T O P
AureaMediocritas1

some things I would recommend against Illaoi are: ignite and barried skill q-w-e-w max - qmax try to build tanky, when someone builds tanky she can't just build full tank, since she doesn't need dmg to kill pure dmg dealers. And you force her to build both dmg and tankiness like that.


KugioMC

Yeah, illaoi is really hard for Warwick because of how her kit works. A high elo illaoi should win most of the time, but there is ways to get around it. She’s not a dodge because she is punishable before 6, as long as you focus on dodging her E’s. Both tank or dmg works if you’re ahead, but illaoi should never let you get ahead and just wait for 6.


bfg9kdude

I don't understand how is Illaoi hard, she has no fighting power pre6 and if you can control lane you can outheal everything from her if neither have GW. Matchup is just dodging her E and she doesn't have the power to finish you off due to ww passive heal on minions. Even if she somehow gets ahead in lane, the moment you get sunderer you can run her down. I'd put this matchup in easy to medium, but it's definitely not hard. Also good idea to take demolish into morde, never thought of that


KugioMC

Yes Ww is fine into illaoi early, but due to how her kit works you rarely win after 6. In high elo this matchup is medium at best as stated by Parnelly. And we have to evaluate it as if the illaoi is good, hence if both plays it really good it’s easier for illaoi than Warwick to play after 6 and rest of game. Hence why this matchup is medium/hard. That doesn’t mean impossible, it just means an illaoi that knows what he is doing will have a small edge


AceOcto

Illaoi is genuinely a garbage champ. the counterplay for her 2 strongest abilities are just to walk away, since she has no cc and all 4 of her abilities lock her down she cant chase anyone even though she has the second highest base movespeed in the game. She only ever gets decent winrates because she only has a fighting chance against melees that dont know how to play into her, which is basically 99% of all top laners in plat and below


KugioMC

Yes illaoi is rly bad atm, but her kit counters WW specifically, especially if she doesn’t let u get ahead early. Even if she as a champ is hot garbage her kit is really effective vs ww’s kit. You have to understand that even if her win rate etc is really bad, that doesn’t mean all matchups for her are bad. Some champs are more or less effective vs other champs


MiseryPOC

OP is a very level headed and mature person. But let me be frank with you, wr inflates or deflates based on 2 things: - mediocre players being able to 1v9 more often because the champ is “over-tuned” - more people maining the champ because she feels better to play after a recent buff. OTPs and mains won’t take as huge (keyword being huge) of a hit if their champ is nerfed, but the rest of the players will. In other words: just because normal players suck at Illaoi, doesn’t mean she is suddenly weak in every 1v1 or 2v2 matchup. She just can’t 1v9 everyone consistently in this meta. Mid-late game Juggernaut type champions shit on early-mid game Diver type champions after a certain point both skirmishes and team fights.


bfg9kdude

Yea, I agree, but I got trauma from way back when I was playing Darius and got steamrolled by every Illaoi I faced and everyone says he counters her. Now I feel comfortable laning aggresively into Illaoi mains, not just random trying her out, for most of my champs, still can't play Darius into her lol


AureaMediocritas1

that coming from you?!?!!?!?


AceOcto

yeah man I love Illaoi to death but I can admit shes pretty bad. I used her to carry to diamond last season but I realised roaming and mobility is infinitely more useful to climb than zone control, and Illaoi can do neither. I've noticed in past games there have been 2-3 points in lane where the enemy was in kill range, but I couldn't do anything to get a kill because they could just walk away. Q is easy to dodge, I need to burn flash to get in W range and E will never kill either. On Camille or Wukong, nobody can escape you if you get a lead, but Illaoi just has to sit there and wait for people to engage on her. It's genuinely stupid how much stronger champs are compared to Illaoi. I just got out of a game as Camille. I was 1/0 and I walked back into lane and I noticed the enemy sylas was trying to trim a wave with something like 15 minions. Obviously everyone would want to engage in that moment because if he tanks the minions while fighting you he would get ripped apart. If I was playing Illaoi he would have seen me from a mile away and ran away. But I was playing Camille and dashed a full screen before he could react, chain CCd him with my E and R and got a kill within 10 seconds of coming back to lane. Illaoi just doesn't have the agency in lane to do something like that. I still love playing her and I've been playing a lot of Illaoi in normals and featured gamemodes but it's been getting harder for me to hit diamond every year so I might as well expand my champ pool and see what works.


AureaMediocritas1

Yeah the ols strats don't work, you must be really creative if you want to carry with her, especially high diamond games.


EmilianoR24

Why no lethal tempo in any matchup?


KugioMC

Please read the 5th line from the Top. TLDR; it’s too early to say how reliable the rune is atm. That’s not saying it’s bad, that means it might still get changed over the next few week(s).


xAegaeonx

Ok but how do you \`play against Warwick. I main Mordekaiser and the lane feels unplayable against WW. How do you play against him?


KugioMC

The thing is, ww will always win over mordekaiser 1v1 if he doesn’t screw up. The way to beat him? Don’t 1v1 him. Ever. Instead play around the strengths of your champion. Ult away a priority target in teamfights, be utility for your team, protect your carries etc. Or just wait for a gank. Warwick is not that good in teamfights and NEEDS to get ahead early. If he doesn’t, he won’t be that useful at all. So don’t let him get an early lead and you should be fine.


xAegaeonx

That sounds logical. I tried to lvl 2 all in him but he nearly killed me while lvl 1 because of his massive healing. So in Lane I just let him push all the time and collect the farm under tower? Is a bramble rush worth it?


KugioMC

And yes, there shouldn’t be a world where mord wins early 1v1


xAegaeonx

Thats so crazy. Even with a lvl higher He just outsustained me. Would you recomend picking WW as a pocket Pick?


KugioMC

Well I have 2 mil on the champ, Ofc I will be recommending it. If you like the play style it’s a really good lanebully


Kripox

If you are going to play vs WW, consider Ignite. The severe cut to his healing is a huge boon. You lose TP but usually WW doesn't take TP either so you aren't givign him a free TP advantage by doing so.


KugioMC

Bramble always worth it.


SwoodPotatoChopper

As a Morde main, probably just rush Bramble + Tabis, maybe even an armguard if losing too hard


KugioMC

well this is the tricky part, I would recommend Merc instead. Why? Warwick does 70% AP Damage and has CC in his kit


SwoodPotatoChopper

I mean, you could probably go with either depending on the enemy team


KugioMC

Yeah But as in surviving lane


ownagemobile

The mercs won't reduce suppression, just the E pop which is always 1 second with zero tenacity. The tabi also reduce Warwick's passive damage from eternal hunger, per lolwiki. I couldn't tell from the wiki if it reduces the Q damage or not. Regardless, I think tabi are a more effective buy vs Warwick than you might think.


Kripox

No they shouldnt reduce his passive unless his passive is somehow an exception to the general ruel that tabis dont affect on hit effects. Where do you see the wiki say it works thsi way? I see the opposite.


Jhinstalock

Make sure not to spread the news about my pocket pick too much, before it gets *nerfed* or something :( Good spreadsheet btw!


KugioMC

Tyty :D


edealbad

I love these posts... I try not to rely too much on guides because I don't want to be in autopilot every game, but this sort of post feels like a nice nudge in the right direction. It's similar to NoArmWhatley's spreadsheet for Tahm Kench and I found that to be a great first step to learning Kench. Thanks a lot for this!


KugioMC

No problem at all! Have fun with it


Magnumwood107

This is fantastic. Might you happen to have other matchup posts for other champs?


KugioMC

As a Warwick OTP myself this is my first mega spreadsheet. I’d probably have to reach out to Challanger players of other communities to make that work. But it does sound like a very fun idea although I lack the knowledge to do it myself!


Silencer306

Also it would be awesome if you can do these for more obscure champs in off roles. Like rengar/zac/sejuani top. Other lanes too. I know its hard but most meta champs already have good info available. Good luck!


KugioMC

Ah the pressure. So you’re thinking something like “All Off Meta Tops Spreadsheet Guides”?


Silencer306

Precisely, but it’s your decision since you’re putting in the work. I’m just giving a suggestion :)


KugioMC

I’ll see what I can do


mat1122

I knew you were a WW OTP by your avatar!


alexearow

I see khazix isn't on this muhahaha


KugioMC

I have yet to face a kha top xd


alexearow

If you're on NA and high diamond - masters then we'll meet eventually


KugioMC

Well I’m diamond EUW


seanbentley441

I've been thinking about playing ww top for a while now cause as a singed/sej main he's a champ i think is just funny (run in at 1/3 hp, run out full). Im both glad to have this resource and sad that i now have to play against this shit more as singed lol


KugioMC

It’s a fun pick, try it!


DiiJordan

Played against it as Singed today and suffered all of lane phase; next game I played Warwick and tilted the hell out of the enemy team. I'm down to be a menace in low elo.


CTHeinz

As a former Garen main, I understand your pain at dealing with the Teemo matchup.


KugioMC

Let us all hope for teemo nerfs


psicosisbk

How is Darius hard? You can dodge his Q healing with either your Q or your R, and he can't pull you with E if you hold your Q


KugioMC

Darius is a Hard/Medium matchup. This is because a better Darius can use kiting to his advantage to duel Warwick. In higher elos where Darius knows what he is doing, some good spacing from him can win duels. Hard is not the same as impossible. It just means that Darius has to make less mistakes compared to warwick


psicosisbk

Ah, I undertand. Thanks. I find myself struggling a little less against Darius than Urgot or Kled for example, but I'm just a plat scrub so yea.


KugioMC

Plat is not scrub at all, you’re above average. You can also read the matchup tips about urgot to know how to beat him as this is one of WW’s best matchups. Matching his R with your R nearly always wins every duel. It’s just that we have to evaluate matchups as if they are both played at a high lever, it would be ineffective to assume that your opponent won’t play the matchup as he should.


Teakilla

Darius wins if he can stack up his passive/and ult and he's not super squishy and has a heal


Fippi

Way too broken.


KugioMC

Haha it sure is


daxzetina

Tip: You can q to not get hit by moredkaiser ult


Chillerbeast

So when do you prefer a tank mythic over an ad mythic and vice versa?


KugioMC

It’s all up to your play style. I prefer ad mythic personally


Chillerbeast

Isn't Warwick very manahungry? Do you ever build tear(with the new tear tank item?) Edit: oh it's there in the list, I over read it sry


KugioMC

I rarely do that. If you need the extra mana go for it, but after playing him for a while you learn how to play around that manapool, so it’s not that big of a problem IMO


asianwheatbread

Why you gotta tell everyone that warwick has TWO unstoppables to dodge lillia sleep :c makes the matchup very sad for me Though fr, this spreadsheet is amazing! I’ve seen so many warwick tops lately and honestly they could use this. I feel like I have a tendency to play junglers in top lane (cough lillia and I want to learn rengar top cough) so maybe I could add warwick to that pool haha


KugioMC

Sounds like an amazing champpool to me xd Well it's not the easier thing in the world to avoid Lillia R, but if you know the timing you look really cool ;)


asianwheatbread

Yeah, timing his q perfectly to dodge cc is a bit tricky from what I’ve seen but pretty cool when you pull it off


henchabeast

What about the electrocute setup tokz and the asian 1tricks were using?


KugioMC

It’s not as consistent and doesn’t scale that well


Deadlite

Suddenly horrified that my favorite off meta pick is going to be cannibalized by every silver trying to climb. I fear for my life and my queue.


Jynras

What about a Shyvana Top matchup?


KugioMC

I honestly have not faced enough Shyvanna top


Celentia

An interesting tech I do specifically against the Darius matchup is lethal tempo/PTA + dorans blade, and the tech is galeforce + hullbreaker to never lose to him sidelane. You may lose the game instantly if the jungler ganks you, but the good thing is that the reverse also applies to Darius.


KugioMC

Ooo sounds fun. You make it sound like a bot of a team gamble though hahahah, but I like it!


KugioMC

Ps I’m a fan xd loved ur ww doc from a year ago


Howard_USCG

u got a lot of balls posting that irelia isn’t op on reddit. take my upvote for honesty


KugioMC

Well, it’s just a good matchup for Warwick


WarwickTop

Bruh


ThirteenMoney

So I gotta ask, how come you haven’t done AP Warwick? I know it isn’t really ‘meta’ WW, but I’ve had some fun trying out with AP


KugioMC

AP is really fun, but this document was more meant to show the most reliable runes and build so you can as easily as possible climb


KONO-DIO-THA

This is actually really nice of u guys. Im going to abuse this. I won a game against a silver volibear as sett and lost to an aatrox but was winning till his jungler decided to help(they were duo but still I never bought a ward which in turn is all my fault. It was aatrox vs voli I was voli. I checked net and it favored me so I don't think I'm skilled at all lol) not to mention I lost to an iron 1 Darius after taking some time off. So Im really glad for the tip.


KugioMC

I hope it’ll be of use to you!


Behemothheek

Why ignite vs Tahm?


KugioMC

TK is extremely hard to ever kill, you take ignite t ey and cheese a kill in lane. It’s the only way to kill him unless he missplays