T O P
rocky2405

If she were honorable, she would have told the king about Cripple-Finger murdering his father and brother right away.


Illustrious-Fly-4525

Or about Cole


Diggitydave76

I want to know how anyone protected Cole from blatant murder in a public setting with 100 witnesses. I mean he left the dude with his face smashed in and no one wanted to know why?


Illustrious-Fly-4525

Yeah, poor Jeffrey’s face looked like a strawberry smoothie bowl and no one even questioned if this dude is stable enough to protect the king


Zeliek

>poor Jeffrey’s face Ah, I understand why Laenor blurted that name out when asked what the name of the new baby was.


NeedMoreEstrogen

Yeah in F&B he wanted their first kid to be named Joffrey but was denied by his father until the third one


RatioMiddle

The fact that they changed the story to have Cole brutally and publicly murder Joffrey and then offer no explanation as to why he suffered no consequences was really stupid.


Diggitydave76

It's really the only glaring plot hole I can't look past so far though.


theboxman154

How did the girl (while giving birth) walk all the way outside to her dragon with no one stopping her other then her husband casually walking behind her.


appsecSme

To me it just seems like Daemon wanted to let her die on her own terms. The maester made it seem like there wasn't much chance for either her or the baby to live. Daemon was also aware of his sister in law and nephew dying under similar circumstances.


ExcellentBenefit4811

aemma was daemon cousin also


Diggitydave76

Still much more explainable than the above plot hole. Laena was said to have crawled to Vhagar to try and ride her one more time before she died. She didn't make it. The men in the situation were discussing options and she knew what was up. I agree it's likely they would have tried to stop her, but the end result of the scene justifies it for me. It's a plot hole, but not a glaring moment of stupidity. She wanted to die a dragon riders death and was allowed it. Dragon riders don't ask for permission.


Riolkin

I was proud of her. Not because I think it was the best option, but because she made her own choice.


Heavy_Signature_5619

Pro choice in our world: We want abortion rights. Pro choice in Westeros: Hell yeah, she chose whether to die by C-Section or dragon fire.


SuperJLK

It feels like they cut a part. I would have had Daemon chase after one of his daughters as they try to check on their mother. Makes him seem like less of a dick.


TheOneWhosCensored

Seriously, they could still do the murder, just make it private. Have the same scene, no beating. Cole later summons Joffrey, beats him to death. Body is found later. Cole is suspected by the Blacks, but they’re powerless to do anything.


DM39

Or just do it in a tourney like it's supposed to be, the wedding was supposed to be a multi-day event. I think they cling to the idea that something always has to happen at the wedding celebrations They already made it a point for Corlys to mention earlier that the king imbibes himself with games/feasts. IIRC it was in the itinerary as well- having Cole kill him (perhaps as he's yielding)- would've have had similar dramatic effect without seemingly like a one-sided murder.


Smrtihara

They couldn’t do a repeat on the tourney that started the series. They already did a yielding-scene to establish the characters in that episode.


Quiet-Captain-2624

Yea that makes no sense.That doesn’t change my opinion do Cole since I already hated that dickhead from the lore.Still that dude killed a knight from a noble house and wasn’t even questioned🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️.Like how did House Lonmouth feel that one of theirs was killed in such a ignominious manner


Sithlourde666

I went off on this in another thread. It's my only issues so far as minor details that don't add up. I get they didn't wanna have another tourney this season but they could've had the altercation outside away from so many onlookers and then assault the princesses soon to be husband and still keep his cloak at the least. Cole violated guest right and if Joffery was intent on hurting the princess or anyone there wouldve been witnesses to confirm or deny it. Cole is just a upjumped kingsguard there no reasons for guests to cover for him. books telling made much more sense of this matter.


Ranjith_Unchained

Can you explain what actually happened?


RatioMiddle

In the book there’s a tournament to celebrate Laenor and Rhaenyra’s wedding. Criston Cole participates bearing Queen Alicent’s favor and performs fiercely, critically injuring Joffrey Lonmouth with a morningstar to the helm which he dies of six days later. People were upset about it but severe injuries happen in tournaments (and apparently outright slaughter in the show according to episode 1 which was also really stupid) so it wasn’t considered murder. Queen Alicent made Cole her sworn shield after the tournament.


Diggy_riggy_shiggy

There is a Tourney Melee and Criston "accidentally" smashes in Joffreys helmet with a Morningstar


_CalamityJane__

Maybe they will explain it in the future, in some of the between characters fights


xLaZi3x

I wasn't too upset about this murder till the next episode when the Lord Commander beat the fuck out of Cole he pretty much had to exile himself..Like Lord's apparently have harder punishments than Kings Guards


iiamthepalmtree

I saw the exile more because of the growing rumors. Viserys even told the hand “that’s not really a big deal why you all wanna leave?” And then the hand was like “uhhh, it wasn’t necessarily the fight itself… there are rumors growing….” And V and the queen were like “say them out loud…” he was like “No… but also my son is the heir to my castle or whatever so how about we say I’m taking him back so he could fulfill his duties as my heir?” And then V was like “ok whatever, that’s fine, but I command you to stay as my hand”


xLaZi3x

Yea but they had a line before saying the dude was pretty much fired from the Watch so he still had a bigger punishment than Cole for simply beating the dude up before the "We need to get out to stop rumors"


rsx7802

I personally saw it as the Kings Guard are highly respected and their word would be trusted if an incident like that occurred over another's. Cole could have easily claimed that Joffrey was a threat to the situation somehow so he took care of it.


Iggitron90

But he struck Laenor the soon-to-be King Consort. How the fuck does he justify that? Surely Laenor would pursue that injustice against his lovers murderer.


iEatBluePlayDoh

That really needs to be brought up in the show. Especially after Harwin got shit for lightly shoving Alicent’s little brat out of the way.


xlobsterx

Agon is the kings son. Leanor is a targarion but not the same level of pull as the son of the Queen- the real person in charge. I bet laenor also wanted to distance himself from the situation because it was his lover who was killed. He dropped it in fear of being exposed himself.


Diggitydave76

IDK. He kills the guy and then he disappears. If it was justified the thing to do would have been to proclaim what happened, not disappear with the intention of committing suicide. Seems very suspect and suspicious to me. Similar to Sansa's disappearance at the purple wedding. Let's also not forget the queen chasing after him to the gods wood. That would have been noticed as well. The Velaryons in particular might have had questions about a member of their partying being summarily executed at the party.


Black_Metallic

Corlys and Rhaenys might not have wanted to push the issue too hard and risk having Laenor's relationship to Joffrey become public knowledge.


MrPisster

"Yep, I had to hit him until his face caved in. Had to. He had like a knife or something and until his frontal lobe collapsed he was still a danger. What knife you say? Move along, this is official Kingsguard business." Guys, I love ya but come on. It doesn't take much to realize there was a bit of a plot hole here. Even Alt Shift X brings it up from time to time in his Q&As.


rsx7802

Not really saying there wasn't a plot hole was more conveying how I saw they handwaved it for the issue. I would've liked to seen a scene with Cole confronted as well but this show is more of Speedrun than GoT


MrPisster

I think the guard should have stepped forward towards Cole as we got a shot of Cole leaving out the front door. Allicent puts a hand on the guard's shoulder and shakes her head slightly. The guard backs down and then goes over to check on the princess with the King and Harwin. The Queen walks towards the door and we jump to Cole in the God's wood. No dialogue, 4 seconds total. Chef's kiss. And then maybe after the time jump we get some shots of Laenor sideing Cole and some comment about the Queen making up stories to protect him.


Lord_Sauron

The Saudi Prince had someone murdered and butchered in an Embassy and exactly fucking nothing happened to him. When the powers that be want deplorable shit to be washed away, it gets washed away.


MrPisster

Only one power, literally only the Queen. Also Jamal's murder does not seem to have had witnesses that we are aware of. Witnesses that are alive anyway. Where as Coles murder could hardly have more witnesses. It's not a good comparison but I see what you're saying. I'm cool with the Queen protecting him, it's just bad writing to not include any of that context or have any side affects whatsoever.


tasha2701

Why is it that Harwin Strong got kicked out of the City Watch and exiled from Kings Landing for beating Criston's ass in a courtyard quarrel but Criston didn't get exiled for murdering a man at the heir to the throne's royal wedding and punching the future King Consort in the face? Surely what Criston did in public should've warranted him being sent to the wall or being stripped of his White Cloak.


FryTheDog

He threw the soon to be king consort into a fucking table. How the fuck did he not get murdered by Corlys right there!


Diggitydave76

This too I mean WTF.


McRizzi

And punching the future queen consort. That's worth losing a hand...


MidnightAshley

I don't get why Criston the Honorless got away with literal murder of a lord at the heir to the kingdom's wedding while the commander of the city watch loses his job for punching a guy who made a treasonous remark and encouraged a child to beat the shit out of the child 3rd in line to the throne.


Stereo-soundS

He bashed his face in because he accused him of fathering Rhae's children (which he did) in public. Tell's him "Say it again!". This is pretty straightforward.


Deyazhere

Going by how Viserys is he would have just said yikes that's bad don't do it again now you again stand at my daughter's door just don't bang. Forgiven bye.


MrPisster

I disagree, he would have likely made a call that Monkey's Pawed him right in the face. Also it would have somehow made his whole body situation even more rotten.


prazulsaltaret

> Or about Cole Why would she tell him about Cole? Viserys would have him tortured to death and Rhaenyra would get away scott free. Vizzy T knows Rhaenyra fucked someone.


MarchBaby21

Because he’s an oathbreaker. Literally the first scene of GoT is Ned beheading an oathbreaker because it’s his duty. Alicent is no Ned.


TheOneWhosCensored

How about Ned hating Jaime for killing the Mad King, even though he was the guy that murdered his brother and father, wanted to murder him and his best friend, allowed the kidnapping of his sister, and wanted to burn the capital city and its people to the ground. Doesn’t matter cause it’s an oathbreak.


MarchBaby21

Yeah, that shows that Ned is consistent in his morals. Jaime is an oathbreaker and a lot of people in Westeros didn’t like him for it. You’re free to disagree, I certainly do, but Ned took oaths very seriously. It was part of his moral code and he doesn’t waver on that. I don’t hate Jaime for murdering the King but I also respect Ned’s highly principled stances. I don’t even understand how any of this is a rebuttal because youre basically proving my point that Ned and Alicent are completely different.


TheOneWhosCensored

I’m not rebutting, I’m further backing you. Ned had the most extreme example to justify oathbreaking and still sided against it.


MarchBaby21

Oh gotcha apologies! I was confused lol. It is a good example of how strict Ned was about oath breaking.


HotPieIsAzorAhai

So her being dishonorable by covering for an oathbreaker is ok because if she did the honorable thing Rhaenyra wouldn't be punished?


PraiseTheBlaziken

Holy fuck. Cripple-Finger made me do a spit take


littlefoxx31

She isn’t honorable because a) she is using her knowledge of Christians affair to her advantage to get someone on her side, and b) she is upset no one is on her side and that if her dad were the hand he would be partial to her over the realm, which is exactly why Lyonel wanted to resign since he said he can no longer remain impartial.


TheThinkingJacob

The whole “he would have been partial to me!!!” Was dead set no honor in her.


unicornbomb

Exactly, “honor” is only relevant to her when she stands to benefit from it.


atlas0210

“Oh no. She might kill me and my children when she becomes queen. Guess I’d better spend the next decade doing nothing but pissing her off.” - Alicent


Hastatus_107

"And deliberately refuse her attempt at making peace between our families by flipping off the marriage proposal that everyone else thinks is a good idea."


EifertGreenLazor

If she were honerable, she wouldn't have worked with Ottofinger to seduce the king who she has no feelings or attraction for in order to gain power.


TheRomanRenegade

You do see that he's blackmailing the woman, right? He twisted the events into something Alicent had commanded to be carried out and he doubles down with an IOU.


KeeperCalevarn

Assuming Alicent tells the King, then Larys goes to tell him that it was her who orchestrated the plan instead, who do you think Viserys is going to believe? His own wife or some shady crook? Come on now.


Fuhgly

I mean she's the fuckin queen just call him a liar and Kinslayer and burn the bitch.


j0hnp0s

Why does she even have to go into this? She's the Queen. She can just order him "accidented" and then tell the King whatever she wants I mean, you are in the middle of a fight for the crown, and your first reaction is to blackmail the Queen? Good luck with that...


Healthy-Drink3247

I mean all she has to do is send Ser Cole after the man. That’s dude murdered someone at a feast and still walks free, he could definitely get away with murdering some cripple that creeps everyone out


eyearu

If Alicent really needs a reason she could just tell people he tried to misbehave when no one was around. Given how prejudiced people are in this universe, no one would bat an eye.


Kalandros-X

Especially considering he’s a cripple. Just look at how people treated Tyrion like shit for being a dwarf


bigkinggorilla

Right? It’s not like he’s got recordings of their conversation to play at the trial.


Beachcoma

Her response is exactly how people give away their own power in many situations


Fuhgly

Exactly


Aussiepharoah

Wait tell he uses his warging powers and uses a raven like a recorder


Middle-Eye2129

Yeah, I love how everyone act like she's this powerless victim and not the second most powerful person in the kingdom


H-K_47

Corlys disliked that! But yes, she's absolutely Top 5 in the realm. Certainly moreso than Larys.


jakO_theShadows

So either she is stupid or evil


caldude1985

Don't sell Alicent short. How about both?


LayzieKobes

It's a mat, that you place on the ground. And on it are various...conclusions. And you jump to those conclusions.


Gridde

God I hope this isn't the implication. Because that would be solved absurdly easily. Just have Cole beat him to death and make up whatever excuse you want. No one gives a shit about him; he murdered his only possible allies other than Alicent. There wouldn't be a Game of Thrones if some nobody could depose a queen by murdering someone and then just say the queen did it with zero evidence. Also if you're worried that she's too honorable to do this, keep in mind she is actively planning a coup (which will involve the murder of her former friend and step daughter). Justifying the execution of an actual murderer and kinslayer would be easy.


rocky2405

What does it have to do with honor though? Blackmail shouldn't matter if the person truly cares about doing the right thing.


andraerys2

She's not honorable. She believes herself honorable and righteous. She lacks self-awareness while Ned was naive to a sin.


bigkinggorilla

Except Ned said “Joffrey isn’t Robert’s kid, therefore he’s not the rightful heir. Robert’s brother Stannis is the true heir.” Not “Joffrey’s kids aren’t really his, therefore Joffrey shouldn’t be the heir. My kid should be the next king.” See the difference?


riorio55

Also the fact that Ned stood to benefit by shutting up and allowing Sansa's marriage to Joffrey to move forward.


ronan88

Also, Raenyra's kids are still in the direct line of inheritance/succession, the lannister bastards had no barratheon blood.


gaybraham-lincoln

Yeah I’m not sure why people think it’s comparable. Joffrey he zero Bobby B blood in him, he’s the ultimate bastard. At least Jace and the other Raenyra kids are half Targ


bobby-b-bot

IT'S A GREAT CRIME TO LIE TO A KING!


Mcbumpo234

Good bot


tuigger

Damn straight!


Xan-Perky-Check

Is it also a crime for a king to lie to himself Bobby B?


bobby-b-bot

IT MUST WOUND YOUR PRIDE! STANDING OUT THERE, LIKE A GLORIFIED SENTRY!


chakigun

stop shouting bobby b


bobby-b-bot

THANK THE GODS FOR BESSIE AND HER TITS


bastardofbarberry

If Robert would have known about his "children's" true parentage, they would have likely been exiled or potentially even killed. Ceresi and Jaime would have been for sure goners. I would actually like to see that alternate timeline where Tywin tries to go to war with the crown after his children's executions. Maybe not direct war, but he would have definitely done something. Maybe Tywin would have aligned himself with Daenerys & we would have gotten a truly scary Daenerys under the direction of Tywin. (If he could somehow win her over, but it's Tywin fucking Lannister) I do digress though... Another key difference is Viserys legally made Rhaenyra his heir under no false pretenses and made it law. Robert's heir was just his heir under the pretense it was his actual son, clearly a false pretense. This makes things completely different as well. Plus Ned had no selfish motivations where Alicent is being (knowingly or not) directed by the scare tactics her father bestowed upon her & she's a little selfish. Rhaenyra's children being bastards are a slight issue, but not even comparable in the case of Ned versus Alicent.


svargs01

Also, there was that argument that maybe gendry was going to become heir because Robert could make him legitimate. So why wouldn’t Rhaenyra be able to make her kids legitimate? Oh wait, because she’s a woman right? At the end of the day, the blood that runs through their veins is more legitimate than Cersei’s kids. (I’ll say, line of succession is stupid and blood stuff is dumb, but if we’re following Alicent’s rules and whatnot, 1) the King gets to decide, and 2) whoever is in power at the end of the day gets to legitimize whoever they want).


sleeper_shark

Cos to legitimise child would be to admit that the child isn't legitimate. Rhaenrya cannot let anyone know that she's been unfaithful to Laenor.


[deleted]

[удалено]


elusivehonor

Ned wasn’t married to Robert, and Ned didn’t have his true born heirs?


bigkinggorilla

More to the point, Ned’s actions didn’t obviously benefit Ned’s children so it really did seem honorable. Alicent claiming it’s about honor seems more suspect because her kids so plainly benefit.


AlbatrossUpset3596

Lmao but she isn’t actually honorable. Ned was


UsagiJak

Why do people keep making these stupid fucking comparisons lol.


Gridde

Ragebait, haha This one does seem low-effort though


Mike_Ropenis

Karma farming is a way of life for the common folk. When Winter comes and the Night King is at the gate they'll be happy they stored up so much karma.


materics

Bad faith actors


DalianPizza1920

I’m dying at someone with Richard Nixon in their username posting this, it goes so well with the post. No hate. You do you 😂👍🏻


GubbenJonson

He’s not a crook


Hebroohammr

Ned protected the innocent. He was against hunting down Dany, lied about Jon to keep him safe, and gave Cersei a chance to get away with her bastards. He was exposing corruption that ended up in regicide. Alicent is being a bitch because she thinks Rhaenyra gets away with too much and wants her own kid to be king.


mynameisritaj

The thing is, Rhaenyra is in line to be Queen, Alicent should understand that getting away with stuff comes with the territory. Like Aegon doesn't get away, he's standing out the window whacking off.


Drumsticks617

It’s strongly implied that Alicent helped Criston get out of his murder with no consequences in the last episode.


Princess_Moon_Butt

Not just the murder, she covered up Criston sleeping with Rhaenyra, a charge which _he admits_ should have had him tortured and executed for breaking his vows and sullying the princess's honor. If Alicent were so gung-ho about honor and righteousness, I think she'd have maybe... y'know, at least reported that to someone, banished him, _something_. Instead she turned him into a political gamepiece to presumably bust out later when she needed some leverage. I'm not saying she's _bad_, but she's definitely not any more honorable than anyone else. Ned definitely was.


Hastatus_107

She really seems obsessed with Rhaenyras sex life. Last week, she seemed more concerned with whether Rhaenyra was still a virgin than in whether she was going to kill her son when she takes over. 10 years later, she's still fascinated about who's knocked her up. Who cares? Who made her the morality police?


T0oShayzz

Not a good comparison at all


zerogirl0

How is this comparable? Rhaenyra's children are still her biological children and she's the one set to inherit the throne. Plus regardless of who their biological father is, her husband is aware and still claims them as his own. Alicent is hardly Ned. Ned wanted to do the right thing, Alicent got manipulated by her Daddy and bought into his lies even after he pawned her off on a man twice her age. She may have started out as a sympathetic character but now she's just being petty and stupid.


Jack1715

Also as soon as she becomes queen she can just legitimise her kids anyway


ParsleyMostly

Ned encouraged his kids to make peace with people. Alicent tells her kids their sister and cousins will murder them.


William_TheOG21

If she's honorable, Criston Cole would have already been castrated, tortured, and sent to the wall. That's something Ned Stark would do.


CathyDukas

I doubt Ned would ever have someone tortured. Executed or sent to the wall for sure though.


goboxey

Alicent is so power hungry, she's not even honourable anymore. Ned died as an honourable man.


AlsoPrtyProductive

Ned got offered the most powerful position in the realm and without a second thought he gave it up to Stannis. Alicent would never in a million years.


goboxey

Ned knew he was the wrong guy for the part, while Stan the Man would have killed cersei and her bastards without a second thought.


Grizzly_228

Idk about that. I can’t see Stannis killing children to get power, he’s not the type


AlsoPrtyProductive

He would have killed Cersei and Jaime for sure. Perhaps Joffrey as well before sending Tommen and Myrcella as far away from the Iron Throne as possible


vanillaninja16

He wouldn’t kill them for power, just to get out of a snowstorm


goboxey

He would kill probably cersei and send the children to the wall or silent sisters.


Grizzly_228

Yeah that’s most likely. Like he would have never burnt innocent alive children at the stake or something like that, he’s more human than that


andthebestnameis

Woah woah woah, that's a bit specific isn't it? There's no way that Stannis could even think of doing something like that. Just like how he would never, let's say, have an affair to create shadow babies that kill challengers to the throne, as a random example.


angrybo

Joffrey in The Watch with Jon Snow is a show I need to see.


manoverboard321

I'll bet we already saw that when we saw Janos Slynt's career there


Hresvelgr01

Shireen: are you sure about that?


Jaime123lannister

You can't see a man who - burnt his own innocent daughter - killing those who pose threat to him?


DrBarrell

whoosh


lost-generation203

What you talking about? All we’ve seen is Him save the wall. He hasn’t marched south yet


AllHailTheNod

Ned would have never uttered the sentence "but he would have been partial to me" lmao


voiceinthedesert

I mean, except for the part where Cersei was having an affair her husband didn't know about and Rhaenyra has the full support and consent of her "husband."


barkingdog2013

Hmmm. Alicent comes off as hateful and spiteful. Ned was just sad about all the bad things happening.


rhganggang

This is dumb af lmao


Dead-Man-Sitting

Right, because the two are so comparable 🙄👍


kaisinel158

She is not trying to be honorable, she is, *very poorly,* trying to play the game of thrones...


Illustrious-Fly-4525

Yeah, but whatever it is with Rhaenyra’s sons , that doesn’t affect her legitimacy, especially if king doesn’t care. Should’ve let Rhaenyra become queen and then negotiate moving line to her sons with Deamon.


Grizzly_228

Rhaenyra should have just fucked with Daemon to get pure blooded Targaryen sons and all of this wouldn’t have happened


papyjako89

The thing is, this doesn't really matter. Alicent is just looking for an excuse to steer shit up, because she is convinced Rhaenyra would get rid of her children when ascending the throne. An idea that's only based on a single sentence by her father.


SpaceLionW

How is it honorable to, at you scheming father's behest, move in on your best friend's dad just days after his wife (your best friend's mother) passed away so that you can start popping out challengers to your best friend's claim to the throne? "Best friend"


Dry_Intention2932

Did Ned bother Robert at all when he was making bastards all over the 7 kingdoms? No, he did not. He got involved when the next in line for the throne was literally not related to rob lol.


Baddyshack

Alicent has the most "Let me talk to your manager" energy in Westeros all because her friend had the sex.


papyjako89

I feel the issue comes more from her father implanting the idea Rhaenyra would get rid of her children when ascending the throne. Alicent built an entire worst case scenario in her head based on one sentence from her father (who damn well knew what he was doing).


Daromirko

That would be plausible the entire time BEFORE Rhaenyra offered to marry her son with her daughter thus giving her 100% guarantee that her grandson would be the future king. Alicent has zero excuses after refusing that.


jus13

Even then it's not plausible, Rhaenyra still wanted to be friends with Alicent.


paranoidandrea

It upsets me that she let her father get to her *that* much knowing her dad plays games (already a pawn herself after Aemma, and overheard conversations with Viserys). Add to that, had been close to Rhaenyra for that long when they were young. Even if Rhaenyra lied, she should have known her friend well enough to know its self preservation, nothing more, as she had said she dun want it many times before the mess started. And Larys, I mean she didn't expect it to go that far but what did she think she was doing by confiding in someone like that guy? The irony of her not wanting to be made a fool of while she acts so dumb. I honestly hate her more than Cersei, at least Cersei was honest with herself and didn't have this innocent and self righteous delusion. And Cersei was smart too, Alicent is just never grew up or formed an opinion of her own. No respect for that.


evd1202

This cannot be serious


Deyazhere

Both actually aren't similar. Rhaenyra is the legitimate heir announced by the king. Cersei was queen consort. The king, the Valeryons approve those kids as their heir. Robert did so because he didn't know, but Alicent actually spoke to the king. Ned didn't want power for himself, he gave Cersei heads up so that she and the children could flee. On the other hand you will see what Alicent goes on to do !! Finally how they behave. Alicent could have been nuanced but the show chose to make her an evil stepmother, caricaturised villain with no other dimensions. That's a choice they made.


StealthLSU

I don't know, I'm not done with Fire and Blood but to me: She is shown way more of a sympathetic character than in the books. >!She was never really friends with Rhaenyra and was out to change the kings mind on succession from the beginning. She was every bit conniving from the beginning and not just this person following her father's orders.


Baldo-bomb

It really. Alicent is nakedly motivated by spite, jealousy and power. Ned was just too honourable for his own good. The difference is in the details.


Micksar

Wrong


mylegbig

Not sure if OP is being serious. Ned is honorable to the point of stupidity. Alicent is a schemer who uses “honor” as justification. Ned’s unwillingness to scheme is his undoing. Alicent’s undoing is not being good enough at scheming. They’re not remotely similar.


Most_Enthusiasm8735

I am so confused by this mental gymnastics that is going on. How the fuck are ned and alicent comparable at all?


Horizons_398

Uhm, Alicent is not honorable in the least lmfao. Don’t you EVER sully the name of the great Eddard Stark, Warden of the North and Lord of Winterfell, EVER AGAIN!


ckmidgettfucyou

You are mistaking honor for self-righteous religious zeal. She's trash fam. She walked in on her son beating meat over the street and knows that he's already being naughty with the help. She's holding him to a different standard than 'Nyra. Not honorable. Trash.


Ahmed_Sazid

At least Rhaenyra's(The heir and the rightful Queen) bastards have her blood that's what really matters. On the other hand joffrey was just a product of incest and wasn't a barratheon. Yeah she isn't a saint for sure but these two cases are not really comparable


skeetsauce

Yeah, making a woman who just gave birth walk across a castle for some small talk is totally a cool thing to do.


Mcbumpo234

Ned would support the Blacks. The north remembers when they pledged to Rhaenyra. Simple as that. Creghan Stark is a “simple, basic, average bl*ck” or whatever other adjective op wants to use to make fun of the people who support the king’s chosen heir. This is a great story because really none of them are worth supporting for their own leadership ability. Chances are if you don’t like someone in this story, it’s only a matter of time until they get theirs.


R1pY0u

He'd also stop supporting the Blacks a week later after Blood & Cheese lmao


Cinematica09

You have no clue what’s going on in this series, do you?


remnantcat

Team black for life!


JakeFromSttFarm

Not the same thing. Cersei’s children were not the king’s children at all. Rhaenyra’s children were still the children of the crown princess.


Mhunterjr

“Honor” is just the excuse she gives herself for her quest for power.


frankmurph66

Another awful meme from team green.. shocker


IronMonkey18

Ned was honorable. She’s just a hypocrite.


milliAmpere14

Are you mad ?? Comparing Ned's honor with Alicent's 'honor' ?? 😅 There is nothing honorable about what Alicent is up to.


_Gregor_Samsa__

I dont remember Ned dragging a woman for a meaningles meeting after giving birth. Or influencing his kids to hate other kids you green slut!


justhereforbooks94

Ned would have backed rhaenyra


Msan28

Indeed, fuck that bitch.


Rutwick_23

I hope OP posted this ironically


centaur98

Yes, Ms. "I want him to be partial to me" is such an honorable character.


DuePrize5

> honorable this sub has an interesting idea of what that means. The two series showed dozens of other reasons why Ned was honorable and Alicent is less so.


Currently_writing

This is absolute bullshit lmao, ned died because he tried to give Cersei and her children mercy. Alicent has been nothing but cruel and has repeatedly ignored acts that are criminal like cole’s or larys’s. Also, Nyra’s bastards are not comparable to Joffrey and his siblings because they actually have the blood of the heir/king. It would be like if Robert had said gendry was his legitimate son. Also, Rhaenyra’s husband knew and approved while Robert did not. Ned continuously did actions to help people and do the right thing, young alicent was polite, older alicent is just villainous


Norodia

Ned Stark never compulsively wanted his children to be the rulers of Westeros, does anything else matter to Alicent?


StallionPhallusLock

I mean idk why Alicent is mad R didnt tell her about Cole/lied when she kept it a secret she was "comforting" the king for months which led to her becoming queen. Alicent is the real snake.


papyjako89

That's not the main problem between them tho. Alicent is just scared that Rhaenyra will get rid of her children if she ever ascend the throne. She built a worst case scenario in her head since her father implanted that idea, and hasn't let go of it since (despite the fact Rhaenyra has shown no intent of hurting her or her children, as shown with the marriage proposal this episode). It's basically a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point.


TAL337

Honorable is seducing your best friends grieving husband who is also king? She also was starting her quest for Aegon II to be king before, despite saying she was in Rheaneryas side. She has Crispy Cole still around and doesn’t think her dad would have been a Biased hand. She has done nothing to strengthen the rift and is, as it seems, the one causing the biggest rift. While the kids may be “bastards” it isn’t really any of her business.


throwitinthetrash6

It’s worse then not thinking he would be a biased hand, she straight up said she wanted him around *because* he would have been biased.


Grizzly_228

Bro the bitch has no honour. She only wants her son on the Iron Throne. She’s even worse than Caitlyn on this since she doesn’t even consider their safety.


Quiet-Captain-2624

What kind of nonsense is this.Ned didn’t manipulate one of his kids with a lie and didn’t scheme to deprive the rightful heir of their birthright.Greens🤢🤮


Kirino-chan

Strong Criston Cole sigma male energy in OP, best of luck.


papyjako89

He is gonna need it...


Kirino-chan

Suddenly chastity and honor are soooo important to Alicent defenders after watching all the men in Westeros whore around and have a dozen bastard sons everywhere for nearly a decade. Yeah sure the legitimacy of Rhae’s children is all that Alicent cares about, no further motive at all, she just wants her best friend to be the most virtuous honorable ruler there is! Totally comparable to Ned Stark.


natephant

Yo the people who defend this wretched skank are so fucking delusional… the show is even going overboard to remove all subtlety and really spell out what a deranged bitch she is and ppl still stupid enough to defend her. She’s apparently been completely relentless for a decade while absolutely god damn no one is even slightly hostile towards her. If they just threw her out with the trash where she belongs the 7 kingdoms would legitimately have no problems.


redbrotato

If she was honourable she wouldn't be giving footsie favours to lars


Are_You_On_Email

The difference is that the kids still have royal blood!


JakeyJake7593

“I’m so honorable” Plans for her son to usurp the thrown against her husbands royal decree that Rhen will ascend the throne.


eschu101

Actual anti-green propaganda. Making this post to make greens look dumb.


iamuarpapa

i mean unlike alicent, ned didn't want to depose geoffry so rob could take the throne. It's another thing altogether that bran ended up on it but hey, semantics.


Tantric75

Ned would absolutely be team black, as the king designated her the heir.


classic_gamer82

Feels that since Alicent found out Rhaenyra had lied to her about hooking up with Cole, it’s been her sole mission to prove herself better. Whether it be by her position, her children, or simply to catch Rhaenyra in another lie, Alicent seems nothing short of spiteful.


vonhacker

She has no honor, since she’s using Cole and pushed her son as she was pushed by her dad for power…and do not forget the prequel of little finger in crippling state.


[deleted]

What a shit post wtf


hunterstripson

She isn’t honorable she’s just hateful.


youngnastysaucio

Common Green L


RayBrous

Wtf? How are the remotely the same?


billgilly14

Not even comparable


Beccaprudie

Haha I’m sorry but this is so funny. Alicent is nothing like Ned. She doesn’t care about anyone else’s children. I’m not even sure she truly cares about hers. I feel like the motivation behind this meme is her like about hoping “…honor and decency will prevail” Why is she associating herself with the most terrible people?


[deleted]

I feel like since the kids are Rhaenyra's, it should not be an issue. Doubly so since Leanor supports confirms they are "their" heirs. Not a whole lot different than if they adopted. Secret sperm donor, what's the problem. Alicent is out of line caring about this at all. In Ned's case, he was justified in caring. The King is a Baratheon and Baratheons should inherit the throne. Cersei's bastards were not Baratheons.


2chips1cola

She isn't honorable though. Her comment about her wanting Otto to be the hand because he is biased towards her proves that by itself. Ned would want a neutral councelors with no ulterior motives. She also tries to supplant Rheanyra as heir, working against her king's decision.


SoullessQuestion

To be fair, Rhaenyra didn’t commit treason to have her husband the king arranged to be gouged by a boar or poison someone to cover up her infidelity like Cersei did. I do think Alicent gets a ton of unnecessary hate though