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Ask /r/formula1 Anything - Daily Discussion - 15 August 2021

Ask /r/formula1 Anything - Daily Discussion - 15 August 2021

purplepatchpete

Do Daniel Ricciardo and Lando Norris get on or is there an issue there? Haven’t noticed anything bad just curious if anyone knows.


pistonfire

Why do telemetries always show either full brake pressure or no brake pressure? In other formula series such as Formula Renault we’re able to see the slightest appliances in brake pressure, but not on Formula 1. I thought that was interesting


cafk

The engine throttle is easier to measure and visualize, the throttle is controlled via the standardised ECU with additional visualization of the MGU-K deployment as you know what 100% open throttle body is. The brake pressure varies from car to car and driver to driver, as well as with their individual settings for front/rear distribution (50-55% front bias) and in the rear it's managed by the MGU-K for regenerative braking with both being modifiable by the driver from corner to corner. The pedal movement itself depends on the modes with how hard the driver presses on it and how heavy the car is in addition to the modes and tire wear. They could theoretically calculate the maximum potential pressure allowed by the individual systems and show it on screen, but you wouldn't see the drivers applying the same force, even if slowing down similarly, at the same corner. Nor would you see some drivers brake indicate 100% or 80% mean the same between drivers in the same chassis. Due to the individual setup and variable breaking power they just deemed a simple "on/off" easier and more informative for viewers. In spec series they have same system for all cars and minor setup variations that does make brake pressure transferrable between the individual cars.


Thisboythatboy

[This comment explains it nicely.](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/m4rfn7/perez_onboard_lap_with_telemety_1309_c2/gqvvqpx/)


Taossmith

What is the connection between Mercedes and Williams? Does Mercedes own Williams now?


tstraw48

Mercedes does not own Williams. They simply supply Williams with the power units. In exhanche for allowing Russell to race for Williams, Mercedes give them a discount on the power unit.


Taossmith

So Russell is actually part of the Mercedes team?


[deleted]

He's part of their young driver program yeah.


tstraw48

He’s backed by Mercedes, yes. He also test for Mercedes.


chenguo4

Question about simulators and new tracks. For e.g. the new Miami track on next year's schedule, what's the process like for different teams to modern it in their simulator? Does each team do their own model or is there a vendor that does it for all the teams? How long does this take?


hornyhorner99

Yep they will laser scan the tracks themselves usually.


pistonfire

Wouldn’t the new aero regs just make racing more boring? Dirty air gives slower teams the ability to actually defend against faster teams. Alonso was able to hold off Hamilton for almost 10 laps in Hungary but with the new regs it would have been only 2 or 3 and Hamilton would have won the race easily


Rodney_u_plonker

It's rare for a lap 1 incident to basically knock out all the fast cars and then the guy on pole to end up in last place by lap 3. If hamilton could easily overtake at Hungary it would have been less exciting sure because he would have not had to worry about undercutting the field. But I think even with the new regs tracks like Hungary will be tricky to overtake. What the fia wants is more battles between equal teams


Appropriate-Fan-6007

On the other side dirty air makes it harder for battles between similar teams, Merc/RB, Ferrari/Mclaren can't follow each other close enough to battle most of the time


DieLegende42

Yes, in this kind of situation dirty air is good for racing, but it's a very rare case and far outweighed by all the instances where the racing is completely prevented by dirty air


moby323

My friend and I invented a new game mode for the F1 2021 video game: **[“Mazepin vs Maldonado”](https://i.imgur.com/MSq5qap.png)**


Appropriate-Fan-6007

That sounds like a lot of fun, but prepare yourself to see this being downvoted for the name


bobbylafrentz

Has anyone experienced buying something of Fanatics or the official F1 Store recently? Been meaning on getting the Williams kit of them, but have read horror stories on how customer support is non-existent and it'll take ages for your stuff to get delivered. I'm based in the EU, the official store doesn't seem to stock the white kit which I'm currently looking for, Umbro does not have my size and does not ship to the EU, so as of now these 2 sites are my only options


E36E92M3

it took 3 weeks longer than expected and F1 customer support was completely useless in tracking down my orders, but in the end my purchases did arrive safe and sound


RainbowKarp

Is it weird that I preferred when Merc/Ferrari/RB were locked into the top 6 spots every race and the next 3-4 teams were fighting for 4 points positions? It make the midfield more interesting to me knowing that you needed consistent P7s and P8s instead of getting the occasional P4 or P5


fivewheelpitstop

No, I started watching in 2019 and liked that, too.


Spoof2020

OT, but was channel flicking and the NASCAR series just had a curb up about and fuck a car up.


tstraw48

Something similar has happened in F1 a few times. Usual a loose drain cover though.


The__Borg

What does the ribbon next to the f1 logo at the top of the subreddit represent? I haven't noticed it before.


cafk

Difficult month for motor sports, [one of the marshals died at Brands Hatch](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/ove85r/ot_the_british_automobile_racing_club_is_saddened/), [Brad Jones ended up in a coma after an accident a week before](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-57963166) and [Aitken (Williams reserve) and Rigon ended in hospital after 24h of Spa](https://www.autosport.com/gt/news/spa-24-hours-aitken-rigon-taken-to-hospital-after-raidillon-pileup/6639914/) :(


The__Borg

Thanks for the explanation, that's a difficult month indeed :(


betterplum

Hi all, first time commenter and I'm admittedly intimidated by this v intense sub. I've been watching F1 with my husband casually for a bit but we both grew more interested this year when we realized we could just set YouTube TV to record them all. As Americans who are sold a particular sports narrative (NFL is the most important, etc.), I'd be curious if anyone has reliable sources to determine global viewership of F1 as compared to other motor sports and sports in general. There's something rewarding to me about being a fan of something globally captivating, even if it's less popular in the states. (Though I imagine this trend is changing.) Has anyone found any stats on this front?


Expensive_Material

>There's something rewarding to me about being a fan of something globally captivating, even if it's less popular in the states. (Though I imagine this trend is changing.) It's still just a commercially motivated media/sports event. There's nothing holy about it. Like what you like. Let others like what they like.


cafk

Formula 1 publishes their own statistics, [as liberty media is a publicly traded company](https://ir.libertymedia.com/financial-information). [They average around 90m viewers per event weekend](https://corp.formula1.com/formula-1-announces-audience-figures-for-2020/), with their own breakdown regarding competition (linked related to digital growth).


betterplum

Thank you!!!


BuddyTheLab

> F1 as compared to other motor sports Is stupidly ahead of every other motorsport


betterplum

Oh for sure, I just wanted some stats in my back pocket for the cousins who love NASCAR, y'know?


Nite124

lol nice


rodiraskol

Alternatively, you and your cousins can just allow each other to enjoy things?


BuddyTheLab

Can't be bothered finding better stats but the "All-Star race at Texas Motor Speedway" of 2021 had a peak of 2.93M viewers, F1 gets easily above 100M average for most of the races


pedote17

Global viewership is around 400 million, but is declining. This season has averaged over 900k in the US, and is rising. F1 is by far the most popular Motorsport globally


betterplum

Thanks! Do you have the source? We're data nerds over here.


Osama_bin_laughin

Do all the racers purposefully post their vacation photos at the same time or is it a collective PR thing?


Expensive_Material

some of them have part of, or even all of, the vacation sponsored, so they're obligated to post. George Russell's Greek resort vacation was sponsored.


Barney_Reynolds

It’s summer break. They’re all on vacation at the same time.


pedote17

Depends where they are, most of them send the photos to their PR people to post because most (if not all) drivers don’t do their own socials. Not even Lando anymore.


tstraw48

Hamilton must do his own. Sometimes he posts without having knowledge of what he’s posting about.


Astelli

I would imagine it's just a fluke because they're all on holiday at the same time. Maybe a little bit of trying to post photos at peak times for their audience.


lord_nuker

Have F1 TV stopped using Sky F1 commentators in the races, or is it just that they use their own in race replays?


cafk

You usually have multiple audio channels available, there was also a glitch at the Hungarian GP, where the English Sky audio feed dropped for the world feed and they subbed it with their PLC audio


kingfrank243

That's why in the opening laps before the redflag there was no david or niko, after the race started again everything was back to normal.now it makes sense


lord_nuker

Thanks, discovered that it come back after the red flag


f1reds

I'm currently watching the 1999 season, half through it, and I've been wondering for some time now what happened to Damon Hill. He was consistently beaten by Frentzen, who by comparison with other drivers I'd rank below Hill, and by a large margin. I'm watching just the races, so maybe I am missing some background lore. The only thing I got from the commentary is that he was somewhat displeased with Jordan's performance that year, but I don't know if there's more to that. Did he have any further problems? Were there issues regarding his relationship with the team, kind of like Seb at the end of his Ferrari experience? Did Frentzen just do an incredible season? I am just very surprised by this.


BuddyTheLab

Weakmind, quite literally, he said it multiple times he was scared of driving


f1reds

Wow, that's a surprise, thank you. No wonder he retired after that season.


cafk

The 99 Jordan had some reliability issues until mid season iirc


f1reds

Not really, at least by that season's standards, most DNFs I've watched so far have been because of collisions and accidents. In that sense Hill made a lot more mistakes as well. But in any case, when both drivers were on track, Hill was found typically behind HHF.


cafk

Sorry, i thought of the 98 season - he had issues with the grooved tires in 99 and was considering quitting mid season at the british GP. I'd say that he was past his peak by then :/


Appropriate-Fan-6007

Is "Carlos Sainz is underrated" the most common take in F1 right now? Did everyone decide he is a future champion thought to be a top midfield driver? A top midfield driver thought to be an average middle of the pack guy? In reddit it seems to happen less often but "Carlos Sainz is underrated" is in my feed every day in every other f1 community


mangofunyun

Can only speak for myself here — but I do think on the whole he is a slightly under rated driver. He’s a strong driver, and a very solid mid field contender. He’s fast and smart. However, I am not convinced he’s a future world champion unless he’s in a car that is superior to the rest of the field. I don’t think he’s aggressive enough to be a world champion. I think generally to be a champion you have to be aggressive. (Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel.) Obviously there’s more to it than just aggression, and other drivers have won who don’t fit this mold. I’m not convinced Prost fits this description. The current drivers who I think *could* be world champions are (in no particular order): Verstappen, Leclerc. I think Russell and Norris may have a shot too, but im not convinced they’re as ruthless as VER and LEC.


Appropriate-Fan-6007

I have the same view on his skillset and overall rating, just behind the drivers that show something special in terms of pace and talent, but that's probably most common rating i see about him, so i don't understand why the underrated status is so strong.


mangofunyun

I’d say he is under rated because he (IMO) was (before 2020) just a standard midfield driver. But he has put together some great races in 2020-2021 (making points/podiums when the opportunity arises), and he is in his first season at Ferrari where he is crushing it. He doesn’t get the attention that drivers at Merc/RB/McLaren + Leclerc + Russell get. Even though he’s a hell of a driver. Thus, seen as underrated. I hope in 2022 he get the credit he deserves // have a chance to compete for more podiums.


OV1C

When we're back on the track, I'll have gone to psychiatrist. I hope the track will boost my mood


cars_a_wreck_now

So just to follow up on this...so sorry. Maybe Zandvoort will be better.


OV1C

Hey all g, thanks for following up, I must have done my maths wrong because it's actually this Fri not last Fri. Hopefully yeah! Fingers crossed for max winning in his home base haha


cars_a_wreck_now

Sounds good, good luck to you!


BornenCornen

Watching the 1998 Season i'm midway through Silverstone, why did Mclaren ditched the West logo for the symbols?


BuddyTheLab

Not only McLaren but all tobacco sponsored cars came up with solution to """""""remove""""""" the branding


cloudlessfloor

They didn't, some countries forbade cigaretts promo display, so the teams would invent different liveries instead of tobacco ones.


BornenCornen

Oh that makes sense, thank you very much


colterpierce

Reminder that NASCAR starts on the Indy road course for the first time ever in less than ten minutes. Well “starts”, but NASCAR is much less prompt than F1.


sharklazies

Only 1 more week to get through! Race week doesn't count. Glad the teams got a break, but I'm way more glad that summer break is almost over.


E36E92M3

le mans is next week!


IHaveADullUsername

Join the club. Annoyingly am at a wedding for the Spa weekend so trying to work out the logistics of listening to qualifying during the service. Dilemma.


Appropriate-Fan-6007

i took the 2nd shot of covid vaccine on thursday, am not feeling well, sadly i can't go


IHaveADullUsername

That would work if it wasn’t in a different country and so I’ve already taken the second jab just to be able to go, and they know. Sad times


ElCharmann

I’m newish to F1. I’ve been watching old races and old season reviews and something that has caught my eye is that apparently having the team tell the second driver to let the first driver through was not legal. According to some of the reviews I’ve seen, its something that caused teams a lot of trouble. However as of right now, things are so different. It’s basically the norm and appears to be how the championship contenders built their team, with Bottas and Perez openly playing support to their first drivers, so I’m wondering why was this change put into place? Honestly seems like it makes racing a little bit less exciting than it used to be because it removes a layer of the competition. Are there any particular pros and cons to this change?


BigAwkwardGuy

It was made "illegal" after Ferrari received backlash in 2002 for making Barrichello let Schumacher by in the 6th race of the season. That didn't stop the teams from using them though. The most common phrase used was "X is faster than you", which was code for "let him through". Also the (in)famous Multi-21 in Malaysia 2013, and Multi-12 in Brazil 2012. It happens because usually the preferred driver is better and on better strategy than their teammate. Plus most teams would like to win both championships, constructors' and drivers', so they prefer the first driver win the races.


Nite124

Its not illegal anymore and team orders are kind of necessary now because of dirty air. The driver argument that "if he is faster than me, he can pass me on track", doesn't work right now because car in front has advantage and its difficult to overtake and if your drivers are on different strategy, its best to let one or the other go, otherwise the guy behind will lose a lot of time. Even the drivers cant argue with this fact. But next year if wheel to wheel racing becomes a reality, then we might see a reduction in team orders or drivers hesitant to let their teammates pass.


cloudlessfloor

It was made illegal after Austria 2002 and ban was lifted around 2011 since everyone undestood that teams were doing it anyway and there was no way to pin them down.


DangerousTrashCan

First of all, we gotta put a distinction between "teams not able to tell second drivers to pull aside" and "teams not able to keep second drivers". It was never forbidden to have a secondary support driver. Teams had favourites at any given moment in history. The rule only said that teams were not allowed to tell a driver **during the race on radio**, that he must let his teammate pass. But nothing stopped the teams from signing drivers in secondary roles and telling them before the race how to behave in regards to their teammates or even use code words on radio to communicate forbidden things to them. This being said, the rule did little to nothing to stop this behaviour from teams, which is exactly why it got removed. Lo and behold, removing it didn't make racing any worse, it's just easier for us fans to understand things, but racing itself is exactly the same.


BlackCatEspresso

A lovely example of coded messages everyone understood: Multi 21!


milkprogrammer

Why do the richer teams approve the budget caps knowing that they'd be losing some of their advantage as a bigger team?


BigAwkwardGuy

F1 was getting too expensive for everyone involved. Newey said it, Wolff said it, Binotto said it etc. The budget cap is one of the very few things most everybody in the paddock agrees on. However, a budget cap doesn't mean the smaller teams can catch up instantly. A lot of things aren't covered in the budget cap, some of which are 1. The salaries of the drivers 2. The salaries of the three highest paid people in the team 3. The costs associated with the factory like taxes, rent, utility bills etc. The bigger teams have the better drivers and the better employees working for them, and also the better equipment. The cost of the development of the engine is not included in the budget cap either, so there's that.


sharklazies

Because money was leaving the sport due to basically only 3 teams willing to spend $300MM+ every year. For the long term health of the sport, it made complete sense, in order to keep current money and hopefully lure even more.


pinotandsugar

Great comment, add to that the spectator value of F-1 depends on having competition throughout the field.


herO_wraith

Bigger teams can afford better accountants.


warmpoptart

Is it difficult trying go see an F1 race in person? Should I start with F2? It looks cool but I’m not super familiar. I live in USA edit: and where to watch live races?


Whycantiusethis

There's only one race in the US, at the Circuit of the Americas (COTA), in Austin, TX. The next closest races tend to be in Montreal, Canada, and Mexico City, Mexico. F2 isn't coming to the US (or North/South America) this season as far as I know, so it'll be more challenging to see F2 live. ESPN2 tends to cover the practice sessions, qualifying, and the race live, but it's the same coverage as Sky Sports' (UK) coverage. Otherwise, F1TV is the place to watch the races live, but there's a subscription fee ($26 a year for the basic plan, $80 a year for the more advanced version with on board cameras and team radio). It looks like F1TV also covers F2 and F3, but I'm not sure about that.


colterpierce

I’m still skeptical we’ll see F1 this year in the US. Our covid numbers are crazy high and getting worse every day and Texas is toward the top of the problem and it’s neighboring states of Louisiana has second highest covid infection rate per 100,000 people *in the world* right now.


[deleted]

[удалено]


colterpierce

This has nothing to do with US immigration policy or illegal immigration. The claim has been [discredited](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/aug/06/ron-desantis/ron-desantis-effort-blame-covid-19-spread-migrants/), [time](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/07/28/no-real-problem-with-coronavirus-surge-is-not-border/) and time again. It’s about Americans continuing to not be willing to do what it takes to deal with it. Ending covid restrictions too soon. Being unwilling to get vaccines.


pinotandsugar

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/americas-immigration-system-is-a-covid-superspreader1/


colterpierce

That article doesn’t prove the point you think it does.


mwickholm

F2 and F3 only race at F1 weekends, and no, it's not difficult in a way that you should start with something else first. Of course it may be more difficult to follow everything that happens in a race when you're at the track compared to watching it on tv, but that's true for all kinds of racing.


Meaisk

What do you think is the worst crash of the season yet? Max Baku, Max Silverstone, Imola rus-bot or T1 Hungary? I think it's hard to judge because there are 3 different types of accidents here


MRShockwaveMusic

In terms of safety: Baku. In terms of championship impact: Silverstone. In terms of fucking hell that's piss poor driving: Hungaroring.


BigAwkwardGuy

It's a toss up between Max at Silverstone and Bottas at Hungary for me. Max at Baku would've been a lot worse if the car swerved the other way, which it thankfully did not. Hungary T1 was absolute carnage but it wasn't worse than most crashes in terms of the severity. Max at Silverstone was just, unbelievable. I am still shocked as to how Max walked away without any major fractures. The car skipped over the gravel, and the crash showered bits of the car on the spectators as well. The Imola incident was also horrible because George's left front literally went on top of Bottas' halo at one point. Thank fuck for the halo, how many lives has it saved by now? Charles at Spa 2018, the clusterfuck of Mugello 2020, Grosjean, Bottas at Imola 2021 just in F1. IIRC there were also a few in F2/F3.


E36E92M3

Imola gets my vote because there was absolutely no need for it to happen. Overtaking a car 10x faster in the rain from the outside was very dangerous and both Williams and Mercedes paid a heavy price. The battle also had literally zero consequence for the title, only the personal careers of Russell and Bottas Max at Baku was a tire blow up which was out of Max's control. Nasty crash but not much that could have been done. Silverstone crash was also avoidable, but unlike Imola it's understandable that neither Max or Lewis would back out in such a close title fight Hungary was just generic T1 wet race chaos


JanklinDRoosevelt

>Overtaking a car 10x faster This was not true during the race. Russell had better pace than Bottas so an overtake attempt was completely fair


E36E92M3

I'm sure Russell learned a valuable lesson about the amount of grip available on a wet curb that day


Whycantiusethis

The Baku crashes (Stroll and Verstappen) could've been really bad had they ended up in the middle of the circuit versus closer to the walls. A collision between a stationary car and one going as fast as the cars do down the main straight at Baku could result in a fatality.


mowcow

Or if they went to the left side instead of the right. The pitlane is to the left and if they were to hit the pit wall straight on at those speeds it could have been horrific.


Whycantiusethis

I think it was Rosberg who said that the Baku pit straight is the scariest part of any track on the circuit.


mowcow

'Worst' in what sense? Silverstone was the highest G-forces. Baku was the fastest. Hungary had the most cars involved. Imola I thought looked the most violent, but that's just a subjective opinion.


Astelli

How about Bottas & Russell at Imola?


Meaisk

Damn forgot about that one


ZiggyLJ

When will merc announce 2022 driver lineup?


MRShockwaveMusic

Somewhere between now and March 2022. Seriously, there is no benefit to anticipating the news, it will be announced sooner or later anyways.


DieLegende42

All involved parties have publicly said they want to have it all sorted by the end of the summer break, but when it's announced is totally up to them


mowcow

When they feel like it.


Plugfix27

I’m confused when people say if Bianchi was alive then Vettel would have stayed at Red Bull. Vettel and Ferrari were in deep talks prior to the 2014 Japanese GP and Vettel informed Red Bull about his switch before the before the race event at Suzuka. Could someone clear this one up for me?


AnilP228

I've never heard someone claim that. More realistically, Vettel and Jules would have ended up as team mates.


Plugfix27

I saw this comment earlier and asked- https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/p49g5c/what\_is\_an\_insane\_event\_that\_would\_happen\_if\_you/h8ys39c?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3


IHaveADullUsername

I don’t think that comment is to be taken all that seriously.


Plugfix27

Wasn’t the first time this topic has come up either.


BuddyTheLab

They are simply wrong. Bianchi was going at Sauber in 2015 with the goal of replacing Raikkonen in either 2016 or 2017 (knowing Marchionne hatred for Kimi, 2016). Vettel going at Ferrari was never in doubt


cuteguy1

Would Russell be as 'close' as is he is to the Merc seat without Sakhir last year?


TheExtreel

Yup, he's been Mercedes' golden boy for a while now, Sakhir just made everyone realise he could be up to the task, but Mercedes already knew that.


JanklinDRoosevelt

Yes. Mercedes tried to sign him last year for 2021, around Monza iirc, so well before Sakhir


Whycantiusethis

Wasn't it Claire Williams who "vetoed" Mercedes signing Russell?


JanklinDRoosevelt

Yes


Appropriate-Fan-6007

I think Sakhir put him closer but Mercedes would probably have no doubts left right now anyway


DangerousTrashCan

Yes. Sakhir was more like a reassurance for Mercedes, but not a deciding factor.


ninja4029

Why was Hamilton’s 2011 much worse than his other years ?


Firefox72

Hamiltons father Anthony was his menager, mentor and support through out his whole career. I think them spliting up after 2010 really hurt Hamilton. Even though he never admited it. He then split up with Nicole Scherzinger who he had been together for 4 years mid season which just pilled onto it. He just didn't look right mentaly through the season which led to some stupid crashes and comments.


RaikkonensHobby74

Was 2011 when he tweeted the telemetry?


cloudlessfloor

Add to that that since Button's arrival he lost his undisputable number one status in McLaren. Button wrote in his book that he suspected that his (Button's) good performance did upset Hamilton and he might've even been a bit paranoic (Turkey 2010 team radio added to that) and didn't trust the team as much as before.


MrMnkyPnts

I'm looking at using F1 (as on organisation) for an 'Innovation Management' module in my Master degree. Where would one find the best source of innovation information originating from F1? I've started at the racing teams sites but, as they're not public, finding information (strategies, structures etc) is not easy.


richardb20

How come F1 on-board cameras produce shaky video, whereas MotoGP on-board cameras are.sliky smooth?


MRShockwaveMusic

But F1 onboards are really stable though?


richardb20

F1 onboard video is as shaky as ****, when compared to MotoGP.


cafk

Moto GP cameras use optical image stabilization since ~2010 for the sensors, based on data available for the processor, same as many flagship cameras on phones do now for their primary sensor. This was developed specifically for Moto GP by their commercial rights holder, Dorna Sports with Vislink. The downside is that it doesn't really reflect what the drivers see and experience on track Edit to clarify: the technology wasn't specifically developed for Moto GP, it has existed for a longer time in professional space, just that the packaging and this implementation was done specifically for Moto GP with their camera supplier


dot01

Probably some form of stabilisation


helderdude

I would guess it's (partly) because motor gp is on two wheels and F1 is on four which means F1 has sudden shaky clock or counter clockwise movement when one of its tyres is on a kurb for example, motor go only has up and down movement when it's going over a kurb. I hope I explain that clearly enough.


bwoah07_gp2

Under the old numbering system based off constructors position, was there a clear rule on how to dish out the numbers? The obvious one is reigning WDC gets #1 and his teammate #2, but what other drivers, specifically those moving teams? For example, if a team holds #7 & #8 for the season, would the incumbent driver get #7 and their new teammate #8 because of tenure, or is it passed off of WDC, which means it could be either one of them getting the first number? I always assumed it was based off of previous WDC position alone, but I ask because there are many past examples that counter that. Two that come to mind is MSC always got the lower of the two numbers Mercedes held despite Nico Rosberg finishing higher in WDC each time, and in 2010 Felipe got the lower Ferrari's numbers even though Fernando finished higher than him in the '09 WDC.


Astelli

Numbers 1 and 2 went to the reigning WDC and their teammate. After that the numbers were handed out based on each team's position in the WCC.


bwoah07_gp2

Yes, but what I want to know is once those teams get those numbers based off their previous WCC position, do they distribute it to their drivers based off previous seasons WDC position, tenure at the team, or some other system?


king_flippy_nips

The teams were allowed to make up their own criteria as they saw fit. When Nico Rosberg and Michael Schumacher were teammates ROS got 8 while MSC got 7, even though Rosberg out scored Schumacher. Micheal had a superstition about having an odd number for that situation.


Astelli

I believe it was just the order that teams entered their drivers for that year, similar to how the FIA has an "official" driver order for the current field if you look at the entry list document they send out for each race. Tsunoda is listed ahead of Gasly at Alpha Tauri, for example, despite clearly being the less experienced rookie driver.


habitualmess

What’s the reason for not getting rid of power steering?


MRShockwaveMusic

Maybe the cars have gotten too quick that wrestling the steering constantly has become a safety concern? I honestly don't know.


helderdude

I am in favour of only adding rules and regulations if we gain something from it, if both options are equal I would say go with the one that has the least rules. So, imo, it's the on the no power steering to make it's case, what do we gain from implementing a rule that forbids power steering? Not how it changes the sport but in what way does the sport improve?


habitualmess

I generally agree with the whole “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” thing. I probably should have reworded my question as “why did they introduce power steering in the first place?”. Was it simply to make driving easier? Or something else that I’m missing?


Nite124

F1 cars are heavier, more hp, go faster around corners, go faster across a lap. Long season, long races, more inputs/adjustments on the steering wheel during the course of a lap. The power steering is hydraulic and not electronic assisted. End of the day F1 is about driving skill and not about which driver has the biggest forearms. Since having it doesn't impact much on the skill of the driver or developmental cost or gap for a team, its fine to keep it.


helderdude

>why did they introduce power steering in the first place?”. What do you mean with that? I assume teams just started using it because it's easier to steer a car with power steering.


[deleted]

Well that's kind of the point of the discussion right? It's also easier to drive the cars with Traction Control, ABS or automatic gears, yet these were all banned, arguably because it takes some of the skill out of it. The same could definitely be said for power steering when it comes to the physicality of the sport, F2 for example is much heavier on the arms.


helderdude

To your point about why those are banned and not power steering **I think** it's because they are fundamentally different in one aspect: those all take a way a skill of the driver/ some area that the driver can mess up in. Where as power steering changes what skill is needed, but doesn't remove a skill. Which of those two type of steering skills is better (very objective ofcourse) could be argued about and I'm not saying one is better then the other. Point is that it doesn't remove a skill/ something the driver needs to consider in their mental calculations when driving.


helderdude

But those were also not introduced, they were banned at some point, I was just confused about what they mean with introduced.


Astelli

The perception is that it won't make any difference to the racing, other than possibly causing drivers to make more mistakes.


gravemadness

Someone kindly directed me to a website that showed avg race pace of all the cars from 1980 onwards. I noticed that in 2018, Ferrari were usually a tenth or two within the Mercedes in the first half of the season(sometimes ahead) but then from Singapore, they were suddenly more than 0.6s off the pace of the Mercedes. Why did that happen? Did Mercedes develop their car way more than Ferrari?


cabesasiniestra

they brought a failed update to singapore that slowed the car down. they had the update installed for two more races, and tbf russia is a merc stronghold and in japan both ferrari drivers made mistakes, so 0.6s might be skewed a bit too high once they removed the update the car was ready to fight merc again. kimi managed to win in cota, his only victory during his second stint in ferrari. mexico was good for them, but possibly had to do more with merc not working properly than ferrari performing well. brazil was poor and abu dhabi as always was a merc stronghold


wegpleuracc

Their upgrades implemented in france pretty much made mercedes never look back anymore. The dnf in austria kept vettel in contention for a bit longer but it was super unlikely vettel couldve won after that, gap couldve been smaller though.


revocarr

New to formula 1 question. Was Schumacher ever as hated as Hamilton seems to be? I get how people can get bored with one team dominating. I was never a fan of Tom Brady, but seeing him play I could very much appreciate witnessing one of the all time greats. Obviously, Brady is not universally beloved, but was still an overwhelmingly popular figure. Whereas, with Hamilton it seems like there's a lot of hate out there! Which is surprising because it seems like Schumacher (like Brady) is a lot more factually hateable given his penchant for some very scary driving sometimes. Am I reading this right? Maybe I'm only able to judge based on our little corner of the internet and it is not representative? Are there other examples of widely hated dominant talents who are compareable?


Nite124

If half the hate Hamilton gets is not because of his color then Schumacher would easily be the most hated driver today. Imagine today if a driver won a championship after it was found out that his car had an illegal software in it. Imagine if today a driver, overtakes the race leader in a formation lap twice, then on the next formation lap, does it again twice. Then he gets a penalty that he has to serve in the pits by lap 21 and he doesn't obey it and continues to race. Then he gets black flagged/disqualified from the race and he still continues to race and comes 2nd and does all the podium celebration. Imagine if today a driver is leading and gets penalized and gets a penalty that he has to serve before the race ends, but he does it on the last lap and wins the race in the pitlane by crossing the finish line in the pitlane. Just some examples and these aren't even the scary driving.


EnlightenedNight

Social media extrapolates the hate as you can access more opinions, but generally the lone dominant driver is never super loved. Same for Vettel in 2010-2013. Lewis will be looked at much more positively after he's retired.


wegpleuracc

The reason schumacher doesnt seem hated as much anymore is cause its a long time ago. Will probably be same with hamilton in 15 years.


Most_Virus_7218

I hated him so much as a kid. Mainly because I was rooting for Raikkonen. Nowadays I have nothing against Hamilton, but I haven't been following F1 as much as I used to. I think the hate comes from people who are supporting a specific team/driver.


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Tetracyclic

>anglos >they cannot comprehend how is possible that people hate on hamilton Hamilton has always been a target for a not insignificant portion of the British press and population. I don't think anyone is that surprised by the dislike he attracts from some people.


herO_wraith

>cannot comprehend how is possible that people hate on hamilton Its almost like one of them was a cheat who even was disqualified from a championship one year, and the other isn't.


BuddyTheLab

The seethe never stops, lol


Astelli

Yes. At least in the UK, Schumacher was never particularly popular during his dominant years at Ferrari. As you say, there were also plenty of accusations of unfair and dangerous driving with his track record too.


TheWebbFather

>As you say, there were also plenty of accusations of unfair and dangerous driving with his track record too. They weren't accusations, that's actually what happened


Astelli

I agree, but the reputation for being a dirty driver persisted for much longer than a lot of the incidents that created that reputation. Schumacher towards the end of his career was still aggressive, but the sort of stunts we saw in the 90's were pretty much being stamped out.


TheWebbFather

The only one I can think of in his Mercedes days was the one in Hungary 2010 with Barrichello


fadhilanugrah

How spicy do you guys think, the opening lap race up the hill of eau Rouge and Radillon on Spa GP this year?


LetsEatGrandad

Very, without a doubt. Rain isn't a stretch either. Strap in


IHaveADullUsername

Depends on the qualifying order and which car between Merc and RB decides it’ll be quicker in a straight line. Or if McLaren are up there then everyone is in trouble.


fadhilanugrah

Considering the recent accident in the climb, will F1 driver be more reluctant to race wheel to wheel on the climb?


wegpleuracc

If verstappen still had a good lead in points he might have been given hamiltons current reputation but he has nothing to lose now so probably not.


JanklinDRoosevelt

Gasly overtook Perez up Radillon last year, a year after Hubert died there. It won’t be in their minds


IHaveADullUsername

Unlikely


evin_cashman

The Ypres Rally is at Spa today! Don't know if that's usual or not but it looks cool, anything involving Spa is good with me. I've gotten back into F1 this year so trying to get back into MotoGP and rallying too.


huangcjz

I haven’t watched Drive To Survive. Does it show any footage from inside the FIA Stewards room when the Stewards are debating and making decisions about penalties, etc.? Is it as all-access as that?


SubcooledBoiling

I don't think so. It's mostly behind the scene footage of the teams and drivers, and Will Buxton spewing his fanfic


Meaisk

They'd probably be allowed to but it doesn't fit the show.


evin_cashman

Nope it doesn't, as far as I remember. I think it has one or two bits where team principals are talking to the FIA and the cameramen are outside and there's a few snippets of audio. Like when Horner protested that dual action steering that Hamilton used in 2019 I think.


Fajandar1

DAS was 2020 btw, last year so Season 3 of DtS


omegacel71

2016 Suzuka is a very underrated race. Hamilton falling down to 8th place. Fight between the red bull boys and the ferrari drivers. Hamilton making his way up the field and verstappen defending from him. Kinda believe that 2nd last lap defensive move should have gotten a penalty.


helderdude

Just a question but wasn't moving under breaking outlawed after ( and maybe even because of) that incident with Verstappen ?


cafk

One defensive move under braking, with leaving a cars width of space, was introduced in 2012, before that it was a more generic "one change of direction to defend" being allowed, without allowing to move back on to the racing line - that itself was introduced for 2011. For 2017 this rule and it's wording was just moved from Formula 1 sporting regulations to the International Sporting Regulations, Appendix L


BuddyTheLab

It goes against the narrative of Hamilton losing 2016 only due to bad luck and not because of races like that so is to be ignored. Then again, slicing through the field in one of if not the best F1 car ever compared to the field it's not a difficult feat


MRShockwaveMusic

I mean he was about to take the lead in the championship as he was leading the race in P1 in Malaysia while Rosberg was 4th when his engine blew up and made him have a deficit of around 25 points after that race. With five races to go, it was gonna be a tough ask to turn around that deficit without Rosberg having a shit race. He ended up winning 4/5 of those grand prix and only Suzuka went to Rosberg and it wasn't enough as Rosberg finished second in every race since. Both Rosberg and Hamilton had poorer races in that season, but Rosberg had way less mechanical issues during the season than Hamilton and with 5 pts at the end being the gap it's definitely the mechanical issues that decided the championship. I mean Rosberg at some point had nearly a 50 point advantage in the championship with no DNFs after the Barcelona crash and Hamilton still clawed back that deficit. It was obvious who was the better driver that season, Rosberg was just good enough to capitalize on Hamilton's misfortunes and fair play to him on that, but there is no narrative of bad luck, it is simply how it went down.


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omegacel71

At the start after the problems he was at 19 seconds from Rosberg. By the end he was around only 6 seconds behind Rosberg. And could have won the race if it hadn't been for verstappen. He would have gotten P2 and won the DC if it hadn't been for verstappen's illegal defense.


helderdude

Difference in points was 5 points at the end of the season and p3 to p2 is only a 3 points increase so it would not necessarily meant he got DC right ?


omegacel71

Yeah. I had mistaken it for 3.


BuddyTheLab

It's really funny how you people always fail to realize Rosberg was simply managing his pace to be safe nstead of pushing for no reason and risk failures like some other teammate of his did, lol.


Appropriate-Fan-6007

I saw the same argument for Bottas catching up to Russell in Sakhir, Russell was still 3 seconds ahead and had engine problems because of a sensor earlier in the race