T O P

In Major Promotion Shift, All Soldiers Will Serve as a Corporal Before Moving to Sergeant

In Major Promotion Shift, All Soldiers Will Serve as a Corporal Before Moving to Sergeant

Vladthewarrior

Conspiracy theory time: In order to reduce amount spent on personnel, the Army is going to phase specialist out completely and make our ranks more like every other branch.


superash2002

Correction. You want to be a Specialist you can join the Space force. They have SPC1- SPC4


Sellum

You will address me as Guardian or nothing at all!


Blast_Fiend_

I prefer Astartes...


m4fox90

Tbf Guardian tracks a little better with Custodian than Astartes


LostB18

But then they’ll be expected to function with half their brain at any given time to eliminate the requirement for sleep. At that point why not just join the Army?


L0st1nTheW0ods

They can only use that title if 90%+ of their basic training unit dies during basic training.


WorksOfLove

Space Force recruits are gonna have to storm Area 51 and evade an Ambull if they wanna receive those genetic enhancements/Chili Mac MREs.


lvl100_richarizard

New headcanon: astartes nutrient paste is just pureed chili mac MREs consumed through a straw


WorksOfLove

So it is written, so it is true.


T_ron98

Sry, best I can do is guardsman.


TeddyRustervelt

*Planetary Defense Forces conscript. The chair jockeys at USSF will never go off world in our lifetime except for the .01% that become astronauts.


TaffyGnome

The apitome of downgraded to a handshake, Warhammer 40k edition


Wright-Now

I think that your estimate of the number that will become astronuts (oops astronauts) is rather inflated. The number is more likely .00001.


[deleted]

No one goes anywhere without a battle brother.


Topcity36

This is the way


ThatOneDudeFromOhio

Shut up space private.


utguardpog

Isn’t that...special.


[deleted]

[удалено]


JohnWickin2020

space force has nothing to do with astronauts.......... they still work for NASA


SSGOldschool

In 2010 the conspiracy was that we were phasing out the Corporal rank to reduce the amount spent on personnel. Now its making a raging comeback? My guess is the reality has something to do with SD/CQ staffing levels and the need for an NCO.


Vladthewarrior

Wait how would that reduce personnel spending? It’s the same as specialist.


vangsvatnet

Imagine justifiably paying every team leader as an E4 and eventually it just becomes the norm. Fix suffering NCO populations and fill higher billets while paying less.


SSGOldschool

It reduces the overhead: you only have to track one rank against one grade. So paperwork is simplified, it uses less bytes in the computer memory/database tables. You only have to print/produce/license one rank per grade. That saves space on the clothing sales walls...


kdoss1125

They're not eliminating spec, they're just pushing all e4p to cpl


Amidus

Using less bytes would be super useful about 30 years ago.


SomeEffinGuy15D

The problem is that the Army has the, "Up or out," mentality now. You know who got RCP'd while I was in? Everyone that actually gave half a shit about their job. And now they're out making 6 figures while disillusioned E6's who only got their rank because of the Iraq Surge are too fucking stupid to see what's happening.


FsuNolezz

This comment is full of 15D energy and I love it.


SSGOldschool

Down with Up or Out. I've been screaming that since 2006.


MikeOfAllPeople

Turns out the senior NCOs in charge have a hard on for NCO shit.


MikeNew513

https://i.imgur.com/XnuSKgB.gif?noredirect


LeadRain

Bring back the SPC corps. The idea that everyone is a "leader" is fucking laughable.


GMEbankrupt

I actually agree with you. There are some people that have better talents behind the scene and absolutely suck being in charge of anything. These are usually nerds that get out after one term then come back to the GS or VA making 100K/year


FilthyConvert

Warrant would seem the propper route for people who want to be SMEs in the job field.


Teadrunkest

Not every job field has a warrant track, and most are very broad spectrum anyway.


FilthyConvert

Like a LGTBQ+ spectrum?


Teadrunkest

Interesting time to have a hot take.


FilthyConvert

It wasn't a hot take, it was dark humor papi chulo


Taira_Mai

Warrants, Commanders and NCO's come and go - it's the E4 mafia who keeps the unit running. Not every soldier wants to lead troops nor is every soldier cut out for the officer/warrant officer corps. There were SPC ranks for E4 through E7 (the SP8 and SP9 were only on paper). There is a MOH awardee who was a SP5 when he earned it.


FilthyConvert

Rgr sarnt, my appointment is at 1300 (but really it's 1503).


yokozuna_666

Spec 8? You’d have to be such a pro at slacking, you’d be able to miss your own promotion ceremony and no one would wonder where you were.


Taira_Mai

SP9: * When told to police the motorpool - cancels the detail * Even the Warrants have never seen him on duty * Has 3 secret sham spots that IG, CID and even the NSA can't find * Has the Gut Truck on speed dial * Has so many appointments that 1SG needs a spreadsheet just to track them * Made so much money covering other people's CQ shfts that he bough a Camero with cash * Knows how to hit that tricky piece of equipment just right so it starts working * Strippers tip *him* * Despite the layout and the rucks being stored in a locked room - still brings dip, smokes and pogey bait to the field


zerogee616

Warrants aren't senior technicians. Warrants are advisors to the commander.


FilthyConvert

Plenty of Warrants that are Technicians, who advise the commander. There are warrant officer jobs that literally have the name Technician in the title.


zerogee616

ADA's a little different (as someone who's been in a Patriot BN, some would say they aren't even real warrants), but the job description of warrants for most MOSs doesn't involve turning wrenches with the Joes as a day to day thing. They're primarily desk drivers that solve problems others can't and advise the boss. Whether or not they do as a matter of practice is based on manning and if they have enough people. SPC-whatever and warrants are not synonymous.


Taira_Mai

Have real MOS tests before the board - to many "NCO's" are rock stupid abut their actual MOS but can quote the shit out of random Army trivia. The AF and Navy get it right - NCO's/Petty Officer candidates must pass a real test on MOS knowledge *before* they go to the promotion board. So have real MOS tests run by HRC and then the candidates can go to the CSM's board of random Army knowledge. This would eliminate the "board babies".


Ubergopher

The Air Force SKT test is a bit of a joke and bears only a passing resemblance to actually career field stuff.


spanish4dummies

skit? skeet?


girthy-doc

i disagree, i think we should just have NCO's in non leadership positions. Similarly to how i'm going to be an army physician, and will make 0-5 relatively easily without ever taking command.


LeadRain

Isn’t that basically the same thing though?


girthy-doc

Basically i guess! My only counter point is spc ranks make things more complex, thats all


Sellum

The idea that I should retain, train, and increase pay of those that don't want an increase of authority or responsibility is laughable.


LeadRain

It's what millions of blue and white collar folks do in corporate America all the time. You can be good at your job, increase your skillset and be a value to a team without having to be part of the planning or development process. Raises and/or bonuses are standard. Look at the contracting world outside of the military... dudes literally doing the exact same job they did in the military for triple the pay but don't have to be in any kind of "leadership" roll.


mkvrgs4

Totally agree. Only the Army would want to waste whatever investment it puts into someone for another organization to swoop in and reap the benefits. You got the Army paying for a clearance, experience, training, not to mention base/special pays and allowances for XX years that is just so haphazardly discarded.


Sellum

All of those jobs have either hard or soft caps that won't allow anything except cola raises after a certain point. No company wants to pay two people the same amount but give one authority and the other none for similar jobs


OneNumber2595

> No company wants to pay two people the same amount but give one authority and the other none for similar jobs They may not want to but they end up having to. A manager is easy to replace, an expert in whatever field not so much. experts end up being able to get paid more and be on hourly which means they get OT and tend to do it in less hours worked. Its the same in the civ world with the whole nco or spc corp. some follow the managemnt path and many follow the more technical path or in the case of sales moving to bigger more complicateed accounts instead of sales managment. The civ world has it figureed out for the most part on this topic.


NotMyPrerogative

You'd be very surprised to see how often that exact thing happens.


stackweightsgetdates

But this stuff would work in the reserves and guard too. Some people don’t want to be warrants and some MOS don’t have warrants Some want to remain a specialist and continue their training and education. As a sergeant in signal, the last time I did anything related to my MOS was 3 years ago. I don’t mind being a leader but I don’t like being a leader and not knowing the answers that can fix our equipment. Warrant is a step I’d like to take next but others don’t want to and love working on equipment.


m4fox90

The idea that wielding authority for its own sake is more important than technical expertise is laughable.


Sellum

Where do you think someone is making more money than their boss because they are an expert?


BrokenEyebrow

You are losing experience that is valuable with thinking like that. My wife is a great example, she's amazing on the systems but kind of lacks the leadership and will be getting out because that's the only path. She doesn't need to be told how to make products or what the commander and staff want and need to see from a product. These things are only kind of taught, but flourish with experience. She could easily do the job of two soldiers with the efficiency of her work. Not everyone holds a rifle, this ain't the Marines, and not everyone is a leader. But providing a pathway to retain experience should be a thing.


vey323

This already exists in the federal civilian workforce. I'm the highest grade I can go without accepting supervisory/manager duties. I'm 5 grades higher than an entry level position doing the same job with far more oversight and half the pay. The only way to move up in grades in the same job series is to demonstrate increased technical skill, AND you have to apply & be approved for it - it isnt automatic. It's effectively SPC1 to SPC5


Intelligent_Egg2785

They don’t want SPCs, they want talented NCOs. So if you don’t want to be a leader, just ETS or get on the band wagon. It’s pointless to try and argue otherwise.


LeadRain

That’s wicked short sighted and probably one of the reasons that so many people are getting out.


Intelligent_Egg2785

This is what the Army needs right now, and for the foreseeable future. Maybe in 20 years the strategy will change. But for now, its Up or out.


Umpire_Lonely

That's what I felt was happening. However, either the army has to start treating in regards to authority and pay E-4 as either an NCO or private. Not this "You are what is convenient at the moment."


onnthwanno

This is basically what they did with moving the Major promotion to during CGSC rather than before. They saved around $1000 per month for an entire cohort of officers while loosing nothing at the unit level. They still come out Majors after CGSC but now you pay them less while they are there.


Scottkimball24

They could prob do marines, Air Force and Army with same ranks pretty easy. If it’s better that way do it if not don’t do it


spanish4dummies

[E1 - E4 : Specialist](https://www.military.com/space-force/enlisted-ranks.html)


Child_of_Khorne

I'm not against this as someone who came from one of those branches.


Dipplord96

I think this apart of a budgeting plan but I'm not sure.


Gravexmind

I would support this. If you’re going to act like your typical shamurai Specialist, then you might as well just be a Private First Class.


Trimestrial

I really don't know what problem the Army is trying to fix with this change of policy. Too few "NCO"s to pull staff duty? In low density MOSs you'll a NCO but be in charge of nothing.


Squidyhendrix

Or in an over slotted MOS you'd be one corporal and 10 E5s. My old platoon had like 7 E5s and like 10 SPCs. Makes no sense.


Dritalin

They could bring back the rest of the SPC ranks, let us get up to E8 as a professional instead of a leader.


Squidyhendrix

I'd rather be a SPC6 right now than be an NCO. Trucks don't talk back. I like my MOS. Its kinda why I chose it. Now I'm stuck mostly doing paperwork and dealing with soldier issues. I try to get on the floor as much as possible but it's harder when I have a meeting followed by a meeting with an AAR for the meeting following that meeting. But it will never happen because the Army is dead set on making people who can't/don't want to lead into leaders. I know mechanics that are E5 and don't know what kind of oil goes into an engine nor do they know PRT, D&C, etc. They're a waste of a slot.


TaffyGnome

This. So much this. The maintnance world is ripe with the amount of NCOs who don't know thier job, but can point to the reg that covers why your coveralls shouldn't be dirty..


Squidyhendrix

I made this statement before and it got downvoted to hell lol. I know an NCO that before she picked up put 80/90 in a Humvee engine. Why? Because there's apparently gears in an engine so she used gear oil. I don't see why people are mad that I expect basic MOS competency from an NCO.


FilthyConvert

Probably the part where most specialists are in a weird area of being a leader but also not.


Teadrunkest

I think it’s meant to give SPC(P) the “authority” prior to them being able to pick up. Essentially acknowledging that if you are ready for SGT and the only thing holding you back is the Army manning levels itself, might as well throw you a bone and start treating you as an NCO. Reality and intention can sometimes be different but I do *understand* the logic, and honestly it’s how most units were using CPL anyway.


spanish4dummies

Sometimes, it turns out, a SPC(P) didn't do the bare minimum to max correspondance points.


Triforcegoodbuyok

Poor bastards


Smarteric01

How is this a ‘major shift’? They are still E4s. Over the course of my 20-year career, including multiple commands, the only time I treated a corporal different than a specialist was when assigning CQ rosters. A team leader corporal has no more or no less authority than a team leader specialist. Quite frankly, they don’t really have any more or less authority than an E5. Guys don’t lead with their rank, particularly at that level. The only thing this changes, to great fan fare, is everyone serving CQ duty … which they inevitably do over the course of their career anyway. I guess someone in the Pentagon needed a evaluation … and this was it. Congratulations on increasing the sewing requirements for our E4’s, somehow … this is what got through. Not quality of life issues in the barracks. Not abysmal chow in the DFACs. Not throwing NCOs under the bus when systems fail. Corporal … that’s the Army fix. Awesome.


slayermcb

I think that's what they are trying to change. Make Corporal a real rank again and not just a placeholder. Change the Spc team leader aspect so that Cpl is filling the role instead. However... On paper, it makes sense that your "Real NCO's" have the experience as a leader before they fill the role. But what the top see's and what the bottom does are diffrent experiences. I just remember every Cpl I ever saw was treated like shit. The NCO's treated them like attack dogs or babysitters for the junior enlisted, and they were ostracized as traitors and rats by the Spc and below. The "teachers pet" rank that tried to do battle (and inevitably fail) with the E-4 mafia.


Smarteric01

That’s exactly the point … people are guessing at what the reason and desired end state is. What problem does this fix? Our enlisted have an entire laundry list of things that need to be addressed. Is anyone listening? Well, the guys in the crystal tower made this change … for some reason. No way it’s just group think …


PerformanceOver8822

Only.way CPL will ever make any sense is if they bring back Spec 5 and Spec 6


ConcentrateOdd4475

Yeah im a SPC team leader and I thought the only change is that I have to go out and buy a corporal rank. Nothing else would change. Gg SassMAG you saved the army.


spanish4dummies

I had a SPC TL, while I was a SPC ATL, with 2 other SPCs on our team. I would be devastated if the TL had been a CPL because his head was already inflated enough as it was.


BoltedUp17

Thats you (not) treating them differently from the top down. From the bottom up they definitely get treated differently.


slayermcb

Snitches, rats, "teachers" pets, and traitors to their e-4 brethren. Never trust a Cpl. with E-4 business.


skotfreezy

Lol like what SPC is gonna even listen to a CPL once your a CPL your no longer in the E-4 Mafia. ✌️


Smarteric01

Not true. When I assigned a Team Leader, that was that. The position holds the authority, not the specialist or corporal rank. I cannot think of a single case here some dickhead decided to blow off a team leader and the cause was ‘specialist’ rank rather than corporal. When douchebags got out of line, all that authority ultimately rests with the Commander, and we, top and I, absolutely hammered them. Do,you honestly think, while handing out an article 15, that top and I would be swayed by, “But Sir! He’s ONLY a specialist!” Or do you think that Top and I were not exactly bamboozled by this excellence in barracks jurisprudence and let the guy off rather than having him move sand bags back and forth for no reason and for even less pay too boot? Do you think anyone would try, “But gosh darn Sir, he’s ONLY a specialist,” a second time? Chapter packets with that kind of documented counseling sailed right through the CG and onto OTH discharge. Commanding Generals were just as impressed with, “Sir, I mean super Sir, he was ONLY a specialist,” as I was. Those meetings generally ended with the CG asking me for a pen. No worries though, now that guy would be an E4 corporal ... so ... what exactly? Douchebags will still get to enjoy sand bags too? OK. Please stop for a second and realize that multinational corporations manage organizations even larger than the Army ... and no one wears any rank at all. Somehow, everyone seems to know who is in charge anyway. Team leaders are in charge. Doesn’t matter what rank you sew on. That’s the reality of the situation.


BoltedUp17

You can have corporals and specialists which aren't team leaders, who definitely get treated differently. You're making up arguments to prove your point instead of just admitting than enlisted soldiers can and do view and treat specialists and corporals differently. You're making the argument for the team leader position vs non team leader position, not specialist vs corporal. Then follow up wit the whole "please stop for a second and realize" okay dude. You're so cool because you have some enlightened view of the world right? The reality is that the military has ranks, and ranks get treated differently. That's just facts whether you agree with them or not. Rank also does not = pay grade or position. Thought they thought you that in fancy lad school.


Smarteric01

A team leader is different than a non-team leader. A corporal who is not a team leader is a specialist. That whole E4 thing tough to comprehend? Do you have a problem with, “It’s the position that has the authority.” Are you not grasping something there? That you treat them differently is an anecdote, not reality. You are mixing facts to not be wrong. Being a dick about it is even less rational. Go ahead and blow off your specialists team leader … I’m sure you must be right and Top and your CO will buy it. Make sure you bitch at them for being enlightened about specialists. That should help your case.


DyingWorld72

Somethings never change...


Scottkimball24

Makes sense the US Army promotes people to sgt way fuckin quicker than other countries


Stankykitty

I’ve heard of a 2 and a half year sergeant


FaptionBronson

I had a SGT who pinned in 2.5 years. He's at 3.5 now and serving in a SSG Role. He's actually everything you'd want for a guy in the position, but he's the exception, there's way too many dipshits in charge of a rifle squad or artillery section who really shouldn't be.


Shakey_J_Fox

I have heard that if you make the cut for the all Army band you get promoted to e6 upon graduation of AIT. You tryout prior to signing the contract at meps. There’s a possibility of being an 18 year old e6 with less than a year in the army.


dlexysia

Yes because we want the best oboe players in the world in our Army. Have to compensate them as such. You want “The Army Goes Rolling Along” to sound fucked up at MY brigade change of command?


ZeroCalorieBacon

I mean there’s the possibility of being a freaking flight warrant right off the street too. I feel like ranks in those jobs are not as material as they are to the rest of us, they just need to get paid for their skills.


Stankykitty

I had a DS on pickup day who was a E6, halfway through on the day of iron sight qual was a E7, and shortly (3 months or so after) I left pinned E8. She wasn’t even that good of a NCO/DS. Had a ND on the range, taught us all fucked up TCCC and couldn’t operate a SINCGARS and flagged us during Buddy Team Live Fire during a demonstration. Edit: she’s a E7 acting in a 1SG position. She’s not E-8. I saw where she was “1SG” but upon further research she’s filling that spot. I’ll also drop her name if allowed (it’s literally on the command website).


Sellum

I'll take shit that didn't happen for $800.


Stankykitty

Never mind so she’s a E7 acting in a 1SG role


Stankykitty

I’ll literally drop her name rn if it’s allowed


Teadrunkest

No. No it’s not.


Stankykitty

Look at my clarification comment


Teadrunkest

I don’t really care. I just want to double down that no, doxxing people is not allowed.


Stankykitty

It was rhetorical


theotherwhitemeat93

You do get promoted to SSG, but most of those people have their Master’s or a Doctorate and you will probably never run into them unless you go to a performance. They live in a bubble.


the_falconator

I got selected for SGT and 2.5 years, because of STEP I spent a year as a CPL before going to BLC and pinning SGT though.


mdwst

If this gives E4s a chance to cut their teeth in leadership roles, then this could be really beneficial- so long as they're actually being mentored by more senior NCOs and not just thrown into the fire. Edit- Seen a couple comments about bringing back SPC ranks. I wish this would be something the Army would seriously consider. I get the idea of "Evey soldier is leader" but don't we need people who know their jobs really well who are okay following? Also... Yeah, increase pay and bring in NCOERs.


FilthyConvert

Removing Specialist would have an impact on army culture. Specialists are the epitome of feeling like they deserve to find a way out of tasks because of a veteran status. Corporal helps to mold you into a NCO role, you come out of being a lowly private and now you have stripes, you have legitimate authority over your compadres. Corporals will still sham, but introduce NCOERs, and they might think twice before going to the smoke pit for 45 minutes.


Teadrunkest

CPLs don’t get NCOERs.


FilthyConvert

Yet


MattTheAccountant

Honestly, having SPCERs that get taken into account for promotions might get rid of shamming


the_falconator

we have those in the national guard, they are called E4 evals, instead of an in person board the eval gets sent to the board and they award points based on your eval and put on the promotion list.


FilthyConvert

Maybe we should just rehash the whole system.


spanish4dummies

> "Evey[sic] soldier is [a] leader" **Narrator:** *It turned out that not every Soldier was, in fact, a leader.*


mdwst

Apparently not all soldiers can type coherent sentences either. 🤦 That's what I get for not proof reading.


spanish4dummies

No big. When I’m giving instructions and tasks I’m like Luis from Antman


Suicidal_Ferret

Every time this topic comes up I have to toss in my two cents. E3 should be the last auto promote. From 3 to 4, you can test for SPC4. SPC4 to SPC5 is also a test. SPC5 then goes to WO1 and WOCs. That entire path is strictly SME. Or you can go PFC to CPL and focus on leadership.


mdwst

I like this idea.


SomeEffinGuy15D

Remember when specialists were actually specialists and had their own rank system because it would be fucking retarded to expect a highly skilled to herd cats rather than do their god-damn job properly?


spanish4dummies

meow


PirateHunterGuy

nyan


SloshyMeatbag

Eww


LeadRain

Not sure how this will affect the guard. My squadron is wildly short on E5-E7... so I'm guessing that CPL time will be short as fuck. To put it in perspective, my regiment is the largest unit in the state. The E6 promotion list for my MOS (Cav... in an ACR) was like 13 people. Maybe people would do DLC if they got paid for it? IDK.


Ovvr9000

Best we can do is consecutive 29-day orders, still make you go to AT despite being on COVID orders for over a year now, and then question why you didn't get DLC done.


FuckRetention

People will do DLC if they get counseled for it or barred. Why would you get paid for something you're supposed to do?


LeadRain

Active gets paid for it… reserves get paid for it. And lol at barred from re-enlistment. My unit just removed a flag from a 6 year E2 who has NEVER passed a PT test outside of basic… because our numbers are so low.


MattTheAccountant

“Active gets paid for it” hahahahahahahaha We were literally not allowed to do it during duty hours


LeadRain

In that case, your leaders are shit at time management. I did SSD1 and DLC2 on active, M-F, during duty hours, in a combat arms unit, between gunnery. My troop treated us like adults.


FuckRetention

We get paid for it?! It's a requirement... to advance to the next skill level


LeadRain

Yes… you also have access to computers that you can do the stuff on. This isn’t me arguing, I knock that shit out as soon as it’s assigned. I’m just pointing out reasons why part-time dudes don’t do the things.


FuckRetention

Nah, https://www.ezarmypoints.com/get-paid-army-ssd1/ Insinuates the payment is only for part time. Unless you mean Active Duty gets paid not on an hourly basis...And that computer shit ain't a good excuse PV2 me and ALMS were on a first name basis when the shit failed. This involved me emailing screen shots to them WHILE overseas. There should be no reason a Soldier doesn't do their training. I was doing my training AFTER the duty day/PT on my phones wifi. That's a weak excuse.


LeadRain

Ok.


ididntseeitcoming

Fucking Sergeant Major of the Army right here boys. No one cares. Literally only fucking trash leaders force soldiers to do shit like that on their own time. Either carve time out of Joe's duty day for Joe to get it done or it isn't that important. Change my mind.


DickMcMichael

You know what we aughta bring back, corporal punishment.


chillywilly16

You’ll never make SPC again at this rate.


sentientshadeofgreen

> Corporals and specialists are both under the E-4 paygrade; that means a corporal, despite being considered a junior NCO and having more responsibilities, makes the same pay as a specialist. Nobody had better put any of this as a bullet on their fucking OERs/NCOERs until that gets fixed. Pay your corporals more you stingy fucks. It makes sense to have all promotable E4s become corporals, but don't half-ass the execution of this.


jamtheski

Corporals also dont have to get NCOERs so all of their accomplishments with soldiers will go straight to the squad leader.


spanish4dummies

Pizza party


MattTheAccountant

The Army can’t decide to pay corporals more. Pay grades are established by Congress. If anything, they will get rid of the SPC rank and be more like Marines or Navy


FilthyConvert

They should change promotion boards next. Create a standardized process that will ensure everyone has the same fair chance at succeeding. The difference in our board experiences may vary too much.


derp4077

Remember promotion is based on needs of the army not skill


FilthyConvert

Oh right


AssaultPlazma

This is sadly very true.....


Suicidal_Ferret

When I saw a SPC with a criminal record and known for fucking up the most basic of maint procedures **with the fucking work package in hand** promote…I realized it didn’t fucking matter if I made rank. Add that to the list of reasons why I turned down E5.


KRUM-KRUM

They made movement in this direction with the mandatory integration list. However I would argue that backfired pretty hard with the automatic promotions or having to BAR soldiers who aren't quite ready. I do feel like the unit needs to have a say in promotions.


Southern_Type_23

When I got out in 2016, my battalion(maybe went up higher, idk) started promoting every SPC(P) to CPL while they were waiting for points because most points to SGT in ADA were maxed out at that time. I was in that unit for 4 years and that was the first time that happened. The 3 years before that, I only saw like 2 or 3 CPLs in my battalion.


spanish4dummies

I was in a unit that didn't have a E5 MTOEd for my MOS so "couldn't be laterally promoted" so I existed as a SPC until I picked up


doransignal

They are doing everything to get rid of the e4 Mafia


slayermcb

Once Corporals are actually a thing again, and no longer the "teachers pets," I'm betting they're going to just be another branch of the same mafia, just twice as jaded as before. Same pay, 10 times the responsibility, and still not part of the Sergeants club. It'll be the E-4 Mafia high rollers club.


drhyde6969

Rank means less and less every year I'm in. I'm positive an E5 10 years ago carried the same weight an E6 does now.


slayermcb

in 2005 I was a PFC, our specialist in an e-6 slot changed duty stations. His replacement (e-6 type) request a change as soon as he arrived and left after 2 months. I was the senior most guy on our team by time in grade by two months, and I was leading a team of 3 other soldiers on a "special" duty assignment. PFC IC (in charge) for at least half my time in Korea. Rank only matters for paperwork and what side of the ass chewing you get to be on. As long as the job gets done the Army keeps rolling along.


spanish4dummies

I'm an E5 that was in an E6 slot until the MTOE was dropped to E5 a month in. Triflin.


troyemcintosh

F*ck I'm old. Since when did SPC4s get promoted straight to SGT? Is that due to high turnover? Back in the '80s it was always SPC4s trying to get a seat whenever PLDC was run and then, after passing, trying to meet whatever other mickey-mouse reqs to get that CPL lateral move. (usually meaning you had to be "in" with the NCO old-boy club. If 1SGT didn't like you, you weren't going anywhere.) Then it started all over to get that 3rd chevron. At least that's the way I recall it working during my time in the 2nd 187th. Maybe that's all down to unit politics?


Galdae

PLDC went away with the dinosaurs. How'd the hell you post to reddit on your fax machine?


troyemcintosh

> How'd the hell you post to reddit on your fax machine? Isn't that what Corporals are for?


OneNumber2595

No. CPL doesnt know how to use complicated equipment. thats what spc corp is for. cpl just accounts for the spc and makes sure he has the tools,resources and training to do the job and other ncos dont fuck with him. If he knew how to use or maint it he would be a spc4 or 5, he is a cpl so its safe to assume he has other "skills" He prolly runs fast.


ClericForTheDead

Okay, but make the BAH without dependants and loving out of the barracks E-5. Stop punishing people who don't want to get married.


derp4077

Remember a married e3 makes more than a single e5 and the e3 can build wealth with a house purchase


ClericForTheDead

And that's just stupid. I feel like the army activity encourages marriage with perks and a bunch of your privates get married when they have no business doing so and are setting themselves up for divorce just cause barracks life sucks. I'm 26, I went in last year and I'm a grown ass adult who just wants some damn sleep but my drunk ass neighbor in the barracks would rather party all night loud AF I don't want to get married, I don't plan on having kids and Im trying to make a career outta this shit. Unless I get a waiver or get married I've got about 3-5 years til I have the TIS and TIG to make SSG, even then I gotta pass the board. Shit don't make sense unless I'm married.i gotta stay in the barracks when I'll be over 30


No_Presentation_6655

I feel ya Bro! 31 years old. Been in since 2017 and just got out of the barracks last month. I got lucky they were renovating the barracks I PCS’d into. But if I hadn’t…I’d suggest finding a good buddy. $20 is $20 as they say.


ClericForTheDead

Shit I am *this* fucking close to just marrying someone if they're cool with being roomies and getting some of my free healthcare and shit. I love my job and the regular bullshit don't bother me to much so in pretty chill but there barracks and people in them are driving me to the edge. I get called the 'dad' and old guy cause I'm not looking to go out and party every damn night, how they stay up past midnight and still function the next day boggles my mind. Their blood must but 75% Bang and Monster by now


Cross_Ange

Bring back chosen man


randomdice1

Now that's soldiering


ILoveReesesCups

Will it be the E-3 Mafia now?


slayermcb

nah, just a diffrent branch of the same club. Part of the E-4 mafia is the jaded nature of the rank. Corporals do loose the sham shield but they instead gain "middle child syndrome" to replace it. Too big to sham with the boys, to junior to hang with the real NCO's.


jordanstall09

Ironically, I'm a SPC working on getting a BLC slot. How am I supposed to be a CPL when I'm the lowest ranking soldier in my entire division?


Shakey_J_Fox

You mean to tell me that you’re in a division size element and there are no e1-e3s? Also, you just wear the rank. If you’re the lowest ranking person corporal wont matter, it won’t matter for a lot of folks across the army, especially in low density MOS’s. They will still have the same responsibilities as they had before just get caked something different and pull more duty.


jordanstall09

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. I work in a BDE S1 and there's no E1-E3 at all. Fair, I figured they just wanted everyone to make CPL for leadership building.


Shakey_J_Fox

What I mean is you can’t possibly be the lowest ranking person in a whole division. Divisions are several brigades together. If you’re the lowest ranking person in your section than that can be pretty normal even at senior ranks in some sections. I’ve known E8s who were the lowest ranking person in their sections. Just know your job, pull your weight, and get the mission done. As far as being in a leadership position, you won’t always get that even at higher ranks. My last unit was a detachment of almost all NCOs and officers. I didn’t rate or lead anyone for seven years. Now I do rate and lead 20 individuals, you kind of just fall back into a rhythm.


jordanstall09

I know what you meant, and yes I'm the lowest ranking in my division. I manage a PERSTAT for 3 brigades, including all the internal branches of each lol, so yes, I am the lowest ranking in the division. I'm also an E4 slotted in an E6 role. Yeah I was just confused on that leadership part since there's nobody under me at all, being in the unique position I'm in.


Shakey_J_Fox

Out of curiosity what division has zero junior enlisted?


jordanstall09

I'm a Specialist, so technically we have junior enlisted. We just don't have E1-E3. I'll message you though.


EnzoLS

So this means that there should be a pay increase other than the e4 pay. Like a small 100 per month boost at a minimum give them what they're due. A specialist should not get the same pay as a corporal. I believe this should be true for all ranks such as msg and 1sg


MattTheAccountant

For barracks soldiers it is at least an increase in living conditions. CPLs get their own rooms.


EnzoLS

That's good. As long as it's consistent across the army that would be great.


WeepingAngelTears

We have SGTs living with E1s in good old 1BCT 82nd.


spanish4dummies

Give 100 Take back 99 and 1


ControlSubstantial66

They should bring back technical sgts back.


Y2kWasLit

*laughs in DD-214*


JayStew206

Was a corporal for a year and it was the fucking worse.


RM12B

Haha that’s a good one


JRey259

Call me crazy....but hear me out: I think PV2 or "Private 2" is a ridiculous rank. Let's streamline it more like the Marines, make PFC the new E-2 and and SPC the new E-3. I'm not sure how the minor details would workout but I would be just fine with a way where every soldier realistically has a chance to be a CPL and at least "try leadership on". I think we've all encountered junior leaders who were surprisingly good at what they did and they didn't even realize it until thrown into the position. But if they aren't, the damage is pretty localized and there's typically a SGT/SSG who can get things back on track. So for E-3 to E-4 a MOS Proficiency Test just like the Navy, but it doesn't come from HRC(who I personally feel are clueless) but comes from Branch and must be reviewed or updated every 3 years. That way the newly promoted CPL is at least competent in the job. The test will be administered by the NCOA on post. Those without NCOAs(Looking at you Fort Riley), Branch can assign SFCs an ASI or something to where they would be authorized to administer it, kinda like when they did for SFCs to do BLC virtually this past year. Probably would give some of those ol farts at BDE and DIV reason to escape their little cubicles and connect with the force for a change, we know how out of touch they can be. Let SGT be the gate for those who really want to stay in and are good at what they do, both technically and tactically. CPLs are technically "getting paid" for their role and SPCs(new E-3) who decide they don't want to go through all that can just be politely shown the door at the end of their enlistment. Quite frankly, any Joe who shied away from taking a simple test on their MOS or who struggled to pass it is probably someone you don't want to keep around anyway.


GlockHardRock

This is assuming you’re promoted on proficiency, which we’re not. We are promoted for MTOE/slotting needs and rank requirements for paperwork.


JRey259

My proposal was purely from E-3 to E-4. I think some technical proficiency requirement somewhere within the Army promotion system should be required at some point.


GlockHardRock

I think it should be similar to the Navy’s system. Take a proficiency test, paperwork and physical annually to compete against your MOS for promotion. Medics could do basic Pharmacy/Charting/Theoretical medicine (if x happens what do you do). Physical: Full CCA and Head to toe clinical examination. Infantry: read one page of a Harry Potter book Physical: Sweep the motorpool the fastest


coopertrooper2017

So I already got fucked once because the 88th fucked up the PPRL, so I got kicked from my BLC, but now I'm getting doubled fucked because now my BLC isn't until November. Great, nothing like taking the big green weenie of the Army.


LordTiddlypusch

Fantastic. I can't wait to be forced to be a Corporal for an undetermined amount of time, after 4 years of waiting for near maxed out points to drop, only for them to finally go down right as they announce this.


Solidux

We had a 91D make E7 in 7 and a half years. Got out as E7 on her first contract.


ptowndavid

So what are you going to do with a glut of junior NCOs? It’s already the worse rank in the army. Now they are making it shittier.


nateman_doo

I really wish the Army brought back the specialist series ranks. Like I had some exceptionally technical E7's who were not real leadership material, but deserve to be paid well and hold the E7 position. These ranks can alleviate the "burden" of command for some enlisted in technical fields who just wanna tech out.