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Why are Muslims so condescending?

Why are Muslims so condescending?

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lessthan1punchman

According to muslims, if you say things angrily, vehemently, loudly, stubbornly, or arrogantly, that means it’s “true.” Do not give them an inch if they try and pull this bullshit. Tell them up front if they want sharia law, go to a sharia country. Else they are munafiq enjoying haram life in the west. Go down the list bombarding them with things that they do which are haram. Ask them about riba. Ask the women if they go out without mahram. Ask them about products they use. I guarantee they have eaten non halal food. Call them out on all of it, very very vehemently because that’s all they understand.


[deleted]

The best strategy to use with Muslims is to ask them questions. Don't make any claims. Don't give them any statements. Ask them questions about their religion. They will eventually crumble with anger and doubt. They'll leave the conversation angry and defensive, but very doubtful of their religion because they won't be able to answer your questions.


[deleted]

Asking questions is a good strategy, they do your work for you and people are less hesitant to resist ideas they themselves have come up with. They’re ego isn’t hurt as much and it encourages them to continue asking questions.


asfo_or

If he actively wants sharia he shouldn't go to a shari'a country he should be stopped, these ideas are morally wrong and inapplicable everywhere.


Able-Acanthaceae-541

Because they think they’re superior. I went to an Islamic school way back in the day, and we were taught things like you don’t have to politely move out of a walk way for non Muslims (ie. The kuffar). An Algerian Islamic studies teacher taught me this, in America.


AdustyBucket2

My dad said the same thing


AppleofDiscordia

My "Dad" brought me to the west and then told me not to be friends with anyone non-muslim. Prevented my mom and I from watching television too lmao. Like why come here?


Able-Acanthaceae-541

Ugh. My mom was worse, because she was born in the USA(she was a convert). She would berate and criticize me if I befriended anyone who wasn’t Muslim too. I remember our neighbor was this annoying tiny kid and she would only let me play with her, even though I was 10 years older. She would get MAD at me if I didn’t want to and start saying I wanted to be friends with “pork eaters”. Like, wtf was my childhood? Why?


AppleofDiscordia

Can't imagine children making bonds so effortlessly and purely and having those bonds broken at the whim of the parents. It's sort of sick and probably definitely affected our attachment styles lol.


AppleofDiscordia

LOL same things happened to me. I remember my dad would not allow me to be friends with this Egyptian girl because her sisters were "hoes," for having boyfriends. He forced me to be friends with this one girl from my background and then tried to end my friendship with her after she got a boyfriend at 13. I was so lonely growing up lol. Now I've become the hoe. I've slept with all the ethnic backgrounds/nationalities I think he would cringe at thinking of me sleeping with. Oh well lol


asfo_or

This is abuse I'm sorry for that,. I wonder why Muslims in the west are often more radical than in the middle east? Could it be they are insecure and desperate to make their kids Muslims too?


Hisham_Malik

>Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it. **[ Darussalam ref: sahih muslim 2167a ]**


[deleted]

In my country in the Middle East, we're taught that, too. And many other forms of superiority of Muslims over non Muslims


Hisham_Malik

>Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it. **[ Darussalam ref: sahih muslim 2167a ]**


Ohana_is_family

It is just a rhetorical trick. If you become defensive you'll perform worse. "you have to show me what you morality is based on" is another common ploy. You can try some deflating techniques yourself too. Answers like: "I just had too leave after discovering how immorally Muhammed and the companions behaved" "I considered staying for the wife-beating but I just couldn't". "I read a lot about it and the more I read the more I just had to leave" "Islamic culture has some beautiful aspects, but the immorality...just got to me"


[deleted]

> >"I considered staying for the wife-beating but I just couldn't". Lol I'm dying The perks of being a man in this religion!


Ambitious-Concern256

That last one is a killer ngl


invincible_blaze

What is your morality based on?


asfo_or

I don't mind this one, if it's not coupled with the " what's stopping you from fucking your mother". Cause it's often asked with curiosity. It's in fact one of the arguments some people use to "prove" the existence of a creator Morality throughout human history was based on nothing, people deemed the rules that helped their society moral and those which didn't immortal and they constantly changed them. Religion leeched on the version of morality that it was in use when it came to light and froze it through time that's why they're incompatible with our modern world. So you can theories your morality like many philosophers try to do. Or accept that like many other human creations it comes from practice and trial and error then the theory comes later be it in the form of holy scriptures or a philosophical doctrines.


Ohana_is_family

On interpretations. Just like yours. The ISIS-member igniting a fire under a cage with Shia and deviant-sunni-fighters, remember those images? They all had different interpretations and thought they had "Objective Morality". ​ I base my morality on what I think to be Universal Morality. Things like Murder is bad, harming people is bad, if you do eat meat, then try to have the animals treated and killed as humanely as possible. things like that. Intercourse with a 9 year old is vigorously rejected as immoral because it risks serious harm and the child is not old ennough to give meaningful informed consent.


invincible_blaze

How can you have Universal Morality without God? Who decides what’s good and bad?


Ohana_is_family

You mean Muhammed did not know the difference between good and bad until he was in his thirties? Poppycock. Morality, a sense of good and bad is innate in people. It is part of living. Denying that other people have morality is nonsensical. Some things are quite universally believed like "you should not cause harm" "you should not be cruel/intentionally harmful". You may have been told that you get your morality from God, but that is a lie. Your morality is interpreted and comes from people. Nobody has a morality from God. Simplest proof is that you do not even have the same morality as other Muslims or even your own Imam, there will be differences.


invincible_blaze

Is slavery allowed in your Universal Morality? It’s been an accepted practice by cultures throughout human history. Plenty of cultures cause unnecessary harm to animals as part of their traditions.


Ohana_is_family

\- Slavery is wrong. There is evidence of people objecting to slavery as well. \- If people mistreat animals then I consider that wrong. Don't you? I think even Muhammed said one should take proper care of animals. \- Do you consider intercourse with 9 year old girls not immoral enough to dump that religion? I do.


invincible_blaze

Let’s take two examples, slavery and women showing their skin. There are cultures throughout history which have endorsed and practiced slavery. There have been people who object. There are cultures throughout history which have tried to regulate how much skin a woman can show. There have been people who object. Now why can you come along and say slavery is wrong and women showing their skin is morally neutral. Where do you draw your morality from? Clearly not from innate human values because innate human morality has led us to all sorts of contradictory moral systems and behaviors. There are plenty of “innate human compasses” which have pointed in the direction: “I am better than this group of people (women, Jews, blacks) and therefore I should be able to exercise my will over them. Clearly the idea that you were born into “the right culture” is a nonsensical argument. Is morality determined by the majority then? Slavery was practiced and accepted, sure, but the vast majority of people are against it. Forcing women to cover up their entire bodies is practiced and accepted, but again, most people are against it. On the surface this seems like a logical basis for a moral system. But this argument breaks down when you focus on animal cruelty. Almost the entirety of the western world is on board with animal farming practices that you’d probably consider abhorrent if you saw them with your own eyes. But if we go by the logic of the majority, then we must consider the cruel treatments of animals as moral, or at the very least, not immoral. I’m atheist as well, but I’d strongly advise you to reconsider your stance on objective morality because it’ll lead you into a lot of traps that you can’t get out of. There is no way to argue for objective morality without appealing to some higher power, some golden standard of absolute morality. And Allah and Jesus are clearly not good candidates lol.


Ohana_is_family

I do not claim that there is an objective morality. So that is not a hole I am in nor need to get out of. >Slavery was practiced and accepted, sure, but the vast majority of people are against it. People practice theft, cheating etc. that does not mean they think it is morally good. (although they do try to justify it, to feel less bad). >Forcing women to cover up their entire bodies is practiced and accepted, but again, most people are against it. It is the forcing element. It is not free choice at all. Victim blaming. >Almost the entirety of the western world is on board with animal farming practices that you’d probably consider abhorrent if you saw them with your own eyes. But if we go by the logic of the majority, then we must consider the cruel treatments of animals as moral, or at the very least, not immoral. Some animals I ate may have been treated badly. But one cannot control everything. The laws and consumer behaviour can help. But I am not going to feel immoral all the time. I am not a Janist.


anoniimouse

>When was the last time you guys discussed Islam with a Muslim without any of these being brought up? I actually have intellectual debates with Muslims quite often. Three of my cousins studied sharia, two at the University of Medina (Saudi), one at Al-Azhar University (Cairo, Egypt). I have amicable discussions with them every time I see them. In my experience, the more knowledgeable Muslims (who somehow still believe in it), are less insecure and thus, less hostile. It is the average Joe Muslims and the local, informally educated "sheikhs", who don't actually *understand* what they are saying, they are merely parroting what they've been taught, who seem to be the aggressive ones. Purely insecurities, really. Unfortunately, in Islamic communities, there isn't really any recognition of formal Religious education. Any random with enough clout, charisma or conviction can be recognized as "knowledgeable". A lot of community leaders are like this. There also isn't really a tradition of challenging these men, so their followers are loyal and overzealous. One (in)famous example of this would be Zakir Naik. Despite what many people believe, he actually isn't formally educated in Sharia. He technically *shouldn't* be qualified to say the things that he says, but the way Islam works, he apparently is and so he does and he has millions of followers all around the world. Pretty sad, really.


Ambitious-Concern256

I see, I didn't see it like that before. Even I assumed people like zakir naik were educated formally about Islam. The only Muslims I've ever had intellectual debates about this are maybe one or two close friends. But that being said the arguments were just the same as what most average Joe Muslims give. Is there any argument you've had with your cousins that you don't see most Muslims making?


anoniimouse

>Even I assumed people like zakir naik were educated formally about Islam. He isn't. I mean, it's a bit more complex than that. If we were to convert it to the equivalent of other Academics. To make the statements that Zakir Naik makes, he'd need to have a PhD in Islam. Zakir Naik at best, has a Bachelor's degree. I'm not even sure he has that, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is still an Academic, because he has PhD's in other fields. Just not in Islam. >Is there any argument you've had with your cousins that you don't see most Muslims making? Most of them. lol I'd be here forever if I listed them all. I'll mention our most recent exchange, though. It was essentially them saying that there's nothing wrong with men and women mixing in social gatherings. Some background context. I've always been taught that mixing of the genders in Islam is haram. In Islamic school, classes were always separated by gender. We were never allowed to have mixed classes. Even in family life, every house had separate rooms for the men to sit and the women to sit. It wasn't super strict, but for the most part, we were always separated. I was brought up my whole life believing that mixed gatherings were haram. We were also taught that being alone with a woman, is haram. Something about you're never alone, shaitaan is always with you or whatever. This is something that many of my Muslim friends believe, too. Due to Covid, it's been difficult for the extended family to see each other often. Lockdowns and what not. So, for the upcoming Eid, my sister is renting out a play centre, for the entire family to come and see each other instead of visiting every house separately. I'm in a whatsapp group with most of my (male) cousins that we use to keep in touch. I used this group to send out the invitation. One of my other cousins (not one of the 3 educated ones) asked me if I was going to be there. I said no, mocking them that it will be mixed (males and females) and that's haraam. They all know I'm not Muslim, so it was just some light banter. There was some back and forth, between us all, some of it joking, some of it serious. Then my cousin who studied in Al-Azhar schooled us. Apparently, there is no basis for such a thing. Men and Women are allowed to mix freely. The only thing that is haram, is if the gathering itself is for a haram purpose (a bar or a night club for example). The mixing is fine, as long as nothing haram is happening. When I asked him what about if you were alone, he said that's fine too, as long as the purpose isn't haram. He said it is recommended to avoid it if possible, to avoid temptation, but it isn't actually haram to be in her presence unless you do something haram with her. This created a bigger discussion. With many of my other cousins throwing out hadiths and other "proof" it was haram. Then a second cousin (one who studied at Medina) chimed in and said he was correct. So yea, it apparently really isn't haram to mix, according to my cousins. -shrug-


Ambitious-Concern256

I see, that's very interesting actually. I'd like to hear why exactly they think God is real then? It seems like their answer is something most of us on this sub haven't heard


anoniimouse

Hmm. No, not really. I don’t think any of their answers are particularly unique. I’m paraphrasing, but they all had a similar answer. Which was essentially just faith. In their hearts and in their minds, they believe because it gives *them* inner peace. It comforts them to have a purpose in life and Islam fulfills that role for them. How boring, right lol? I’m guessing you were expecting something mind blowing or some irrefutable evidence or something. Sorry to disappoint lol.


Ambitious-Concern256

Not evidence, if there were evidence I doubt any of us would be here. But more like a point of view about it we never thought about? Idk I was just curious what some actual educated Muslims had to say, I guess nothing we've never heard


anoniimouse

Yea, it’s the same ol’, same old, unfortunately.


asfo_or

I think it's important to state that, while certainly there is a scholarly debate ongoing about this subject it's fueled by pressure on the system. The general consensus or "igmaa" as they call it was against it until recently.


AirplaneKoala

Wait, did the jews actually pay any of you guys for leaving? I didn't get paid. Damn it.


Ambitious-Concern256

Same! Where are these Jews paying us, and how do I get some?


oh_how_droll

As an ex-Jew, can I get a Muslim to pay me?


Able-Acanthaceae-541

Every single time. Whenever I try having a polite, civilized debate it always always always ends with shouting from their side and then come the personal attacks, “Go be a free prostitute then!”


emax-gomax

These guys think they've found the single answer to every possible problem in the universe and they treat anyone unable to appreciate that as below them. The issue isn't them being condescending, it's them lacking the ability to reflect or posit the alternative. They wholeheartedly believe their right, so when presented with conflicting thoughts or opinions they either snobbishly profess their beliefs thinking their helping everyone find answers or childishly run away or detract from the argument at hand because they don't want to consider what if they're wrong. It's human nature to cower when faced with confrontation, the ones you describe just prefer to lash out thinking it makes them seem in the right.


munafir

Because the teachings within Islam inspire a superiority complex. While not all Muslims fall into this & it can definitely be seen in other religions, the example that Islam inspires is extremely prevalent & concerning. You only need to look at the various verses in the Quran dehumanizing disbelievers while teaching its followers that they are superior than others as some of the reasons this superiority complex is so common. It never ceases to amaze me when apologists believe that they are morally superior for avoiding premarital sex while defending sex slavery, but then again when an ideology isn't based on evidence & rationality putting others down while deluding oneself is the end result.


riddledwithanxiety33

Tbh I used to be like that. Thinking I was right and I was superior. This is honestly the first step. Just keep expressing your opinion and the smart ones will realise how much they've been brainwashed. I don't let them affect me too much because I know this is how they're taught to be.


y_polar

why did you become ex muslim?


riddledwithanxiety33

Mostly women's rights (or lack of in Islam). I started questioning after reading about sex slavery in Islam and how Allah allowed concubines. The arguments used to justify it didn't make any sense. Then Aisha's age was something else that made me feel really weird. How can I defend my religion when I felt weird mentioning that my prophet at 54 married a 6 year old? The arguments for this lacked any scientific bases and were just straight up disgusting. Then the idea of marriage and how a man can hit his wife (lightly tho according to scholars lol). Because men are 'caretakers of women' and they are 'superior'. I felt like a child, like a sex object in this religion to be honest. I have to follow everything my husband would say? Do I not have my own mind? Divorce was also questionable. A man can divorce a woman by simply saying it. A woman has to go to court. Why the difference? Because women are emotional? Baseless argument and not scientific at all. Men and women are both emotional. Men are more likely to act on anger than women - just turn on the news and tell me the ratio of men:women commiting violence. Witnesses in Islam. You need two women if you don't have one man because she might forget. What? A man can marry a christian and a jew. A woman has to marry a Muslim man. Women have to cover up but men are allowed to do wear whatever. You only show your body to your husband. Again, am I a sex object? Men in Muslim countries just look at women as if they're less than and a hoe if she shows a shoulder or something. It's just the human body. There's a lot more but I'm tired lol.


ferengiprophet

They have a superiority complex: Quran * **Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind**, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. [Quran 3:110 - Yusuf Ali](https://quranx.com/3.110) Tafsir * **Allah states that the Ummah of Muhammad is the best nation ever**... Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Hurayrah commented on this Ayah, "**(You, Muslims, are) the best nation of people** for the people, you bring them tied in chains on their necks (capture them in war) and they later embrace Islam..." [Tafsir Ibn Kathir 3:110](https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/3.110)


Succ69696999

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/ojvouh/muslims\_that\_talk\_about\_exmuslims/h54g9jw/?context=3


Ambitious-Concern256

You're right in saying they take an arrogant view to protect the idea that Islam is perfect. What I don't understand is how clear it is they're being condescending and wilfully ignorant even if we show them evidence that it's not tru- oh.


Succ69696999

i personally dont think this a selfconscious thought process, i think its something the brain does to protect their world view from being shattered. It is not an easy thing to go through. the implications it can have can be dangerous for both shattering your world view and you enduring this thought process.


blackswordsman6

When you believe you follow what’s true and others decide not to follow it some will become arrogant. I just think Muslims are more since we live in a time where no reform has happened to the faith yet. Wild though how western Muslims have the truth available yet never look into it. Yesterday I was on a Somali Exmuslim podcast and there we have a chat with other Somalis of other backgrounds and some Somali Muslims showed up and boy were they condescending and arrogant. Using those same excuses including the Jewish one.


Ambitious-Concern256

I seriously doubt reform will ever really happen to the faith, since a big point in Islam for Muslims is that it was never and should never be changed. I think rather the only thing that could happen is that laws in Muslim countries slowly become more and more relaxed.


blackswordsman6

I think when push comes to shove they’d much likely have it reformed than to die. I assume it’ll die off but before it does the zealots will finally try to reform it but by then it’ll be too late. But that’s mere intuition. Who knows though 🤷🏾‍♂️


FinancialDiscipline3

It was the last time i had debate wifh them. Bunch of sociopaths. Muslims remind me of Eric Cartman from South Park. They want themselves to be sooooo respected, to be bowed upon, fo be seen as cool, while demeaning others just with the presence of their religion, and the presence of their own.


jesushmacydgd

You could insert most of the Abrahamic religions in that box tbh. I think it’s a part of the faith that your suppose to be proud but human arrogance does a good excellent job of blurring the lines


HaramXL

I imagine it’s because they were taught the PG13/Edited for TV version of Islam only and they are yet to discover the real R rated directors cut version. I was the same, as were many i’d guess (though i never used any arguments at all, likely as i never had the need)


science_agnostic

Not all of them I talked to this guy he was really nice but they do say that a lot like my parents


AppleofDiscordia

LOL literally spreading lies about the literal opposite occurences that happened in islam that can be easily proven through Quranic verses, hadiths and history. Like?? Excuse me? My favourite being women were treated with repulsion and shit before islam.


bhosdiki

While at the same time praising Khadija and how she was such a rich and successful business woman. Utter nonsense


AppleofDiscordia

>LMAOO I've never thought about that. Great point.


Mythicaldonkey

Idk if anyone watched the live stream if you have tiktok. It was between a guy named Adel and Apostate Aladdin. Aladdin was making actual points which were valid. Then adel would just say ‘what’s your purpose in life then?? Where do you get yOur mOraliTy fRom??’ Literally deflecting the question overall.


Foodandanime

I’m a woman who left Muslim, so really the only thing I get is “You just wanted to be a whore”


Ambitious-Concern256

Honestly I can't imagine how ex muslim women deal with it, I bet they also say "women's rights are a western illusion"


[deleted]

>"just cause you were traumatised my Islamic tradition and law doesn't mean it was Islam, it was the cUlTuRe" this. whenever something good happens it's always "oh my brozzer thank allah yes brozzer aaaah" but something bad happens it's then "no no brozzer its cUlTuRe" or "that didnt happen"


MennaanBaarin

That's a general attitude, they think they know it all and the Quran is the true way of living and if you don't agree than you are stupid and naive. In reality they are less knowledgeable than a first grade student.


Atheizm

>Why are Muslims so condescending? Because their religion constantly tells them they're special snowflakes.


Substantial_Newt_997

You forgot "it's the same in Christianity"


WoodenSource644

Imagine complaining about Muslims being condescending on a subreddit that is condensdencing towards Muslims and Islam. The hypocrisy is real.


Ambitious-Concern256

The difference is this is kind of the only place I can complain about that, I do it almost anywhere else and I get killed. Meanwhile, Muslims talking shit about atheists is almost a pastime for them, they do it wherever and whenever they want, and we have to deal with it. Also, the complaint is real cause as you can see by the comments, almost everyone here has experienced being put down by a Muslim whenever they try to have a conversation about it. That's how common it is for us to experience this.


WoodenSource644

And I am pretty sure all Muslims have been experienced being put down in this subreddit or being called a terrorist on there way to school but that doesn't justify Muslims being condescending/rude towards Ex Muslims/Non-Muslims does it? Not specifically talking about your post bro dont worry but its ironic you post this comment here. And about your comment about some Muslims treating others bad..I am against it, the same way you should be against offensive/rude/condensdencing comments/posts on this subreddit.


Ambitious-Concern256

We don't target Muslims, the target is Islam. Most of us here have genuinely suffered because of Islam, and the consequences of leaving it. When Muslims are targeted, it's for the way they attack people who don't agree with them, trust me we would know. Also, being put down in this sub reddit is kind of a given? Who goes to a sub called ex Muslim to see praise about Islam? I am pretty sure almost every person on this sub does not condone discrimination due to someone's belief, so being called a terrorist on their way to school is not something we support. We also don't support it when it happens to us. Apostates in Muslim countries are usually killed, and you can't go to one Friday prayer without the imam preaching how people like us are evil at the end of the prayer. So when you talk about if its "justified" understand that we're talking about actual experiences that happen to us.


WoodenSource644

"We don't target Muslims, the target is Islam" Your post is literally generalising and attacking Muslims but okay and there are many examples of similar posts which are even more degrading and disrespectful or as you would put it "condescending". "When Muslims are targeted, it's for the way they attack people who don't agree with them" That's not entirely true, be serious. Islamophobia is rampant everywhere and still leads to my point, do 2 wrongs make a right? You people make a point how Muslims are so backwards and and not free yet you people stoop down to "our level", to prove a point which actually means that Ex-Muslims or common Islamophobes are no better than the very Muslims you target. "Who goes to a sub called ex Muslim to see praise about Islam?" Not my point, you don't believe people can respectfully debate or discuss about 2 things? Odd..since you claim that is what Muslims are incapable of doing. "I am pretty sure almost every person on this sub does not condone discrimination due to someone's belief" LOL. That is all I gotta say. Also I am pretty sure most Muslims don't condone discrimination due to someone's belief..xD See what I did there? xD " Apostates in Muslim countries are usually killed" Change of subject and you don't get to pick people to represent my sect/community especially if I am against these very people. Difference between me and you is, I am ready to defend all victims, yet you are only here to justify discrimination against Muslims by preaching the very thing you are against and by defending the clear condescending behaviour in this subreddit.


Ambitious-Concern256

You seem to be forgetting what this group actually is. It's a support group for ex muslims, and some of the "degrading" things on here are nothing less that the truth of what is in the religion. Not culture, the religion itself. And what exactly do to mean "stoop down to our level"? What kind of stooping have we done? When I say we attack muslims for the way they attack us, I'm clearly referring to those who think we're going to be punished for being apostates, gay, etc. Again, that's not the view of every Muslim, but it's definitely the view of Islam. Islamophobia is not the same as critique. Discrimination against muslims is wrong. Criticising them for the things they do is not wrong. That's why I say many Muslims can be condescending - because in most cases where they debate an atheist that's how they come across. "you don't believe people can respectfully debate or discuss about 2 things". What makes you think this? In what part of my post or replies made you think that I can't have a respectful debate? " LOL. That is all I gotta say. Also I am pretty sure most Muslims don't condone discrimination due to someone's belief..xD See what I did there? xD". Except the difference is I can show evidence for thinking most people on this sub don't discriminate against muslims. We even attack Hindu nationalists and people who come here solely to attack muslims ourselves. And most Muslims DO condone discrimination due to someone's belief. Forget other beliefs, muslims discriminate against other muslims based on just sect. "Change of subject". Who brought up being called a terrorist on their way to school again? "you don't get to pick people to represent my sect/community". Who says I'm picking people? The Sharia itself dictates that apostates should be murdered. There are 12 countries with laws supported by the Sharia to murder apostates. I'm not picking "people" I'm picking the belief itself. If you disagree, take it up with the Sharia. By the way, when you say things like "LOL. That is all I gotta say". That is EXACTLY what I mean with muslims being condescending. Thanks for supporting my points.


WoodenSource644

"You seem to be forgetting what this group actually is. It's a support group for ex muslims" Ah yes a support group that helps Ex-Muslims by helping them voice their "opinions" or should I say their condensdencing views towards Muslims/Islam. "Nothing less that the truth of what is in the religion." Most of things I read here are misrepresentations and false views as well as rampant Islamophobia. Your post generalising all Muslims is a good example. "What kind of stooping have we done?" The stooping of mixing our religion with lies and insults only to complain about Muslims being condescending back lmao. "Islamophobia is not the same as critique. Discrimination against Muslims is wrong." Agreed. So why do you complain about condensdencing Muslims in a condensdencing subreddit about Muslims. Don't kid yourself we both have seen that stuff that gets posted here :) You would be lying if you said this place is pure and civil critique based subreddit against Muslims. "What makes you think this?" Says the person who said this: "Also, being put down in this sub reddit is kind of a given?" So you believe people need to be degraded and put down for a discussion to be civil? Damn and you complain about Islam being violent. "Except the difference is I can show evidence for thinking most people on this sub don't discriminate against muslims" Lmao "And most Muslims DO condone discrimination due to someone's belief". Subjective generalisation based on nothing. That is like me saying "most Atheists are ignorant". "Who brought up being called a terrorist on their way to school again?" It was relevant to the point I made, the point which was a reply to your point :) "Who says I'm picking people? The Sharia itself dictates that apostates should be murdered. There are 12 countries with laws supported by the Sharia to murder apostates." Again you are literally forcing all Muslims to believe in a narrative. You said it yourself there are sects in Islam, with different sects come different interpretations, those 12 countries don't represent me and therefore, I also don't believe in their interpretation of Islam. Ironically you do..which means there is actually no different between you and those Muslims, you both are in the wrong for me and you both agree with each other's interpretation of Islam xD "That is EXACTLY what I mean with muslims being condescending" If you see how it is, then you need to call it as it is. I respect you for sticking up for yourself but you are not consistent and actually are being condescending yourself: "We don't target Muslims, the target is Islam." Probably the most false and idiotic thing you said and pretty condescending too seeing as your post contradicts your own statement.


Ambitious-Concern256

>Maybe we're a little off topic with the word condescending being thrown around so much, so let me clarify. > > > >The accusations ex muslims face from muslims are usually completely baseless. The assumption is that if we leave islam there must be reasons as to why we did it, not a flaw with the religion itself, but a flaw with the person who left. And, when there is this kind of assumption, there is an air of superiority when muslims discuss this with us. Instead of our arguments being taken into account, only the perceived flaw with our character. THAT is what I mean by condescension - the expression of the belief that we're wrong, in arrogant ways, with no clear evidence as to why we're wrong. I apologize if what I was trying to say got lost in translation. > > > >On the other hand, what is mostly posted on this sub is usually backed up by the OP with verses from the Quran or Hadith. If the OP can't back it up, be my guest and call it out. Nobody wants to deal with misinformation. That's why I don't agree with your view that we "mix your religion with lies". Just because you don't agree with the verse or hadith in discussion doesn't make it a lie. For example, if people were to ridicule the fact that the Prophet married a 9 year old, it is not "mixing with lies" just because it sounds wrong. It is completely factual, backed up by Hadith. > > > >When I generalise and say Muslims do condone discrimination based on belief - it's because its true. On an Islamic level, ex muslims are supposed to be executed. Almost every scholar, across the sects, agrees with this view. And most muslims agree with this view as well. If they didn't agree, then there wouldn't be 12 Muslim countries that are willing to carry out this law and execute ex muslims. Of course, there are some progressive muslims that don't agree with this - but they are irrelevant since the scripture does not agree with them. It does not matter if the majority of muslims agree with you or not, since they are the majority and therefore the general idea applies to them, not you. There is no "irony" in judging Islam by the belief the vast majority holds of it. > > > >Also, I expressed surprise at you thinking that ex muslims were not going to critcize islam? Like I said, it doesn't matter if it's rude, so long as it's true. > > > >I said we don't target Muslims, but rather Islam. And I stand by that statement. We target the immorality and logical flaws in Islam. If a Muslim believes in that, then we are attacking their belief. You mentioned how you don't see yourself being represented by the majority of Muslims. That's fine, if you don't believe the things we criticize, then the arguments don't apply to you. But don't act like we are blatantly lying about things.


WoodenSource644

What if I told you our sect of Islam can refute all these Sunni and ex-Muslim viewpoints of Islam? Would you like to join our discord server and give us your best arguments against Islam? This is my challenge to you. Accept it or not?


Ambitious-Concern256

My best arguments against Islam/religion in general? Sure. What is your sect of Islam, and why do you believe it is superior to other sects? Can you name a scholar that you believe is a good source for learning about this sect so I can do more research on it?


greaterparrot3

Muslims here don’t say that Jews pay exmuslims to leave I’ve never seen that


Ambitious-Concern256

I've been accused of it bro