The cynic in me says your dad was eavesdropping and/or walked in 100% on purpose. But that’s probably just my black & white thinking.


He probably was eavesdropping, but it's nothing he hasn't heard from me directly




This was the first therapist I've had in 10 years who has had not 1 but 4 previous exjw clients!


Ask your therapist to write a paper on their findings and submit it to whatever journal therapists subscribe to. It might help other therapists better understand.


Very sound request.


I was genuinely surprised when she started using the jargon like "I've had disfellowshipped clients" or "ex-elders." Really amazing stuff.


Are they strictly online? I’d love to get messaged their info. I have been trying to find one who has ex cult experience


You had a therapist that suggested you go back to meetings? Why? Was your therapist familiar with religious trauma? Just curious.


Both of the therapist I tried suggested I go back! They both happened to be Catholic and could forgive their religion for csa at other mistreatment. No, I didn't try a third, I do my therapy in my garden,it works for me. I know , there will be those who say, does it really? I could ask the same of those who are going for years? To each his own.


Wow. I had a therapist a few years back who turned out to be a hard core Catholic and after three sessions began to push me to attend his congregation! I noped out of that immediately.


I highly recommend looking up therapists beforehand online on a website like PsychologyToday.com. I made sure my new therapist didn't list any religious affiliation and other things before contacting them. It makes finding a therapist much easier because you're not just calling random people hoping they'll be what you need.


Thank you for your concern.


> There is no armageddon. There is no Satan. That these two statements are true makes the third one bearable: When we die it's forever. That's okay. I mean, it's not great, but it's acceptable. At least to me. Far from being incompatible with a realistic awareness of death, peace of mind can come as a direct result of it.


It is a comfort, if a bitter one. No pain or suffering or injustice lasts forever. The worst, most vile person will come to their end. There's equality in that. The kings and pawns go into the same box when the game is done.


The Ancient Mesopotamians believed equality in death. The Norse saw there afterlife as a Continuation of life.


Death gives meaning to life. And that is a good thing, not a bad thing.


Funnily enough, one of the last conversations/arguments I had with my father before my DFing was announced ended with me telling him that “the world isn’t black and white - there’s a whole lot of grey that the rest of us all swim around in. Come give it a try for a change.” He never has and never will and is now about to shuffle off this mortal coil having spent his whole life in pursuit of a fairy tale. C’est la vie.


BS is way harder to defend when someone's outnumbered. Perhaps that's why the hasty retreat.


That's true in any fight, Right or wrong.


Your dad is a typical sly jw. He was eavesdropping. If he knew you were in the room for therapy, nonone just walks in. Being very nosey why was he with you? I can only presume he drove you to therapy. If so again he seemed to have a game plan.


Getting a therapist who understands religious trauma and has the tools to help you through it is the best thing I think ex-JWs or ex-anything religious can do. Great job giving yourself that gift and good luck.


complex PTSD is a real thing!


I am going to go ask to say the to prayer this year. It will go something like, hail Satan, hail yourself, let's eat.


or maybe just "jesus wept" & drop the mic


Too bad you couldn't lock the door and have the privacy you needed for that conversation. Or your dad respect the door was closed and give it to you.


agreed. I actually have nightmares of home invasion and people walking in on my while I have sex because he has never respected my privacy, ever 🙃


This is a nice reminder that for as much as I feel behind or immature, I'm actually the one growing.


Wow amazing story. You say that your POMO and have been for 8 years already , but you still manage to have a relationship with your mom and dad who are not just PIMI but one is an elder and the other is a pioneer, what I want to know is what is your secret , how have you been able to do that? To get and stay out of the organization and at the same time still communicate and have contact with your family? Me, I'm POMO, I've been out for three years, and I've had to play a cat and mouse game with the elders in order to, keep a relationship of communication, with my parents and at the same time stay out of the organization. You know to avoid them shunning me. So what has been your strategy, to keep a relationship with them?


My parents converted into the cult in their late 30's from some dude who knocked on their door. My parents had a whole lifetime of holidays and birthdays before conversion. They are also the only people in our extended family who are JW's, and when they became JW's in the 90's, a lot of family members cut them off because they perceived my parents as radicalized (which is true). I grew up without knowing the names of any of my cousins or grandparents, and unfortunately most of them died before I met them. When I got to college I started therapy for the first time. Therapy is an incredible thing. I left the cult and came out as gay in a 5 page letter. My dad is still in denial but my mom has clung onto her children. I think she has been victimized and abused by my dad and sees her children as an escape from the madness. My younger sister left the cult. She married a jew and actually secretly converted to judaism for the wedding. She has two completely beautiful kids and my mom sends secret birthday presents and Hanukah presents to them. It's fucking wild. My dad is oblivious. I'm coming to terms with his narcissistic personality disorder. And I'm coming to terms with the cult. /end rant


Your mom sounds like she's PIMO.


Thank you for posting this! I know when I was younger my thinking was really black and white. It wasn't till I got older that I realized the grey areas. So this really resonates with me!!!


*"As I was finishing my intake with my therapist, she had something to* *say: most religious fundamentalists are trapped in childhood, where* *everything is black and white; good or bad. They never developed the* *tools to understand nuance or subtlety. Their brains are trapped in* *elementary logical fallacies even when their bodies aren't.* *Fundamentalists are inherently stuck in a childhood worldview."* Wow !!! I think your therapist nailed it... children that never mentally grew up !!!


Happy Thanksgiving! You stated everything perfectly.


Sounds like a great therapist…


>most religious fundamentalists are trapped in childhood, where everything is black and white; good or bad. They never developed the tools to understand nuance or subtlety. Their brains are trapped in elementary logical fallacies even when their bodies aren't. Fundamentalists are inherently stuck in a childhood worldview. this is perfect


Help me understand something. You are visiting your parents for the weekend, and they didn't mind that you set your session up at their home. Was it at their home? Was it a zoom session? So he never brought up what he heard in his home.? Though he's an elder and your Mom is a pio , they still have a relationship you. ?


It’s not common, but it does happen (waves hand, out 25+ years, relationship with family members is still there). That being said, even though I still have the ability to walk into whatever family member’s house I want to, JW relationships are never fully authentic. There is always a feeling of fake to them that really rankles when you’re not one.


Yes,I agree. For my wife and myself, leaving after 40 plus years , no relationship with family is the same. Especially with our son's ! As far as authentic relationships, there's only one Mona Lisa, and then there the othes.


>There is always a feeling of fake to them that really rankles when you’re not one absolutely true


Ah yeah sorry that was vague. It was a zoom session and my dad had been out all day running errands. I was in his office when he got back (his office has the best wifi). Yes he is an elder and my mom is a pioneer. And yes they still have a relationship with me. And yes I talked about the cult to my therapist while sitting in his office which is filled to the brim with Watchtowers and elder documents and printed emails of elders talking to each other about people's sexual affairs. It is truly wild.


Just curious; you are visiting your pimi(?) Family, and knowingly scheduled your first therapy session during that time, which you then had, via zoom, in your parents house? Was this done purposely, in hopes of it being cathartic? If you were hoping for privacy, why not wait until you were in your own home? I mean, sure, visiting anyone's home there are certain levels of privacy expected (bathroom, bedroom if overnight), but it's still someone else's home. The potential to be walked in on, or overheard, is pretty high. If true privacy is needed, then waiting until you're in your own home, would be prudent. If, however, you didn't care, or actually hoped, or wanted to be walked in on, then it sounds like mission accomplished.