Run around turret and graves cant dive you :D


if i knew that earlier...


There's nothing special about his scaling. just farm. He can't hit you behind minions


It’s all fun and games until he just Q’s the wave on cooldown.


So then you just fight him?




Ah yes, 425 range kiting 😂😂😂 I presume you also think he will have any damage after wasting his Q. Or that you're playing Udyr for the W to matter.


graves autos are literally do more damage than q what are you sayin


Yeah, 2 autos do more damage than a single Q. The thing is not only can you hide behind minions, it's his only damage aside from Ult and the W tickle


Depends on build, eclipse graves has 0 But ISB crit graves, whole other story


Correct me if I'm wrong but ISB Graves is not really effective until Collector and possibly IE (depending on lead). The ISB only gives him the sustain he needs for top, rather than straight up damage. I might not play this game a lot but once you have those two items laning phase is over for a long time, so I don't see how it's relevant?


ISB gives him more reliable sustain and burst survival with the lifeline shield. Random crits can also catch people trying to hide behind minions. But I play graves jungle so idk if crit graves top changes, however I do know that mid and jungle graves go ISB for crit build


Kiting is possible when you’re Irelia with her 225(?maybe 200 I forget) range. Low Elos discount range creep on melees.


Stay at your fountain. His range isn't long enough to auto you, he will get killed by the laser if he tries.


I've found success going ignite tp and just permakill him. He is actually kinda weak early on, especially if he uses his Qs on the waves all the time.


Dude, just learn TK, go approach velocity and that beats basically every ranged top


Mighty annoying


Not that I played of played against Grave top. But range bruiser like Urgot wins against TK easily. Wouldn't surprise if Grave can do something similar.


First, graves honestly doesn't scale that well. He has two really viable builds, bruiser (eclipse into tabi and cleaver), or crit (eclipse into crit items, probably still defensive boots). If he builds bruiser, his base stats are just worse than a melee bruiser without his E and he also has no hard CC to help his team with (the smokescreen is good against ADCs, but it's not going to help him catch someone diving his team easily for example like a stun). If he builds crit, he ends up as an assassin who can one-shot squishies but also gets one-shot in return. In lane, play against graves while keeping his autos in mind. His poke is terrible from range because it'll do less damage than 100% of his AD, and the only way he gets his full damage off is if you're fighting in melee range with no minions to block his autos. Additionally, his returning Q is a large part of his damage before he gets crit items, so make sure to dodge that and not stand between him and the wall. Finally, if you're letting lane graves stack his E enough to be a major problem, you've screwed up in some way. Graves E gives a stack for 4 seconds, while his E at max rank (keep in mind that graves maxes E second) has a 12 second cooldown. The only way for him to refresh his stacks without using E again is to deal damage to champs or jungle camps, so back off if he has high stacks of his E and wait until they expire to engage him again


Graves crit takes ISB nowadays


I thought it still depended on spikes. Shieldbow for better late-game and more consistent scaling, eclipse for early power and lane domination. could be wrong though


ISB is just more consistent for crit graves and it gives him the safety of lifeline. IMO ISB is safer and eclipse is more aggressive. But both do good damage


As a Graves top enthusiast my worse fears are garen, nasus players who can manage waves, Darius with ghost, sett, Jax and Tryndamere. Play within your wave and know that Graves is hard to freeze on. Because of the way his autos work he’ll often shove unintentionally. Let him shove and freeze towards you. Play any champ I listed and run him down. If he went phase rush he’ll be hard to chase so wait for jg or flash CC him or ghost. If he’s got fleet he’ll have really good sustain so just play to scale. Lastly if he has PTA he’s playing for early game just chill for a bit and wait for him to over step. Graves is really only useful if he snowballs. So just don’t let him snowball play a stone wall style. Mainly though don’t play champs who are easy to abuse early. Kayle, Camille, jayce ect are freelo. Nasus is good once you have 6 and can stack. Your wither and bonks will melt a Graves regardless of how ahead he is. Along with his E armor reduction. Graves in top or mid is all about bullying and snowballing. Edit; Tahm Kench and malphite are also super super strong into ranged top. Learn how to play both of them if you’re struggling with ranged top.


If you pick the right champs for the matchup its a free win man. I love when people think they're hot shit and pick exotic picks in ranked, see it as a win-condition.


Play sett, honestly play sett against any ranged top. They can’t deal with his damage and he has amazing sustain


Depending on what you play you could potentially pull the lane and leave him exposed to ganks. Granted you can maintain a freeze on him! A big part of it is abusing his lack of hard cc to dodge ganks & matching pushes on the wave. You shouldn’t have to expose yourself to deaths/unnecessary poke.


Graves can’t trade in minion waves. He sorta has to shove every wave because of his passive.


Please guys if they’re picking first then counter pick for the love of god! You can have free lane wins if you continue to counter pick!


Graves isn't really a ranged top. Just stay behind your minion wave and play passively.


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