T O P

"Our slavery is not like their slavery"

"Our slavery is not like their slavery"

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ferengiprophet

The phrase is, "our slavery ***was*** not like their slavery", but I changed it to, "***is***", since Islamist slavery is ongoing. Growing up, I heard this phrase being said over and over again by Islamists trying to justify & rationalize Arabian/Muslim/Islamic slavery. Despite the intellectually dishonest whitewashing, 'our slavery' was beyond inhumane and is still ongoing. Link to the video on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov9GFPmoOPg


Exmuslim-alt

Christians also make the same arguement. Its always "but see our god *tried* to help (of course not by saying slavery is wrong), by regulating it. The slaves wanted to be slaves, its just like jobs(except without pay and they are owned, and passed down to the owners children, and the owner can have sex and hit them). They couldnt have outlawed slavery since it was so profitable and useful, but they could outlaw alchohol, pork, apostasy, and *certain* kinds of slavery(ie. Slavery against fellow people of the religion)." Christianity and islamic slavery has been outlined in their holy books and hadith. They dont describe it like jobs, but slavery. They go to war with other tribes, then take the women and children as slaves. Thats absolutely disgusting. Nobody willingly gives up their freedom to become a slave. An omniscient omnipotent god like allah/YHWY should know exactly how to end it, or at least try to advice against it.


gambleroflives91

reality is that, a slave was like a status back than. It wasn't a racial thing, it was viewed as normal Now, we are modern slaves, we are being rented :P. If someone from 2000 years ago would come into our modern world, his first impression would be that, we are all slaves. And it's true.


arrow-of-spades

On a metaphorical level, yes. But you can legally change your job, not work for someone and stsrt your own job, etc. It's hard and for many people impossible because of the distribution of wealth but it's not slavery. By calling us slaves, we're belittling the experiences of actual slaves.


pridjevi

the difference in amount of rights and respect differ. does it appear this black guy got any respect (ok even if we don't consider the racial angle) , just look how they examining as if examining. fridge they buying. idk why worship past so much. we are living in an unprecedented era of equal(ish) rights and peace time, we worship the past cause we aren't satisfied by the present but overlook how far have we come. present capitalistic or communist societies are but a pale shadow of atrocities before. yes, even after factoring in Stalin and Mao. we don't discriminate in name of religion or race(ok we do, but not in terms of rights), and if situation sucks, at least we have the power to leave. whether it be a tribe or corporation or country. there have been so much good, and yet imo few times have been better than today socially. maybe in parts of time in Middle East, Persia or India.


gambleroflives91

Nobody is disputing that now, we are living in the most peaceful times. I agree that owning someone, implies more rights over him, ofc it does. But you can argue that owning someone, implies that you take care of him, much better compared with renting someone, where you don't care as much about the person. Colonialism, imperialism was different. This was not only a slavery thing, but they committed atrocities. But, it was a normal thing to own slaves. It was like a status. Everybody had slaves. It wasn't something bad. Now, yes, having a slave, is something terrible., owning someone. We laso have to recognise that, we are modern slaves. There are people who work 2 jobs and still barely survive. This is modern slavery.


pridjevi

I don't buy it that ppl work harder today to make ends meet. imo this has always been the case. at least I'm not working for a feudal lord. If you're saying slavery was a stable system and not so bad, I don't agree. there were many restrictions and if u feel they had a life of dignity, which I really value, I feel its mistaken. anyway let's agree to disagree, I dun wanna discuss more..


pridjevi

I don't buy it that ppl work harder today to make ends meet. imo this has always been the case. at least I'm not working for a feudal lord. If you're saying slavery was a stable system (which it kinda was) wasn't not so bad, I don't agree. there were many restrictions even for the free non elite people. and if u feel they had a life of dignity, which I really value, I feel its mistaken. idk just don't worship the past seeing present isn't perfect. anyway let's agree to disagree, I dun wanna discuss more..


pridjevi

I don't buy it that ppl work harder today to make ends meet. imo this has always been the case. at least I'm not working for a feudal lord. If you're saying slavery was a stable system (which it kinda was) wasn't not so bad, I don't agree. there were many restrictions even for the free non elite people. and if u feel they had a life of dignity, which I really value, I feel its mistaken. idk just don't worship the past seeing present isn't perfect. anyway let's agree to disagree, I dun wanna discuss more..


pridjevi

I don't buy it that ppl work harder today to make ends meet. imo this has always been the case. at least I'm not working for a feudal lord. If you're saying slavery was a stable system (which it kinda was) wasn't not so bad, I don't agree. there were many restrictions even for the free non elite people. and if u feel they had a life of dignity, which I really value, I feel its mistaken. idk just don't worship the past seeing present isn't perfect. anyway let's agree to disagree, I dun wanna discuss more..


ferengiprophet

Please stop rationalizing and apologizing for Islamic slavery


da_real_nixton

Wait still going?


ferengiprophet

Yes


Exmuslim-alt

By who? And sources?


ferengiprophet

* Around [6,383 Yazidis](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/25/slaves-of-isis-the-long-walk-of-the-yazidi-women) (mostly women and children) were enslaved by ISIS in 2014. As of Aug. 3, 2021, around [2,768 Yazidis](https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/aug/03/still-going-through-hell-the-search-for-yazidi-women-seven-years-on) haven't been rescued yet and are still missing. * As of 2021, migrants in Libya are being enslaved to be used for sex and labor: [https://guardian.ng/news/women-migrants-reduced-to-sex-slaves-in-libya-hell/](https://guardian.ng/news/women-migrants-reduced-to-sex-slaves-in-libya-hell/) , [https://www.growthinktank.org/en/the-return-of-slavery-in-libya/](https://www.growthinktank.org/en/the-return-of-slavery-in-libya/) * There are around [3 million slaves](https://www.dw.com/en/life-of-slavery-the-perpetuation-of-bonded-labor-in-pakistan/a-51792298) in Pakistan (bonded labor / debt bondage)


Exmuslim-alt

Holy cow. Why arent people doing anything about this.


ferengiprophet

They are but they need more resources to do their jobs effectively


gaunterodime

Oh libya, the place that Obama and his friends fooked cause ghadaffi was a ''dictator'' with one of the highest gdp and education in the muslim world and now is ran by terrorist groups looking for power and looks like a cod map. isis the one created by Hillary and Obama and armed by them to create same result as libya which resulted in deaths of million muslims but yet only crime is the yazidi one cause you know yazidis are christians and ex muslims don't care about muslims being enslaved or killed by terrorists.


pridjevi

there is peace in Libya for last few months and they are having an election, lets hope there will be peace in Libya ✌️.


pridjevi

bonded labour exists in India too and on a large scale. it's terrible how legit no one talk about it.


[deleted]

Read about the Yazidi women and how their family members were destroyed via purging and sexual slavery. This was going on just within the past few years.


HansAuger

Apparently they use apps nowadays for trading :/ [https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50228549](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50228549)


ferengiprophet

I think it's ironic how they hate & reject the West but then go on to use tools made by the West such as the internet, smart phones, operating systems like iOS and Android, and social media apps like Instagram and Twitter. Hypocrites.


HansAuger

Oh well, in the long run I think it is for the best if information is spread and if anyone can participate in that man-made miracle of internet. So let them have it. I find it worse that they fucking trade slaves. I'll prefer an non-slave trading hypocrite to a slave-trading dipshit anytime.


Hindsight2K20

Saleh Al-Fawzan is an Islamic scholar and has been a member of several high religious bodies in Saudi Arabia. He is considered to be the most senior scholar of Islam in Saudi Arabia. Here is his opinion on slavery… "Slavery is a part of Islam […] Slavery is part of jihad, and jihad will remain as long there is Islam." As for the modernist interpretation that Islam totally abolished slavery, he dismissed its opponents saying, "They are ignorant, not scholars. Whoever says such things is an infidel."


riddledwithanxiety33

There were some Muslims on Twitter asking for slavery to come back


Hindsight2K20

Disgusting but not entirely surprising, their are voices in the Salafist movement that advocate for slavery’s return.


riddledwithanxiety33

It's horrible and it really shows me that if it wasn't for international pressure, slavery would propbably still be legal in the Muslim world.


Feniksrises

I don't think there has ever been a movement to end slavery in the Arab world.


username_mixtape

Brazzerr it was halal slavery that’s the difference you guys don’t get it


ferengiprophet

*Verily*


DrivenAssimilator

Slavery is disgusting. It's really depressing that even in this golden age of science and technology, it still exists.


ferengiprophet

That's why we have to get our message out there


HaramXL

Never seen this one before. That poor guy. Imagine the helplessness he must have felt. On his own turf he’d be able to kick all their asses with ease and then make them eat their turbans.


riddledwithanxiety33

I wanna see Muslims try and excuse this shit and why their 9banger prophet never banned it!


Acceptable_Corgi_553

Mo said to treat slaves well, meanwhile Jihadis go around raping non Muslim women. What ISIS did is nothing new, I don't know why people are so shocked. When Arabs started invading Persia and Eastern Roman Empire, they did the same to Persian and Christian women. They did the same to Hindu and Buddhist women from Afghanistan, Pakistan to North India.


riddledwithanxiety33

Exactly but what do you expect from people who deny the Arab slave trade even happened?


Acceptable_Corgi_553

My Imam went though all sorts of excuses to play down slavery and more importantly sexual slavery. A part of my family are Ahmadis and one of their Imam basically said that Muslim warriors were doing these women a favour by taking them instead of being turned towards prostitution, I was like dude it was the Muslim men who killed those women's husbands, fathers and sons etc. Seriously I don't know wtf is wrong with Muslims when they defend such filth. And this is coming from a religion that claims to be perfect and for all times for all people.


Emmet_C

This makes me sick. What sickens me even more is Muslims who still justify slavey. All because they can't get over fellatioing a desert pedophile warlord.


seraphinth

There's no bigger God than Money, The fact that Christianity, Islam, Judaism all of them failed to topple down slavery which happens to be one of the biggest trading commodity of their time just proves that the almighty God cowers in fear of destroying the economy.


ferengiprophet

Not only that but these religions *encourage* slavery. The Arab Slave Trade increased in size after the advent of Islam.


Mahmoudisfake

Lol that's just a lie, one of the many reason that slavery is abolished in the middle east is Islam, also showing instead of showing a random ass video which is conveniently and almost professionally shot by camera, why don't you show the rules in the actual Quran and sunnah about slavery, oh wait you can't, because if you do that will just ruin your point


Typical_Athlete

Would you be fine with non-Muslims raiding your land and taking your mom, wife, sisters, daughters etc as their slaves? Because that’s essentially how Muslims enslaved people in the first place And slavery was only abolished in Muslim countries after Western countries did it. Tell me one scholar that was born before the 20th century that had a negative view of slavery or even predicted that slavery wouldn’t exist in the future.


CatsAreSoCute11

Not true. Give me a verse from the Qur'an that says to abolish slavery. In the Qur'an it says it's ok to have sex with your slaves. Not one verse bans slavery completely. Don't lie about your own religion. Also the reason there's videos of this stuff is because of how recent slavery was actually abolished. The west had to force the ME to ban it. And even though it was legally banned, people still traded slaves because their amazing prophet did the same thing.


Acceptable_Corgi_553

Quit the lies Muslim, US had to put pressure on Arabs to ban slavery in GCC, ironically they still have slave labour. Unlike in the past where they bought or raided non Arab countries for slaves, today they just trap migrant workers, take their passports, put them in horrible living conditions and pay them peanuts. Your whole GCC shiny buildings are built upon blood of migrant workers from South Asia.


ferengiprophet

That's why I'm going to boycott the World Cup. All the stadiums and infrastructure were built by slave labor. The Kafala system is a slave system.


gogolhador

OP, do you have more context about this footage (date, country...) ? I know slave trade was a reality in islam and some islamic countries were the last to officialy abolish slavery but I'm wondering if this particular footage is 100% legit or (partially?) staged...


ferengiprophet

>OP, do you have more context about this footage (date, country...) ? I only know what it says [on the video and in the video's description](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ9VnLySznw)-- that this video was recorded somewhere in N. Africa in a slave market. >I know slave trade was a reality in islam and some islamic countries were the last to officialy abolish slavery but I'm wondering if this particular footage is 100% legit or (partially?) staged... The clip is from this documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov9GFPmoOPg


dgdisueydisodishja

This was disturbing to watch, wtf


ferengiprophet

I agree


Godse-Chad

I am surprised it's so recent that it was recorded on a camera


Acceptable_Corgi_553

Have your forgotten what they did to Yazidis? Killed their men and took their women and children as slaves. Even the Muslims who didn't support ISIS were silent on the slavery issue because slavery is an integral part of Islam.


sladethehunter

To this day, I hate the Arabs so fucking much. And these bastards are still as colourist and racist as ever. Fuck them and their dessert bandit religion that has ruined my country and turned a large part of it into a terrorist wasteland.


Representative-Row44

Yes fuck their desert bandit religion but I don't think hating on a whole race (Arabs) would be a good thing to do.


sladethehunter

I don't think your country or part of it has been turned into a terrorist wasteland by salafis sponsored by places like Saudi and Iran.


Representative-Row44

I'm guessing your country is Afghanistan?


sladethehunter

No actually. My country is in Africa.


Representative-Row44

Maybe somalia?


sladethehunter

No lol.


Representative-Row44

Is it in North Africa?


Representative-Row44

And btw my country was born just bcz of these arab superstitions,so you can already guess how much this religion disunited our people but still hating a whole nation wouldn't be justified.


sladethehunter

Fair point. I'd say, I don't hate the regular Arab on the street (except the racist assholes. Zero tolerance for that), but their religion and frankly their culture especially the toxic parts(which is a product of the religion).


Representative-Row44

That's more better.Anyways, what matters is that at the end of the day we both hate Islam.So cheers for that🥂


sladethehunter

Cheers😅😅😅. Thanks from bringing me out of that dark spiral. It's so not worth it.


Representative-Row44

Haha no worries


AdSuccessful1394

Somewhat prejudice against arabs. And no, they are not racists


gogolhador

thank you for your reply. I will check the long documentary, which link you sent me. I think the first footage you published was a bit staged but it is still likely that the people pictured are indeed arab mrrchants and black slaves and that the situation, though slightly carricatured, is pretty accurate...


ferengiprophet

Since you responded with a new comment instead of continuing the previous chain of conversation, I'll repost the link to the documentary here so that other people will know about it as well: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov9GFPmoOPg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov9GFPmoOPg)


gogolhador

my mistake..sorry


ferengiprophet

I didn't mean to be accusatory, it just came across that way. My apologies.


Historical-Score312

Been saying this but as soon as islam is mentioned the convo is redirected to islamaphobia — smd


gaunterodime

The Quran is the only holy books that asks to FREE SLAVES and forbids taking free man as slaves (like US slavery) as the only slaves are prisoners of war that if you never heard can ask to be freed themselves and pay for their freedom. this is not a joke, slaves in muslim empires had the right to work and free themselves i'll just leave this here for all the inferiority complex ex muslims out there.


ferengiprophet

>The Quran is the only holy books that asks to FREE SLAVES No, it isn't. The Bible encourages Jews to free other Jewish slaves: "If your brother, a Hebrew man or a Hebrew woman, is sold[a] to you, he shall serve you six years, and in the seventh year **you shall let him go free from you**" [Deuteronomy 15:12-18](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+15%3A12-18&version=ESV) >forbids taking free man as slaves Can you link me to the verse? > only slaves are prisoners of war ...and those who are already enslaved. Islam incentivizes Islamists to make war by allowing them to enslave the prisoners of war (the most recent victims being the Yazidis). They make money by selling people into slavery and they can lure more young men, who don't know any better, to fight for them by promising them sex slaves. What you didn't mention is that Islam is a militant, expansionist ideology so there's always the opportunity to enslave people-- they didn't get from Makkah & Medina to places in Asia, Africa, and Europe by fighting defensive wars only. [Any group of people who aren't Muslims can have war declared against them](https://sunnah.com/muslim/1/36)-- even Muslims can have war declared against them by another group of Muslims who declare them to have left the fold of Islam (ex: ISIS & AQ fighting each other in the Syrian Civil War and ISIS & the Taliban fighting each other in Afghanistan). >that if you never heard Condescending much lol >can ask to be freed themselves and pay for their freedom. this is not a joke, slaves in muslim empires had the right to work and free themselves Sure people can work to free themselves but not before enduring the trauma of being treated like a commodity. For example, some Yazidi women were fucked by their slave masters and sold multiple times before they finally managed to escape or were helped by various agencies and government workers. >i'll just leave this here for all the inferiority complex ex muslims out there You're projecting, dawg.


gaunterodime

Why do you say Quran doesn't say that when you don't know yourself and are asking for the verse? just say you don't know. \*( 4:92 ) And never is it for a believer to kill a believer except by mistake. And whoever kills a believer by mistake - then the freeing of a believing slave and a compensation payment presented to the deceased's family \[is required\] unless they give \[up their right as\] charity. But if the deceased was from a people at war with you and he was a believer - then \[only\] the freeing of a believing slave; and if he was from a people with whom you have a treaty - then a compensation payment presented to his family and the freeing of a believing slave. And whoever does not find \[one or cannot afford to buy one\] - then \[instead\], a fast for two months consecutively, \[seeking\] acceptance of repentance from Allah. And Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.\* The Quran incentives the freeing of slaves in multiple verses and hadiths even more coming from the prophet pbuh who himself freed slaves just like his companions.also islam doesn't incentives going to war, every verse that speaks about war has a next verse that calls toward peace if the enemy goes toward peace. The bible was used as an excuse for race slavery, Now you keep mentioning the yazidis and you're not mentioning they were enslaved by ISIS a terrrorist group that killed and enslaved way more muslims than yazidis. ofc you are being deceptive linking a terrorist group to islam meanwhile muslims got rid of isis and suffered more casuality. but in your head christians are worth more than muslim blood so thats normal for you. Slaves ie prisoners of war had to be treated good as workers basically, we have 4 dozens hadiths that speaks of this. ofc you will change the goal post after and say ''slavery is bad'' no shit slavery is bad, but taking free man as slaves is the real slavery. prisoners of war turning working slaves that can free themselves is way better than executing a prisoner.


ferengiprophet

If I were to give you evidence to the contrary would you be willing to change your mind-- or even consider doing so? Lastly, I didn't downvote you.