In Rise of Skywalker, Rey holds a curved dagger up to frame the Death Star Ruins in shot. This is because the entire film is held up solely by references to previous entries and recycled plot elements.

In Rise of Skywalker, Rey holds a curved dagger up to frame the Death Star Ruins in shot. This is because the entire film is held up solely by references to previous entries and recycled plot elements.


"this dagger is ANCIENT! But it's a perfect reference for a crashed 20-30y old spaceship.... Also, it knew exactly how the ship would crash."


She also remarks how she can sense that the knife was used for evil. But she also spent the last two movies swinging around Anakin’s Youngling Slasher 3000 and never said a word.


9000. Youngling Slayer 9000.


Over 9000? That’s a lie, it’s 1006


BYS 9000 is a brand name.


I was trying (and failing) to make a DBZA joke


*And their whaaaaaales*


The Youngling Slayer 6000, a new product less advanced than the Youngling Slayer 9000 but just as fun.


Comes in Blue!


I think you’ve got it upside down.


It's over 9000... ^(*rah*)


No, those were beautiful flowers he cut down as a gift for Padamammy, or whatever her name was.* *(Yes I know, it’s a Robot Chicken reference)


What the hell is an aluminum falcon?


Who’s “they”?!?!


Wait... You mean you've been flying around for two weeks trying to find a signal?


Oh, you must smell like feet wrapped in leathery burnt bacon. 


Now get your 7 foot 2 asthmatic ass back here before i tell everyone what a whiny bitch you were about padamommy or panda bear or whatever her name was!


Oh, *just build another one?* Where the hell am I gonna get a loan?! You got an ATM in that chest of yours, Lite Brite?


Go for papa palpatine!


Oh geez, he’s *crying*


I…I love you too


It’s an [aluminum mallard](https://spacequest.fandom.com/wiki/Aluminum_Mallard)


[go for papa Palpatine ](https://youtu.be/3F1d3QWsyk0) This will always be my fav Robot Chicken bit and will still sometimes answer the phone like this with my friends.


I’ll always love, “That’s right Palpy, yousa manipulate me... *Mwuhuhuhuh*” - Jar Jar


Panda Bear




Oh my sweet summer child...


You see their corpses when Yoda and Obi Wan go to the temple.


Yea but those kids were probably annoying and shat their pants so they had it coming


[Sidious shows up with a case of beer].. We rule the galaxy, you ready to kill these yuenglings? Uhh master? I misheard you when you said that the first time.


I never thought of this and it fucking hilarious. Ty for giving me yet another reason to keep complaining about sequels.


Maybe the younglings were the evil ones


Maybe the real child murder was the friends we made along the way


also she happens to stand in the exact spot so this will work, very convenient.


These things pissed me off more than notquitekilling Chewy and Palpatines return. At least cloning was a thing already but miracle Macguffin dagger? BS.


The worst part about it is that they could have still used the stupid Dagger and just used force premonition with it, like we saw Rey use in TFA when she grabbed Anakin's lightsaber. Like it's such an easy solution but instead we got this bullshit.


Might as well have used the medallion in Goonies.


This but unironically


Right? The sequel trilogy would have been so much better if they just leaned into their silliness. If Rise of Skywalker was straight Goonies clone across the Sith planet for Palatine's space gold it could have at least been fun and not a portentous nothing.


I’m pretty confident that this script was generated by some B grade AI. I don’t know how a person could think this is okay to produce.


Well it was written by a guy who said he didn’t get Star Trek because it was too cerebral so B grade AI is being generous.


That actually explains a lot.


Somewhere out there, I hope there's a petition to keep Abrams away from all franchises that start with "Star".


Only then can Stargate be safe, keep praying


Shhhh they’ve forgotten about it, let it sleep with dignity


JJ Abrams should be kept away from:- * Starchiness, under the stairs * Starboard 8, the revenges revenge * Starvation: Hunger games * Stark naked lesbians 12 * Starworts and Asters * Staring 2: Rematch * Startup battle royale * Starlets QT3.141 Sign up below


Eh, it probably made sense originally and then some executive got their hands on it. “What’s a holocron? That doesn’t make sense!” “What if it was the Death Star instead of a Sith Temple?” “Why not have Rose go over the diagrams of decades old ships instead of doing anything useful?”


It was written by the guy who did X-men origins: Wolverine. That shows just how much care went into this movie.


Also, I thought it was going to be a key, like a literal key, because it looks like one. An ancient sith dagger modified to physically unlock a chamber in the Death Star that only a force sensitive could find would be perfectly acceptable. But no, have to align the dagger with the wreckage of a star base the size of a small moon, from a specific location you happened to land at with no need to travel or explore, and the wreckage is exactly where it fell decades ago despite laying in a turbulent ocean. I was already checked out after the convenient meeting with a massive sand snake that had a boo-boo that needed healing to earn its trust, but every one of these lazy plot points was still aggravating.


Fuck me I forgot all about that snake


Oh like have it float and point to where they needed to go? That costs too much money.




Maybe should have died, but having your protagonist blow up a beloved franchise character would not have been great, either. C3PO, though... His arc should have ended after the memory wipe. He got to make a choice to sacrifice himself to save everyone, because he knew the odds better than anyone. Instead, it was used to set up more abuse until R2 could restore a backup.


Should have dropped a moon on chewie.


what a legend


That's no moon.


Yuuzhan Vong: "Oh no, it's a Moon, this Time. After dropping multiple Spacestations on people, we decided to always check now before we use giant, spherical Things that float in space to kill our Enemies."




You know, I thought of one line that I think completely solves Threepio's arc: At the end, when Artoo is transferring Threepio a memory back-up, I would have loved Threepio to say, solemnly: "Artoo... I remember everything." And that's it. No more explanation. It implies that Threepio remembers all 9 movies. A gift, from Artoo to Threepio. I think Threepio making the ultimate sacrifice could have been rewarded. It may have been touching, at fits with TROS trying to wrap up all 3 trilogies. Alternatively, Artoo *gives* his memory to Threepio. They're best friends. Artoo goes into retirement, and tells Threepio absolutely everything. Either of those I thought could make Threepio's arc emotional and powerful, without undermining the root format he goes through earlier in the film.


I've still not watched this film. I've been a Star Wars fan since I was 9, am 29 now, I just don't give a fuck any more. Fuck that shithole company.


The force did it, checkmate atheist


In the book, they explain this by saying that the dagger's message also contained GPS coordinates so she'd know exactly where to stand. It's still bullshit, but that's the canon explanation.


I'd say that makes it even worse. So it contains coordinates to a location where you have to stand with the dagger to find another location. Wouldn't it make more sense to put in the coordinates to the Death Star directly in the dagger's message? Who would design something like that?


Go here. You liberally can't miss it. Okay, if you do somehow manage to need more help, hold up dagger. Yeah, about there. If you still have trouble, coordinates are engraved on the other side.


On a whole fucking planet. Cue 2 scenes later kylos just creeping in a corner. Fuck that movie


It's not really ancient it's more a retro dagger. Maybe vintage.


I believe it could be called a distressed look dagger you know, just looks old because someone has scuffed the shit out of it, then Wants to charge you *more*, for the privilege.




Why didn’t anyone at Disney stop and go “…that doesn’t make any sense.”


the dagger was maybe the dumbest macguffin of all time.


It could have literally been any piece of technology and made more sense. It could have been a paper map. Even if it was the same dagger with some kind of tracker in it, it would have worked better. EVEN IF Rey had tried it out a few times before it actually worked right or felt the force draw her to the exact spot it would work better. But JJ didn't do ANY of that. In a franchise where literally every tiny thing has an explanation, he plopped something completely inexplicable into the middle of all of it and gave the middle finger to the story group and pretty much every person watching the movie. Sorta like having to get schematics through the roof from a cable with a parallel port on the end in a universe with wireless technology. Or lightspeed skipping. Or Han returning. Or Leia dying. Or Kylo dying. Or Palpatine returning. Or Palpatine dying because two lightsabers are crossed together. I have to wonder if they shot any scenes where anything was explained, even briefly, and then just opted not to use them.


He went for cheap references over building sensible plot points. It's like trying to have a real conversation with someone whose whole life revolves around internet and pop culture references.


“Remember that thing that’s better than this?”


this is the jj abrams philosophy of screenwriting




That was the moment I knew the movie was just not going to recover. A Star Wars movie can only really bear two or three of those moments. I knew it was just going to keep going like the first draft of some fan fiction. I still cannot believe that JJ was telling people this would be "satisfying" to long time fans.


I repressed that bit somehow haha. The many MANY levels on which it makes no sense is insane. Like, first, the idea that going in and out of hyperspace would be faster than just going through hyperspace. BUT THEN even better, somehow you keep landing within atmospheres! ​ You know, I could even think of ways it could ALMOST work which wasn't as they described: Maybe if they were using the planets for gravity slingshots. But just "lightspeed skipping" is insane. Plus then you have the supposed best pilot in the resistance saying "if only Rey were here". Like, what?!


There were far to many macguffins in the story anyway. It was like a goddamn fetch quest. I honestly wish people would stop asking JJ to write stories. He is good at other things, but his writing is always like a fan fiction.


I always felt like that could have been a plot point that works because they have prophecies and future visions and shit but that would have taken way more and better setup to work.


Also knows exactly where to stand to get the perfect angle.


The dark side is a pathway to many ~~abilities~~ script-writing techniques that some consider to be.....unnatural.


You know it's interesting how much of a mess this movie was and it was because from every article and interview it shows that the cause seems to boil down to them just rushing the whole thing because stuff fell apart and they couldn't bring themselves to push the movie date further back. Like they threw away the original script because the script writer had issues with upper management. They brought back JJ to direct the movie after they couldn't find anyone else. He then gets a script made and they were like ok cool only for them to ask him to rewrite the story right before and even during filming so that he can add narrative beats that they wanted in it. So you get this weird mess of a story that you can tell someone was making it up as they went along because they weren't given enough time. The whole thing was just fascinating to watch go down.


Is there a plot synopsis of the original script? What blows my mind is there was a huge expanded universe they could have just stolen from. People have been brainstorming what happens next for 30 years & they decide to wing it.


To be honest, the original script was also really, really bad. It's called Duel of the Fates and you can find it out there. Some people even made an audio-drama out of it.


Hell, Jenny Nickelson's idea for ep 9 would have been better. And she came up with Rey Palpatine as a joke.


They had the Thrawn trilogy that they could have put straight to movies and that would have been amazing sequels. Instead we got this garbage. I’ll never stop being salty about this


I think they didn't want to have to de-age people or try to update the story to fit the age of the current actors. They also probably didn't want to pay Timothy Zahn for the rights to the story. the 2nd and 3rd Thrawn books were some of the best Star Wars stories ive ever read and it hurts that its never going to be adapted.


The story pretty much works just as well if you fast forward it 20-30 years in the future. Like … they could have used the exact same characters they did now and use the Thrawn storyline lol


*We thought destroying the Death Star would mean the end of the Empire, but for 30 years we have struggled against a single Admiral. He is the only thing standing between the rebellion and complete freedom. But lately I've began to wonder, is the freedom of a few systems worth the 30 years of war and the millions of deaths?* I would have watched that on repeat! It's a million times better than what we got.


I still can’t believe they did this to the most valuable franchise in movies. From a casual fan, I NEVER thought I’d see the day where (lots of) people (and casual fans) just don’t care about Star Wars anymore (like they used to) but…here we are. Edit: added in the parentheses because people are thick as pudding


Ruined Game of Thrones and Star Wars with their rush mentality instead of creating two monsters of pop culture that people would talk about forever again. Nobody talks about Game of Thrones anymore at all, literally. And people only talk about the sequels to argue about which is worse b


The only time people mention GoT anymore is to talk about how no one talks about it anymore. It's hilarious.


Yup. We went from a "Starring-Nobody-Except-Darth-Vader" spinoff prequel making a billion dollars in 2016 straight to a "Han Solo" spinoff prequel bombing with $400M worldwide in 2018, all in the space of one movie.


I’m not even talking box office, just cultural significance. Star Wars used to have hype around it like no other movies, even if some of the movies weren’t that good; people just don’t care anymore. For 40 years nothing could stop that shine until Disney released the sequels and gave EA control over Battlefront


When Christmas comes every day and you can tell Santa doesn't put as much effort in anymore, Christmas becomes less special.


Wow what a great way of putting it. They should have cooled their jets for a year after rogue one. Waited for solo, and workshopped Skywalker to be better than it was. All of that would have served to keep “Santa more special”


They wanted another Marvel who currently has something like 20 announced projects in a 3 year time span. Hell, they're still trying for that. The moment The Mandalorian took off they announced like 6 new Star Wars titles.


Im completely marveled out, I have absolutely zero interest in the 10 rings and the black widow movie I couldnt enjoy at all. Just…tired after 10 years of these characters all over thr place


Black Widow was definitely not great, and What If? Made me really not care. It was alright, it just kind of breaks the toy when you say nothing matters, there's always another universe unless you Rick and Morty it. I would recommend Shang-Chi though, its up there with the tentpole titles you're used to. Black Widow felt like a movie made out of contractual obligation by all parties involved.


> I would recommend Shang-Chi though, its up there with the the tentpole titles you're used to. Black Widow felt like a movie made out of contractual obligation by all parties involved. As an Asian person, that is how I felt about Shang-Chi. It was a movie made out of contractual obligations/greed for Asian money now that Hollywood realizes how much money that really is. It felt like a movie that was made because they saw how well Black Panther did with the African American community so they thought lets do another color and see how it goes, without putting in the effort for the story like they did before.


I was too, but the ~~Netflix~~ Disney+ series have been surprisingly good and have got me interested in some (but not all) of the future movies. The highlights for me so far have been Loki (never cared about this character previously) and Wandavision (especially the first half).


I think dropping the movies for now is the best idea. The mandolorian, and the small series stuff is really doing a good job of pushing the story forward.


That's a beautiful, hauntingly nihilistic and poetic phrase, would you mind if I were to use it in my next class?


just show them that one episode of Sesame Street


See: those random Episode 1 Pepsi machines still sitting around, or the YEARS of toy shelves holding Ep.1 figures after that movie (and the others) had long since been criticized. Star Wars was just *there*, always around. Then somehow crowd-pleasing merchandiser extraordinaire Disney takes the ball and runs it back into their own end zone. The company simply can't maintain any franchise with a preexisting fanbase


Solo deserved better as it was a perfectly good average movie


That's because Rogue One was a fantastic movie that mostly separated itself from the mess that is the overtold story of the Skywalker lineage. Not to mention the killer soundtrack.


Solo got fucked by the release date. Plain and simple


There are more bad star wars movies than good ones at this point.


It sucks because I enjoyed watching the *actors* on screen. Oscar Isaac, Daisy Ridley and John Boyega had fantastic chemistry when they were together but we needed more of it. You can tell Boyega was done with it afterwards though and even Daisy looks like she's just bored of it. Like imagine having to put up with half a decades worth of shite and the ending of this saga that you're at the head of being nothing more than a mess. Also Adam Driver carried these three films


Adam Driver is the Ewan McGregor of the sequel trilogy. He gets the cool character with the cool lines and cool scenes, avoiding most of the bullshit that people bag on the movies for.


Wait, people thought Kylo Ren was cool? I always got this annoying angsty teenager vibe from him that was just off-putting.


Kyle Ren? No, he’s talking about Matt, the Radar Technician.


Isn’t that what Anakin was though? Angsty, whiny, deranged, impressionable? It wasn’t so much as Kylo being interesting but seeing Ben Solo come back to the light. It’s a decent arc


Disney is so fucked its beyond silly. They litterally start working on CGI parts for movies and TV shows before scripts for those have even started. They then tell the screenwriters and directors to put those CGI moments on their movies. So like, they are making movies 100% for the trailer moments first just to get people in the theater and make money. Which I understand and hate all at once.


Yeah, they started pre-production on TFA before they even had a script and they were struggling with ideas for what to make the movie about. >Lawrence Kasdan: >"We’re in a room in this hotel in Santa Monica, just trying to figure out what Episode VII should be, and Michael was struggling as much as any of us. Then it got more intense, because now J.J. came in, so it’s me and J.J. and Michael and a bunch of executives from Lucasfilm, going, “Well, what could happen next?” That is no way to write something, and it went on for months. They were getting close to when they were supposed to start production. We had nothing." https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/movies/star-wars-lawrence-kasdan.html


Somehow.. palpatine has returned..


Never forget that the message palpatine broadcasted and was only referenced on the movie [was shown exclusively on... Fortnite](https://screenrant.com/star-wars-rise-skywalker-emperor-palpatine-message-fortnite/).


There's a message from him? I don't play Fortnite, so I missed this one.


The very first sentence in the opening crawl for the movie is: >The dead speak! The galaxy has heard a mysterious broadcast, a threat of REVENGE in the sinister voice of the late EMPEROR PALPATINE. That MINOR thing was fuckin shown exclusively on FORTNITE. Everytime I have to type this I get angry at the sheer absurdity.


I can’t make a movie this bad even If I tried. Come on, Disney, what the hell.




No, they explained it, cloning, a dark secret only the Sith know, except for the army of clones Jedi used like 20 years before.


Angry kaminoan noises!!


more like 60 years before. EP2 and 4 are ~30 years apart and EP6 and 7 also ~30 years


Next your going to tell me ten years ago isn't the 90s.


It’s tough when you get old enough to start thinking everything was “just 10 years ago” and then you realize it isn’t.


Did you know that there are people born in 2000 who can legally drink alcohol in the US?


I'm not ok that people born in 2000 can hold a conversation.


I always interpreted that as cloning *and* secrets only the Sith knew


Yeah it was basically nicked out of the old extended universe stuff that's not canon any more. In that palpy has an ability to do that but his body is constantly degrading because his like spirit isn't supposed to be there so he's constantly draining the life force out of people. Eventually he dies and the force ghosts trap him in force hell so he can't come back any more. Extended universe was dumb af and still better written than these films


And when he tells Luke to strike him down, his plan was to have like give into the dark side by 'killing' him, while his soul would jump into a clone body in the next room and he would pop out and try to convert Luke. That's where the multiple snokes came from.


This drove me fucking insane. Say Palpatine wants to avoid being killed by his apprentice, consolidate power, and pre-program the most powerful military force ever - who does he clone? Anakin. Duh. Palpatine has conveniently already had him on the operating table. Plus, Sheev didn’t need crafty versions of himself - he needed more muscle. This is doubly true after Luke shows up. The Emperor loses faith in Vader almost immediately, and moves to replace him with Luke - clones of Anakin would have made a great backup plan.


I think the dark secret of the sith was somehow getting palps conscience into the new body?


Does he just chill in that underground stadium filled with randos all the time? Or did they know the protagonists were arriving and all file in? Why / how are there bottomless pits everywhere? WHY DOES EVERYONE WHO FALLS DOWN A BOTTOMLESS PIT MAGICALLY SURVIVE?


Imagine the 10 minutes before Rey showed up. "Okay everyone quiet down so she doesn't hear us, we don't want to spoil the surprise!"


"hide the ships so we can make a cool entrance!"


I feel like Palpatine had been bombing a standup routine for about 3 months when Rey comes in. Then the crowd is all hot and Palpatine gets to roast her like a heckler. Idk I’m adhd as a motherfucker


I want to know how he got all the man power to build and pilot all those ships and still have enough guys left over to just sit around and cheer.




How did the debris land intact enough for them to match it to the dagger? How did they get the exact right spot on the cliff? How is there even any debris left of the Death Star 2?


Don’t forget the debris of Death Star 2 shrank *significantly* for rey to even be able to see the whole piece from the shore. It should’ve just looked like a giant wall if it was properly scaled The whole movie demands that you don’t think about it in order to enjoy it.


That last sentence explains all of JJ's movies


Well, it all makes sense if you don't think about it.


I still don't get Super 8


Are we going to ignore the fact that the deathstar is compared to the size of a small moon. And if such a small moon had crashed into that planet that it would have completely eradicated any and all life on the planet leaving it a barren dry wasteland due to the sheer seismic impact?


What if that moon crashed very slowly?


Either that or the ocean is hundreds of miles deep and she's hundreds/thousands of miles away on that cliff. In which case how big is this moon, and how did she sail that far so quickly?


Apparently the dagger had GPS coordinates or the SW equivalent that told them where to stand. That info of course wasn't in the movie and is bullshit anyways.


Which just leads to the obvious question -- if it has coordinates, why aren't they the coordinates of the thing you're looking for, instead of some stupid convoluted vantage point?


You should come visit us, it's cozy /r/saltierthancrait


Good questions, for another time


I just laughed that they randomly pulled out a normal dagger in Star Wars, lol. It looks like a prop from a Skyrim movie that got canceled.


mehrunes razor but boring


For real, and the razor is pretty boring all things considered, besides the beautiful Sigil Stone and the crossguard


The lore of the Razor is pretty dope but yeah, the in-game version is lame.


Why does Skyrim keep making legendary weapons that are out performed by anything an Expert level crafter & enchanter can make?


They didn't think people would go to such lengths to break the Game. That's why I end up using mods to make Daedric Artifacts amazing even in late-game


All good Star Wars daggers vibrate


This movie is so terrible on almost every single level. The only good thing (in my opinion) are the actors, even if the script was bad. Also, i liked the VFX, even if they were obviously rushed at times


I agree, dunk on the films all you like but the core cast did well and I enjoyed them as their characters.


The fact that they revealed Palpatine’s return message in fucking fortnite, not even the actually movie, cracks me up every time I think about it


This is not a shitty movie detail, it is an actual movie detail... unfortunatley...


But it is definitely still shitty.


Unfortunatley yes.


Unfortunatley yes.


It's a detail from a shitty movie. That's close enough.


It’s “(shitty movie) details”, not “shitty (movie details)”


What is this?? A Shitty-Movie detail??


It’s a rip from Goonies.




It's kind of fascinating how in a fantasy series with all these crazy space elements, they actually managed to write a plot point so dumb that nobody bought it. The dagger subplot was just the stupidest shit.


You have a fantasy soap opera with space wizards who can control things with their minds thanks to weird micro-sperm and yet this is still the dumbest thing to come out of the franchise. Honestly I'm almost impressed. Didn't think we'd go past the Christmas special.


This movie was like watching game of thrones s8


It's hard to put into words how much I hated ROS. Why do I keep going to star wars movies? Why? Of the star wars movies released after 1983, I've like one. Just one. And even it wasn't that great.


There are so many plot holes and idiocy in this story that it’s not even worth pointing them out.


I actually came to like TLJ. It didn't recycle anything and didn't try to connect everything. Rey wasn't the 3rd removed cousin of Obi Wan's former barber but rather just a random person in that universe. Snoke was just a nobody and Kylo became unhinged maniac. There's a lot of valid discussion about the plot points of the slow moving ship and the weird use of technology (and that casino planet) but I actually liked the general tone of shitting on the notion that Kylo somehow has to be turned to the light side and everything. Just general mayhem lol. But that doesn't mean that people absolutely hating TLJ aren't valid in their position of course. However TRoS has ruined everything. The weird story with that triangle, the knoife, the desert planet their were suddenly on. Chewie dying and then not dying and all these weird unconnected events I hardly even remember. And the stupid ending where of course Kylo is good again and Palpatine OUTTA NOWHERE WITH THE STEEL CHAIR and all that shit. I can't even put the story coherently in order in my head anymore lmao. It was all just so all over the place.


IMO the trilogy got fucked by switching directors in ep 8. He should have been doing all three or none of them. Tossing out any story build up to tell your own tale then giving it back to the other guy who's plan is now fucked, doesn't make for a good story. A trilogy from the guy who did ep 8 would have been more imaginative rather than just rehashing everything again like 7/9 did.


The trilogy got fucked when they made the first movie without knowing where the rest were going. Coulda kept JJ for TLJ too, it would still have been a mess. Cohesive artistic vision helps, but I'd say a cohesive *narrative* vision is more important. With the important threads of the plot hammered out ahead of time we coulda had *three* directors and a decent trilogy. But when nobody knows wtf they're doing, it feels like a trilogy where nobody knows wtf they're doing.


> Rey wasn't the 3rd removed cousin of Obi Wan's former barber I am your father's, brother's, nephew's, cousin's, former roommate.


for two days in a space summer camp


>I actually came to like TLJ Tbh I came to think the same. I wouldn't consider it a great movie but I came to respect TLJ for trying something new, success or not, with Star Wars. ​ TRoS however? A literal fucking shitshow from start to finish and I cant even respect it for trying because it reeked of corporate focus board "they like \*old thing\* so put it in new movie even if its not really relevant hahaha great idea guys!"


All I remember from TRoS is the part where they’re riding horses on a star destroyer. That’s it.


WHY DIDNT THEY JUST TIP THE FUCKING THING SLIGHTLY TO THE LEFT?!? Man fuck that movie. It’s still a joke in my friend circle every now and then someone outta nowhere will say “were they really riding horses on a star destroyer?”


My biggest gripes with TLJ are all self-contained within the film: - Poe’s entire arc is meaningless. He spends the entire film chasing dark shadowy villains within the Resistance, all because the leadership won’t just tell him what the plan is. And maybe soldiers should follow orders, but Leia should have recognized that Poe was seeing through the charade and needed to be in the loop. It’s framed as a growth arc for him, but there’s nothing for him to learn - he was right to act in exactly the way he did. - It establishes kamikazi hyper spacing. It could have been done right at the beginning of the film. It _should_ be done in every film from here on out. For the sake of a cool CG shot of a fleet being ripped apart we get what is a horrible bit of world building. - Maybe it’s cool that Snoke doesn’t matter, but if that is how it was gonna go then Phasma needed to matter. The problem with TLJ is that _nothing_ mattered: it didn’t matter that Rey didn’t struggle, it didn’t matter that Luke went all youngling-killer, it didn’t matter that Poe tried to root out spies. The casino didn’t matter; the thief didn’t matter. Thanks to hyperspace bombs, none of the combat mattered. There’s a million ways to complain about how it connects to the larger universe, but in a vacuum TLJ is an awful movie.


I hate FA, TLJ and TRoS for completely different reasons each one. Making a new Star Wars trilogy should have been taken a bit more seriously, and with one general idea to develop in the trilogy as a whole and with coherence with the other two trilogies. IMHO the worst part of TLJ is how it was intentionally disruptive with the rest of the franchise. It felt like a Star Trek TNG episode: they took the characters made some random adventure and it's done. If only that adventure was good, but these plot points you mentioned were too much for me. The new trilogy have made me appreciate more the prequels.


Doesn't recycle anything? Half the movie is 'Plot point from empire, but we flip a few key details'


https://nerdist.com/article/star-wars-last-jedi-empire-strikes-back-similarities/ Yep They added a crap fight with guards that make no sense (and suck) and Gotcha kill of Snoke but besides that it's basically the same, just put Hoth at the end.


Which movie is the one that they should have just let Leia die when she flew into space but instead she flew back into the ship…because you know, the force and stuff.




This is better.


This should just be it r/moviedetails


True this is just a detail about a shitty movie


I thought this sub was for posting falsehoods as if they were true. Not posting just straight up truths.


To say this movie is held up by anything is already an overstatement.


It really is tragic what happened with that trilogy. The first installment got so much love and buzz and then all of its goodwill was destroyed by what followed.


What's also unfortunate is that with Eps 8 and 9, Ep 7 is just as shitty too because it didn't set up shit. I remember walking out of the theater after episode 7 and think "Okay, okay. This was hype, it was a little derivative of New Hope but hey, it's kicking off a new trilogy. Coulda had less 'disney moments', but what are you gonna do? They own it. Overall im really looking forward to how they continue this trilogy." And then TLJ happened and I was like "Oh, so no one is taking this seriously, huh?"


They literally fell through the ground and found a map. This is a bad DnD session.


I hate the writing in these movies so much. I feel sorry for the actors who did as good as they could've with the material and lament the wasted opportunity.