By - NoBS3434
**RUN**. If she is a "mentally in" (believing) Jehovah's Witness, your marriage is doomed before it even starts. I can't stress this enough. Unless she is completely ready to leave the religion (*and is convinced it is false*)... **RUN**.
RUN FOREST RUN
lol...but it's good advice
Ya I was just adding dramatic effect. This is serious stuff that RUINS lives and families. I almost committed suicide.
It's awful what influencers are doing to people without remorse...I'm sending you tons of hugs and glad you're here and I hope you can save others needing to hear your encouragement.
Thanks, I will always speak up if I ever hear someone bring up becoming a JW.
And if you don’t, do not under any circumstances get children where one of the parents are PIMI.
Just guard your kids. I can tell you from experience that you don't want them getting involved in ANYTHING jw. If she calls things "worldly", she means you and your children too.
She doesn’t use the word “worldly”. I did because I started to research this wacky cult and that word came up often
Ex-jw here. 24 yrs a witness and 21 yrs out. and I’ll say this: She may not be using the word “worldly”, but I guarantee she is thinking it.
Just because you love someone doesn’t mean you’re supposed to be with them. Get out while you can.
YES. I’ve met too many adult JWs who came in on their own after being exposed to JW teachings as children ( a Bible study or even just getting a copy of a “My Book of Bible Stories”). The ideas struck them deeply as children, as children use more magical thinking and are less critical. Then as adults, they’re almost inexplicably drawn in.
please protect your kids!!!
This woman is what we call POMI. Physically Out, Mentally In. Also, you do not have the full story of how she came to be disfellowshipped. She didn’t get DFd because her husband cheated. There’s more going on she hasn’t revealed. She’s either hiding it from you, or she’s been lying to herself. Given the circumstances, it’s probably both.
Unless she wakes up and gets “mentally out”, meaning she deals with her indoctrination and comes to believe the WT is a dangerous cult, this relationship doesn’t stand a chance.
And if you’re dumb enough to put a baby in her, you’re going to have to live with the knowledge that her family will be trying to indoctrinate the baby into the cult. And they don’t allow blood transfusions, so if the child has medical issues or an accident, you’re going to constantly have to fight to make sure the kid gets good medical treatment. Also, the church refuses to take any responsibility regarding child sex predators. So the kid will be at risk at meetings.
>I’m even more scared of her religion.
Good instincts. There is a lot to be scared of. It is a destructive cult.
>but is currently excommunicated because she got divorced (husband cheated).
There is more to this story. The faithful mate is not usually disfellowshipped for divorcing if her spouse cheated if they're following their own rules. Either she cheated, they both cheated, or there's something else going on. Find out.
>She stated that won’t happen, and no one is going to try and convert me.
If she intends to go back some day, there WILL be pressure on you. Love bombing creates a feeling of obligation and lowers your defenses. Soon JWs are coming to get-togethers at your place. Slowly but surely, you get more involved until you're in it.
If she goes back, you can't go see R-rated movies without judgment. No Christmas presents from mom. Where's mom on Saturday morning? Knocking on doors, not with her family.
It's not necessarily doomed per se, but there are tremendous risks and a lot to figure out first. Above all else, don't make any commitments before you're comfortable and satisfied.
Good luck, friend.
> The faithful mate is not disfellowshipped for divorcing if her spouse cheated. Either she cheated, they both cheated, or there's something else going on.
Normally, yes. But the rules are made up and it's common for Elders to do whatever the fuck they want.
This is true. It's possible she was innocent and wrongly DFed. It does happen all the time. OP should find out. He made it sound like the act of getting divorced is what caused the DFing, which shouldn't be the case, but your point is well taken.
They (elders) do attack or disfellowship the wife or husband who was not cheating but because they went ahead with the divorce of the cheater. Especially because she's a woman OF COURSE she will be blamed for something in that failing marriage by the elders. This is actually pretty common.
thank you for relating all of these important factors
I had to leave the love of my life because she couldn’t see this was a cult. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do but I don’t regret it for a minute. Take some time reading other posts on here and checking out some resources people in these comments are sharing. Best of luck 👍🏼
Can I ask how this progressed? I am currently in a relationship with a JW for a year+ this time (we dated for a year in 2009 as well) and he has recently reconnected with the JW community. I respect his choice, he has found his answer to what was troubling him but I will not be converting, under any circumstances. I just want to try to understand how I can move forward.
>I just want to try to understand how I can move forward.
You cannot. Maybe this sounds harsh, but the WT will *always* come first. It may take a few months... A year... A few years... But eventually, you will come to a point where you have to choose between converting or being shunned. He will say, "that will never happen", but unless he comes to his senses and leaves the JW cult, *it will happen*.
Better to cut your losses and move on while you still can.
I keep waiting for some sliver of hope, but I honestly just don't think it's there.
Once I woke up from my indoctrination and began sharing my reasoning our relationship only lasted another 3 months or so. It was during this time that I learned that the reason JWs are so devoted is entirely emotional. No amount of logic or reason I shared worked with her. I was called prideful, cowardly and that I’ve been manipulated by Satan and am worthy of death at Armageddon in the near future unless I change my mind. Mind you, we were just planning our wedding together a week or so before. This is the mentality of most JWs. It needed to end. This wasn’t someone I can spend the rest of my life with and build a family.
Thank you for sharing. I am still holding on to some hope that this isn't going to destroy us but I am not confident.
You’re still dating, right? Pose this hypothetical situation to her: “What if the Watchtower came out with an article stating that any JW dating or married to a non-believer must immediately sever the relationship or get disfellowshipped? What would you do?”
See what she says.
Also, make time to listen to some of the Shunned podcasts. Very revealing and exposes the Elders ridiculous contradictions which you and your children will be subjected to.
Your instincts are right. As much as you might love her your marriage will be very hard to keep together. The fact that she is still avoiding holidays is a big red flag. It means she is still mentally in. Which means that she will be going back. Pushing marriage is another red flag.
What every body else said is correct. There will be pressure to convert. Pressure about holidays with your kids. No matter what she says now. Its just not how JWs work. She might fully believe she can do it but it wont work.
And no innocent spouses do not get Df'd definitely more to that story that you need to hear.
Edit: please protect your children. We’ve got our lives ruined by this religion, and I don’t count the ones who died. Please. Run
I can’t stress this enough, DO NOT marry her unless she fully wakes up and disavows the religion and it’s beliefs.
There are resources you can share with her, like the Crisis of Conscience book, jwfacts.com, the BITE Model, and the Lloyd Evans YouTube channel, though her agreeing to look at these is a bit of a long shot.
The fact is the organization will monopolize her time, try to force her to raise your children as witnesses, and as long as she believes and you don’t, she will believe that god will kill you any day now as Armageddon is very imminent and he will be killing all non-JW’s, including you and your children.
She cannot be friends with non witnesses. She cannot celebrate holidays or birthdays. She cannot watch rated R movies with you.
This is a cult. Stay as far away from the cult as possible. If I had taken my own advice, I wouldn’t have been left alone in my mid-20’s with no one from my past allowed to communicate with me, forced to start over
we are all in your situation. left alone and start from scratch.
this is a family ...
My wife and I read your post and what she said to me is very interesting.
Your jw girlfriend, who is currently disfellowshiped, cannot be reinstated if she is having sex outside of marriage. If she was to go to her elders and tell them that she is dating you and you two are having sex (which they will ask), the elders will make her wait longer to be reinstated. She would then have to either end your relationship, or marry you, in order to be reinstated as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and continue your relationship.
Something to think about or even ask her about.
There has been a lot of good advice given here. I’ll just add a pice of my own experience in the hope that it might be useful to you.
I was raised a jw and married a good jw man. We were both high up in the congregation, but eventually I just started to wake up to what I was dealing with. I came to the conclusion that I needed to leave the religion.
As I said, my husband was a good man, and I loved him very much. However, when I chose to leave the religion, I chose to leave him as well.
Because I knew we would never be on the same page. I knew he would always hope that I would come around to believing, meaning he would always hope I was someone different. I knew we could never have the same friends, have discussions about politics, or raise children together without a lot of strife. It has been eleven years and I still believe I made the right decision. I believe it was the kindest thing I could do for him, and I still do.
From everything I've read on this sub, POMIs are the least stable people in the JWs.
How about this, suggest that she fully leaves the religion and see how that is taken. I'll put money down on it not going well. Also, there is no guarantee that she won't have a religious crisis and desperately try to get reinstated, which has a good chance of turning into conversion for you or another divorce.
The only thing I know for certain is that you should reflect on your amazing time together. Is it truly amazing or is it amazing because it is novel? Is it so amazing that you would be willing to convert? Is it so amazing that she would be willing to leave the JWs behind? I don't need your answers here, but you do.
You’re right, something about POMI. I was POMI from 18-23, then went back to being PIMI for couple more years before I left for good. During POMI days, I was such a guilt ridden mess and had the lowest self esteem for not being able to “get my act together” and felt like such a loser. That and being married to a non-JW, just too many conflicting goals and emotions.
Are you guys having sex?
If you are, ask her if she’s having sex and trying to date a worldly man, why can’t she open presents on Christmas. But a relationship with god is not toxic, a relationship with the god of JWs is. So if she’s still avoiding what’s worldly then it’s likely she’s mentally still in. I’d tell her to figure out what she really wants in life, and when she figures it out to call you. But that you don’t want her if she’s got one foot in the religion and one foot in your marriage.
Run. Far and fast. They will try to convert you, but when they fail they will ostracize you. Ignore you. You and your wife will lead two different lives. Yours, in her mind, leading to the execution of you and your children. In the meantime, they will control what she views for entertainment, what sort of job she can have, what she reads, what she learns, what she does with all of her time, what healthcare she can or cannot have, and even what she can and cannot do in YOUR bedroom. You would be marrying a brainwashed member of a cult.
Source: Member for the first 38 years of my life.
I would test her on something first. See if she will read "Crisis of Conscience".
If she refuses, you know she is still captive to the concept and that organization...and pursuing a marriage is likely a waste of your time and could turn into a nightmare.
If she agrees to read the whole book, then you will have your foot in the door to opening her mind to it not being "the truth".
If she reads it and her mind is blown. Ask her to read Ray Franz' follow up second book, which blows the whole concept apart in great detail...and could clear the way to her becoming everything that you think she is capable of.
Here is the link to both books that I always post...
I actually love this idea!
Thank you everyone for your wisdom and guidance. I do love her but love isn’t everything. I need to feel comfortable in my own home, and with JW’s I don’t like how rigid they are. I’m on the fence and she feels the distance. We did talk at length about what that means for our future. She said she knew I would never convert nor does she want me to. I do believe her in this. I don’t believe her that the society will not try to convert me. It just really blows because I am incredibly attracted to her and her to me. We have been having tons of sex, partying, living life and laughing often. Once married the sex will stop…and all I’d be left with is watch tower teachings and no decorations lol
Ask her this “if you do not want me to convert, then what will happen to me at Armageddon?”
Spoiler, her god will execute you and your children.
Spoiler 2: she will want you to convert. As will all of her friends and family.
You have been having "tons of sex" but she can't live with you unless you are legally married? Sounds kind of odd.........
Wtf do you expect, she's one of those on-the-fence JWs. They are literally the worst because they can't make up their minds but they do shit constantly outside the religion but then are begging to be let back in. They call people apostates who try to help them and that night go fuck their boyfriend.
Ok I didn’t read this that your having “tons of sex” then what I said a moment ago applies. She is more about appearances to JW and prioritizing them over you. Friend she is breaking the “rules”partying having sex etc- of course she doesn’t want you to convert because deep down she doesn’t want the religion either. It’s a cult. She needs to “wake up” and realize that herself. Watch Leah Remini series Scientology- the last episode is about JW- both religions have similarities- but make sure to watch the videos on Scientology and then let it come to the last episode naturally-may be easier then reading a book together. That’s what woke me up! I saw the similarities and by the end of the 3rd season with the JW episode I was ready for it. Then tell her to look up the Australian Royal Commission on YouTube -
Trust me she will watch Leah Remini Scientology because it’s not from an exJW and I didn’t think it had ANYTHING to do with the religion I grew up in. Just tell her your interested in it since someone told you about it. I bought each season and like I said it planted the seeds to do more digging into JW.
The Raymond Franz book is labeled “apostate” from the JW org so start with Remini 1st. No label on that- JW label/judge EVERYTHING including what you can and cannot do in the bedroom!
If you love her trust me she will thank you for waking her up and freeing her!!
Enjoy the sex man!!! And the partying!!! Need to get the JW out of your relationship -ugh- just saying
At least you recognize that. Good luck, my friend.
She may not try to convert you, you’ll just be the family leper.
My wife promised me not to teach the kids religion at govt subsidized daycare. I come home early a few days ago, what’s playing the 6 kids to sleep? Jw Bible stories.
Her defence is they are all jw kids and our son asked to hear them. They would be getting Christmas stories at another daycare. Ok fine.
They just can’t be ethical, with god allowing them to go back on promises. Because to her it means the children’s life.
If your kids are under 14. Break up. Just my advice.
Forbid any jw access. If they’re way younger, time wears down, the love bombing the kids is intoxicating to them. They’ll be on stage getting applause and laughs. Over 14, make them have school friends and coed relationships. They’ll be ok. Encourage critical thinking skills. Posters up in their room. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com
We don’t know your wife. And honestly, anything is possible. I can just about makes things work with my wife most days, but I have a lot of religious trauma, and will probably bow out soon :(.
It’s not doomed. But most witnesses don’t know what they believe, and won’t think about it enough to be honest about it in plain (non cult) language.
Watch “right between your ears” with her.
Ask her if her attachment to the organization and not wanting to live together is more about family and being shunned socially than her personal moral beliefs. Same with holidays - it can simply be uncomfortable to participate for former JWs out of habit of avoiding it.
If she’s having sex with you, then she’s likely not working on getting “reinstated” (being admitted back - no longer shunned). Not sure why sex would stop if married… Nonetheless it’s private, but living together is visible to the community, and it will definitely keep her in a shunned state. She may desire to work towards being reinstated, even if just for family contact.
Tl;dr There’s a possibility her attachment to JWs is about family connections and she doesn’t want to do certain things because it would keep her shunned longer. Ask her what she really believes and wants.
So you two basically only have a physical relationship (nothing wrong with that btw) and you’re already worried it’ll stop if you get married.
The fact that this seems to be your big worry screams run away on both ends. Eventually, if not already, she’s gonna feel awful about this since she’s still mentally in.
Whatever you do good luck. Me? I’d have one last fuck and break up.
Lol. And life without decorations is just sad...especially around Christmas! ;)
Honestly, it's pretty perplexing where your gf draws the line: she's fine with sex and partying and will even go to Thanksgiving or Christmas parties, but won't open presents?!? That sounds a bit insane. My brother is also POMI. He's faded, not disfellowshipped. He celebrates the holidays and birthdays with his exjw siblings, but refuses to cut loose and have sex. Of all the sins, jw's are obsessed with the sin of sex. Sex should only be done missionary style in a marriage, so boring AF. ;)
What I'm getting at is that POMIs are incredibly confused and create even more bizarre and arbitrary rules they follow. And often when they return to the cult, they are obnoxiously zealous, trying to make up for all the sins they committed when they were out.
PLEASE do not get married before you're ready. She's already imposing the cult in your relationship. She's fine having sex outside of marriage, but can't live together without being married? Again, there's no logic there. It's something she wants to appease the cult.
And PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not expose your precious babies to this toxic cult. Let them enjoy their childhoods and be surrounded by people who will love them unconditionally.
Woe...having sex? She should be disfellowshipped, and shunned....so if she doesnt care, maybe shes a keeper. Married an ex jw myself, but we have a kickass Christmas tree, decorations, food....theyre out there. Helps having the same background - which you guys dont.
She is currently disfellowshipped.
She's not an ex. She's a POMI, made obvious by her own words.
Excommunicated is disfellowshipped. Cuck.
Unfortunately spot on
Now that is funny when you put it that way!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
in marriage it’s so important to agree on such big matters like xmas and holidays, for her not to be apart of it is going to cause problems in the long run. and no matter what, she’s gonna see u as below her when she gets reinstated! trust me run the opposite directing from that girl! love doesn’t cover al things trust me haha good luc
Run. Run far. Run fast. She is in a cult and already bending their beliefs by dating an outsider. This shows she is someone who will bend the rules when it suits her. She is just a crisis of faith away from doing anything completely irrational under the guise of “this is what Jehovah wants”.
Try putting things on the table. How are holidays going to look? Do you need to be there for her When her jehova needs come around.
You should challenge yourself on what you are both willing to commit.
I’ve heard of jehova witness later down the line marrying someone who isn’t jehova witness. But again, it depends on much she is into it all.
I considered my self still part of the faith when I got with my lady. But all of that it’s gone and now I’m getting married. Good luck my guy.
I wouldn’t do it and if she is DF’d she doesn’t have to play by their rules. They’ve already done the worst to her. The fact that she is DFd and is now pressuring you marry her before your ready, even though she doesn’t really have to abide by those rules says a lot. She is already pushing you to conform to their rules first it’s this and then something else. I’d stand your ground on how you feel about marriage and leave it to her to figure out or choose what she wants. What you want and how you feel is just as important and right bow doesn’t sound like your ready and she’s pushing for it and ignoring how you feel for her religion because she’s trying to get back in her religion.
That religion is like a ticking time bomb. Deep down, she believes that her current lifestyle, including having an intimate relationship with a "worldly" person is *wrong*, but what she believes is right is too difficult for her, so she's struck a balance she can be relatively comfortable with for now. When that changes it's likely to get rather uncomfortable for you.
It rarely ends well. I know a JW woman who was also disfellowshipped, met a guy while she was 'out', married him, and then came back. He is Catholic. She describes him as unreasonable if he or his kids do not fall into line with everything she says about the bible and JW beliefs. Even when I was a believer, I did not get that logic. Being married to someone like that must be a special kind of hell/like walking through a minefield at the worst or walking on eggshells at the best.
Hey man, what I recommend is sitting down with her and showing her the policies regarding marriage for JWs. Everything you need is posted on their library. If she gets reinstated, she instantly has to treat you as a threat to her spirituality. She would then be coerced by the elders into converting you or separating. Worst part is, she won't agree to sign divorce papers if things don't work out, because JWs only allow divorce on the grounds of Adultary. Then you would have to take your ex wife to court to get divorced.
There's a lot to consider here, be wise, best of luck!
Some women/sisters prefer to stay active in the religion, and keep a worldly husband in the stable, their excuse not to associate (both ways) when they dont want, and theyre given special consideration in the congregation...kinda like theyre husbands beat them bc theyre worldly dudes, and everyone kinda feels sorry for them. Just my experience, lots of friends had worldly dads..you will not be her priority, ever.
Divorce is not automatically a disfellowshipping offense, only if you get divorced with out scriptural grounds (cheating) and remarry. Since her husband cheated and she has not remarried, she normally would NOT be disfellowshipped for that. It could be the elders were just being cruel (it happens), it also could be she is not telling you the whole story.
I would be less concerned with them trying to convert you and more concerned with how much the Watchtower will be part of your marriage. They can and do tell people what sex practices are allowed in the marriage. They will monopolize her time with endless requirements of meetings, field service and study. They do have to report how many hours are spent in the ministry ( letter writing for now due to Covid).
And if you two have children she will be wanting to raise them as JWs, which means all the same meetings, field service and study plus no team sports, extracurricular activities, holidays, birthdays or Friends outside the organization. College is discouraged, hobbies are discouraged. If your children get baptized at a young age, as many are encouraged to do, they will be disfellowshipped if they then choose to leave and live a normal life, or just have sex. And then what if they are gay? They will be treated as a pariah unless they deny their very nature. She may even feel obligated to work on your kids. Whatever you do, don’t let them read the JW "children’s“ videos or books. Look up "sparlock“ , you will think it’s a parody of religious indoctrination, not actual religious indoctrination.
Edited to add link to Sparlock, the warrior wizard, where a you boy is guilted into throwing away a toy because pretend magic "makes Jehovah Sad“ [Sparlock, the Warrior Wizard](https://vimeo.com/43714992). Also, who knew, Zazzle has Sparlock merchandise
But it’s your life, only you can decide if it’s worth it for you. I actually later married the guy I wouldn’t date in high school because he wasn’t a JW (after 28 years! ) It worked out for us because I was ready to leave the organization.
Getting in a relationship with her will be the worst thing you will ever do. Run as far away as you can. You and your children deserve so much more. You don’t need the restrictions and interference that her being JW will entail. You don’t need to add a burden in your life. I know you love her but again, you and your children deserve more. It will hurt but you will find someone who will give both you and your children the world. Your life will be ruined.
My situation was different than yours because of legal issues but I want to share it still. Me being JW ruined a relationship for me. I had no intention of converting him. I was never one to shove my beliefs anyways. We both tried so hard to make it work but the interference from the elders and my guardian just made it impossible. I ended things because he deserved so much better than me. He deserved more. I couldn’t give him what he needed. It hurt so bad because I loved him so much. All I wanted to do was love him but I had to let him go.
I’m PIMO for now because I’m on the waiting list for an apartment and also trying to terminate my guardianship. As soon as I can move out and ex communicate, if he‘s still on the market…I hope to rekindle things with him. I’ll be able to truly give him all of me. I can really make him happy.
If you’re human at all, you’ll dump her ass and run like hell. Now. ASAP. Cold Turkey.
And by “human,” I mean if you give a damn **at all** about your kids. If you give a damn, you’ll dump and run within the hour.
I asked for advice, so I welcome all sides of the argument. I do love this girl, but I have doubts that we can truly be happy because of her religion. It takes over lives…and she states that I won’t be pressured. I just don’t know if it’s so black and white. As far as my kids, they are Catholic and celebrate everything. That’s already set and she doesn’t ever talk religion with them.
“Won’t be pressured” is a lie. She must actively attempt to recruit you and your kids. She may not define her tactics as “pressure,” but that’s exactly what they’ll be.
Listen to me very carefully: ***you do not want this woman making medical decisions on behalf of you or your kids and marriage will give her legal power to do that. She will let you and them bleed to death if it’s her call.***
“I just don’t know if it’s so black and white”
Good observation. Most comments on here are harshly “black or white”. People are telling you to RUN… I have finally read down to the last comment haha-
Here is the truth- in the JW cult everything and everyone is either “black” BAD or “white” GOOD however at the meetings which by the way take up one evening during the week and half day Sunday - black and white is constantly the topic but twisted- for example a child gets raped by an elder in the congregation- it bad right? No there isn’t 2 witnesses to the “sin” not crime JW call is “sin” right along with lying etc. let’s say a 2nd child is raped will the 1st child be told about the 2nd child victim? NO it’s kept confidential and the elder continues-
Now let’s say there’s a 3rd child raped still the other 2 victims will not be told nor their families- and all victims are instructed to NOT say anything and it would bring reproach on Jehovah if their parents report it to the police- so here we are
1 pedophile 3 victims and a group of men along with the world headquarters where the governing body is know about it- in fact the headquarters has a data base of these pedophiles-
My mom was a baby when her parents converted and she married my dad her high school sweetheart who was a non JW at the time. I was born and 2 years later my dad became a baptized witness. I had nightmares from the teachings of the cult and my mother was a narcissist. See the constant indoctrination has you always judging yourself and feeling like your never doing enough for Jehovah aka the organization while at the same time blaming “worldly” people, the “world”, “bad associations”, our own “sinful tendencies” for our “perceived” failings and heavy guilt for failing God. In turn you become a narcissist blaming others and treating them accordingly. My mother would attend conventions and on the ride home be crying and want to commit suicide because she couldn’t “pioneer” knock on doors 90 hours a month because my dad wanted her to do a part time job so he’s fleshly and she’s spiritual.
Now did anything I say above make sense? No? Well that’s why people are saying run if she doesn’t mentally wake up!
My mom and dad were all over the place emotionally and I haven’t even scratched the surface - living with your JW girlfriend will be different - you know what the old saying is: you don’t really know someone until you live with them!!!!
>As far as my kids, they are Catholic and celebrate everything. That’s already set and she doesn’t ever talk religion with them.
She will. She will say that she won't, but eventually she will "lead by example", slip in the JW bedtime stories, JW music, JW house rules, etc. There is no getting around this one. If you marry her, she *will* attempt to convert you and your children, however bluntly or covertly. Otherwise, your marriage is literally against her religion.
True. If you marry her she will never give up trying to indoctrinate your kids into the cult. Protect your kids. Do NOT marry her.
That's a little harsh, OP has feelings too, and loves her.
The OP is a parent to his children first and foremost.
Someone’s gotta say it. Her cult and what it does to children is what’s “harsh.”
That doesn't discard that he loves his GF
Irrelevant. Kids come first. Always. If he loves her, then delay the relationship until the kids are no longer dependent.
It is unfair to the kids to know the stakes involved of a “divided household” with a believing JW in advance and making the decision to pursue anyway.
The amount of tension, division, pressure, guilt and risk to physical and mental health that these kids would be exposed to is indefensible
For still-believing JWs, like u/NoBS3434 girlfriend:
>JW gf is wanting to get married. Stating we can’t live together unless we are married.....She is baptized....and how her religion is going to be forced upon me. She stated that won’t happen, and no one is going to try and convert me....She did say that she would come to thanksgiving and Xmas **but will not open presents or participate in the “worldly” things**.
Any love she might feel for him will be overridden by the Watchtower Society's edicts and indoctrination. Gauging by THOSE comments of hers, made while the two of them are ALONE and no other JWs are physically present to put pressures upon her, she is still thoroughly indoctrinated. She's mentally enslaved, and doesn't sound like she'd be willing to consider the possibility that the Watchtower Society is false, a long-running scam, etc.
I wouldn't offer advice but since you asked...
If a spouse cheats they get disfellowshipped, but not the innocent spouse. There may be more questions to ask there.
If she is still describing things as "worldly" you may well ask if she views you as "worldly", and ask how that opinion will change if you get married. If she can wake up to the cult nature of the org now, it's a win. If she goes back, it's going to be a continual challenge in your marriage - since the most important thing to any JW is obeying instructions from the organization at the expense of other relationships. Proceed with caution, but it sounds like you two need some really deep conversations about her plans to either leave or re-join the org and how that will affect you and your kids.
Teach her critical thinking. Use questions.
Ask her to HELP you. They are trained to "help" people with spiritual needs. They cant resist
Use questions not statements.
Took me a year to wake my wife... but she's alert now.
Follow lloyd evans on youtube (SECRETLY- ANYTHING APOSTATE is viewed a toxic and contagious and will have the opposite affect). His video "what if jw are right?" Is a good start.
Jwfacts.com is excellent.
DO NOT COMMIT UNTIL (IF EVER) SHE IS AWAKE. Until then, She will ALWAYS choose them over you.
Ask lots of critical thinking... not negative! Questions.
TLDR: Love them, don't marry them. Protect your children and your sanity.
I know someone personally who is/was PIMI, married twice. Both times the other person was not a JW. 1st mate was abusive, hated JWs (pretty much all organized religion), and eventually they separated and they were able to obtain a divorce (without being df'd) because the 'unbelieving mate' cheated.
The 2nd marriage, went basically how some other posters have already postulated.
The other person belonged to another church. Then the JWs from the hall started love-bombing them. Even though the person told me personally that the JW mate was an awful mate because all their time had to do with being a JW and they were never a marriage mate for real. They didn't feel loved, and also the sex was awful. Eventually, the unbeliever started a Bible study, resigned from their church, and got baptized.
All of it was for nothing. They are now separated and probably going to divorce. The mate who eventually got baptized never changed their "wordly" behavior or anything, they just got the label of being baptized. That meant he got an instant social circle. Until they found out about their arrest record, then it all disappeared and the witness mate basically bounced and disappeared thousands of miles away out of shame for their reputation.
I married a non-practicing baptized JW. A few months after taking our marriage vows, she was reinstated. And now is a full blown PIMI.
If your girl is still abstaining from normal human behaviour... Beware! The egregore still has its teeth in her. If you get married then she will be considered "in good standing". She should not have been disfellowshipped for her husband cheating. So that's raises questions. If you remain unmarried, then she will not return to the "truth". She will remain ostracized. If I could get a do over I would have remained girlfriend boyfriend or commonlaw until she was ostracized long enough to question things. Or I would have got a prenuptial agreement that if she would "return to Jehovah's Organization" it would be grounds for divorce. Now I live in a constant state of conflict and disappointment. If you think she acts weird now.... Wait until she is full blown active member again. She is already married to the ORG. I would just keep it casual until she leaves or wakes up. You can help her wake up by asking questions. You definitely need to unpack the delusional mental baggage she is carrying and take a real good look at it before you make any decisions. Not living with her keeps you from seeing the full picture on her mental health. Enjoy this time with her. She is on "Rumspringa"! So just have fun and don't get too attached.
Okay, so the main thing is making sure no jw stuff goes near your kids. I'd also have a conversation with your ex wife about this and make sure that if you fail to keep jw literature away from them she will make sure. (I know you say you won't convert but some jws are really good at love bombing, so it's good to have a backup)
While showing your gf the faults could be a good direction make sure to take things slow. The main thing, would be to show her that worldly things are not as bad as the org says it is
Good that you asked us, probably knowing we wouldn't be a fan of the idea. JW are conditioned to put their JW activities before anything else. As soon as she goes back to the fold you will be second in her priorities. Can you be happy knowing that? More importantly your kids are not safe anywhere near JW. I was raised by loving JW parents but still I hate the childhood I had because of the cult. She said she won't try to convert, but as long as she's mentally in you cannot trust she won't go back on that. I would try to wake her up. I hope you manage it, but please for the sake of your children do not give them a JW (step) parent.
You got to let it go.
She is still mentally in the JW religion-
You will be so much happier if she can mentally be out! Oh and if you both are having sex and not married then she isn’t following the strict rules of the religion. Which indicates to me she is more about appearances or how it will look to JW friends/family if you live together and is prioritizing them and the religion over you.
If she can give conditions about Christmas then you can give her some conditions.
Tell her you want to read Crisis of conscience by Raymond Franz together-
Then you will marry her. Remember if that doesn’t wake her up we can give some YouTube videos you can say you want to watch together - keep adding conditions until she is mentally out -
This is just a suggestion-
Was she born into the religion? Meaning was she a child when her parents became JW?
>Tell her you want to read Crisis of conscience by Raymond Franz together-
**AND** watch ALL of the Australian Royal Commission's inquiry into the Watchtower Society/Jehovah's Witnesses mishandling of their Child Sexual Abuse cases. It's on YouTube, but since my computer is dying I can't get onto YouTube to pull up the two channels that have the entire Case #29 hearing videos on them. \[hah. My computer decided to cooperate - for now....\]
u/NoBS3434 can also see more information here:
Opening Poster should also check out this channel for more info about the JWs:
**AND** look further into the JW/Watchtower Society's horrific "Two Witness Rule" when it comes to their child sexual abuse policies.
This YouTube channel appears to have the full listing of videos of the Australian Royal Commission's inquiry into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse, Case #29 Jehovah's Witnesses aka Watchtower Bible and Tract Society:
This is a video of one of the JWs "spiritual" leaders, making claims about how the Watchtower Society has handled the cases of child sexual abuse within their ranks:
One of the leaders' "helpers" stating that Watchtower Society will never give up their "scriptural stance" on that biblical "two eyewitnesses to the crime - er, "sin" rule: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCHomH1ChEU&t=322s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCHomH1ChEU&t=322s)
**AND** about the JW/Watchtower Society anti-blood transfusion policy:
I hope this helps you make a choice that will protect your children and your long-term happiness.
Run like the wind.
🏃♂️ r u n
Run. Don’t walk. Fast and far
Look up narcissism, love bombing, devaluation …
I fell for a covert narcissistic JW elderette.
For about a year or so it was nice. Then hell descended on me, week long silent treatments, alienation of friends, family and acquaintances. Nothing I did was right. All my strengths were marginalized. The lying by omission, gaslighting and bigotry were incredible.
Yet she had this pious sweet demeanor to her fellow congregants. Nothing like the possessed demon I lived with once she was inside my home. Read up on theological warfare, you are fair game.
The reason I share this with you is that cult is a breeding ground for narcissism, pure and simple. She is desperate for a mate as females greatly outnumber males. Educate yourself, test her innocuously. The mask will slip at some point. I wish you the very best.
Don’t leave her alone with your kids. She will fill their heads with stories that will scare them into thinking they must believe in Jehovah or die. Definitely don’t get married. It’s a trap. Once you commit, you’ll see a totally different side of her personality. Run.
I only read the first sentence
A lifetime of one person politely watching you while you do things they don’t approve of doesn’t sound very fulfilling.
She must be planning on going back if all this is coming up.
It is something you two should discuss together because you'll have to be open and honest.
I was disfellowshipped at 16, lost my parents, siblings, everyone I was ever allowed to have contact with.
Traumatic and child abuse.
I never had any intention of going back but years later the witnesses found me, came to my house and told me I need to return to Jehovah and leave my husband because we are unevenly yoked.
I was willingly out of the organization at that point and the still tried to break us apart.
Its going to be a really hard thing for both of you if she goes back to the organization and you decide to stay together.
Best wishes to you both
Speaking as someone who was raised by a JW mother and "worldly" father - sooner or later she will attempt to convert you. Even if *she* doesn't intend to try to convert you, other JWs will pressure her. She'll also try to indoctrinate your children because as far as she's concerned, she'd be "saving their lives" come Armageddon.
She may be making the right noises now and she may even be sincere now, but she could be emotionally blackmailed back into the cult, and once that happens, your kids are at risk, and she will actively try to convert you. There's also something to be said about "theocratic warfare" and the view that lying is fine as long as it's to worldly people.
Unless she's dedicated to breaking the programming once and for all, unless she comes to realize that she was indoctrinated into a cult and is willing to work on moving away from the prison it put her in, I wouldn't consider marriage. Not yet. And if you're not ready, you're not ready. You have good reasons to hesitate.
The story goes that the moment my mother had me and my sister, it all fell apart between her and my father.
Despite everything she said before, despite supposedly not being in the religion anymore, her deep fear of the end times and need for salvation seemed to kick in to high gear. Then there came to be the kidnapping of my sister by my grandparents, the rapid divorce, and being forced to move to a small town hours away.
I will personally never ever trust anyone who has a story like this. I just could never do that to my own future kids, it'd break me in half.
EDIT: If you have a sense she's sitting on the fence somehow then you have every right to be cautious, JWs will attempt to overtake every aspect of your social life they can and then pull on that to make you submit. Unless she truly, deeply renounces it then it's just playing with fire.
From the perspective of a woman who married an inactive JW and gave the same disclosure that I wasn’t interested in the religion.
Fast forward 10 years, my husband decided to go back to the religion and announced that he would no longer be doing holidays or birthdays which were major in our blended family.
Before that time, many of his family members tried to recruit me into the religion.
As for the marriage, there were many other things happening that I didn’t understand until I started to learn about the religion. The religion, in my opinion, rears misogynistic men, so he would not participate in keeping house because that’s “women’s work.” We were raising daughters, so that was not well received. There was no spiritual investment in the family or the relationship. He was not open to questions about the doctrine of the religion and felt I didn’t have the right to question him. I could go on and on…
After about 10 months of him being active, I just couldn’t take it any more. I decided to separate myself for my emotional, spiritual, and financial health.
My advise: RUN!!! Don’t subject your innocent children to that religion on any level! It is dangerous and unhealthy on so many levels.
My child was older when we married and a Christian so it didn’t have the impact that it could have had.
I was able to talk with his children and answer questions about certain things that they couldn’t talk to him about…. Placing your girlfriend in the position of wife and stepmom is a powerful and influential position in their lives, so be very careful!
I would say RUN!
Man what a tough situation. But as pointed out you are wise to give some serious consideration.
I left (faded, not disfellowshipped) in my 20s and now in my late 30s I still struggle with all the emotional baggage, and I see how my family is completely torn because of the organisation.
Her describing opening presents as 'worldly', and refusing to do that gives you an idea of how it works. And possibly of what is to come. She might feel ok to do certain things, but think about how something like opening a present can be an issue? What if it's something much more important?
Since you already have 2 kids, I dont know if you are planning on more. But if she wont open a present, where will she stand if one of your kids need a blood transfusion and you are not there in the moment?
Will she want to take your kids to meetings and teach them the doctrines of jw?
The org is centred around "saving people" (gaining members). Witnessing is in the name. I highly doubt she wont try if even so subtle, and if you encounter other JW they will try with both you and your kids.
As others has mentioned her story dosent seem to make sense. I assume you guys are having sex when you have been dating for 2 years, so it's very odd that its worldly and wrong to open presents, but she would be happy to have sex outside of marriage. Now all of a sudden you have to get married? That's conditional love and blackmail. If she still believes (which it sounds like she does) perhaps her guilty conscience had caught up with her and she is trying to "make it right", but that is no excuse. Dont ever feel pressured to do something you don't want to. Especially not something like marriage.
When I was a baptised witness I tried to convert a person who I was in love with, and whom loved me. I was certain that if this person would only give it a chance they would finally see "the truth" and we could be together. It is one of my biggest regrets in life and I still feel ashamed of how I could try and lure somebody into a cult by keeping my love for them conditional. For a long time I would go back and forth, we would have sex and I would feel guilty and then try to get back to meetings and do things 'properly'. Needless to say it didn't end well. Fortunately I found my way out, but my background growing up as JW is a shadow even today in my relationships.
Best of luck to you!
If she is a JW she will make your life miserable, they are so weird, and are a dangerous and controlling cult. Run as fast as you can
One big problem is that she is dating a worldly guy. You. If she is having sex with you that is another really big problem. If she is not having sex with you but is even alone with you for a moment that is still a big problem.
She is not allowed to marry you under any circumstances as you are an unbeliever.
If she stills believes the JW's are the one true religion then she is going to be very guilty about her behavior.
If she believes that you and your children's eternal life is dependant on what she does, then she is capable of anything. Be scared, very scared.
Maybe you can with [jwfacts.org](https://jwfacts.org) get her out completely but it is very hard.
The fact that she won't open presents or participate in "worldly things" is a big red flag. That means she still very much believes the cult teachings and she's scared her god is watching her every move and judging her. She wants to get married because she believes she is "sinning" if she's having sex as an unmarried woman. Guilt from the religion weighs heavily on her. She needs to get some therapy so she can live in the real world.
If you get married, she will likely slide back into the religion and she'll want to convert you to JW. What misery.
You both deserve to be happy u/NoBS3434 not live under compulsion to obey arbitrary rules made up by 8 really strange men in New York on a power trip.
You get to decide your future. what she is offering you is downright scary as it stands. You will forever be dictated to by her cult if you marry her. Again, please encourage her to get therapy. You can never be happy with her if she still carries those horrid cult beliefs. It'll be worse than a prison sentence.
Remember, you both deserve happiness. Some therapy would help both of you work this out.
It sounds to me like she wants the best of both worlds, and it’s already been mentioned but if she has anything to do with JWs, you and your kids lives will gradually become more stressful in regards to the pressure associated with this organization. It plays on any opportunity to Indoctrinate individuals who are married to someone in it and what’s worse is younger people (or children) are more susceptible to it. So I would definitely keep my guard up because it sounds like she’s still mentally in despite being disfellowshipped…honestly it’s so difficult having it work out both ways so whatever you decide to do, keep your kids close and don’t do anything that makes you uneasy because regret will surely follow. Best of luck to you!
Sorry, but you need to bail.
Unless you are planning on becoming a JW do not go any further. She is not being honest with you because the pressure will be on to convert you. Your family will be divided on almost everything. Your kids will not have a normal childhood because there will always be tension around holidays and birthdays which leads to loads of mental issues later in life. On top of all that she will try to convert your kids into becoming JW's. What you have read about here is just the tip of a huge iceberg you won't know hit you until it has. JW's one single mission is to get you to believe, worship and act just like them. It is a CULT so brainwashing is their specialty. If you are ok with all that, jump on in.
Give her an ultimatum. Tell her she has to examine the other side. There's valuable info and good videos on YouTube showing why Jehovahs Witnesses aren't true.
This is a very good point thank you. I honestly think I’ve been gassing myself because I love her so much. I’m being emotional, not rational. All signs point to “EXIT” but I’m lingering. I just gotta rip the band aid off. Thank you all for the posts and advice. I appreciate it very much and am happy I downloaded Reddit lol. Honestly I see many views I didn’t see before, and it was eye opening. I honestly do not think she would try and convert my kids..they have very strong personalities and also love their bdays and Xmas and thanksgiving! But I will have a good long talk with her and explain my side and see how she takes it. I know mentioning the words “cult” or brainwashed won’t go over well, but the truth hurts no?
Give her a choice. Disavow the religion or it’s off. Having sex but not celebrating Christmas is exactly what we would call a jack-Mormon. They believe but not enough to actually live it.
>I honestly do not think she would try and convert my kids..
Oh, she most certainly WOULD try to indoctrinate/convert your kids, especially if they're under the age of 18.
If she can convert your kids into being JWs, that will be like a feather in her cap and an accomplishment she can bring to the JW elders (men in charge of the congregation) to make it easier for her to be reinstated (get out of the penalty box of "disfellowshipment").
By the way, the person you're dating right now probably isn't the real person. You're likely seeing a lot of the inviting "cult persona", as JWs are taught to put on a happy, smiling face that makes it look as if they have the "Best Life EVER!" in order to lure in more converts.
JWs tend to use that proselytizing persona on non-JW romantic partners too, perhaps primarily as a reflex action. Either way, there's a strong possibility that the person you'd end up with after 6 months of marriage isn't at all the person you've currently fallen in love with.
You may also find my comment here and the links in my comment to be informative: [https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/p2uehq/comment/h8o2bgy/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/p2uehq/comment/h8o2bgy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I think this comment duplicates most of those links, but you might find something interesting here, too: [https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/oo5js5/comment/h5wg8ks/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/oo5js5/comment/h5wg8ks/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Something else you need to be aware of regarding the severe imbalance of genders in the JW movement: [https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/l7toot/comment/gl9o5mw/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/l7toot/comment/gl9o5mw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
This Tiktok might help start a conversation. https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/osbq5i/a_mormon_a_jw_and_adventist_and_a_scientologist/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Tell her it's worth the investigation. You will either build your faith more cuz you found out the critical information makes no sense or she will find out it does make sense and she will know she had been lied to.
Brainwashing the kids is alot of sutlej ways.
One dad months ago was in tears. His outgoing son was coaxed away. The jw cult is VERY CLEVER. His son was like your children. A child strength against a clever cult. Years of sutleness. Dont kid yourself.
You don't have to use those words if you think it will cause her to mentally shut down in the conversation. A lot of people here refer to cults as high-control groups, because that is another name for them. JWs, Scientology, Mormonism, all cults. All high-control groups.
Instead of saying brainwashed, which can just sound like a thoughtless insult to a believing cult member, explain that the talks and articles make you doubt yourself. They tell people not to think for themselves. Things like these are red flags in a religious organization. I don't know if anyone linked the BITE model in this discussion but you might find that helpful:
I think it really shows how Watchtower/JWs are not special. Many organizations use these methods to control their members and keep them helpless and trapped in the organization.
https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/helping-someone-leave.php (scroll to techniques)
>The Socratic method (also known as method of Elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate) is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presuppositions. It is named after the Classical Greek philosopher Socrates and is introduced by him in Plato's Theaetetus as midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding.
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J-Dub-a-ya woman, stay away from me
J-Dub-a-ya woman, mama, let me be
Don't come a-hangin' 'round my door
I don't wanna see your Bible no more
I got more important things to do
Than spend my time in service with you
Now woman, I said stay away
J-Dub-a-ya woman, listen what I say
Don't come a-knockin' around my door
Don't wanna see Watchtower no more
Love-bombin' "friends" can hypnotize
Knock on doors with other guys
Now woman, I said get away
J-Dub-a-ya woman, listen what I say, hey
(With thanks to The Guess Who's "American Woman")
Or fast forward a few years and he's singing "All this fussing and fighting man, you know I sure can't stay"
Name That Tune!
> All this fussing and fighting man, you know I sure can't stay
Going Up The Country, by Canned Heat
Bingo! The official song of the VW Microbus.
You really missed your vocation in life, didn't you?
I am looking forward to living forever in parodies...
They promised that, right? Right???
...Good luck with that.... 😈😈😈😈😈😈
Lol… I had Alexa play American woman and sang your lyrics- it is so good!!! Loved it!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🍺👍
I'm so glad you enjoyed it so much!!
Damn... That deserves an award.
\[coy smirk\] What makes you think that award came from me???
...Spend those coins wisely.
I'll make you proud of my "investment" in other people's upbuilding.
See if she will be willing to study jwfacts.com with you....
I briefly tell my story ... a jw pimo. I disfellowshipped we celebrated sex birthday while waiting for marriage. his jw family didn't know. a double life. i was starting to converse about what god and i jw were like. quarrels that lasted days. offended her because she said she had been jw and they are not all alike. I said I meant my opinion. no way.
offense for days. she defended a god who doesn't care about man to me.
I couldn't say anything about the violence of the Old Testament. her life with her was beautiful only sexually and if you weren't talking about religion.
then I had to suffer from her family ... thanks to jehovah this and that. if you don't do this you sin etc.
think about it if it is right to continue ... life together is mutual respect
I'd say whatever you chose to do stand firm in it. If you do decide to marry and you strongly want no affiliation with the dubs let that be known from the jump. If she asks why give her your reasons. If you guys have kids let her know why your kids cannot attend meetings. Her family's in? Let them know in order to have a relationship with your children they cannot attempt to indoctrinate them and if they do its a wrap. Create boundaries and stick to them. I've seen this scenario play out many times. What I haven't seen is the marriage ending in divorce. If you ask me the sisters who had husbands who weren't witnesses seemed happier than the sisters whose husband was in. I always chalked it up to the sister with the "worldly" husband having more freedom.
>I always chalked it up to the sister with the "worldly" husband having more freedom.
On a related note, non-JW husbands usually aren't terribly misogynistic, and often are more financially stable than JW males.
Run away! Or draw a line in the sand and tell her you will marry but she can not go back. If you get married and 5 years from now she goes back then it will be a slippery slope. She will start to pressure you to just go to a meeting or two. Just read the publications or watch this short video. It is not worth the stress and guilt she will put on you down the road unless she wakes up.
>or watch this short video
If she’s still using the word “worldly” while doing what a JW would do (as in skip holidays) then I’d be skeptical that she’d want to go back and beg you to go too since you’re married now. If you do decide to go that route.
I used to work with some guys that always wanted to marry a Jehovah’s Witness woman because the woman is required to be submissive to the man and so she’s not allowed to leave you no matter what you do unless you cheat on her. And she hast to be obedient to you so you can tell her do whatever you want and she’s supposed to do it. I mean of course now I think that’s totally messed up and wrong but that is the doctrine that she believes in.
>I used to work with some guys that always wanted to marry a Jehovah’s Witness woman because the woman is required to be submissive to the man
Those poor fools have no idea what they could have been letting themselves in for.
After decades of watching JW women using passive-aggressive manipulation to circumvent the "headship" principles WT espouses, AND seeing some similar methods used among a few Middle Eastern women I had the opportunity to observe, it appears to me that when women are rendered powerless in direct ways they will exert great effort to maintain control over the other family members via indirect, subtle and even sly methods.
The levels of fear that such systems could - note, I said COULD - generate in women under near-absolute male control (as far as the males believe) would drive many a woman to finding ways to gain some control over their own lives.
As usual, you nailed it with a ten pound sledgehammer! 👍
Thanks! Thanks for your comment, which nicely brought out the foolishness of your co-workers' ignorance.
They were some toothless hillbillies and one of their cousins married a witness who was quite the knockout and she stayed with him even though he beat the shit out of her all the time. It was really sad. Fuck those guys honestly, all of them. I don’t know why some of the most beautiful women stay with guys that beat them. I just never understood that. I didn’t know it was a requirement for witnesses until recently but it still doesn’t make sense.
Beautiful women often work so hard at being beautiful because they came from unloving and even abusive families. Personally I blossomed into a looker AFTER I'd been hit, kicked and slapped into the JWs while my btch mother had been scapegoating me and taking out her hatred of her half sister on me because her father (the child rapist) had preferred the half sister over Mommie Dearest.
My efforts to be beautiful were part of my desperate attempts to be loved, but naturally with that kind of childhood I only attracted more abusers.
You should be concerned because her religion will come first and she will try to recruit you. It is not likely to end well.
Ask her if she is willing to look at www.jwfacts.com - take a look yourself!
Know what you are dealing with by doing your research on the JW cult - it will open your eyes.
Tread carefully and do not get lulled into complacency.
Dear all asking. I am never jw. My sister is the only one jw. She is definitely jw brain damaged. Cognitive dissonance is beyond. SHE actually left for three years after her divorce (im now thinking she may have been disfellowshipped?) BUT she was fun, enjoying life, met a lovely chap said he would not be drawn in blah blah. He gradually was then it dawned on him and heart broken left.
She suddenly decided to go back (must have been reinstated?) AND CHANGED OVER NIGHT TO THE JW HARDCORE/ZOMBIE state.
I feel for you. YOUR children will have a rough time over the years. Please do not have a precious baby. Jws fight hard to gain custody if you split. They will fight hard.
Personally I have been married 41 years. My husband and I never cheated BUT I would rather my husband cheated than ever tell me he was thinking of being a jw. Thats how bad news it is.
My sister shuns her 3 adult exjw children.
And to go to Christmas but not really join in she is already putting you and your children in a mental gymnastics position this will be with many things. Disaprovel from the side lines, in your face.
NEVER MARRY UNLESS YOU FEEL THAT UTTER JOY OF WANTING MARRIAGE.
All the best to you all
Gf: I won’t cheat on you
Also gf: I can’t do holidays or birthdays
Gf: those things are forbidden, living together and sex is also forbidden
Gf: I don’t mind you are worldly but nice
Gf(to herself): I’ll change him and save him and his kids to
Eventually: she is going to makes that move or exit
If you open that mind for inspection, ticking time bombs 💣
Basically getting married she can then get reinstated. This is a jw rule. So your are already being run by the elders, but you don't know it.
My pimi sister cares for her grandson and says she does zero jw but he tells us. Jws are very sly. Wolves in sheeps clothing. I feel for it for years.
Just by your posts im feeling sorry for you both ( other unsure weather to stay).
>Basically **getting married she can then get reinstated**. This is a jw rule. **So you are already being run by the elders, but you don't know it**.
This! **This this this this this!!!**
I know it’s probably not what you want to hear, but run for the hills. Things will only get worse trying to date a JW.
>I’m worried what the future holds and how her religion is going to beforced upon me. **She stated that won’t happen, and no one is going to tryand convert me.**
Unfortunately she\`s lying to you.
The "ONLY" Mission in Life for a JW. Is to try to convert "ANYBODY" they come across.
Some how magically, they\`re going to skip you? Everyone of them?...LOL!!!
Not a Chance!.................😁
There are already lots of comments, I just want to second the comment referencing her excommunication. She would not get excommunicated for getting divorced, *especially* if the divorce was because her husband cheated. In JW, adultery is like, the only mostly judgement-free divorce (for the non cheating party.) And it's also the only way a divorced JW will be allowed to marry again. Since her husband committed adultery, she is free to remarry. And the innocent person in the situation is often looked at with a lot of sympathy.
RUN!!!! I'm not even joking either. Your life will be a living hell if you stick with this woman. **You WILL regret it, I promise you.** Whether you're "older and more mature" is irrelevant. JWs are always good at doing the bait and switch. I've seen this before.
Look there's millions of women out there not part of some horrible cult that will fuck up your life and those of your children. I don't think she's being honest about her "excommunication" either.
RUN. There's nothing to think about. Just be thankful you got away for you and your children's sakes.
If you marry, she said she would go to Xmas parties and thanksgiving but not open presents. Problem is that the elders will convince her to do otherwise. Gaurenteed. She excommunicated but is she going to services trying to be reinstated? If so, she wants in and when she does, everything changes.
Marriages have to be evenly yoked but with a JW you will carry the yoke bu yourself, accommodating her wishes.
"but is she going to services trying to be reinstated?"
Damn, I wish I'd thought of this question!! If she's already attending the occasional meeting (or more), attempting to get reinstated, that would make it clear that she's definitely going back to being a full-on Jehovah's Witness.
JW issues aside, marrying only to allow each other to live together is not a reason to wed. You say you’re scared to commit so soon. That’s a sign you need to at attention to. You are not older as you say. You’re in late 30s. I remarried at 47.
Your kids are young. Their mom is still in the picture. Divorce is rough on kids. Stepmoms can help - or hurt - the process.
Follow your instincts. If you decide to stay with her, don’t marry yet. Let it play out.
As for JW issues, if you marry, will she allow Xmas trees in the house? Stay home as you go to family celebrations? Watch your kids trick or treat? Watch R rated films with you? It’s a lot to take in.
Whatever you do, don’t marry cuz you caved to her wishes. Marry because you love her and are absolutely sure of what you want. She needs to know theres two of you. And sex is no reason to marry
Leave her. For your children’s sake if not yours.
I was POMI (Physically Out Mentally In), when I started dating my current fiance.I said many of the the things your current GF is saying.He stuck with me, but refused to get married/engaged. He very, very slowly started to share tidbits with me like, "I just saw there is a new documentary about JW's" but not tell me what it was so I had to go research myself.And I started seeing/reading things for myself.Then, he brought me around his family A LOT, I saw how cool, fun, accepting, truly loving they were and began to realize the differences on my own.I could not get reinstated as a JW because I wouldn't break it off w/him and he wouldn't marry me and I loved him too much to walk away.It took me years to wake up and realize I'd been in a cult, but I did.I am now, not only fully awake but a Ex-JW activist/YouTuber, writing a book about my life/abuses as a JW.My longtime boyfriend recently proposed so we are getting married. He had a lot of patience, but he had faith that I would figure it all out on my own.
On the flip side, my sister got married when she was disfellowshipped, to her "worldly" boyfriend, promised him all that your GF currently is, they married and she immediately went back (she didn't have time to wake up) and now they're horribly unhappy because he won't convert.
My best advice is to love her but stick to your guns and don't marry her. Share tiny little bits of info you've read/researched about JW's but she has to wake up on her own. If she does, that's great but if she doesn't, your marriage may be really tough .Good luck with it all and kudo's to you for caring enough to research this!
I would worry more about your kids than about you, my elder Dad comments all over my Facebook pictures of my son saying I’m purposefully murdering him by not returning to the religion and tells everyone the same in person. That’s how your potential wife would feel too. And once your married, the pressure from the congregation would follow through her.. it’s a bad situation.
Do NOT give this woman any more access to your children. They deserve better, and you, as their father, should be the first, immoveable, line of defense. Listen to your instincts. Sure, she might be "amazing" now, but at what cost? (And frankly, it doesn't actually sound amazing at all to me. Unless maybe the sex is good???? Thinking with the wrong head?)
>I'm even more scared of her religion.
Bloody hell, man? What are you waiting for? If it weren't for the kids, I'd say it's your life to fuck up however you want. But those babies should *never* be the collateral damage of a cult.
I'm sorry you're in this situation. As someone who was raised in this cult, it takes years to become mentally free, even after physically leaving, especially if you're born in. The pressure of being shunned and mistreated are always looming too, especially for jws who are not fully out. If this is the case with your gf, then there's going to be heartache in the future.
If you do get married, there is a chance her parents or jw family will try love bombing, and convincing you they are caring despite the cult's strict conditions. They may try this whether they shun your gf or not, so this will become a steady source of aggravation. If they get close to your kids, they'll look for any chance to indoctrinate.
I was fully pomo when I married a never-jw, and we had three kids. I had to battle my jw family on not indoctrinating my kids, which resulted in full shunning. It's important to consider the risks you'll take from marrying someone who may still be heavily influenced by the cult. It's not an easy choice, but I wish you all the best
If you marry her your wife would be ethically bound (in her mind) to indoctrinate your children. This would involve teaching them that they will die at armageddon if they don't convert to being JW's.
She will teach them that you are a bad person for doing certain 'worldly' things. She will subtly disapprove of many things they do as well. I wouldn't even let a jw babysit my children much less make them a co parent.
Im sorry but her mind has been compromised. She has to choose between jehovah or her happiness. We all know how difficult it is to find happiness after our lives have been invaded by jehovah.
Wait what? You GF got disfellowshiped and now she is banging you? She thinks she can have sex with you and yet get reinstated if you get married? Not a very good witness, she needs to be in good standing before dating and of course no sex before marriage. Of course she is pressuring you to get married so she can more easily get back in
A few bits of advice. There is no advantage for a man to get married. Why sign a contract to give this woman half of your stuff if you break up. You can have a great relationship without getting your state involved and a contract
Your GF may say it but there is going to be peer pressure from the congregation for you to convert. No JW wants to go to meetings without their spouse
if he has accepted to do what for the radical jw is a sin, that is, dating a non-jw person is already a step of awareness. the problem that you will have to turn a blind eye to how she views some parties, blood etc.
but the jw with the fact of getting married in order not to sin are always too hasty to then live unhappy all their life. with jw you are not free to let life flow lightly. you have to suffer. like all sects.
I after the failed marriage no more women jw have psychological gaps.
important put the record straight. the most important advice is not to let the jw into the house with the excuse of friendship ..
My advise would be to sit down and show her what you have written and the replies you have received. There will be either two scenarios that will tell you were she stands on these things, and what lies ahead.
(1) These are apostates to have got an axe to grind. Or she just point blank refuses to read it.
(2)These are people who have been deeply hurt, and are genuinely concerned about the practices of this Christian sect.
Another thing, that I think you need to consider, about this caring mature relationship. A relationship should be built on openness and honesty. Why would you choose to come to a group of Random anonymous posters, rather than taking this up with you future wife first. Just food for thought.
You're in for a ride, that's all I'll say. A ride that will be hell. Sorry but if she's disfellowshipped and still brainwashed those are the worst types of JW's. They can't make up their mind which I understand but thats just the truth.
Run away bro.
Your ex is one seriously messed-up person.
If she'd freely chosen her present lifestyle upon reflection and a fully open exploration of her sexuality as she was a teen/young adult, I'd say more power to her, but this situation sounds like she's trying to fulfill all of the WT Society's negative insinuations about "worldly" people and their "sinful" sexual appetites.
**The fact that she's STILL trying to convert her other partners** (in sequence, through the relationships) **shows that she's still deeply indoctrinated** \- and deeply messed up - from her JW/WT upbringing.
Saw the title and knew my comment: RUN! 🏃♀️ 🏃♂️ 🏃♀️ 🏃♂️
Run fast and run far.
For you children safety leave her.
You can try and tell her it's a cult but she probably will not listen.
Congratulations on your love ❤️
She need help to “wake up” that what she thinks is the truth is not true .
buy her Crises of Concience by Raymond Franz and say you will marrry her if she read this book and research JW history .
because after doing so there is great chance that she will NEVER go back to JW!
try to do your own research forinstance by listening to Lloyd Evans on youtube .
Wish you all the best .
Once she is awake you will be free to enjoy a wonderful life together .
If she go back or even if she remain mentally thinking JW is the truth you are going to have a very complicated life unfortunately 🌸
IF she wants to wake up. She might be HAPPY as a "double-life" JW (the unexplained disfellowshipping despite her ex-husband's supposed adultery needs a thorough AND HONEST explanation) and she may be too mentally trapped to ever figure her way out of the WT Society muck.
For the sake of u/NoBS3434 and especially for the sake of his kids, he needs to quickly figure this out. Earlier I missed a significant aspect of the current situation, and that is that his children may be exposed to her (Watchtower Society's) restrictive beliefs, right now, just by her current attempts to entangle u/NoBS3434 in HER obedience to WT Society.
Even if she was df'd due to no fault of her own, she is still sliding back towards deeper involvement with the destructive sect that effected such a miscarriage of justice upon her, which shows she still FULLY accepts WT Society's abusive behaviors.
That's a BAD mentality to bring around impressionable children, to say the least.
Worse yet, if she's LYING about who was "at fault" in her divorce/disfellowshipping, or just not being fully truthful, this would indicate a tendency towards dishonesty that may plague the relationship for a long time. It could be that due to her being pushed into the typical JW "double-life" as a JW child, she had to lie in order to retain some scraps of her authentic personality. But without a full awakening on her part and working on removing/repairing the damages via therapy, she may be stuck in her mental dishonesty for the rest of her life.
As a JW I didnt want to wake up.
But i was lucky to find the facts that woke me up .
My husband was an elder when I realized over night that we have been lied to and its a cult 😰
I thought we might have to divorce … but I begged him just to do ONE thing for me… read Crisis of Conscience .
after that there were no way either he or I could stay JW.
Sometimes it takes only a little hint or information to snap out of it .
but non of us wanted or were looking for a”way out “.
But we were lucky to find out the truth about the truth !
Wow, you were so lucky that it didn't take much to wake him up! Congratulations on the much improved life the two of you have to look forward to.
it took even less to wake ME up;)) But a lot of study went on the following 10 months …. every day researching and making sure we were right 👍
Unfortunately, no matter what she might say, she is still at least semi-locked into the beliefs of the JW. Therefore, stating that no one would try to convert you, is highly unlikely. She would probably be the first to begin these attempts. Even if it only started with negativity about your beliefs and/or practices on holidays, this would still be her beginning to manipulate you. It is even possible that she would have no clue that she was doing this, due to her own indoctrination.
Do not do this to your kids
She Will likely get the kids involved and bring them to meetings stating "im letting them choose/ make an informed choice" it will also impact her nature of child rearing unless you have an agreement.
People who disagree on religion, money, child rearing, how to treat inlaws are more likely to get divorced.
Also think of the promises that your ex wife made.
Offer to have a non legaly standing wedding. Without the paper signing and the legal obligations that follow. You can be married in the traditional sense but without the legal backing. If she goes for that she should be flexable enough to be willing. However she may use it transactionally as "i did this for you why cant you do this for me"?
Hope this helps
I love it. Her congregation's elders would hit the roof over this, and it might force her to either glimpse the depth of her own indoctrination, or she might break with him in obedience to the elders.
I see alot of runnnnnnnn , nooooooo , leave , she’s mentally unstable etc so thought I’d give a bit of a different response cause well I’m an eternal optimist and a sucker for a love story … while this is a very dangerous cult and your instincts are spot on majority here used to be there in that place of believing and here they are so I’ll say if you’re at the point of considering marriage at the very least it’s worth a loving , deep , well researched conversation with her about the very things that you are not ok with if nothing changes and you still can’t move forward that’s fine but you never know what may spark her waking up process so it’s worth a shot especially for love . I never thought I’d wake up to this cult after being raised in it and yet it happened .
What were the incidents and realizations that helped wake you up?
The seed was planted when I watched Leah reminis Scientology series not the jw episode it was the actual episodes about Scientology I felt drawn to it and started feeling this familiarity but I was super indoctrinated so I dismissed it fast forward years later and I stumbled upon this interview with an ex Mormon couple on YouTube and again I felt this sense of wow all the tactics are the same I couldn’t ignore it and I went down the rabbit hole of unraveling my faith .
Sounds like she is still mentally in, but the fact that she is willing to stay for Christmas probably means she is progressing. Sadly this is a process that can take very long for some people. If she was disfellowshipped unfairly, then I would try to milk that.
Anyone who believes JW doctrine has issues: either they are indoctrinated or have mental issues. If you don’t want a needlessly complicated life, break things off with her.
Believing JWs are not normal people, and that’s “not normal” in a bad way.
OP, ask her about the two witness rule. As a father, are you comfortable with someone who believes a rape or molestation didn't happen unless there were two witnesses? Also, the two witnesses must be JWs, the word of a non-Witness is meaningless. How many rapes and molestations have two witnesses of the same religion?
If she is dating you then this is a violation of their beliefs and apparently she had no problem starting a relationship with you, so if she wants she could continue to be in a relationship with you. Do you think she is trying to trap you into getting married and using her religion as the premise why you should take the bait to marry her?
If she is a devout JW, she will be pressured to convert you, and they will otherwise control her life.
Run. Run now while you can friend.
She already married to the Borg, you're just asking for the ride, and the inevitable alimony payments.
Bro, run. I’m sorry but run. I was a JW for 35 years, if you want more info message me
Respectfully, RUN🏃♂️……you will thank me later. You will be looked at as a bad influence and she will begin to feel the pressure from the BORG to keep working on her husband (you). Trust me. Rip the bandaid off now. It will only hurt for a little while opposed to signing up for a future of a definite doom. I’m a living testimony… I know. Your sex life will become public information RUN FOREST RUN Run 🏃♀️🏃♂️🏃♂️🏃♀️🏃♂️🏃♀️ You will thank me later. You’re welcome!
Trust your gut. The Cult ruined all of our lives 😔
IT DOESNT STOP HERE. There have been so many comments that you probably won’t get round to this one. The carnage of this cult doesn’t stop with the JWs death.
A few people on here know Lots-wife and my circumstances. I hope my experience gives you another dimension to think about. So…:(
We were ultra pimi ex special pioneers in a missionary assignment for many years. I woke up 4 years ago and was shunned as an apostate. My husband of 55 years died recently. In his Will he had made two elders his Executors. (My solicitor was dumbfounded) I had to get permission from two elders who are shunning me to have my husbands Will released to me. I cannot sell my house without their permission and signatures as Executors.
I was told yesterday that the congregation had had a Memorial Service for my dead husband… without informing me or inviting me to attend (on zoom) shortly after his death.
The cold-heartedness and hubris of this cult knows no bounds. Their hatred of people who just walk out without giving them a reason to be disfellowshipped - and who refuse to Disassociate themselves (I don’t play their games) is astounding. My pimi mate has gone - but their influence on my life continues. No amount of ‘love’ for your gf can surmount the influence of this cult.