T O P
rabbiteatscarrot1028

Kiyoha, 23 yo former maiko spoke up about what she went through during her days in Kyoto. She was forced to drink at the age of 16 and her geisha house owner made her take a bath with one of her customers. Most of the maiko are 15-19 yo and they aren't allowed to have smartphones to cut out all the connections from outside. Most of them barely get paid, and even if they do it's below minimum wage. Edit: I finally figured out how to post pics on this subreddit [English ver](https://imgur.com/gallery/fvDm8er) [Very first web article about this topic](https://unseenjapan.com/abuse-in-the-geisha-world-former-maiko-speaks-out/) Update: One Japanese magazine (Josei-Jishin) apparently DMed her to cover this topic! Only one so far but it feels good to see that not all the Japanese media is rotten.


Foxcecil

Cool Japan


STD_CONNOISSEUR

A country where women shine. Or was it シネ I can’t remember


rabbiteatscarrot1028

We yeah fucking シネing


ext23

They definitely have smartphones, I have seen them using them.


daisychan

It may depend on the house the maiko-san belongs to. Some houses are more lenient than others (according to a tweet I saw addressing this issue


Chiemoo

Unless you saw them in お座敷, most likely they were cosplaying tourists. Or you are mixing up 芸妓(adult geisha) with 舞妓(underage apprentice). Also the rules and customs wildly vary depending on which one of five 花街 they belong to.


ext23

I lived in Gion for years, I know the difference between a tourist and the real thing.


[deleted]

[удалено]


smashgaijin

FYI Gion doesn’t have geisha. They’re maiko. Geisha’s are in Tokyo.


rabbiteatscarrot1028

Most of them don't. They sometimes get one to contact their house owner while they are taking lessons but they have to return it once they're home.


HibasakiSanjuro

>They definitely have smartphones, I have seen them using them. Someone makes this comment and they get 20 net downvotes? Jesus, what is wrong with this sub?


KuraiTheBaka

Reddit really enjoys being like “No you’re wrong and you’re a dumbass and a child murderer!” In response to about everything.


HibasakiSanjuro

Yeah, I've seen people on this thread accuse okiya that have a house rule of "no phones for X period" as displaying cult-like behaviour and also child prostitution flags. I'm not sure what the next hysterical comparison is going to be.


[deleted]

[удалено]


fevredream

It's absolutely not the way modern geisha are advertised, and many young women join out of genuine interest. I'd also hazard that hostesses *also* shouldn't receive sexual harassment, and that in the case of the maiko in question she was literally 16 years old at the time.


fevredream

Hostesses are not “soft core prostitutes.” They’re not even strippers (who also don’t deserve sexual harassment or assault). While they may choose to have sex with some paying customers, that implies consent. Until that consent is given, groping or touching a hostess is just as much harassment as anything else.


ibeforetheu

Yeah, there are two things in the world, theory, and practice.


Suitable_Anybody_114

>While they may choose to have sex with some paying customers Isn't having sex with paying customers prostitution?


ninthtale

Dude this is straight up trafficking


fdokinawa

Not going to say you are totally wrong, but you are making a big generalization. We had a family friend's daughter stay with us last month after she spent a week at an Okiya. She grew up wanting to be a Geisha. Her family was completely normal. After my wife told me about the shit they put her through, nothing like the article, just normal horrible treatment.. it was all I could do to not go and cause an international incident. She was lucky to get a couple hours sleep a night, and had no time to eat. One of the Maiko was sneaking her candy because she was not eating or drinking (water). She was forced to sleep face down in a bowing position.. it was a couple nights before I finally saw her sleeping somewhat normally. If she had been my daughter and told me the things that happened to her, I would seriously be in jail right now. Fuck Geisha and the people that keep that whole system going.


girl_from_japan

This was a false account. (not saying the maiko problem isn't true, but "her" story was false)


rabbiteatscarrot1028

Do you have any sauce for that? 滝沢ガレソ already got the sauce to prove she worked at Pontocho as a maiko :」


girl_from_japan

oh shoot my bad it seemed it was true. [https://twitter.com/mezameruchan/status/1541118429913948160](https://twitter.com/mezameruchan/status/1541118429913948160) I read this tweet and thought she was faking it. It had an old screenshot of her saying she moved to Tokyo alone when she was 15. And the numbers didn't add up. (but now I guess she was a Maiko before turining 15 which makes things even worse)


92taurusj

Fantastic reminder for anyone reading that social media is not a reliable source for information.


greenl6ght

Do you have a source for that? (Not being accusatory, just genuinely curious)


HibasakiSanjuro

Being forced to bathe with a client would be unacceptable and would probably be sexual assault. However, issues like smartphones being "withheld" is trivial. Maiko voluntarily hand over phones as part of the agreement to get their training. They can get them back anytime by quitting. Or they can contact family by using a public payphone. As for pay, their tuition and lodging is free - clothing is rent free. So yes, they're not going to be paid full wages. But if they stick the course, they can earn many times that back. Edit: To the users silently downvoting me, at least explain why you think access to a smartphone is a human right or people should expect free tuition, housing and full pay. Every other educational institution demands fees upfront. Maiko are the only apprentices I know who don't have to pay a penny.


WonkyTelescope

Preventing people from contacting their friends and family is abuse. "My house" doesn't give you the right to isolate people from a primary means of communication.


HibasakiSanjuro

>Preventing people from contacting their friends and family is abuse. If the maiko were stopped from leaving, yes. But they're not. They can contact friends and family by walking out the door and reversing the charges on a payphone. And unless they're lied to, it's almost certain that they're told the score before they join or shortly afterwards. I'd question whether any trainee maiko could say they didn't know what the rules were. Even documentaries on maiko from a decade or more ago always had a segment on how the young maiko felt homesick because their access to phones was very limited. As well as other things like how they had limited pocket-money to start off with, had to do chores for the older girls, etc. >"My house" doesn't give you the right to isolate people from a primary means of communication. If you sign a contract and agree to teach me a trade, you have every right as part of the terms and conditions to set rules like using phones. You cannot stop me leaving, but I cannot force you to train me if I refuse to abide by your rules. From what I understand, maiko do not have their personal possessions confiscated. They voluntarily give them up, like some schools in various countries get students to hand over phones and other smart devices. The young women can have them back at any time, they just need to accept their training contract will be over.


WonkyTelescope

"They can contact their family, they just have to abandon their goals, even if they just need temporary emotional support." I don't know where you got the idea that hospitality training is more important than the well-being of human beings but you need to cut that out before you manage to convince someone else that decency and compassion for your fellow human is simply an inconvenience to be tossed aside when contract demands.


HibasakiSanjuro

Look, if being a maiko isn't worth temporarily losing the ability to call their parents, I would suggest it's not for the person in question. This happens **right at the start** of their training. They lose absolutely nothing by quitting or passing up the offer. Also, whilst I can't speak for every single place in Kyoto, it seems that most maiko are allowed to make family calls after they've settled in. >I don't know where you got the idea that hospitality training is more important than the well-being of human beings The maiko are given good food, a warm bed and free training in a profession that only the rich would be able to pay their own way in. They're also free to leave at any time. The idea that humans cannot survive without the ability to contact friends and family 24 hours a day is ludicrous. People managed before mobile phones.


sherril8

Cutting off communication is a key cult tactic. There is absolutely nothing about being a maiko that requires you to give up a mobile phone which is evident by the fact that some houses do allow them.


HibasakiSanjuro

>Cutting off communication is a key cult tactic. What does that have to do about maiko training? Are you accusing okiya you know nothing of and women you've never met of being part of a cult? Some parents deny their children access to mobile phones and the internet, either as punishment or as a method of raising them. Are parents like that members of a cult? Are schools that take away students' phones exhibiting cult behaviour? >There is absolutely nothing about being a maiko that requires you to give up a mobile phone I agree that it's arguable they shouldn't have to give up a phone as part of the contract. But that's up to the specific okiya. Just like some ryokan say "no children" or "no children under X", whilst others are fine with children of any age. Having visitors with children doesn't interfere with the running of the ryokan, nor does it stop the other guests enjoying themselves. It may seem mean, but it's up to those ryokan to decide how they do business. Similarly if an okiya says "we'll take you, but the rules are X including no phones until x weeks in" that's their right. If no one accepted those rules, they'd either have to shut down or change them. Honestly, there is something incredibly odd about this sub. People have no sense of perspective and are unable to accept conflicting opinions. Much like the Carlos Ghosn situation with everyone frothing at the mouth at the mere suggestion he was maybe in the wrong, and then being completely silent when the French issued an arrest warrant.


sherril8

I’ll be honest, you’re coming off as a creep by trying to defend a pointless and archaic rule that serves no purpose other than to establish more power over the girls. These are children and on top of that they live in a culture that heavily encourages conformity so if you can’t see how these girls are being taken advantage of by some of these establishments then you might need to step back a bit.


HibasakiSanjuro

>I’ll be honest, you’re coming off as a creep by trying to defend a pointless and archaic rule that serves no purpose other than to establish more power over the girls. And if I'm honest, you're coming across as a bully by using a term like "creep". That is a form of control, as you're trying to scare me into giving up my position or leaving the discussion. This is social media, not a workplace or social gathering where people are forming friendships. You (and others for that matter) should be able to deal with the fact someone may not share your position on when mobile phone usage can be restricted. This isn't about abortion rights in the US after the latest Supreme Court decision, it's a far, far less important issue. There is a difference between me "defending" the rule in that they're a good idea, and merely taking the position that it's not so objectionable as to be abuse - because that's what I've been talking about. > These are children It depends who we're talking about, because not all maiko start out under 18. But more importantly for those who are under 18, if we're going to say "well they're children" then they shouldn't be allowed to do any of this including working away from home until they're adults, period. Issues like phone usage are red herrings. If on the other hand it is ok for them to be doing things like staying up late to help their elder sisters coming back from appointments and doing household work for the others, I think we can discuss phones at the same time. >so if you can’t see how these girls are being taken advantage of by some of these establishments then you might need to step back a bit I disagree, I think you need to re-evaluate your position. This isn't Taisho or Meiji Japan where girls probably found it impossible to leave and had to pay off vast debts. As I've said repeatedly - and no one has challenged me - they can leave at any time. There is no evidence any of them are obliged to pay any money back if they leave, certainly in a way that is legally enforceable. So the idea that maiko are being manipulated or taken advantage of by being asked to voluntarily give up their phones in the earlier stages of their training does not hold water. Not least because some okiya **do** allow maiko to use phones more often. If a young woman voluntarily decides to join an okiya that has stricter rules than the rest, how on earth is that not her own choice?


soywasabi2

Welcome to the US 😂


Bilbo_Buggin

This is horrible to read but I’m not surprised.


CinnamonHotcake

I always thought the maiko thing only stayed for historical and entertainment purposes, not actual high class child prostitution... Very disappointing to hear. When I heard that there's a school for maikos that parents pay to send their children to, I assumed it's an actual private school with extra maiko lessons, I guess that was naive of me.


GerFubDhuw

I always assumed the opposite. High class escorts and prostitutes hidden behind a veneer of culture and history. Rich powerful old men, vulnerable young girls it doesn't take much imagination.


rabbiteatscarrot1028

Most of the time they don't need to pay the maiko school since some Maikos can have their own customers to earn enough money to pay for them, as well as others in the house. Depends on the house imo


AsianInvasian93

Yeah that’s fucked up. I was told maiko/geisha are there for non-sexual entertainment but this proves that wrong.


[deleted]

> I was told maiko/geisha aren’t there for non-sexual entertainment I'm sure you meant "*are* there for non-sexual entertainment"


AsianInvasian93

Thank you for pointing that out. Fixed


[deleted]

For a second I went *MOTHERFU-never mind, that was a typo* 😂


daiseikai

To be technical, that statement is usually made meaning that they are not there for clients to have sex with. Unfortunately it is easy for people to read that and think that they are also exempt from any other type of sexual exploitation, which is absolutely not the case.


saysaypomp

For what I've heard the situation the maiko/geiko live in it's quite different depeding on the tea house and the okaasan. Some are nicer and treat them well, they have smartphones and stuff. But others are very toxic/abusive places and some the girls quit pretty soon after their debut. I have met a few maikos at job related stuff and It always feels like I'm talking to a child, it's quite creepy that all these old men find that desirable. Geikos feel more mature and I get the appeal, they can be great entertainers and they are better dancers after practicing for so many years.


rabbiteatscarrot1028

Yeah depends but most of the houses force the girls to cut out all the connections and the houses in Pontocho area (where she used to work) known for most strict and toxic Geisha area. Also the real problem here is that all the maiko are 15-20yo and Kyoto set a special rule to allow them to consume alcohol and work after 10PM :( They are minors who are to be proteted yet Kyoto's literally ignoring them


saysaypomp

Yeah the whole system sucks, they say they need to be able to drink to entertain customers better but they should just stop training girls that young. But you know in this country the old men really like young girls/teenagers so...I don't think it's going to change for a while. I think the country should invest more money so the maikos don't need the private customers to survive and they can focus on the actual artistic part of their job. It would be sad if they dissapear completely.


rabbiteatscarrot1028

Yeah as a Japanese I can confirm that this country trully is pedo heaven and it will be like this for a long long time.


saysaypomp

It's actually so sad 😭


ibeforetheu

It will change with time. After all, young men will grow old and will have to have this predicament of their own. Be the change you want to see in the world.


askmekaigainiki

I didn't even know maiko can be that young. It's worse than 風俗.


rabbiteatscarrot1028

Definitely it is. At 風俗 at least you get paid.


rabbiteatscarrot1028

I translated her tweets about how Maiko are treated into English ver but I am not sure where to post on reddit. Any ideas?


studebaker103

post in the comments here?


rabbiteatscarrot1028

How can I post pics on comment section? Or you mean just write the whole thing here?


MejiroCherry

> How can I post pics on comment section? A common way is to upload the images to [Imgur](https://imgur.com/upload), or another image hosting site, and post the link.


rabbiteatscarrot1028

Ahhhh thanks! I will post the link in a bit


epistemic_epee

I know this is a little late but you can also use Google images to scan the text in an image. It only sort of works for Japanese but it scans English very well.


studebaker103

write it here, or post the pics to imgur and link here.


[deleted]

I love geisha parties and yeah maikos can be cute but just allowing them to interact with customers gives me the wrong vibe... Especially because people who hire only maiko aren't doing that because they like the make up. I'm disappointed but not surprised.


Zakcoo

Foreigner often say that kyoto maiko is prostitution as a joke. And japenese get angry saying it's culture and there is nothing fishy. It's just that foreigner aren't gullible and naive as fuck (but we are when it concerns ourselves ofc) , aside people that purposely don't want to see the darkness of society, when a job is about fresh young meat having contact with older men, even a blind can see the road and where it leads. Honestly just like for Hollywood and me-too I am not surprised, just like western people and especially American did a group syncope about their entertainment industry and the wake up was harsh even though we all knew but didn't want to admit it, Japanese have the same logic concerning their cultural nightly activities.


JapanEngineer

Fkn disgusting. Unfortunately nothing will come of it unless Japanese people make a big thing of it.


rabbiteatscarrot1028

Exactly. The situation about how maiko/geisha are treated has been a controversial topic for decades yet no Japanese media has ever focused on this problem.


AnivaBay

Good to see just how far the Twitter thread in question has gone in Japanese spaces, though. Over 11 thousand quote tweets alone.


JapanEngineer

This is what happens when a country is run by JiJis


rabbiteatscarrot1028

Horny Jijis"


easthie4

You really don't have to choose such words, seems like you're just intoxicated with your anger...


GerFubDhuw

In China Jiji is a childish word for penis. In Japan it's a word for an elderly dick.


Key-Mulberry-1953

“They just play cards and entertain…” “They just play cards and entertain old rich men… they can play musical instruments…” “They just drink and entertain old men… and bathe together…” “… there’s nothing sexual about it… it’s just cards and musical instruments!” “The age of consent has a 13… are you imposing modern culture on Japan!!”


Synaps4

> The age of consent has a 13 Isn't this only true in basically uninhabited corners of the country? I was told the individual provinces that cover the country all have their own more strict and more sensible age of consent.


GerFubDhuw

It's a national law. Most prefectures unofficially up the age by creating "corruption of minors" laws. It's kinda like how the USA has a national minimum wage of like $7, but minimum wage in the state of Nevada is about $10. So while it might be legal to have sex with a 13 year old, you'd be guilty of corrupting a minor with sexual activity. Which seems to carry the same punishment. Edit: I'm not a Japanese lawyer.


aoechamp

You do realize that the US sets no federal age of consent at all and that each state decides on their own right? Or that most states are at 16? It’s really no different from Japan.


GerFubDhuw

Well I'm not American, and I don't fuck children, so I don't really know anything about their laws in that regard.


jaqueass

Right. The age of consent is 13 in Japan in the same way it’s 0 in the US. In practice the age of consent is usually higher in Japan than in the US, where the majority of states are 16. But don’t let that stop Americans from sensationalizing it.


Thedaggerinthedark

"Federally." You're right, there are still laws from state to state (prefecture to prefecture?) that raise it closer to western averages.


yoyokazy

This is a typical Geisha culture from 250yrs ago


[deleted]

[удалено]


Gothjoose

I think Mineko Iwasaki’s version was a coverup for the truth. She told the truth and got heat, so tried to rectify it by lying.


CharmedBySnakes

Probably


rabbiteatscarrot1028

It is really disgusting. I think I will just post the translated version here but basically she was almost d Forced to sell her virginity yet she was going to get paid nothing for that


Sad_Butterscotch9057

What's the expression for something that's more obvious than 'open secret'?


Repulsive_Parfait_16

this is really disgusting!!


Mander2019

Kind of like jpop schools


smashgaijin

Yeah the JPop AKB bullshit is much worse than this.


Mander2019

Just like the Playboy mansion girls


biwook

What happened?


elppaple

idol culture is almost literally an exploitation conveyor belt


ilovebrusselsprouts

I wonder about the safety of this girl after she posted this...


rabbiteatscarrot1028

She is actually fine fight now. She mentioned she has an appointment with a journalist of female magazine soon.


HibasakiSanjuro

Why, what do you think 70 year old Kyoto women are going to do - wag their fingers at her? Japan isn't the backwaters of Calabria, she's not going to be disappeared for speaking out.


Gothjoose

Read up on Mineko Iwasaki.


ilovebrusselsprouts

Clearly you haven't been in Japan very long.


twistedstance

Elaborate.


kyoto_kinnuku

She’s talking about something that happened at her Maiko school. Why is everyone acting like it’s automatically something that happens at ***every*** Maiko school in the country ?


GerFubDhuw

Well we have one instance of it happening at one school. that's one too many. And if it happens in one school then we need to damn well make sure it's an isolated tragedy not industrialised child prostitution.


HibasakiSanjuro

Women are sexually assaulted in every country, all year round. It should be no surprise that maiko are exposed to these same dangers. More regulation to set clear lines may be needed. But why should anyone be surprised at this? Is it because maiko and geiko are part of fantasy Japan and it upsets people's views to hear about this sort of thing?


[deleted]

[удалено]


GerFubDhuw

Well that's a fucking leap. Make sure there's not more corruption to shut everything down.


kyoto_kinnuku

It’s not a fucking leap at all. People in this thread were calling for the whole geisha industry to be wiped out bc of this one incident. How is that different?


GerFubDhuw

How has that got anything to do with what I said?


kyoto_kinnuku

Because it’s a response to you saying “it’s a leap”, when in fact it wasn’t a leap. I’m commenting on all the people here foaming at the mouth to eradicate geisha culture from Japan. I almost wonder if some of these people are paid propaganda posters.


GerFubDhuw

Well maybe comment to them not to me.


kyoto_kinnuku

Dude…. ***you*** responded to ***me***. https://i.imgur.com/ZWD97nL.jpg https://i.imgur.com/SiToJ4K.jpg


GerFubDhuw

I did, saying that we need to make sure this is an isolated incident not an endemic one. I said nothing about shutting everything down. You are the one that brought up shutting everything down, not me. >You: don't act like it's every school. > Me: how about make sure it's not every school. >You: arrest one criminal and change nothing. Wanting to close everything down is stupid. > Me: I said nothing about shutting anything down. >You: DuDe YoU ReSpOnDeD tO Me!


[deleted]

[удалено]


kyoto_kinnuku

It needs to happen at more than one place before you clamor to end a culture like you people are. I used to live close to a Maiko school and I never heard anything like this, I don’t think it’s normal at all. It’s one person who sexually exploited underage girls most likely, not all the unrelated Maiko school. Edit. Let’s say this happened at a JHS, would you end all JH schools? If this happened a swimming school would you close all swimming schools? It was one criminal, no reason to throw all the other non-criminals under the bus.


ibeforetheu

Oops


[deleted]

[удалено]


ibeforetheu

Oops


Basilik_of_the_rot

Absolutely. It is one of the worst subreddit.


prospect97

Let’s just say people wouldn’t be surprised if it happens in most of schools.


kyoto_kinnuku

People on Reddit? Sure Parents who send their kids to these schools? Definitely not going to be happy about it. I knew a girl who went to a Maiko school and her parents afaik were normal people. They weren’t sex trafficking monsters like redditors would love for you to believe. This page becomes so anti-japan sometimes that I almost wonder if it’s some kind of propaganda campaign.


Key-Mulberry-1953

I mean you’re only bringing up your own anecdote, which you aren’t even sure of (whether your friend was forced to drink or bathe with customers as a young girl), and you think others are jumping to conclusions when actual evidence is provided? Kyoto even has a law where these girls are allowed to drink alcohol from 15, because its an important part of their duties.. entertaining wealthy men. This is an open secret, that most people try to cover up with “culture” or just shrug off. What exactly do you think is the appeal? Do you actually think this isn’t sexualized? These old dudes just like musical instruments and white make-up?


kyoto_kinnuku

Well since neither one of us are involved in this, at all, I think we should leave it to people who do have the resources to thoroughly investigate.


Key-Mulberry-1953

I think that’s the main problem, and why people are upset. This is something brushed under the rug constantly.


kyoto_kinnuku

How do you know that? It sounds just like speculation.


A_RUSSIAN_TROLL_BOT

Hey, aren't you that guy who eats canned dog food for the "cheap protein intake"?


kyoto_kinnuku

Nope lol


A_RUSSIAN_TROLL_BOT

You're not? Then what's this deleted comment from a month ago where you rehash how it's totally fine to eat because it comes from a facility that also produces human food? That can't *possibly* be your username, can it? https://www.reveddit.com/v/teachinginjapan/comments/ufjyjt/teacher_water_cooler_month_of_may_2022/i74phff/?context=3


kyoto_kinnuku

You said “canned dog food”. That’s a far cry from frozen hunted wild game that didn’t meet meat preparation time limit. I’ve posted about this, Japanese people don’t have any issues eating this. It’s just alcoholic weaboos like you. This was a 6 week diet using deer meat as my only red meat source. Competing is expensive and I was able to get into competition shape this way on my budget. Why would I care what a sad Reddit troll thinks about my food? 🤦‍♂️ The worst part of all of this though is the fact that you think I only care about “amount of protein”. I would never ever reduce nutritional planning to such an utterly worthless metric. If that’s all I cared about I would eat nothing but chicken. Get to 110kg lean and let me know what your diet is 😚❤️ https://imgur.com/a/tJDyEyK/


A_RUSSIAN_TROLL_BOT

It's dog food. Stop sending people unsolicited semi-nude photos of your weird body, creep.


kyoto_kinnuku

You’re the one who keeps posting about my training over and over and over 💜💜💜 😉 Here’s a tip, if you right-click you can save those. And then I’ll have a special place on your computer as well as your *heart* 😚


A_RUSSIAN_TROLL_BOT

I don't think I've said anything about training? I was just talking about eating dog food. Lean mass is a lot less impressive when you realize a 400-pound ultra-debu with 40% body fat has the same lean mass as you.


kyoto_kinnuku

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. And you’re obviously the type who likes to sit and moan rather than ask and learn. I know you won’t listen but your personality type *never* leads to anything good. Nobody wants to go out of their way to help someone filled with negativity. Almost everyone will help the polite person who asks for advice. Something you should think about. 1: here’s my body scan around competition time. Find me one single obese person with this much lean mass at my height. Please, because they don’t exist within the human species. You saying this just shows me you don’t understand principles of insulin sensitivity and nutrient partitioning. Something I would gladly take the time to explain to a non-morally-bankrupt human. 2: Who cares about impressing trolls on the internet? Bodybuilding cash prizes go up to $500,000 USD, plus sponsor pay, plus coaching, plus training income. You don’t need to impress redditors when you’re getting paid. I AM getting paid now btw. I’m at the point where I’m transitioning away from full time work to running my own business. Within a year it’s very likely I’ll be done with normal jobs forever. I’ve already drastically reduced my normal job hours. One of my good friends lives solely off of coaching now and is pulling over $200,000 a year. Understanding how to give people the body of their dreams is worth a LOT of money. 3: Go back to playing Elden Ring and dreaming of living here in Japan. We don’t need your type here 😂. https://imgur.com/a/ef3M3PS/


A_RUSSIAN_TROLL_BOT

Man, you're easy to troll. I have no interest in moving to Japan. I already did the Eikaiwa dance like ten years ago, went back home, got a degree in an actual field, got a six figure job, bought a home, and am having a blast goading you on about the time you were so desperate for gains you ate dog food for six weeks.


elppaple

ok dog food boy


Gothjoose

So I grew up in the Memoirs of a Geisha era, and spent a lot of time reading on the (true and romanticized) lives of them. I try to withhold judgment because cultural relativity, but I don’t believe for one second that geisha are not expected to cater sexually in some way to clients. It just does not add up, and the history is so muddy, especially pre-war, that it seems laughable to me that anyone would believe otherwise. I am absolutely open to being corrected, but it just seems like a bizarre semantic game.


Foxcecil

Interesting. When is it going to come to light that most anime is socially acceptable pedophile fodder?


dagbrown

That's some great whataboutism. Sure, we might have *actual children being harmed*, but shouldn't we really be doing something about drawings?!?!?!


GerFubDhuw

Most anime. Gonna need some sources on that bro.


QuakeGuy98

Downvotes say otherwise sadly...


Key-Mulberry-1953

Not soon enough..


Sky_Office

Some idiots in Japanese Parliament passed a law saying it’s okay to publish underage anime porn, because it is freedom of expression.


LeBonCameron

Awful


boltkrank

What did you do ?


Foxcecil

I think I rustled some feathers... Haha


Foxcecil

I think I ruffled some feathers... Haha


ibeforetheu

I said some similar stuff about jav and was downvoted by an army. Shows a lot about the priorities of certain people


girl_from_japan

~~This was a false account.~~ ~~(not saying the maiko problem isn't true, but "her" story was false)~~ Sorry read some tweets of hers that seemed weird but I guess she was real.


[deleted]

[удалено]


rabbiteatscarrot1028

This. Hey you are from Japan I guess your Japanese is good enough to find a solid proof on Twitter


AnivaBay

I've already seen some incredibly spurious attempts to claim she's a Communist plant 😂


girl_from_japan

Sorry for the misinformation. I'm just a young girl who was too soon to jump to conclusions. But I'm not a communist.


girl_from_japan

Oh shoot you weren't calling me a communinst. My english is bad.


GerFubDhuw

[my Homer might be a lotta things...](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2EwvmpFC1Fo)


bosscoughey

Not op, don't have a dog in this fight, and certainly wouldn't be surprised to hear the story is true, but I did see this tweet, which if real would seem a bit suspect. https://twitter.com/nalltama/status/1541209621687599105?t=MDzsXBk1T2UHRRPVVa_gBA&s=19


girl_from_japan

Oh yes that is the tweet I read. I guess the tweet was real. Sorry for the misinformation people.


Matttthhhhhhhhhhh

That's awful but not surprising alas...


Rain_on_the_101

I had dinner with a Maiko once (Mameroku) and I thought it was weird that she was drinking even though she was underage at the time (I think she’d just turned 19). I figured there probably had to be special rules for them, but I guess I was wrong?


coralwaters226

Sadly, I can't imagine a world where this ISNT the case. 16 year old girls being put in a room with numerous rich, drunk business men and expected to quite literally be beautiful and desirable? Are we all pretending this isn't a perfect storm?


gangsey

i never understood the whole thing with maikos and kamuros. it’s literally just glorified grooming and even if it’s disguised as “nothing indecent is involved they’re just entertaining guests” why are adults seeking entertainment from minors? a lot of countries are not without faults every country had a weird tradition that can’t fly in today’s society, but we adapted and just because we stop practicing doesn’t erase it as a tradition that existed in our history. kids don’t have to be put in danger for the sake of “keeping the tradition alive”


garden_snakes

Reminder that the age of consent is still 13 there in some circumstances. This isn’t shocking, nevertheless it’s still awful


Talmbout_work_ethnic

No surprise here. It is well known that physically weak dudes with small d\*cks are generally after underage girls. It's the only way they can feel some form of ''power'' over them. They could never handle a real woman.


[deleted]

wtf


[deleted]

[удалено]


epistemic_epee

Is this comment a joke or do you not know that the age of consent ranges from 16 to 18 by prefecture?


meikyoushisui

Theres's also [青少年保護育成条例 ](https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%9D%92%E5%B0%91%E5%B9%B4%E4%BF%9D%E8%AD%B7%E8%82%B2%E6%88%90%E6%9D%A1%E4%BE%8B) in each prefecture which forbid some sex acts between people over 18 and people under 18, especially in cases where they "take advantage of the juvenile's mental or physical immaturity, such as by enticing, threatening, deceiving, or confusing."


KafkaDatura

You do not understand what age of consent means.


LeBonCameron

Being a pedophile is not a culture. It's disgusting. As well as people who defend it.


wetyesc

Being a pedophile is not a culture


boltkrank

I don't think they were referring to the person from a legal standpoint, just more due to the fact that it's considered compromising if the other party isn't fully aware of the situation or has been coerced into doing so. What do you think should be a good age ?


epistemic_epee

No, it's very definitely sexual exploitation of a minor; possibly also statutory rape.


[deleted]

It’s probably better not to ask them.


GerFubDhuw

Nice job ignoring the corruption of minor laws that up the age. Japanese people impose Japanese culture onto Japan, we're just wondering why they don't impose it here, so is this ex-maiko.


Basilik_of_the_rot

I don't understand your comment


GerFubDhuw

~~You~~ They ignore the Japanese laws that make having sex with a child under 16-18 (depending on the prefecture) illegal. Nobody is forcing Western morals on Japan. Japanese people think it's immoral. Edit: different person


Basilik_of_the_rot

He* ignore the japanese laws. I was just trying to follow the discussion.


GerFubDhuw

Right different person. My bad.