T O P

Zemo is the only winner

Zemo is the only winner

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Aftermath16

> he managed to eliminate all super soldiers - except one You forgot Walker. You brought up an interesting point though....without Civil War, would stopping Thanos have been easier or harder? Civil War got Spider-Man involved...and Ant-Man may not have been taken seriously in Endgame if they hadn’t encountered him in Civil War. It’s an interesting debatable thought.


whiskey_epsilon

Vision would have been a lot harder to take down if he hadn't been off the grid to visit Wanda, the surprise stab that disabled his Phasing was what made it possible for the Stone to be taken off him. And Scarlet Witch was hamstrung in the Wakanda battle because she had to look after Vision. Those two at full capacity with Stormbreaker Thor and Tony would have stood a stronger chance against Thanos.


giuliavjv

Absolutely, even just Wanda and Vision at full capacity could’ve taken him down.


ButtersTG

I wonder what would get Captiain Marvel to come back if Fury didn't see people getting snapped then?


giuliavjv

She wouldn’t come back I guess? Or Fury could find another mission for her. Seems like she isn’t all that about Earth defending to be honest (judging off the movies, I haven’t read the comics)


Imbadyoureworse

And if Thor woulda just aimed for the head?


giuliavjv

He doesn't know Walker is a super-soldier though, right? I kinda gathered that only a couple of people know that John took the serum and is now enhanced. So in my mind, Zemo decided to take pity only on one super-soldier, because he owed him. I think that without CW it would've been easier, they would've seen it coming sooner or they would've had time to organize a master plan just in case someone happened to threaten the Earth. I think Scott would've found a way to reach out to Tony and he would've been taken pretty seriously given his connection to Pym. And I also think that Tony would've eventually asked Peter to join, maybe later on (IW or endgame maybe). My point of view on this is that CW fuck them up for good because they didn't trust each other after that and because they simply didn't have all the brains in one place. I honestly think that if they had all stayed together they would've started studying the stones way sooner and they probably would've gotten rid of the connection between Vision and the stone. But that's just me and my theories. I really do think that Zemo is the reason the Avengers are gone. He is the longstanding enemy lurking in the shadows, there is a reason they decided to bring him back imo.


vitalAscension

Even though he's old, Isaiah is also a super soldier


sunsetskye_

Zemo doesn't know about Isaiah, and since he's retired and didn't want the serum anyway, I think he'd leave him be even if he did know.


ArthurBea

The image of Zemo’s butler continually trying to take out Walker cracks me up for some reason.


InnocentTailor

I think Sharon also won in this show as well. She not only got a pardon and a cushy position from the American government, but also still maintains her Power Broker empire with all of its wealth.


giuliavjv

I agree somewhat but that is still to be seen, her “villain” story has just started. Zemo literally accomplished what he had set out to do in this series. He gets a winning ending. If he never comes back, he still won.


darraghc117

>But then again, he isn’t really a villain is he This man blew up the UN


giuliavjv

Well if you put it like that I’d pull a “he’s adopted” from Thor’s book


283leis

to be fair thats like the only 100% villainous thing he's done. the rest are morally grey, or even good (killing the other winter soldiers)


sunsetskye_

Drowned that other guy in the beginning of Civil War


283leis

He was a Hydra colonel, so I don’t consider that to be a villainous action. Not moral, but definitely not evil


sunsetskye_

Zemo won both in Civil War and here, accomplishing both his goals at the time. He counts as a villain, or at least leaning towards villain, because his mentality is "the ends justify the means" and is willing to do terrible things to accomplish his goals. Zemo is a great character, and his motivations make sense.


vanessamich

Bucky also wins as he has longer has his nightmares, gets a friend in Sam, and meets Sarah 😀