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finalseeker

If the fans are to be believed, a scholarly organization systematically, over three centures dismantled the royal line by removing their magic WMDs, instigating civil wars, sowing division and killing newly born babies and sometime their mothers. All because of a a seething hatred for the irrational. Pretty fucking based if you ask me.


BarristanTheB0ld

Sounds reasonable


finalseeker

Sounds schizophrenic, but good if true.


ea_fitz

It’s reasonable and they literally confessed to doing it.


Krioniki

I mean, the Westerosi equivalent of Alex Jones claimed that there’s some sort of conspiracy. Not the best evidence ever, imo.


ea_fitz

They literally confessed to it.


mikennjr

Who is "they". The only evidence we have of a maester conspiracy is from Barbrey Dustin and from Marwyn, both of whom hate (other) maesters


ea_fitz

They means maesters. Maesters have confessed to it. There is a good breakdown of the theory that expands on this on YouTube.


mikennjr

I'm asking YOU which maester(s) confessed to it. You seem pretty confident in your claim so you should be able to say who did it no?


ea_fitz

You literally just said it was Marwyn. That’s the one who said they killed the dragons. Are you good Lmao?


mikennjr

You said *maesters* in plural, and Marwyn is the only one who said it, and he hates other masters. Plus Marwyn is a drunk loony sot so why would you take anything he says as gospel lmao?


ea_fitz

He’s an archmaester who is incredibly intelligent and has travelled around the entire known world learning. Consequently I consider him a valuable source.


The_real_sanderflop

Marwyn is a conspiracy loon. He’s the in-universe equivalent of Preston Jacobs


SuruN0

While i’d agree, insofar as the Citadel clearly has some political agenda they are in pursuit, where did they confess?


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Sun_King97

Is that what he said? I thought he just vaguely implied they’re behind the death of the dragons (the animals, not the people)


ea_fitz

Also the Targaryens are deeply connected to the dragons and draw their own power from them. The physical and mental decline of Targ kings could be influenced by the decline of dragons.


ea_fitz

I would recommend you check because I haven’t read the books in about two years but there is significant evidence they worked against the dynasty itself. Pycelle tells the mad king to let Tywin into the city knowing Tywin was no longer on his side, for instance.


Sun_King97

Yeah but Pycelle is a Tywin Lannister dickrider. I’m not sure if his behavior is evidence of any conspiracy against the Targaryens


ea_fitz

The issue is we only ever hear that he's a Tywin dickrider from Pycelle himself. He was being interrogated by Tyrion, so it's likely he would say whatever he could to make himself seem like a Lannister friend. Bringing up the Sacking of King's Landing is an excellent cover story, since you could very justifiably use that to prove his allegiance to the Lannisters, but we rarely see him act in the favour of the Lannisters aside from that. He supports Tyrion being executed and he deliberately does nothing to help Cersei during the Faith Crisis. Furthermore, we see him actively try to have the last Targaryans killed, he's one of the council members supporting Robert having Daenerys assassinated. I think it's much more likely that he actually just hates the Targs, since he has no real reason to love the Lannisters. They treat him like shit, he's in the exact same position he was in prior to Joffrey's ascendancy and he's not a member of the dynasty itself.


Sun_King97

He essentially killed a Hand of the King on behalf of the Lannisters and that had nothing to do with House Targaryen at all. Then he tries to delay any consequences against Tywin for raiding the Riverlands. Then when Cersei gets arrested he offers the regency to another Lannister (probably because he’s aware he’s falling out of Cersei’s favor and Kevan is a better ally.) And he refuses to help Tyrion because that would obviously put him at direct odds with Tywin. He seems pretty consistently loyal to the house as a whole.


Jon-Umber

> A maester talked to Sam in ASOIAF and said something along the lines of ‘We killed them and their dragons off the last time.’ Can you cite this? I don't recall this at all.


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Jon-Umber

You look it up. You mentioned it


ea_fitz

You’re the one asking for it. It’s on the internet just look up ‘maester we killed their dragons asoiaf’


Jon-Umber

Burden of proof is on he who makes the claim.


ea_fitz

Cool quote, I’m still not getting you the source. You easily could have found it in the time you’ve been replying to me. If you really want it just look it up.


Jon-Umber

Removed: Misinformation/Refusal to cite source


ea_fitz

A maester talked to Sam in ASOIAF and said something along the lines of ‘Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around?’ after they see a glass candle has relight, showing magic had returned to the world, which they actively try to destroy. (Sauce for those with a poor internet connection: [https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Marwyn](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Marwyn))


Squiliam-Tortaleni

*dragon coughs* THE MAESTERS ARE POISONING THEM


Aussiepharoah

I would love to know what the maester's supposed plan to start the Dance was like


JellyfishAny4655

“Let’s start a massive Civil War between the people with magical fire breathing dragons (they have used to burn cities down before) and the family whose city we live in!!!!! Nothing could possibly go wrong!!!!!” They fomented a civil war: …why? No. Seriously. Why would they risk potential destruction of their whole way of life just so someone else can sit on a pointy chair? That makes no sense. Especially since in most cases the civil war was between one Targaryen or another which meant the Maesters gained nothing as the two sides fought. Also people treat the Maesters as a collective group making decisions and carrying them out as a unit. As an academic myself let me tell you we couldn’t even get everyone on the same page for basic tasks like *formatting a paper*. I can’t imagine what would need to be done to make everyone cool with starting a civil war. No. It’s just easier to blame the “Maesters” than admit the Targaryens are the most self destructive family in Westeros and a lot of their problems they brought on themselves in pursuit of power and glory. The only thing I’ve seen credible evidence they might have done is poisoning the dragon eggs. Somehow. We never actually get an explanation for *how* they did it much less if they did.


Alandrus_sun

In my head canon, they didn't start the Dance but realized how fortunate it was and that's when they acted on their ambitions.


Aussiepharoah

You mean that they poisoned the dragons? Because that's the only part that I think makes sense


No_Hearing48

Remember when Borros Baratheon couldn't read so a M*ester read him Rhaenyras letter. Likely mixing words here and there. That's the kinda shit the grey rats pull


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Jon-Umber

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Sun_King97

“Targaryen women die in childbirth because of the maesters! Everyone else also dies in childbirth because, uh, bad luck.”


Huor_Celebrindol

Victarion: “where’s the lie though”


BaelonTheBae

This. Plus if it takes three centuries for a continental-wide influential institution, having access to literally every castle (almost) in said country, with a very robust communication network, to destroy the Targs, then they clearly have not done a great fucking job at it. For two, the Citadel isn’t a fucking hive mind with a singular purpose of fucking over the Targs. Finally, the dumb theory completely removes any agency from the various Targ monarchs and princes, that ultimately the consequences of their actions led to their dynasty’s decline, and downfall. *Cough* looking at you, Rhaegar and Aerys. *Cough* The Maester Grand Conspiracy are the equivalent of flat-earthers in our universe, and fans are eating that shit up.


The_ginger_cow

To be fair I don't see anyone in a better position to do it than the maesters


The_real_sanderflop

I think the people who are really responsible for the downfall of the Targaryens are Aerys and Rhaegar