T O P

What MCU moment do you think was the most tone-deaf, or what scene/line do you feel undercut a serious moment most egregiously?

What MCU moment do you think was the most tone-deaf, or what scene/line do you feel undercut a serious moment most egregiously?

2real4you129

In the german dub of endgame Thor says „I went for the head“ in a funny way, where in the original his voice broke a little bit. In the german cinema everybody laughed in that moment but it was just sad for Thor. In the original 10/10 scene but in the german dub it’s just cringe.


gogiants48

If “You should have gone for the head” wasn’t memed so much between the two movies, I don’t think people would have laughed so much. I agree, Thor said that line with a lot of pain.


RobertusesReddit

Shows how much of the perspective that's brought towards the MCU is our faults.


Seand768

Even in the English version people were clapping and going wild in cinemas during that scene when it clearly wasn't a celebration moment, it was the last chance the Avengers had at bring everyone back at that time


Tekki777

I remember giving a nervous chuckle after seeing that whole sequence play out. I was just shocked at first. I wasn't expecting the film to start out like this.


bla_bla_bla69

That head chop came as a surprise. I wonder how it wasn't censored.


Granlundo64

No blood. Movie ratings boards have weird standards (In the US). Edit: Apparently there was some blood, just not red.


joe_broke

Minimal alien colored blood


Skyy-High

Eh, can’t fault a movie too much bc the audience is dumb sometimes. Some people still think Tyler Durden is a role model.


Canid119

Also the sense of revenge by proxy is powerful. People seeking out what little victory they can out of that utter failure.


basse058

I just had a stress flashback to when that movie was very popular for a few years and all of the clueless philosophy bros quoting that character nonstop.


Themindsculptor

I am Jack's boring personality


Ranfo

I remember this with the Dark Knight. So many Joker personas and posts on Facebook.


ReservoirPussy

Then the ladies did it with Harley Quinn. Then the guys did it again with the Joaquin Phoenix Joker. It's so gross that I want to shower.


tobbe1337

that makes me mad lol.


Grabs_Zel

Here in Brazil people were actually shocked (ha), the dub team did a great job, they definitely didn't make it sound like a "puny god" moment.


0zer0zer0

I don't even understand how that line could be delivered in a funny way. Is there any way you could describe it?


SpikeyTaco

After the release of Infinity War, before the release of End Game, Thanos' dialogue to Thor "You should have gone for the Head." became a huge meme. Potentially among the most quoted lines out of the whole film. The "I went for the head." moment, for people who have been waiting for the release and seen all the memes, could have easily seen this as a satisfying moment and potentially a reference. At that point, even the serious, heartbreaking delivery could be seen as a joke for many. A slight change to the delivery, if more light-hearted, would really confirm that for audiences. I understood it's weight and how much it impacted the character but the line did almost make me laugh. I wasn't expecting the exact words so it felt like a reference to the memes, despite it being a response to what Thanos told him to do.


ChristphrDVS

Rhodey had no chill in Endgame


Redditer51

I wonder if by Endgame he was just like "I wanted to have a military career, now I'm fighting galactic conquerors and dealing with drunk Norse gods and aliens and cosmic WMDS, I got paralyzed by my best friend's sentient british robot! I did NOT sign up for this BULLSHIT, man!"


[deleted]

Cinemawins made a good point about this - 2 things, the first is that Rhodes is punching up here, as a human sidekick. The second is that Rhodes clearly has his own trauma he's struggling with and that sarcasm is his defense mechanism to keep the monsters away. I will add that Rhodes and Thor have the most realistic depictions of what men struggling with depression look like outside of like... Bojack Horseman. Rhodes lost more than most avengers. He was crippled by his own friends. That had to sting. And yeah he absolutely didn't sign up for this, but this is the mission so he doesn't get a choice. He pushes the darkness down like a good soldier and makes a sarcastic quip to make everyone think he's fine. It's also possible that Rhodes resents Thor in particular for being absent in the years since the snap.


grim_melee

He had no chill in Iron Man 2 or Civil War either.


putnamto

honestly, he just has no chill at all. he is a war machine


KimDongTheILLEST

Boom! You looking for this?


PossessedToSkate

"..."


Perfide01

...I *said*, BOOM you looking for this?


GiveToOedipus

"..."


Pwnage_Peanut

I sai- why do I even talk to you guys?


N00b451

Is that the whole story?


SilentB3ast

What’s up, regular sized man?


Glennmaster7

Don Cheadle word of the day: "burn"


Ryolu35603

I feel like he had some chill in Infinity War. Ross: Arrest them Rhodes: All over it. *Deactivates holoprojector. Turns to Cap, shrugs* That’s a court martial.


butsadlyiamonlyaneel

He was able to briefly redirect his chill at a worthy target.


th30be

Remember when they tried to do iron patriot and then promptly dropped that?


Vash712

I'm betting norman osborne brings it back for the thunderbolts Iron Patriot and US agent its gotta happen


Ponies59

Rhodey just has no chill


cyan386

IM2: no chill Civil War: no chill no legs


retspih

IM2: no chill Civil War: no chill, no legs Endgame: no chill, no legs, no best friend


Iamthesmartest

Damn lol


brownkidBravado

FATWS: some chill, minimal lines, award nomination


WmFoster

Terrence Howard took all the chill with him.


finmoore3

Next time, baby


verneforchat

His scenes with Nebula were decent.


shadster23

Who is one of the only other disfigured soldiers.


Roook36

Felt like it was maybe the first time someone with enhancements talked to Nebula about hers. And in a "I can empathize" way she wasn't used to. At first I thought "what a weird team up" but then it made perfect sense those two could bond a little


JesusChristJerry

Would someone mind telling me what happens in this scene that OP posted? I cannot recall


iateapietod

Pretty sure this is when Thor says "What do you think is coursing through my veins right now?" And Rhodey responds "Cheese Whiz". When they're discussing who should snap their friggin fingers.


whentheraincomes66

Weirdly that works for me Edit: as in fits his character its inappropriate how he talks about thor in endgame


ndu867

Getting semi-paralyzed (not sure what his situation was exactly, I guess he could walk with the help of Stark’s prosthetics? I doubt he could run normally, REALLY doubt he could sprint, and without the prosthetics I’m pretty confident he’s still paralyzed) will do that to a guy. It makes sense for his character.


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3nchilada5

Same! Also I feel like it’s pretty clear that’s how he’s dealing with his grief. He’s trying to always make jokes, even when they shouldn’t be made, to avoid his sadness over the snap.


LavisAlex

It was hilarious, but Korgs comments as Asgard exploded lol An entire race was slaughtered and their homeland exploded and the humour really removed the impact of that espcially when watching Loki.


I_dont_like_things

I loved everything on Sakaar in Ragnarok, but the actual Ragnarok portion was a lot less emotional than it probably should have been.


woozlewuzzle29

I’ve always felt like Ragnarok was too jokey, but you summed it up very well. Thor lost his father, his friends, his eye, and his realm, and I’m just waiting for Korg to slip on a banana peel and land face-first into a pie.


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DisturbedNocturne

I think that started more with Joss Whedon and *Avengers*. Not that there wasn't humor in the MCU prior to that, but it really seemed to shift things towards the quippy dialogue we frequently see now. And given it was one of the most successful films of all-time, it's not surprising so many other films started to try to emulate that tone.


1033149

I disagree that it started with Avengers even though it had quippy dialogue. Avengers took its time and really let the characters sit with coulson's death and mourn after the helicarrier fight. A lot of the more emotional/darker moments in the film weren't undercut by humor. At most, when Natasha is baiting Loki to reveal his plan. Guardians really started the whole, at the scene's highest tension point, undercut it, especially with the dance off at the end.


magpye1983

So what you’re saying is Planet Hulk was a good movie, it’s a shame they sandwiched Ragnarok around it.


Deastrumquodvicis

That’s the one thing I didn’t like about Ragnarok. There was no gravitas for the deaths of the Warriors Three, very little for Odin, and the 9000+ people dying for the “greater good”, and it shouldn’t be handled in a comedy.


BatmanDK316

This right here, like if they'd just given it 30 more seconds to sink in it wouldn't have been so bad. They just suck the emotion out of the scene ugh


Brjgjdj5788

Every line out of Hayward's mouth. He could have been An interesting antagonist, especially when you consider his distrust towards Wanda is perfectly reasonable, but the writers had him act like a dumb jerk to prevent viewers from supporting him Do you even immagine how much better Wandavision could have been if Hayward had been allowed to act like a normal human being? If the series arknowledged that maybe he had good reasons to be wary of a former metahuman terrorist who literally took hostage An entire city? We didn't get any of that. Instead we got a villain with less personality than a rock


greetedworm

I think Hayward could have been a great villain, he mentions early on how tough it was for him post-snap, they could've played on that more and give some nuance to his actions like they did with Zemo. Instead, they made him shoot at fake kids for no reason.


Scops

His whole conversation with Wanda about Vision being too valuable to bury made total sense. His body was made out of the rarest metal on the planet and had crazy advanced weapon systems built into it. It was completely unreasonable to hide it away just to help one person grieve. But he was just such a *dick* in his delivery that we didn't want to agree with him.


suss2it

I mean that's not the only reason to hide it away. As you said, Vision's body is pretty powerful so you'd also want to keep it out the hands of government agencies that have been pretty recently exposed to have been infiltrated by Hydra for the past like 70 years.


Jaded-Ad-9287

I also find it hard to believe that he was doing it without the governments approval as well.


Tekki777

One of my biggest problems with Hayward was how cartoonish he was. I would've loved it if he was like a Iron Giant "Mansley" type character where they're emphasizing how paranoid he is, but no. He's just an uncreative dumbass of a villain who felt like he was shoved in there just because.


Vysharra

He could have been a *perfect* ‘just following orders’/‘it was my *job*’ sort of villain. Like, yeah, he did bad things but the world went crazy and we were throwing everything at the wall to save it. Does that make people bad or systems or everyone? We could have had some nuance (and fuel for the fan wars). It could have been epic ‘banality of evil’ and instead we just got ‘bland evil’.


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bicyclesandicecream

Should have just kept her as a sympathetic villain. They just ruined her character, to set up Sharron “power broker” Carter. Don’t even get me started on that 🤦‍♂️


MRPO0PYBUTTHOLE

That twist borderline pissed me off ngl.


Texomond

I wouldn't even consider it a twist with how obvious it was. A lot of people were thinking she was the Power Broker as soon as she was seen living in a big fancy apartment after supposedly being "on the run" In fact I even remember people being like "she can't be the Power Broker, _that'd be stupid_" before the finale Well, it happened


Opus_723

I mean it's not super obvious because some of the things she does are incredibly stupid decisions for the Power Broker to make. Like why the hell would she lead all of them to the serum scientist, leave them all alone with him, and fight off a million goons she hired? I thought the reveal was going to be that she was working with the Flag Smashers, it would have made way more sense for her character and her situation post-blip.


Texomond

> I mean it's not super obvious because some of the things she does are incredibly stupid decisions for the Power Broker to make. Like why the hell would she lead all of them to the serum scientist, leave them all alone with him, and fight off a million goons she hired? Yep, that's exactly why people were thinking it's dumb. But by episode 5, there was really no other candidate for the Power Broker, so all signs were pointing at her, even if it didn't make any sense


brother_of_menelaus

I’m willing to let a fair amount of FatWS slide because the main plot was about trying to cause a pandemic and then it turned out that was going to hit a little too close to home so they had to make major edits, and that couldn’t have been easy


DeKosterIsNietDom

It doesn't even make any sense. She puts a bounty on the guys' heads only to then lead them to her biggest asset (the scientist guy) where she fights off the bounty hunters she hired in the first place.


KeepRooting4Yourself

Agreed. They made him be a one note, stereotypical villain because they couldn't figure out how else to manipulate the viewers. It's why monica, darcy and jimmy always had to shit on the guy. Because if the viewer wasn't constantly being fed the narrative that this man here was the baddie, they'd promptly conclude that what wanda was doing was unequivocally evil. That she was always the villain here with her atrocious abuse of power.


yoboi_nicossman

But she WAS always the villain… Idgas about Agatha. She kidnapped and mentally tortured an entire town, ffs!!!


GkNova

*After the towns citizens were literally begging to die* Monica: They don’t know what you sacrificed for them


nagurski03

> his distrust towards Wanda is perfectly reasonable Even with the benefit of hindsight and perfect knowledge of the situation, it was super fucked up what she was doing. For the whole first half of that show before they had him start being cartoonishly bad, I kept thinking to myself that he was doing the much more sensible smart thing, and that Monica Rambeau was being wildly irresponsible and taking absurd risks.


thewatcheruatu

Oh, god. Same. At the beginning of the series, I thought the writers were going to surprise me and actually portray Hayward as reasonable by the end. Like, they would make you question his motives by having Monica be kind of an ass to him, but then turn it around and be like, No, this is the one guy who understands the stakes and is willing to be a responsible adult about it. But then they just... didn't. He really was just a cartoon all along.


Marcusreddit_

Definitely the scene with Monica and Wanda after she freed their town. Those people were trapped and fucked up for the rest of their life. Some of them were parents.


Zwelph

I think they should have grabbed and thrown stones and all kinds of screaming. DEFINITELY a few thousand candidate super-villains there.


ThrowawayProse

No, the more realistic response would be for them to be scared and run away from her. Instead they just gave her the stank eye after she fought Agatha. If I were there I would’ve taken my kids and ran as far away as possible.


Zwelph

it needed more something


DoctorJJWho

Yeah, remember the 8 year old girl who wasn’t allowed to leave her room? I’m not sure how Wanda’s powers worked, but if that girl didn’t die, her mom would’ve loaded her into the car and started driving in the opposite direction *instantly.*


JesusNotThat

Aside from the stare down she received, further antagonizing the person who had just enslaved an entire town sounds like a really bad idea


Zwelph

dude ...mind control for days would be worse than solitary confinement for days. A bunch of those people have committed suicide and have ptsd++ down the road. Screaming "MONSTER!!" at your mind rapist isn't something you think out.


dibs234

They were fucking terrified of her. She just enslaved your whole town for months for no reason (as far as the town knew), who knows what she will do if some bumblefuck pisses her off


lakovsanite

You arent wrong for the most part but it was actually only a week


dibs234

A week outside, but they said that time passed differnty inside the hex. Its unclear how long it felt like, but its implied it felt much longer.


Magnetic__Nachos

You could also see how agonizing it was for the people she was controlling too, like when the mother begs Wanda to just let her hold her own child.


BQws_2

Pretty sure those people are too scared to do anything in fear of her doing it again, or something even worse.


peekochoo2

Considering racism is a big part of the mutants I feel like the events of WV on might be a reason why so many people hate mutants


Jun_Kun

I’d love that to be a plot point of Multiverse of Madness that helps establish mutants in the MCU.


bicyclesandicecream

Falcon and Winter Soldier are setting up the racism aspect I think. 50% of people have no homes and are starting to develop “mutations” it’s a geopolitical nightmare.


advester

Having the mutant powers show up as a possible result of being blipped would be interesting.


Vulkan192

I’d kinda want them to have always been around, but in the shadows, and then the blip somehow activates more people’s dormant mutations. ‘cause Magneto’s character is SO intertwined with both his mutanthood AND his experience in the Holocaust that making him just suddenly discover his powers after the blip doesn’t seem right.


shockstreet

It's awkward with how old Magneto would be at this point, but I'm sure they can figure out a way around that. Unless he is just old as hell with a big white beard, that'd be sick


Vulkan192

Eh, just say the X-Gene also slowed his aging. A hand wave, sure, but it’ll do.


shockstreet

I mean secondary mutations are a thing in the comics, that makes it less handwavey


noobspree500

"Nah those foundations are gone" it was a funny moment, but come on, Thor is watching his home get destroyed right before his eyes


Threash78

All the constant shitting on ant-man for absolutely no reason in endgame, wtf? he's the sole reason you fucks even have a chance.


Seemseasy

Woulda been an epic set-up if the original endgame ant-man script had been used.


Fratboy37

This is the first I’m hearing about it, mind sharing a little more ?


painspinner

“I went for the Thanus“


cbekel3618

“They will never know what you sacrificed” Right after spending the season having a town imprisoned. Like I understand the sentiment and I still like the show, but I feel like that sentence could’ve been better phrased or that they could’ve gone with a different line.


frankwalsingham

A lot of what Monica says regarding Wanda is really bizarre.


LoveWaffle1

I have never seen a movie or TV series so thoroughly shoot itself in the foot with exactly one line. The thing Wanda sacrificed for the people of Westview is exactly what she tortured them for weeks to have. Like, the problem with the *WandaVision* finale isn't that Wanda gets off without having to face consequences for what she did, but that the show doesn't seem to think that she should.


cayoperico16

The one featured in the picture, Tony and Steve kinda looked like he was starting to get a feel about what Thor was going through but throughout the whole movie everyone’s joking about his depression. I really wish depression and healing were a bigger factor in endgame


ASLane0

Honestly, while I don't think that line was a pleasant thing for Rhodey to say, I'd go out on a limb and say people in a post snap world were likely in one of two camps: therapy like we see in the opening, or completely dead to other peoples' pain. Rhodey is a military man who served loooooong before the forces started caring about anything to do with wellbeing, so I saw the comment as perfectly in-character.


Never-Forget-Trogdor

I agree with this. While not the most empathetic thing to say, it very much felt like something Rhodey would say.


PlentyOfMoxie

Yeah and Thor points at him like "Imma get you for that but there's other things I'm dealing with now"


misterpickles69

And that shows he's healing a bit after having talked with his mom and finding out he's still worthy of the hammer.


Excentricappendage

The scene with his mom was so sweet and needed.


TotesMyMainAcct

Rhodes was a bit of a dick in Endgame, save for that Nebula scene on Morag.


ShitpostinRuS

All the stuff making fun of Thor was rather upsetting. Guys in mourning. He’s depressed. He fucked up. And they just make fun of him


Armistice8175

Yeah. Were we just supposed to think that it was hilarious that this man had fallen so far? He was a golden God on top of the world and he fell to the point of just sitting in a dark living room getting drunk all day. Why would that be funny?


Lunchmonkey

Its funny in a dark relatable way for lots of people. Like a suicide/anxiety joke between other people who are in a similar spot, it may not be objectively funny but I still laugh at fat thor and I still tear up when he borrows the hammer.


CO303Throwaway

I posted a comment agreeing above that it was a tone deaf joke, but I don’t want to be a total Killjoy, and so I will admit the irony of it is def funny, and the set up and delivery are good enough that there is a nice, guilty laugh possible when they reveal just how out of shape he has become. But I think it works best if it was just one joke. One joke, as others are shocked to see the state he’s in, he all laugh too, move on. Everyone constantly dunking on him about it made it go from guilty laugh at Thor’s expense to feeling bad for him.


lightningandmadness

I thought it was funny and relatable, yet a similarly morbidly obese and clinically depressed friend was insulted.


Sparrowsabre7

Everyone says everyone made fun of him but it's only really Rhodey and Rocket who make fun of him. And Rhodey has always been kind of mean in his sense of humour being an army guy and Rocket has always been an asshole but is also close with Thor so they understand each other, it's more of a tough love kind of deal. I think the only other comment about Thor's appsarance is Tony calling him Lebowski but that was just about his dress sense, not his weight and Tony has always given people nicknames throughout the series.


gcanders1

I always considered that a half compliment. Lebowski is a well-like character. Sure, 1/2 is an insult because he looks like a lazy bum, but choosing Lebowski for that line humanized Thor a bit more for me.


Bartfuck

plus played by Jeff Bridges who played Obadiah in the 1st Iron Man


EastHillWill

Thor should have kicked Rhodey through the wall here


UKballer24

I honestly didn’t mind the humor but my man just had this heart to heart with his mom. Found out he was still worthy and I got up in my feels when this happened. He pleads his case that he wants to do something for his team only to be told “cheese whiz”. Idk. It’s funny I get it. But I’m a Thor fan boy. If that didn’t show already lol


Slobotic

That actually would've made the entire scene work. Include the cheese wiz crack, and then have someone actually get angry because their tragedy is being used as fodder. Hits both notes at once, and even makes the audience feel bad for laughing. "Do you really want your final words to be 'cheese wiz'?"


IneptusMechanicus

It'd be a very different scene but I would sort of would have loved that, Thor just backhands him through a wall and makes it clear he's had enough, we're all done laughing at fat depressed Thor now. Or if everyone had just turned and stared at him in silence like the entire crew do in that Voyager episode where Neelix suggests defeating the avatar of fear by having a laugh, like 'I literally can't believe you said that you absolute idiot' until Rhodes gets uncomfortable and mumbles an apology.


Gummy-Worm-Guy

Honestly, a lot of them. I love the MCU but its biggest problem(aside from its fake deaths) is how it’s constantly degrading tense, great, emotional, or powerful moments by throwing in terrible jokes.


ha_look_at_that_nerd

Sometimes it does work. Like in Ant-Man, when Thomas the Tank-engine is barreling towards Yellowjacket and then we pull out and see how small it is, that’s great. But not every movie, and not every moment, needs to do that. It also doesn’t help that a lot of the jokes are *really* not funny. I think some writers and directors in the MCU have an eye for comedy… and some *don’t*


ogrezilla

absolutely this. They shouldn't stop doing these kinds of jokes. They just mistime a lot of them. Or yeah, a lot just aren't funny. But the cool moment being broken up with a joke only works if you sometimes let the cool moments just be cool moments.


breadburn

I feel like this is just How Marvel Is Now, post-GotG. That movie felt really unique and funny and cool in its own way, but it worked so well that I think Marvel decided that's how they want everything to be, going forward. This was my biggest issue with Ragnarok, too, and I'm a HUGE fan of Taika and everything else he's ever done. Their whole thing seems to be, 'You like jokes?? We heard you like jokes!!!! Here's all the jokes, we know you like 'em!' It's like Marvel caught us smoking one cigarette and is now making us finish the whole pack as punishment.


OG-mother-earth

So glad someone else feels this way! I never watched the movies as they came out, but went through and watched everything sometime last year. The first thing I picked up on was the shift that happened after Guardians of the Galaxy. It really bothered me, because GotG IS really funny, but that made the forced humor in following movies even harder to sit through. Don't make things funny just for the sake of calling it a comedy. That really weakens the movie imo.


Zeabos

The problem is Guardians is funny because it actually has jokes. There are actual setups and payoffs that can take half the movie to play out. There’s also clear visual comedy etc. Most of the humor in the other movies is just one liners or insults.


thekidfromthenorth

My biggest gripe too. I watched Shang-Chi, and it felt like a bunch of moments were ruined by adding some jokes. Honestly wouldn't be against a serious Marvel movie with a small number of jokes.


Rs90

Man a Marvel film with the same tension as Hawkeye's family in Endgame would be interesting. It's such a fucked up scene when the sound of birds just fades away. Oof. Edit- and for those bringing up mental health in the MCU, this is a good one. Trauma. A sudden car accident can end a family as fast as a snap of the fingers. I'd imagine youd have the same derealization as Hawkeye in a traumatic event like that. The scene shook me in that way.


Dscherb24

It’s one of the reasons I really like IM3. It isn’t perfect by any means, but it’s the most any Marvel movie does with dealing with trauma and anxiety and sacrifice to me. It’s just one of the few where I can feel how messed up Tony feels thru the movie. RDJ brought so much to Tony and showing his constant pain, feeling of doubt, etc. I think Sam does this a bit too, Hawkeye as well. Bit with Sebastian Stan. But RDJ/Tony were the best at it to me.


wutadisaster

yes! the problem with Shang-chi is you had his friend who was the comedic character then they introduced ben kingsly character who was another comedic character. its like we don't need this many people making jokes


AmeriCanadian98

Thats interesting, I thought Shang Chi was overall better with the timing of when jokes happened than the majority of MCU movies. It definitely still had some of the innapropriate joke timing, but for me anyway that movie did it pretty well


jando_bo

Most of the humour in black widow. Particularly the red guardian scenes - he’s a character with genuine regrets, but they all got played off for humour. A shame since David Harbour is great at emotional scenes, but he just wasn’t given the chance


captainnermy

It’s weird, in the intro he comes across as a man trying his best to play dad, while still ultimately being totally competent and committed to his job. Then for the rest of the movie he’s just a bumbling, egotistical idiot with seemingly no social skills or understanding of the situations he’s in. He's doesn't even get to prove himself in the fight with Taskmaster.


OK_Soda

He even does a perfect American accent, in private, while they're escaping. Then he spends the rest of the movie with totally broken English. My headcanon is the accent and the incompetence are all because he spent so long in the gulag or whatever. He just lost all his skills.


AliasHandler

I mean, when you’ve spent years undercover 100% of the time, it probably isn’t easy to snap right back into your old accent and mannerisms.


checker280

To be fair, he was put in prison for his years of loyalty and separated from his family after trying to make the right compromises to both. I’m sure he had his world view turned on it’s head only to have the family that he betrayed rescue him.


ccbmtg

yeah the humor to me came off as him trying a bit hard to seem like a dad after all the conflict and those years imprisoned. ofc I was kinda drunk when I saw bw and need to re-watch it though haha. he just had very 'dad joke' vibes to me. i do love David Harbour though. didn't finish the hellboy reboot but he really did a great job as hellboy, fit the role as well or better than Perlman imo. honestly they both killed that character.


kii2times

To me its not that farfetched because I've seen first hand what old age does to people. They don't listen and they arent tactful. Plus he just came out of like 15???odd years in prison, those 2 cobbled together is not going produce a nuanced man. Also the cultural differences is a huge part of it. Alot of people around the world are not as emotional as americans/westerners, there's alot of 'get on with your life' attitudes around the world, while the west generally mulls over emotional stuff. You mix that together with the quibby dialogue of the MCU, you get the Red Guardian.


Tau_Iota

The old part I'm iffy on but the emotional stuff is spot on. My mom's side of the family is Slav through and through, and they really don't do emotional stuff. He bumbles because his "daughters" have grown up past him emotionally (Scarlett moreso, but even then not by much) so he kinda bumbles through being a caring father to them. Little children are much easier to emotionally cater to, which is why he seemed so understanding in the prologue. However, when it becomes far more complex he's struggling as he just doesn't get it. That's how you end up with "My father pissed on my hands!" He wasn't just telling a weird story about himself, he was trying to say "Just like my father had always done what it takes for me, I will do the same for you." And as a side note, another way people who aren't good with complex emotions will sidestep it with another conversation. Which is why he asks "Hey, has Cap ever mentioned me?" Idk, I think Red Guardian's character was written more complex than people give him credit. Or maybe I'm just looking to into it However I do wish he was more effective combat-wise. I got giddy when I saw him up against Task Master with a shield. I was like "Finally! He can live out his dream of fighting Cap through Task Master!" And then he bungled it, which imo really sucked.


filthydank_2099

Harbor was robbed of having meaningful arc and purpose in the film.


jando_bo

100% agree. Even during his “big” fight scene with task master, the movie kept cutting away to other things, just made him feel like a useless character when he shouldn’t have been


filthydank_2099

He was never going to beat TM, but him holding of TM for long enough to buy Nat, Melina and Yelena enough time to complete the mission and kill Dreykov would’ve been stellar. Losing the battle but winning the war, something to help him learn that victory doesn’t have to be purely about glory, but competing the mission. Sacrifice.


CharlieLoganQuinn

the avengers basically being like "lmao thors depressed what a fucking loser lmao"


TR7237

Not only the avengers but the writers as well. My mouth literally dropped when they gave Thor a line about having a panic attack and it was played off as a joke


fizzymcdang

But they take Tony’s panic attacks so seriously in IM3.


Juridikum

He wasn't fat tho


ccbmtg

yeah as somebody who's struggled with panic for most of their lives and is legitimately agoraphobic, stuff like that is a bit annoying. but then again, it's more conversation about mental health than we seem to really be having in most other cases. I really appreciated the Jessica Jones series for how they discuss what it's like for a hero to legit have ptsd. it's tonedeaf to think that just because they're heroes, they're not still subject to trauma from the crazy shit they do or guilt from when they fail. iron man 3 did a great job of this as well iirc.


Arthas101117

Chesse whiz? Definitely cheese whiz for me.


AnxietyLogic

The constant mocking of Thor’s depression in Endgame. It really drags down the film for me.


elfonski

Personally, as someone depressed I felt like he felt at home with them because they’re throwing quick jabs that could be brushed off. Almost as if they’re recognizing what’s wrong with him or what he wants to fix


Tim_Hag

Like every joke I the What If zombie episode


TardDas

One thing that I hated in that episode was the way Bucky kills Cap. His best friend for like a hundred years and he doesn't feel any sadness or regret in having to kill him, just mercilessly says "guess this is the end of the line"


LloydtheLlama47

I’m usually not one to throw a huge fit when a dramatic moment is undercut by comedy I don’t love it but I’m used to it after 13 years. But Sharon saying “pew” when mercy killing Happy is some of the worst writing in the MCU


TheCatalyst0117

Right. One of my least favorite What If episodes just because I felt like they didn't stick the landing on most things. Like there was no empathy for killing zombie teammates. Even as one party member sacrifices himself and turns into a zombie, they just take him out and move on with little to no grieving. Then when they are shown proof of a potential cure for someone whose turned into a Zombie, there was no reflection of "Oh wow. We just killed all our friends when we could've turned them back to humans." Also, Episode 9 was one of my favorite episodes because they tie every episode together very well, except for the zombies. For some reason, they bring a Zombie hero to fight the big bag guy, when they could've brought the BIG Zombie shown at the cliffhanging end of the Zombie episode. Now we have no idea what happened there and it was just weird they didn't utilize him in the big fight.


RekklesDriver

It’s not like zombie thanos made much sense anyways


Sexymonke6

Holy shit that episode was so bad


el_palmera

Guess this is the end of the line


Cow_Other

Anything involving ant man in Endgame. My guy popped out of nowhere with the greatest plan ever, saving the most people ever and he's the butt of the jokes. Thor's moments about his depression being reduced to jokes. Those just had me cringing. Nevermind the in-universe reason, the fact that the narrative around those bits of dialogues is that they're supposed to be humorous is just sickening.


MimsyIsGianna

Scott Lang deserves better


BigManReef

For real. Ant man 1 introduces him as this witty loveavle macgyver type and after his character changes to a dumbass who just knows how to use the suit and that’s it


tommywest_123

Neubula’s meaningful monologue in GOTG2 which is cut with joke


Mr-Stuff-Doer

TBF any reasonable reaction to something like that would’ve been comedic. He barely knew her and she just dropped THAT. Also, the more noteworthy scene is the one with her and Gamora, and that has no joke.


Illier1

Yeah that speech was the most "sir, this is a Wendy's" joke I've heard lol


Conovar

Was searching the thread for this. This is my biggest complaint about gotg 2. Was too high on the love for 1 and went way too far on the humour.


odonovantimmy

The entire Zombie episode of What If. Especially the second Paul Rudd showed up.


ANuclearsquid

Close friend is dragged off to be murdered in front of him “watch out I hear she is a man eater”.


TheGhostofCipher

Hope bursts through her comrades dead corpse, her friends blood all over her "Uh guys. I got sharon all over me"


agreatskua

Korg at the destruction of Asgard.


Rand0m3rrrr

I felt bad for laughing at this one. I know it was suppose to be a serious moment but Korgs accent just kills me😂


filthydank_2099

Taika has insanely good comedic timing and inflection. I agree, it’s hard not to want to laugh at it. But still, cmon...


princekurry

Good thing is Taika himself spoke about this exact situation with the scene and how they debated if this would undercut the emotions. I dont rememvber the reasoning they gave to put the scene in there but its not like they were completely oblivious


idcris98

When Hope said “I’m covered in Sharon” after she just died a couple seconds ago. That’s the most incredible writing I’ve ever seen from a show/movie when reacting to your friend dying. I didn’t like What If? for that exact reason. Some lines just didn’t make sense for the characters. It didn’t feel like the same characters from the MCU.


ReDSauCe3

Honestly that episode stood out to me as having the most irritating dialogue. I mean, Scott, you’re cool, but shut the fuck up.


ChandlerBaggins

Lines like that or Bucky's after Sam was dead are why despite the horror and depressing setting I didn't feel any of the stakes at all. These characters don't care about each other. It made all their efforts seem pointless.


raperm

Wanda Vision. One line. “They’ll never know how much you sacrificed.” What. The. Fuck. This woman imprisoned an entire town and treated them like meat puppets. Because she was sad her robot boyfriend died. Well damn, woman, to quote a raccoon “we all got dead people.” NO excuse. And that line felt like some kind of attempt at justifying what she had done. So pointless and tone deaf to try to excuse what she did.


MasterDeagle

This line made me hate Monica more than Wanda. You could feel Wanda's regret during the full episode until the end. They really created a super cool caracther in Monica to only ruined it with one last line.


pinkycatcher

>They really created a super cool caracther in Monica to only ruined it with one last line. She started really cool, but by the middle she was generic laser beam super hero with no motivation that I cared about.


rajatGod512

cHeEzE wHiZ


bsischo

When War machine drops down and Mocks Ant Man. I mean seriously, the only reason all those people got to come back was because of him and he gets made fun of????


sixtytwosixtyseven

Hulk is the only good guy in that scene. Everyone else just bullied the guy that saved the world (with the help of a rat).


TheObstruction

He hasn't actually done anything yet. And it's clearly a reference to him being giant in Civil War. That's directly relevant to Rhodes, since Giant Man caught War Machine while flying.


DarkAlatreon

Guess he has a grudge with how he grabbed him in his giant form in Civil War.


MiloReyes-97

I guess he was still a little ticked about having to fight a Giant who got the drop on him that one time. I don't think they we're trying to be malicious but he was still a stranger to everyone.


morning_3107

Thor: Do you know what is coursing through my veins right now? Rhodes : cheezwhiz? This was in extremely bad taste. The guy lost his father, his friends, his planet, his subjects, his brother & the chance to save half the population in a matter of few days, he went from being the golden prince of the Golden realm to being a loser & a drunkard in his own eyes, his self respect was at an all time low, everything that could go wrong had went wrong with him. He had a literal panic attack, the mention of Thanos's name brought him to tears & what oppurtunity does all this emotional vulnerablity give Marvel? Not the oppurtunity to address grief , coping & depresession ; but the opportunity to make fat jokes? Like are you for real? Clint went all out murdering people but no1 judges him, but every1 needs to have a laugh at the expense of the fat alcoholic guy .


ProfHatecraft

Banner talking about trying to commit suicide. 'I got low'. And then it's never talked about again. No one ever checks on him, or worries about his mental state. Dude tried to eat a bullet and it was turned in to a cringey piece of Joss Whedon dialogue for 10 seconds and then moved on.


filthydank_2099

That’s such a hardcore and dark piece of the film. I really wish they’d given Ruffalo a solo film where the internal struggle isn’t the usual man vs beast conflict inside, but Bruce struggling with his own mortality and whether it’s worth it to live. I agree. If it had been touched on and developed its own arc of some kind, it would be impactful.


ProfHatecraft

I would totally watch a film about Bruce contemplating the Myth of Sisyphus and embracing the absurdity of life.


dirtyhappythoughts

In that same scene, Bruce states "so I moved on". He's not suicidal anymore, he was at some point but he's over that, changed his priorities and by Avengers 2 was in a good place with the Avengers. After that, nobody could really check up on him since he was missing. The only reason Bruce said that at that point was as a threat, to point out that the rest couldn't try and control him but that they should fear the Hulk.


WR810

"and the other guy spit it out" is probably my favorite line in the MCU.


Kilzi

I still can’t stand Sam holding someone who blew up innocents in his arms like an angel and telling everyone not to call her a terrorist


mutual_raid

It's ridiculous because they realized that Karli and the Flag Smashers were too sympathetic and so made her do something that made no sense whatsoever, not only for her character, but for the ideology the Flag Smasher espouse (blow up innocent people which doesn't in any way attack those responsible for the system they hate) but then they want to also act like she was still the person she was before killing loads of innocents to play both sides. You either play her coherently and have the Flag Smashers be right but going against the State apparatus and their Avengers foot soldiers played straight and own that, or you don't have Cap treat her like a misguided youth after murdering rando innocents. You can't have both.


VLDT

It’s standard practice in movies when a villain edges toward being too sympathetic. It’s not just Marvel but they do have some of the clearest recent examples. Killmonger making sense about the mistreatment of a majority of the world through exploitation by an elite minority? Have him kill his girlfriend. Thanos having a point about the overconsumption of resources while having incredible technology that could help solve those issues? Naw he’ll just have a nonsense plan to kill half of everyone. Mordo worried about the abuse of magic posing an existential threat to reality? Tear pangborn’s life away. Zemo having legitimate concerns about metahuman collateral damage? International super terrorist. It’s not wholly unrealistic but within the confines of a movie length narrative it does give people a lot of space to criticize the seeming personality shifts.


FKDotFitzgerald

Felt like a Naruto filler episode lmao. I liked the main themes and even Sam’s speech but the whole Flag Smasher plot was goofy