is weaker than Volcano, and I think the white-haired man and Jane are (almost) on the same level.
For me, the order would be:
2. Mysterious white-haired man
john and seraphina are probably stronger than jane
Gonna need confirmation for that but don’t forget that john’s godly ability came from her
She may have higher potential but weaker than John. I think John got strong because of the way he was treated as a cripple, and his desire to be the strongest. And Jane might not have a harsh childhood as John had, so she didn't level up as much. For my guess, she is between level 5 - 7
But if she had this ability it means that she grew up in some kind of god tier family in a world where power is everything. John is strong but Jane might be stronger because she might have had guidance understanding and developing her ability from her parents and their wealth.
We can take sera for example, she grew up in a god tier family and is stronger then her mother because she pushed her to be stronger
As I said, this is my opinion. If you think you wouldn't have put the characters in that order then try making your own list. It might be interesting.
I won't change my list but people who have a different opinion should make their own to compare them.
i was just putting in my opinion based on facts given to us in uno?
This was not a criticism. I just wanted to encourage others to make their own list...
English is not my language so I may not have used the right words.
The only changes I’d make is Jane being the strongest tbh. I feel like there’s a reason why she’d be the likely choice to be experimented on, which is mostly that her ability potential and the kind of aura manipulation variant she has is likely pretty strong. Everything else seems pretty fine and makes sense. Just put Jane on top and it works (for me anyway lol)!
Agree, the authority's drug amp amplifies all aspects of an ability, instead of just the strongest,like John's does,
Her being weaker could be the reason she was chosen. The other guy might be too powerful to try containing.
Yeah that makes sense too, or her being the first with that ability
I agree with this for the most part, but I think John and Sera might be even. Sera undoubtedly has more pure strength, but John has ludicrous levels pf versatility. Also, if John copied the right abilities, he could reach what I call a "pseudo 10.0", meaning that his stats are temporarily at that level, but then return to a 7.5 due to the nature of aura manipulation. I also think Volcan is at least as strong as Arlo, if not stronger. We know that somehow she can use two abilities, fire claws and some sort of barrier. They might have different levels, with fire claws barely able to defeat Remi, but her barrier easily overpowering Arlo. Having your ability seem weaker would be quite useful for Ember as a way to lower suspicion and fear.
Good opinions. For John I’ll say that having 10 in all stats doesn’t make you a pseudo level 10. Stats deepen as you level and they don’t just stop at 10. For example Seraphina and her mom are both 10 her seraphina is faster. So a level 10 will probably be very deep in the 10s. I can agree with Seraphina and John being equal. Just interchange them if you will.
Idk man remember we still haven't seen the full limits of what his powers can and can't do, so saying he could reach a pseudo lvl 10 is a bit of a stretch
Saying he can't is also a stretch. We have seen no evidence so far that he couldn't.
I like to think John and Sera are on the same level or at least can/will be considering according to sera both of them were at the same stage power wise by the end of their second year, John just stopped using his and therefore his mastery didn’t increase as much. But even so there’s a lot we don’t know about johns ability, like can he copy sera’s? Can he amp sera’s? Both of those are critical factors in deciding.
True, I thinm in the future he could even surpass Vaughn, but as of right now he is generally on oar with Sera. He is usually significantly weaker, but can become orders of magnitude stronger under the right circumstances due to the pseudo 10.0 effect. I think overall aura manipulation is the highest potential any ability can have and may very well be the only ability to have achieved a 10(but that's just personal speculation).
Johns uncle looks like a beast, I can’t wait to see him in action.
I agree in almost every aspect. Only a couple changes come to mind.
1. I'd put Kuyo a lot higher. Like, above John. I've had this debate with a lot of people, so I won't go into why, but I think he's around a 7.7
2. I'd put Volcan above Arlo and equal to Leilah. I dont think an EMBER executive that kills vigilantes is gonna be weaker than Arlo. And Arlo seems to respect her a lot and, from the way she talks about him, I think she's stronger than he is. Plus, a Leilah vs Volcan fight sounds like a great idea. EMBER vs Spectre. So it'd work well if they were the same level.
3. Lastly, I'd swap Jane and John's uncle. It's implied that John's uncle and Vaughn will fight. Narratively, I think it'd be more interesting if Vaughn beat him in the 1v1, but had to leave the school in some other way. Meanwhile, I think Jane should be the only 10 in the series. She'll be the secret weapon character that's dormant for most of the season but, as soon as she gets to work, she destroys everything in her path.
Just my own thoughts. Everything else, I agree with. Especially Vaughn's placement. I've seen people argue that he's weaker than John, and that completely stuns me. The authorities themselves are scared of Vaughn. He's clearly among the most powerful characters in the series.
Hey! I know you said that you wouldn’t go into why, but I’m kinda curious about why you think Kuyo’s that strong. Not trying to start an argument or anything, just wondering
Alright, but as long as it doesn't escalate into an argument. They tend to stay on my head.
I think Kuyo is that strong because we've been given a lot of evidence to suggest so. Part of the evidence involves Rei, who was a 5.8 three years ago.
Kuyo used to be stronger than Rei, so I believe he was barely weaker than him 3 years ago. Maybe he was a 5.7ish. Him and Rei did vigilante training for two years. Blyke grew 0.5 levels in a couple weeks tops. That's already evidence that Kuyo may have grown 2 levels since then.
Secondly, let's look at the Kuyo vs Lennon fight and compare it to two fights: John vs Arlo and John vs Remi. Kuyo can two shot Lennon's disks (one shot if he uses both blades at once). That's impressive. Arlo has a higher defence stat than Lennon, and looking at the stats, I think saying Kuyo can 4 shot Arlo's barrier is more than fair. So this means a single hit would do a lot of damage. Probably crack it. Just like how John cracked Arlo's barrier in one hit. Furthermore, after the initial crack, John took several more hits to break it. I don't remember exactly how many, but it was at least 5 more. That means Kuyo already hits harder than John with Demon Claws, an offensive ability.
Next is John vs Remi. This comes down to one thing. Who had an easier time? Kuyo against Lennon or John against Remi. The answer is definitely Kuyo vs Lennon. If we focus on their second fight (near the season finale), we can see that Remi was able to dodge John's attacks and get a really strong hit in. She was also able to hold off his attacks for a decently long while. Meanwhile, Lennon was useless against Kuyo. And he's barely weaker than Remi. As I mentioned earlier, Lennon got two shot by Kuyo. Remi was able to tank two hits from John in their first fight. As for defensively, Lennon didn't get a single hit in. And he's not exactly bad offensively. His disks are fast enough that Blyke could barely dodge, if at all. So Kuyo definitely outperformed John.
So that in itself is evidence enough that Kuyo is stronger than John, but let's go back to how he's spent two freaking years doing this. He's definitely grown by at least 2 levels. I know Blyke grew faster than average due to him mimicking John, but "faster" doesn't necessarily mean "able to grow a quarter of your level 50× faster than you". Kuyo should definitely be at John's level by now.
So yeah. Those are my thoughts. That's why I think Kuyo is a 7.7
John is the last person you should be comparing fight difficulty about anyone. John is a 7.5 but his strength can vary so much depending on the abilities he has. If John had time manipulation barrier and healing he would have 10 in all stats and would beat the royals way easier than he did in that fight. But he had weaker abilities. And the difference between Lennon and Arlo may be 1.5 defense but that’s a big amount of defense since it gets stronger. And if you happen to be right and Kuyo slices up Arlo in 4 hits that’s 4 different times he’s taking reflective damage. And one hit of reflective damage is enough to break John and Seraphina’s arm. So after just two slashes he wouldn’t be slashing anymore. If you want an accurate comparison for Kuyo’s level compare him to Seraphina not John.
>If you want an accurate comparison for Kuyo’s level compare him to Seraphina not John.
Ok then. Sera one shot Arlo's barrier, but 7 shot John's. Implying that she was only able to one shot Arlo's by a little bit. Kuyo 4 shots Arlo's barrier. I'm not factoring in reflective damage because I'm focusing on actual power rather than other factors. Anyway, if Kuyo can 4 shot Arlo's barrier with an ability that definitely has a lower power stat than Time Manipulation, then the 7.7ish mark is fair. And 4 shots was being generous. I think Kuyo can two shot Arlo on the right day.
The difference between a 1 shot and a 4 shot is huge. And reflective damage is a major part of his ability and is also based on power. So even if he 4 shots Arlos barrier he still loses to Arlo. So a 7.7 losing to Arlo makes no sense. And he can’t 4 shot Arlo’s barrier. Being able to 2 shot someone with 7.5 defense doesn’t mean you can 4 shot someone with 9 defense. Stats go up so far as you go on that a minor difference means a lot. John had 7.5 defense and he was able to walk through Remi’s 7 power defense. So the difference between 9 defense is huge. And like I said previously he loses to Arlo quite easily.
I'm not gonna go into this argument. Especially since you're implying that Kuyo has grown, like, half a level after 2 years vigilante training. So let's end that there.
I’ve implied nothing about his level. The last time we even saw his level he was a 3.5 so you can’t even say what level he was when he left high school. I think it’s rude to start a discussion and then end it halfway without addressing my points. But you aren’t obligated to reply so thank you for the discussion
Thanks for replying! Your arguments do make sense, because yeah, Kuyo did take down a 5.3 easier than John took down a 5.4. Plus, Kuyo has done a lot fighting since going vigilante, so growth from that is pretty much a given. Though, if he’s that’s strong, Kuyo finding Volcan again would be a sight to see lol
Appreciated. Glad you actually acknowledged and understood my points. And yeah, Kuyo vs Volcan would be interesting.
I have each of them in mind for another EMBER fight though.
Volcan vs Arlo, basically guaranteed to happen eventually.
More interestingly, Kuyo vs Kassandra. The old Wellston graduates. They used to know each other. One because a vigilante. The other joined the authorities. I'd really love to see them meet again and fight.
but speed was a main factor i mean her ability is that she's like lightning or some shit so ofc she was going to dodge some hits
I read through it, and it still doesn’t make any sense to me. I’m not saying Kuyo hasn’t gotten stronger and he’s definitely at least on par with Leilah or even a bit more than that, but I think what’s making your explanation difficult to prove your theory are the fight examples you chose and also the lack of evidence on Kuyo’s side, specifically the lack of stats and ability level confirmation.
I do agree that Rei’s ability level was from high school since I recall uru confirming that was the last time he checked his ability level, and becoming a vigilante is likely to help them get stronger, though it also significantly depends on the kind of ability they have and the potential their abilities possess. The reason why Blyke grew 0.5 in a short spam is because he learned a completely new technique and is still fairly young, which is when, according to Rei, people usually have massive growth spurts, except for people like John who are late bloomers and grow at different rates. Also, just a quick correction from another comment, Kuyo was a 3.5 when he and Rei first met, but that’s only a slight difference.
Ok, your first example comparing the fights between Kuyo and Lennon with John and Arlo has some merit but it consists flaws in a few things. First, you’re overlooking the main difference between Arlo’s ability and Lennon’s ability: reflective damage. Kuyo would have a more difficult time destroying Arlo’s barrier because he also has to take into account the backlash he will receive from attacking the barrier head on and how that will affect his attacks further on, which is likely to make him weaker and so take more shots in breaking Arlo’s barrier. Also keep in mind, Kuyo was not injured and had the element of surprise on his side when he confronted Lennon, while John already had his arm slashed by Meili and then had his arm further destroyed by the reflective damage he received from hitting Arlo’s barrier, so it was going to take a lot more energy for him to destroy the barrier since one of his arms were shattered. Also, Blyke had already been fighting with Lennon prior as well as the low tier civilians, and even though I doubt that would’ve tired Lennon out from just the low tiers alone, fighting against Blyke likely tired him down, though if course this doesn’t make Kuyo any weaker. I just think this isn’t a good comparison.
Your second example also has some flaws. Remi dodged only two attacks before John got sniped by Blyke, and then John proceeded to get hit a few more times before getting a clean hit on Remi, who took more damage from a single hit than John who got shot at and electrocuted multiple times. The main issue with this comparison is that John was ambushed and alone against Remi with Blyke and Isen backing her up, while Kuyo was already prepared for Lennon and the sniper as well as had Blyke to back him up to take out the sniper. John had a more difficult time against Remi because he was taken by surprise and had two people attack him at once. Again, like your first example, they’re not good comparisons when you consider the circumstances that made the fights more difficult or easier for each combatant, and when taking them into account, it doesn’t really prove, at least to me, how Kuyo could be stronger than John when using these examples.
I suggest maybe finding better comparisons, because I do agree with you that Kuyo has to be stronger than Volcan and Arlo, as well as Leilah, but a 7.7 is a bit of a stretch.
>I do agree that Rei’s ability level was from high school
Uru actually confirmed that his ability level was from his time of death in one of her q&as.
Yeah! I realized that after reading a few comments from this post. Thanks for correcting me though! Also, does my explanation make sense?
I honestly don't believe Uru was lying when she said Rei was a 5.8 at the time of his death. When Uru wants to keep something a secret to avoid spoilers, she'll just say "spoilers" or something like that. She doesn't give us false information. And from what we know Rei was stronger than Kuyo when he graduated.
This means Kuyo's level would've had to shoot up by 1.7 points within 2 years of graduation just to match John's level, while Rei didn't grow at all. That seems very unlikely to me. Just reaching god-tier is already difficult enough, with only around 1 in 100,000 people managing to do so. Reaching John's level is like hitting god-tier, then dropping down to mid-tier and still having enough potential left to hit elite-tier again. I'd be surprised if even half of god-tiers accomplish that.
Let's say that Rei's level really was 5.8 three years ago and he grew to John's level along with Kuyo by the time of his death. If this were the case he would've absolutely steamrolled Volcan unless she boosted her level with the highly-addictive, experimental amplifying drug with unknown side-effects. If she did she most likely would've had to take them before the fight, as she wouldn't have the time to inject herself with the drug while getting her ass handed to her by someone that's more than a point higher than her.
Personally, I don't see the authorities sending Volcan after somebody she would need an amp to take down. The authorities are very careful about who they allow to use those things. They know any high-tier or even a decently strong elite-tier could be a serious threat to them if they use the drug. Giving one of their loyal, level 6+ agents a severe addiction to a drug they produce along with the power to rip them to shreds if she's desperate for another fix seems like so much more trouble than its worth when they could probably just call in someone stronger to take down Rei.
Rei being a 5.8 at the time of his death makes sense, as it would make him just a bit weaker than what Volcan's level probably is, and him being more than 1.7 points weaker than someone he surpassed a few years ago seems like a stretch to me.
Finally, I feel like you're overestimating how much trouble John had with Remi. It was pretty much over for her as soon as John hit her once, and that took him only two abilities and a few seconds. In that time all she managed to do was stun him slightly and dodge one or two of his moves. The only reason she managed to recover afterwards is because John took a few minutes to pummel Isen and Blyke after burying her into the wall.
you have convinced me lol
The Kuyo prediction seems way too off imo. Rei was stronger than him, at least by a little and based on Rei being King of Wellston, and Rei was 5.8 before his death. I don’t see how Kuyo would grow by 2 points in such a short amount of time. It doesn’t really make any sense to me.
The second point I could agree.
Narratively, for me personally, it’d be interesting to see JU introduced as a powerful individual and not necessarily have to use his ability to beat Vaughn but by some other means. And if there were to be a fight, it’d be a lot more intriguing for JU to win but not necessarily have Vaughn leave. Maybe they could have a grudge against the authorities and both work together in some way? Idk. I just don’t see anything narratively interesting with Vaughn winning. We can’t really tell from the few panels we’ve seen from JU, but I can’t help but believe that he’s probably one of the more stronger people we’ll see. I do agree with the Jane part.
>Rei was 5.8 before his death.
Rei was a 5.8 before he left Wellston. Not as of his death. I'll briefly explain why.
1. If he was only a 5.8 after 2 years of vigilante training, that means he must have been a weak elite when he was King. That doesn't make sense, especially since Arlo was a 4.8 at the start of his second year (probably 4.6 as a first year). Rei was stronger than him. Plus, Rei was a 3.2 as a first year and Kuyo was a 3.6. For Rei to surpass Kuyo, but still be around only a 4, Kuyo must have barely grown across 4 years. That makes no sense, since he expected to be a high tier. The numbers just don't add up. Wellston's the best of the best. 5.8 sounds like a very reasonable value for a King to be.
2. The image shown of Rei in his little profile thing was him in Wellston uniform as a 4th year, showing that this is indeed his stats from when he was a 4th year at Wellston. We know that the profile images are of the character at the point of their strength since Blyke got an updated picture when he ascended to high tier. If it was meant to be of Rei before his death, he wouldn't be wearing Wellston uniform. He'd probably be in his super suit.
No Rei was level 5.8 when he died. Uru once said in an AMA that the levels given at the end of the chapters were the most recent levels of the characters (except for the flashback chapters like the one where Uru gives us Zirian's stats).
But Rei was being shown in a flashback. Keene was talking about him and it showed him in his Wellston uniform, clearly in a flashback of some sort. And it doesn't make sense if he was a 5.8 when he died, because that'd imply that he'd be a relative weakling when he actually was King. He'd probably be about a 4.2. That can't work, because he'd have lost to Arlo as a first year
Uru-Chan said in a QnA that Rei’s level is right before he died so your theory is wrong.
Oh! Then yeah I misread it! I mentioned in a comment above that uru confirmed when his ability level was last measured but I was misinformed. This cleared things up for me at least 😂
You should consider that maybe Rei or Kuyo don't have a potential high enough to get that strong so they would stop leveling up after some time even being vigilantes.
I know it's your opinion but why are Jane a the white haired man on this list. We can guess Jane's ability is probably aura manipulation but we don't know for sure. And we know nothing about the white haired man so we can't put him on a list of strongest characters until we find put what his ability is. For all we know he could be the weakest character. I'm not trying to be toxic.
Well Jane’s ability has to be aura manipulation because abilities are hereditary and William is a cripple
I'll say... I don't think Jane or Misterious white haired guy are that strong, i think it's some sort of bait and i'll explain why, i don't think he has aura manipulation like John or Jane as we believe, if there is such a thing as a family of white haired guys that works for the authorities then why there were no amplifiers before Jane, i think Jane is the first "manipulator" that can amplify her aura that's why she's being experimented, but she's not as strong as John, i think the reason she ever got to meet William as an "equal" is because she was considered a failure in her family, and got her powers developed way later, just like John with the difference that John got Claire backing him up.
If Uncle's ability is even related to Aura i think it's a variation related to enforcing that makes him good for the job.
When was John’s uncle introduced
Where's the gardener?
Yeah maybe true but I bet u didn't know that I can run faster in the wind resistance
Also, you forgot the Spectre leader
Who’s the last one?
Inaccurate Zeke stomps all jk 😂
If Zeke was smart, he would be in top 5 powerful students at Wellston. His ability is too good for him just to be an elite.
Wow, why’s Jane the third strongest??
Man...it kinda hurts knowing John’s not the strongest anymore
**”Stings, doesnt it?”**
Is the last guy john's uncle? What chapter was he in?
damn this is 3 days ago
Where’s zeke smh?
This was originally a top 20 list. I had Zeke at 16.
Zeke should be 1