I got yelled at for being too autistic.
By - SquidsAreSeaBirds
Damn right contact HR! Hopefully they deal with her effectively.
Same here. The job itself is great, but I’ve been dealing with their ableism since the beginning.
Good for you contacting HR. I hope you get things sorted.
Good thing that you contacted HR. When a coworker or someone says to not contact a superior or any authority about THEIR behaviour. You have to do it.
I hope everything goes well for you and you can continue enjoying your work.
When a kid says, "Don't tell Mom what I did to you," you know that they knew better but did it anyway, and Mom won't be happy about it, and therefore you should tell Mom without delay, or it will keep happening in the future.
Yes, that behaviour is see through.
Like firing her for blatant discrimination and mistreatment of her employees, and not following the ADA.
Or, at the least a serious demotion where she can’t tell anyone else how to do their job.
If they don’t do something, the company needs to face sanctions somehow for not following the ADA. Also, she needs serious retraining.
Try to build a 'file' with HR about her. It really helps if other people complain as well.
Every single person I work with has complained about this one chick. She's said blatantly racist, abelist, homophobic, xenophobic.... Pretty much all the icks. And to top it off she's also incompetent and actually breaking the law.
They've done nothing. They refuse to look into it bc she says we're all bullying her. We've been told by people who know her that she's not going to do anything because she agrees with it all.
We have tried reporting within the usual networks and we could report the illegal crap but there's no way to do that anonymously. We would have to sign our name to it and even though we should in theory be legally protected that doesn't mean we would in practice and it's a very small world.
HR sucks and they'll 100% protect the company at your expense. Their job is to protect the company from you not the other way around, unfortunately.
Sometimes, protecting the company means protecting the employee. If there’s harassment, HR has to do something to avoid a lawsuit, and that will most likely benefit the victim.
A lot of other employees are afraid of speaking out because they don’t want to get fired. T^T
But this isn’t the first time I’ve addressed the blatant ableism of the company, and have even had to contact a lawyer in the beginning… smh
If they report discrimination and get fired, I'm sure the Department of Labor would be very interested.
It would also help if you can get her to put some of this stuff while its written down, and if you live in a 1 party consent state you can record the phone calls and share them with HR, as well as have legal proof should it escalate to court.
I would be careful with that. I would talk to HR about an accommodation to record conversations with supervisors to make sure you don't miss anything and can transcribe as necessary. You could also ask for conversations to be mostly email or IMs. If they say yes, you don't need to worry about the legality, the company has given you permission and you don't have to be sneaky about it. If she pitches a fit, you can report her for that. If it makes her behave differently because she can't just pretend she didn't act that way, then that's a win too.
This is a perfectly reasonable accommodation for an autistic. It gives extra opportunity to "review and assess the tone and implications of a management request."
Incidentally, that's exactly what you'll use it for, either way. You don't have to mention that a lawyer may be assisting when you do so.
This is a cover your butt move. Companies do not want lawsuits or bad press. Having multiple reports actually protects them from being fired. I've seen long term director level people let go for this sort of behavior. Your coworkers are actually encouraging this behavior by not reporting it.
I had a similar issue at my last job.
I'm 95% sure I'm on the spectrum, though I'm confirmed ADHD (I potentially have a diagnosis in a few months, though!), and my manager, like your supervisor, was just terrible at communicating and adjusting to people not thinking exactly like them. People like them will do exactly what you're manager did... Tell you not to say anything about it. Because that would mean exposing them.
My manager frequently talked me up and was really polite in group chats with the team, but I knew the moment that he said, "Can you get on a call really quick?" I was about to be gaslit, cut off after being asked questions, and piled onto. If I were you, I'd do what I did: Without immediately quitting, I started job hunting. As cool as my company and coworkers were, our lives are too short to struggle *this much* in a place we have to be at least 8 hours a day. *Especially* for those of us on the spectrum. Figuring out that I'm on the spectrum helped me realized that we have to whip *our* lives into shape and make them work for *us*, or it'll happen the other way around.
I was so demoralized by that job that I thought I couldn't get a new one. The moment I even mentioned to those around me (in my personal life, not at work) that I was looking, 3 recommendations from friends and my boyfriend as well as one call from a recruiter came through. I got 4 interviews and ended up getting an offer from the company I most wanted to work with. I just started here and despite fighting deep regret and fear over leaving the familiar (that autistic aversion to change), once I got here, I've loved it. I'm still in awe every day that people done think I'm stupid. I just worked for a stupid, selfish person. I hope you can find that for yourself, and you deserve that.
Whaaaat dude that’s so disappointing
Yes keep track of texts, emails etc so that you can use as proof. I call it keeping my receipts. I do this to make sure I was not at fault or to show I did the best of my ability and tried to correct a mistake.
It's also helpful in polite usage: "Okay, so in reviewing the request, I realized the issue. When you said XYZ, I read that as 'XYZ,' and didn't realize you actually meant to include 'XyZ' and 'xyZ,' much less 'zyX'. I now know for next time. I will be sure to ask clarifying questions when this type of ambiguity next arises, but you are welcome to assist by using precise instructions."
So, honestly I think that if you use it properly, I don’t see why you can’t record any conversations that you might have. If you have them, then you can write them down if not word for word, maybe just write down the biggest issues. Then if you could delete the whole recording without sharing it with anyone, you can use it to help you remember what people have said. I get so flustered under pressure and I forget too many important things, so I have used that a couple of times. Not for a situation like yours, but when I was in a private lesson for my horn where it helped me to remember what my prof. told me.
I'm so sorry this is happening. Definitely ask of HR can mediate a conversation with you and your manager so your manager can give you specific feedback. It's impossible to know how to improve if she can't explain what you did wrong. Good luck and keep advocating for yourself!
I think this was a good idea, and I also think it would be a good idea for you to save any communication that happens between you and HR because it will make it easier for you to advocate for yourself later. For instance: one of my friends was denied a promotion because the hiring manager heard she had been called to HR a lot and did not know that it was so she could give more details of reports of prejudice she had experienced, and he assumed that lots of people had complained about her.
Another thing to consider is that HR exists to protect the company, not to protect you, and if you need to sue the company later for wrongful termination due to ableism then they will not give up any of their documentation until the discovery process and it will be more convenient for your lawyer to have as much information and documentation as possible up front to build a timeline of events to figure out their strategy efficiently rather than having to wait for the discovery process to complete to get most of this information.
I hope things improve at your job. \*friendly internet hugs\*
Thank you! I really need to figure out how to record phone conversations because she insisted on calling me instead of going through the recorded chats. 😓
That is odd. Put that information, along with as accurate a transcript as possible, into your next email with HR so there is a record of it. That is better than trying to remember it later.
I like to send emails: "Just to confirm what we talked about on the phone..." and include a direct question that politely requires them to approve or deny the content of the unofficial conversation. Something like, "Did I understand that correctly?"
Remember the legal mantra, "if it's not in writing (or recorded), it never happened."
Anyone who insists on avoiding written communication, while telling you *not* to talk to HR, is playing a legal game, and hoping to keep her offenses "off the record." Don't let her.
Also, keep in mind that you can use "BCC" to send a "blind carbon copy" to HR, if the email conversation escalates. Use "CC" if you want to keep the reminder visible.
Yes. This is an excellent way to take make a record of it.
That's because it is not recorded. It's an intentional move on her part. No record means is easy to "forget" the conversation or specifics later.
I wish I knew she was going to yell at me like that.
Luckily, my supervisor was on the phone and she might be able to have my back.
But it isn’t recorded, and she is going on vacation for the next week or so…
It’s kind of put me in a pickle. :/
I’m hoping that my wife can get a job soon, so that I can rest and get a part time job instead…leave this toxic company for good…
Until then, I’m stuck with it. v.v
Hang in there. I know it's hard, but keep reporting her. Hopefully something will work out for you and get you free of this nonsense.
For your protection: make sure it’s legal to record phone conversations where you live. I live in the states, in NC. It’s a “one party consent state,” meaning only one of the people on the phone has to agree to being recorded. Some states require both parties’ consent.
You can also just say, on tape, "just so you know, I like to record work calls to be sure don't miss anything, like social connotations and such." If she keeps talking, that's agreement. Anything but hanging up is agreement. Even if she insists you can't, it's still your right, so insist. Half the time agressive work-tyrants will instinctively try to shove through the argument, even after insisting they won't talk to you on a recorded line. Being outside social instincts doesn't mean you can't use them to your advantage.
Build a file! And leave a paper trail! Summarize the conversation and send it to your HR through email. If one day you gotta fight in civil court, this will help you. Follow some lawyers on social media. They’ll teach you how you gonna want to protect yourself.
Good, gaslighting is never okay. And it seems HER tone is the problem.
Oh my god that bitch needs to rot!!! That is ABUSE. Take this to the law.
Same energy my best friend had when I told him. Lol
(He’s also autistic, and quit his last job for pay discrimination)
I'm glad you have such a fiercely loving friend. It's such a cruel world!!! I'm rooting for you!! How did it go with HR?
They are going to set up a time for a phone meeting next week about it. :3
I started adding smiley emojis to everything. Also, I find that people want lots of words, like, size matters more than accuracy and efficiency. Putting the Hi at the beginning is important to them. Etc.
This was going to be my suggestion too. Btw- I often accidentally send a chat or email and just included the “meat” without the salutations/ initial statement of well wishes.
This is the nightmare logic that confuses me with NTs, especially those in authoritative positions. Like, does being NT mean being *that* unaware of the flaws in their logic that they spit out with with every sentence?
Honestly where I’m at.
It seems so self absorbed and power hungry, both of which are illogical human traits. Why would someone feed into that? 🙄
IMO most NT leaders are narcissists and Machiavellian. And people are so used to those people being rude, angry and selfish that we get lumped in as them whenever we “act up”. But because we lack the narcissism and Machiavellian traits to take advantage of it we get pushed down while they get promoted.
Keep in mind that HR is there to protect the company, not to help you
At this point, helping the company IS helping me, as far as I can tell.
They don’t want to be sued for discrimination, and I don’t want to be discriminated against. 🤷
This person is dumber than a brick. If they want to argue at the very least have an argument that makes sense.
Apparently, she’s the only one allowed to say “tone.” 🙄
Urgh. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.
Subbed, that place is awesome!
That's a surprising amount of personal rage for 3 minutes of watching that.
I'm going to go punch a brick.
~~kill her~~ good thing you contacted HR
Hahahaha, this energy yes pls 🤣
Yeah I’m not digging through the comments but thats discrimination that you’re protected under through the ADA if you’re in the United States. I hope they get fired tbh. Shitty people deserve shitty consequences if they’re going to keep being uneducated and ignorant while also being rude about something you literally cannot control and are NOT going out of your way to do.
>She told me not to contact HR.
So I contacted HR about it.
Hahahah...she's probably screwed.
I hope so. Her and the other supervisor who complained about me being “rude and unprofessional” by the way I speak.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I’ve also had a boss in the past tell me I was being rude and disrespectful, but couldn’t give me examples of how/when/where/what to do to change that, etc. It ended with them just wanting me to think about being more respectful…how am I suppose to do that when I don’t understand what I’m doing that is disrespectful? It’s such a minefield out there and I’m proud of you for going to HR!
I am so sorry to hear this. Neurotypicals think that they understand and care about autism and neurodivergence but they all have internal ableism. No matter how much they are aware, they will still have ableism inside them. Don't blame yourself for this! Good thing you contacted the HR! Your supervisor said no because she didn't want her ableism to be caught.
I used to piss people off a lot more. I feel like there are kind of general rules you can use so you don't come off that way. For example, I used to think because I was very logical and fact based, I could just make valid arguments and people would have to listen to what I say, so I'd go out of my way to try to prove my point a lot of the time. I still try to be logical and fact based, but instead of proving my point, I very intentionally say things like, "What do you think of (my conclusion)?" when I'm with peers or superiors instead of trying to explain myself. Quite honestly I don't think I've ever had a subordinate other than kids I'm babysitting, but I'd probably do the same thing.
I still don’t understand what she meant, even as she was reading out my messages.
One of them was just a message asking which list to work from because I already had a list.
And she said that it was “rude and unprofessional,” which like…how? And she couldn’t answer me. ;-;
I don’t know how else to ask other than, “I noticed you sent me a list, but I already have one. Which one should I work first?”
You know? Like…it’s bothering me because that’s just…how I talk. I apologized for saying “lol” today, which isn’t out of the norm in the group chat with anyone. .-.
*The Simpsons* is 20th century, but there was an episode where the greedy, out of touch company owner Mr. Burns bought a professional baseball team or something and kept telling one of the players to shave his sideburns. Eventually the guy shaved the sides of his head and he was still telling him to shave his sideburns.
I'm not sure we can really help you know what she's thinking without talking to her. I can only speak to general principles I've noticed that have helped me. Like I try to be much more conscious of the question people ask themselves, "How does this affect me and what can I do about it?" Often, if you try to be "honest" without being careful for example, what we says implies someone's screwing up and they have to do something about it, instead of the idea that "I've got your back."
Can you tell me more about these lists? What are they for--lists of tasks to complete, lists of items to collect?
Accounts to call.
We have a list of accounts assigned to us daily, and more lists available if those run out.
I hadn’t run out of accounts before I had received another list, so I asked which one they wanted me to work first.
(Which ended up being a funny story in itself, because the list they sent ended up being mostly accounts I had already called or scheduled to call, lol)
I mean, I can only speculate, but the only thing that stands out to me is generally in the US individuality is prioritized and you're supposed to minimize the amount you ask someone else for direction or help. (I'm told in the Navy, they talk a lot about the story *A Message to Garcia*. The person who wrote the article I read about it was complaining that was a problem though.) Maybe you were supposed to assume you were supposed to just continue on the one you started and then start the next one.
Could be! I’ve never had an issue with this before this manager entered the chat.
And I think I have an idea of the other supervisor that supposedly complained about me being “rude.”
There is this supervisor that was in my nesting/training group and she was extremely ableist, and I stood up for myself during that time.
I spoke with other supervisors about her and they all agreed with me and she calmed down after that.
But it always feels like she has it out for me, and now I know she does.
(But also, they know that if they fire me for anything like that, it would be considered discrimination, so they haven’t even given me so much as a verbal warning for anything regarding my disabilities)
Weirdest thing about NTs is how much they like to be wrong
In my experience, time proved they often knew things I didn't--they just didn't want to go out of their way to teach me things, they were trade secrets, etc. Also, in those comparatively few times I proved they were being lax on some kind of rule or something, the immediate response was to point out all the rules I wasn't following or just general slack of mine other people had to pick up. At least in the 80s, there were a lot of movies about cops and things where they didn't play by the rules, but the got RESULTS and a lot of people liked these movies.
People can really suck. What a bad person. I know it's easy to say, but training yourself to be angry and direct that anger is very healthy for you. I'm very bad at confrontation and arguing with others, but doing what I said above is really helpful. When people overstep boundaries, gaslight you like in your case and try to paint you as the bad guy and an idiot, they'll go as far as they can to know your limit and they'll exploit not being confronted to abuse you and walk over you. talking back and "showing your fangs" so to say, will convey the message that you know what ground you're standing on and that you will not tolerate that sort of behaviour towards you. It's difficult and stressing to learn, but it's really helpful and will help you deal with that kind of people.
If you stand up and say in a very firm, stern voice something like "NO, it was YOU who said that about tone, don't try to turn this on me!" you'll disarm her and stop her on her tracks because she indulges in that behaviour because no one opposes her. As soon as someone stands up for themselves, she'll sulk, play the victim, get angry, try to blame you and try to say something like" see? That's what I'm talking about!", and instead of engaging, you just say" I'm taking this to HR" and do that without backing down. As I say, it's difficult and very stressful to learn to do that, but a short burst of well directed and controlled anger against abuse beats anxiety, a breakdown and an emotional overload. I know it helped me shut some people up when they were trying to overstep boundaries and get on my face or someone else's.
An anecdote on that is my mother and I in the supermarket accidentally getting ahead of someone in the line. He got all angry and started ranting and blaming us of being disrespectful and didn't stop and kept repeating himself without accepting our appology and explanation, making a scene. I got angry and stepped in and said rising my voice i "alright, It was an accident on our part and nothing else, so stop that already and calm down". He shut up for a second and just complained in a low voice once more, mumbled and went away with his groceries. I was anxious at first but I was left with a sense of satisfaction for being able to step up for ourselves.
On other occassions where I didn't do that I was left stressed, anxious, ruminating about what I could've said or done and with pent up emotions that gave me headaches.
Yeah. I have a similar thing with my Mum, who for some reason does not understand I am autistic and has ADHD.
You have done nothing wrong at all!
I tend to record conversations. Because recently my Mum has been 'gas lighting' me (as people say). I have had my friend and someone else tell me that it was gas lighting.
People are shitty. Especially when you are autistic, for some reason they think you're stupid. It's annoying. I'm sorry that happened to you 🖤
I’m sorry about your mom.
Parents are typically the best at gaslighting because they call it “parenting.” 🙄
It gets better. 💚
Another thing, also that I've found that helps.
If you're afraid of coming across rude, if you're texting someone, put smile faces, or emojis, or 'hi's something friendly. I do smilling faces out of habit now lol.
saying "lol" in every sentence to not appear rude ahahah
I emoji soooo much in sms these days 😂
Shank em with HR and then twist it so the message sinks in
>So I contacted HR about it.
Bahahaha I love this.
>on the verge of tears, and a seizure Me: “You literally just said that my tone is rude…”
I **hate** that so much. I'm grinding my teeth down just reading it. Aaaand just to add to the madness, your supervisor's manager just did what she was accusing you of. You should absolutely bring a print out of your recollection to HR when you have a meeting.
That’s the main reason why I posted here!!
One, support because it was a very traumatic and confusing situation, and two, because I know after a seizure, I can’t remember anything unless I write it down!
I had a similar(ish) thing happen when I got hired 2 years back. It was work from home, and this "supervisor" (not in supervisory chain, some random person) decided it was appropriate to scream for like two hours, where she had misread a timestamp and kept insisting that I had been 'gone' for 45 **minutes**, when the gap was 45 **seconds**. Mind, my work was and had been on-par, too, and I kept asking for someone else to talk to as soon as she started getting aggressive.
The abusive behavior directly lead into a seizure and hospitalization, which they fired me for. 👍
I'm so glad you are standing up for yourself by contacting HR and I hope they can give you the assistance you need! Sending lots of happiness and good luck your way.
I hope she always feels like she needs to sneeze but never can
Good on you for going to HR anyway.
Your supervisor's manager absolutely sucks. I hate how people go back on what they said too, I don't know how people deal with that.
Be aware that sometimes HR is for the company and not for the employees, so have written down all and any interaction with her and when you went to HR so if they let you go or start treating your in a discriminatory way you can contact a lawyer.
What a bitch. Hope you’re doing okay and she gets what she deserves
Keep on HR. Play up the the victim tole your boss has forced on you. Take her job.
Sue her, get her fired.
Im glad you contacted HR
Do you even interact with this bitch? If it's an issue your own supervisor should have brought it up, not your supervisor's supervisor.
This was my second interaction total with her, and she apparently felt personally attacked by “how I was acting.” 🙄
Yea. Ignore her. Tell HR. She just wants someone to pick on and you were her target this time.
That is no not appropriate, rude and annoying. Can you report the your supervisor for not being professional and discriminatory?
I would make a complaint against her.
Breathe, this should never happen.
I’m setting up a meeting with HR next week, since it happened on Friday.
We've fot your back, OP. That's seriously unprofessional of her to vent at you like that.
I appreciate it. I think she was trying to be intimidating, and I guess it worked, but in a different way she was expecting?
I have a feeling she thinks I lied/faked the seizure, though, which churns my stomach…
This whole thing has me thankful it’s the weekend and I have a break… v.v
HR's main goal is to prevent lawsuits and legal issues for the company, they're not your friend.
I’m mainly contacting them specifically to avoid the conflict. It’s stressing me out to the point to where I’m having seizures triggered, and I feel like that’s pretty alarming.
If they want to protect the company, so be it. But if they fire me for something that a manager caused, then…that’s discrimination, and I could sue either way.
My paranoia, record everything - always, always. As evidence
I will try and record the phone conversations from now on. All of the Skype conversations are recorded automatically, but she INSISTED she call me cell phone. Smh…
Well that lady is dumb af because you definitely can convey tone over writing (or else, wtf were my English professors making me analyze)
This made me legit giggle, thank you. cx
She didn’t seem very smart. More so like she only weighs 80 lbs and needs to be intimidating to the employees. Smh
I’ve read all your comments bc... yea
How neutrality is rude? Like that’s not something specific for being autistic there’s NT that are very neutral and objective and straight to the point as well. If you’re polite and formal it does not matter? NT aren’t the “ideal”, a lot of neurotypicals are plainly insensitive, without emotional intelligence and rude, as autistic people we can be WAY more patient and empathetic (not everyone but at least is not something that being autistic denies us from) and at least you seem like just a nice person with the adequate understanding.
That woman was coconuts, just that
I honestly think that people like this will take the neutral “tone” and it can swing either way.
“If there is no emotion attached to it, then it is obvious that this person is upset, condescending, or rude.”
Another one of those projection things that I don’t understand why people do. v.v
File a big fat complaint to HR for sure! also consider getting another job, show them that they can't treat you like that!
I'm high functioning autistic and work in HR in the UK, I can't help if you live anywhere else, but happy to talk it through if you are over this side of the pond.
I live in the US, unfortunately. 😭
She's just in an intolerant hypocrite, being rude herself and thinking that she's entitled to act that way due to her position. She's not, don't let yourself be treated like that.
So you're saying the reason you are perceived as "RUDE and NEGATIVE" is due to the autism?
The gist of it is that I could not fathom — still really can’t fathom — why anything I had said could have been rude or negative, and when I tried to ask why, I figured she did not know that I was autistic.
That’s when I had said, “Can you point out what you mean? I’m autistic and cannot see why it would be perceived as rude…” etc. she ended up cutting me off before I could finish the sentence, and literally yelled at me because of it.
As if that would somehow help the situation or something.
So in essence, yes, she was yelling at me for “being autistic,” even if her argument was that she was “yelling at me for being rude.”
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Brushing off that you say that you are autistic and you don't understand may give people the idea that autism is a bad thing. Try saying, "I have a difficult time understanding, can you please elaborate"