T O P

So I did a commission for a guy who said $350 (AUD) for this entire army to be painted within a week was too expensive. I am still yet to do the bases. Am I wrong or a really bad painter?

So I did a commission for a guy who said $350 (AUD) for this entire army to be painted within a week was too expensive. I am still yet to do the bases. Am I wrong or a really bad painter?

Countmein79

Tell him to fuck off mate.


edmc78

Yeah this.


Mimical

OP: $350 within 1 week. At 40 hours of painting you are looking at 8.75 an hour. If you took 60 hours that's shy of 6 an hour. How much paint did you use? Were you able to keep all your brushes in good condition? How many resources did this cast you? Take that off and it's a bit less. How much time did you spend not doing other more lucrative asks? That's lost opportunity. If someone wants an entire army painted for 350 then THEY need to adjust their expectations of what it takes to do 30+ models in a week. But YOU need to be straight when it comes to what you can do. I'll be blunt, the first error was agreeing to 350 for the army in a week. That's a ton of mini's in a short timeframe for not a whole lot.


goozihammer

350 aussie dollars, thats like what? 180 freedom dollars? 160€ - tell him to fuck off


Sudden_Tea_2422

Lmao freedom dollars


The-Trout-Spinner

isn’t this post him having done the commission already?


Comrade_Ziggy

You can complete a transaction then tell them to fuck off, lmao.


The-Trout-Spinner

dude won’t care though, he will have just got an entire army painted for mega cheap. you’re meant to tell them to fuck off before surely


Comrade_Ziggy

It's true, absolutely, but unless OP is a chronomancer that isn't going to happen.


HoeWrangler5000

Canadian here. yea fuck right off with that attitude towards quality work


Jps_miniatures

As a commission painter myself you are not wrong and definitely not a bad painter! Most people who don’t paint don’t understand how hard and long it takes to do quality work! $350 $250ish USD) for 40+ models is not too expensive. Heck it’s way to cheap! My recommendation to you and something I learned the hard way is stick to your guns or don’t take the commission. Easier said than done but you’ll win out in the long run! I love commission work and it’s because I’m careful about my projects and work at my rate and my time. The army looks great though! You are doing an awesome job! Keep up the great work!


rogue_noob

I was going to say, getting my army painted to that level for that price, I'm almost tempted to send it from Canada! It's super cheap


ManyApplePies

All that painting for like 256 usd is a fucking steal. That guy missed out on a really good deal.


Jps_miniatures

I think the Necron army pictured is the commission.


ManyApplePies

So you’re saying that the commission included the assembling as well?


Nailbrain

Not necessarily, I know a commission painter and most of the time people ship them prebuilt un-primed minis and she'll paint them up and send them back. If it's cheaper than shipping for the client or they're feeling lazy, she offers to go buy and build the models for an additional cost and they'll transfer the extra with the money for the minis.


FireFangs

Does she include packaging in the costs? Because I feel it should be included considering painted minis require far more protection than unprimed ones.


Nailbrain

Yeah definitely, she always puts +p&p on her prices and includes it in the quote when people enquire, because then she knows where they'd be going and packing up a single character mini is vastly different to a tank or a couple of squads.


Applesauce_Magician

Do you mind if I ask about how you've determined your rates? I just got commissioned for the first time


bertcrumbs

I’ve never got commissioned but if I did I would decide what I would want to pay myself hourly and multiply that by the estimated time it would take for me to do the job for starters. Add in money for the paint, brushes, etc and that might get you in the ball park. Your time is valuable don’t sell yourself short even if you enjoy the work.


cat_vs_laptop

I was always told to add 10% for wear and tear on tools and to cover all the little bits you don’t think of charging for.


Jihad_Alot

As someone who works in contracting. Do the following Show them a breakdown of the prices with the following 1. Material cost including paints etc 2. Hourly rate to design and finish the task (so for example $20.00 an hour for X hours) 3. Any additional costs such as shipping and handling/any special accommodations like building the actual pieces Take the total price and list it as subtotal. Multiply it by 10% for overhead (to cover yourself in case it takes longer) Multiply that by 10% and label it as “profit” When customers get to see an actual breakdown of the material/labor required to complete the project, they will be much more understanding in accepting a price, while also giving them the safety of knowing they are getting ripped off if the numbers don’t add up. Let them know clearly the deadline you are working by and you can even send them updated snapshots at certain completion steps to get their input if necessary (that way they are understanding the schedule)


Crownlol

This is an absolutely fair way to generate a pricing model in a vacuum (with a captive audience), but you should be comparing your rate with market rates if you want to actually win business. ​ I usually recommend the Three Point pricing/estimation model. Find High, Average, and Low prices of competitors, and use the following formula: 1H + 3A +1L /5. That'll give you a weighted average for the market and you can adjust your prices accordingly. This ensures that you're not pricing yourself out of the market. ​ Additionally, you should never be labeling "profit" or upcharge to your customer. Your margin is determined by your cost efficiency based on the rates you've already given. You'd get laughed at in *any* industry for adding profit as a line item. ​ So while I completely agree with your approach for providing itemized quotes, your general approach to market competitiveness has some huge gaps.


ExcitingJeff

I’ve processed a lot of government contracts and 10% “profit” is standard. It’s definitely not normal in the (wildly undercompensated) commission painting market, but it’s a thing elsewhere.


Crownlol

I've also processed many government (and private industry) contracts and can tell you with certainty that building margin is *exclusive* to government contracts. Thus, they're the exception, not the rule. We're actually restricted by law from turning profit on government contracts (varies by industry, though). ​ I'm not commenting on whether or not the commission painting market is fairly compensated, just on proper pricing strategy in a competitive market regardless of industry.


Priff

Remember taxes. Work is work and you need to be prepared to pay taxes for it. If you do it once a year or something you can probably leave it. But if you want to do it more often you have to run it as a proper business.


aBitToTheLeft

Create a scale of work. Come up with 3 or more types of painting jobs that you're comfortable with. Judge yourself on efficiency and quality. Then give them rates based on your scale. Never sell yourself by the hour. Your rates are take it or leave it. For example I have. Table top battle ready: Which is a basic quality job mostly done with an air brush and or dry brushing. Only big detail covered. Battle worn: The basic paint job done with more layers and textures. Wet blended base coat, a basic layering for highlight and lining for shadow. For the emperor's eyes: The full work. Smooth transitioning in colors, hitting all details, edge high lights, lined shadows, extra custom details hand painted. Lots of layers. Choices on custom basing. Open to extra customization by the client. Aka some of your best work. The last scale isn't generally for a full army. It generally demands a high premium. I charge about double the models msrp value and then some.


Nytherion

20 years ago (when a box of 5 terminators was only $25-30) for "battle ready" it was typically 50% of the cost of the models, 100% for display quality, and (if you were good enough) 300% for "Heavy Metal" (competion-winning) quality work. at least, thats the pay scale a friend used from about '95 to '02ish, and he had a few models featured in White Dwarf at the time. sadly the cost of the models themselves has skyrocketed over the years, and a lot of people don't want to buy a unit of 5 for $60, then pay another $60+ for the paintjob.


Applesauce_Magician

Thank you for breaking down the three levels (with numbers)!


ericvulgaris

Take what you think you're worth hourly and triple it. Deliver the quote and you're good to go. 3:1 is the minimum ratio any contractor/commissioner should work for. You're a business with taxes, supplies, and expenses as well, after all. Not just labor.


throwaway1828382

Came here to say exactly the same thing!


ArtofBlake

Never let yourself be bullied by customers. “The customer is always right” is utter bullshit. You charge what you want for the work, and that is the bottom line.


cmitch3087

"The customer is always right when it comes to style and taste." That is the whole qoute. It was originally coined as a sales to tactic to blow smoke up a customer's ass to get them buy something even if you thought it was terrible on them. The saying is not supposed to apply to running your business. In this case the customer is always right in so far that they want black and gold robot boys. The rest is ridiculous.


ArtofBlake

You’re absolutely right. The saying is so profoundly abused by customers to insist on their own pricing, refunds, etc. I was a freelancer for some time and put up with way too much of that. As soon as I priced higher and stuck with those high prices, the quality of my customers increased dramatically, and the bullshit virtually ended.


cmitch3087

I'm in the same boat. I run a home improvement company and my prices are not the cheapest and there plenty of projects and customers that I just won't take.


Rockitnick

I believe you're looking for, "Fuck you, pay me."


Charming-Row-3529

By the way there’s also a silent king, 5 death marks, lych guard a skorpekh lord and another regular lord included for this. 🙃


BadSandbox

You could show examples with a time table, like this is a model I spent 2 hours on and this is a model I spent 4 hours on etc…. This both gives them an idea of how much quality they want and also gives a rough estimate of cost (obviously I’m charging at minimum, minimum wage.) Sometimes their expectations won’t match up with your value and that’s alright. I was that guy like 10-15 years ago. Didn’t feel like painting, got some stuff commissioned and was extremely disappointed. To me it felt like “I could do that” which made me feel like it was a waste of money. How dumb we are when we are young…. Now that I “do that” I totally get it. They aren’t paying you to give them painted models, they are paying you to paint the models. The process matters and if they can get the same quality cheaper I’d tell them to go with that artist 100%. One thing I would suggest is that you take deposits (I usually do the cost of the commission - the value of the models on eBay) so if I’m stuck with a painted army I can still make my money back relatively quickly as I’ll have the deposit + the models. Although make sure to check the laws in your area, in some cases you will have to ignore the cost of the models and take a 50% deposit (in some places you are required to hold items for x months before you can claim ownership due to missing payment) so you won’t be able to sell them and therefore can’t count them as a deposit. Other than that, work on time saving techniques and don’t slack on improving your work space. I moved my airbrush to a better spot and found I was able to get stuff done 10-20% faster without changing my actual paint process. Whoever’s necrons those are is getting an amazing deal, show them this thread if they don’t believe you. Well done!


RuneScriber

My god man your a machine (or necron) at painting


Charming-Row-3529

Lmao 😂


sh4d0ww01f

'Where's the middle of the income distribution? According to the ATO, if you earned between $59,538 and $60,432 you're right in the middle.' 'The average weekly earnings for full-time workers in Australia is AU$1,713 (or AU$89,122 per year), according to the latest figures from the Australian Bureau of Statistics (November 2020).' Pick a value in between or above that you are comfortable living with. Divide it by (52-holiday weeks that are custom in Australia). Add material expanses. Then you have your weekly charge rate. Everything else is underpaying yourself. And you are worth way more then the lousy 350 bucks this guy wants to pay you. And especially head the advice with the three different quality levels from u/aBitToTheLeft . That's sounds like a great way to go. This Necron paintjob is stellar. The glowing effect from within is so good. Know your worth! If you can't find work for your wanted price, than you can go down by a 2k a year each time and try again, until you find enough. But it shouldn't have be under the poverty line.


ephoenix99

You're a phenomenal painter and I think your client clearly doesn't understand the value of that much painting in a week. I'd expect a job of that quality and size, in addition to being a rush job, to be considerably more money (and deservedly so).


Charming-Row-3529

Thanks! Glad to know I’m not crazy!


Sevv2102

You could literally resell that army for 2-3x more than what he thinks is too expensive. Show him a “affordable paint job” next to this.


ephoenix99

You could probably turn around and sell this army on eBay for a lot more (like $1000, just throwing a number out there) given the quality and size of the army.


Charming-Row-3529

Would people actually buy this on EBay?


NotInsane_Yet

As long as you are patient then yes. I have sold a few and so have people that I know. It won't sell quickly and may even take a few months. Top tournament or brand new armies sell faster.


ephoenix99

I could see it selling for considerably more than $350. I’m admittedly not an expert at selling painted armies online, but I know people that have bought armies for $800-1200 USD.


f3ydr4uth4

Yes definitely. In the early 2000s I was young teen and my first little business was buying models I knew were popular and painting them. I turned my pocket money into a decent little nest egg and it funded several massive armies I could never have afforded being a kid in a lower middle class home.


FGustoh

There is a huge market for pre painted minis on ebay. There are shops selling units and figures with much lower quality than this making money.


NoHallett

Absolutely doable, happy to answer questions if you want to DM me!


Tronbronson

Ya not crazy looks like a steal for that many models and quality. Especially in dollarydooos


silvershooter007

Still taking commissions?


NoHallett

I regularly sell lots on eBay - this would sell easily, but faster and for more if you're willing to sell the units separately, and might get stuck with some of the smaller units *Oops, meant to reply to OP!


veritas723

First clue you know your client is trash. Is when they argue on pricing. If you had said $3500. Maybe that’s too much. But that’s not even $10 per model if it’s 40+ models for $350. Never chase the bottom when doing artwork. Broke ass motherfuckers will always want to exploit you. Unless you’re painting purely for fun. Set the price you want to work for


Marksman81

You are underselling yourself by a massive way. These look fantastic, and your client is clearly a bit clueless.


Prestigious_Orca

Yeah I've seen armies of this quality done for over 1000 dollars, and have it take several months. Your client is an idiot.


Sleepinismy9to5

You could easily get 1000 for all that even more for the time crunch


Comrade_Ziggy

To be honest, you got scammed. Your painting isn't the most amazing on this sub, but it's quite good and certainly better than your client can do. Don't let other pro painters skew your perception of your own work. You should probably charge $25-$35/hr, by my ignorant estimation. So did all of this take you 10-15 hours? My guess is no, it will take quite a lot longer than that. Your client is a stingy prick, if he doesn't want to pay hundreds of dollars he doesn't want his army painted by \*anyone\* doing decent work. Simple as. Edit: Oh my god I forgot to do currency conversion. You were ROBBED.


Charming-Row-3529

Lmao 😂


NotInsane_Yet

People are cheap and often try to low ball commission painters. My minimum charge is the retail price of the box. For a rush job it goes up a lot. $350 AUS is an insane price to paint that. I charged more then that for just belakor and that was a one day paint job.


Charming-Row-3529

Whaaaaat 😱 Got pics of Belakor?


NotInsane_Yet

Sadly they went with my old phone. There was a big premium because I did it on the release weekend and I was matching a chaos army I had previously sold him. Overall it was $400 USD for the model, assembly, painting, and shipping.


ninjaoftheworld

Make sure you get paid in full before giving him any of these back, worst case he stiffs you and you reprime them all before returning them. Hopefully it won’t come to that but it’s definitely sounding like he’s going to try and “renegotiate” and it looks to me like you’ve done an exceptional job at about half what he *should* be paying.


FireFangs

Considering that some people ask for 250$ for a single unit painted worse than this, that your paint job is excellent, that the deadline is quite short for a full army, and that he doesn't want to make the effort to paint it himself.... I'm gonna be blunt and say he's kind of an idiot. That's worth 350$ and more.


rolldamnhawkeyes

Man tell that loser to go paint it himself then. Can’t stand ppl that do shit like this. Not painting your own minis is one thing but this is just….ugh Also you are quite good! I really like the lighting effects in the crevices


vectorzeros

If you painted all that for 350 for me. I would feel like I ripped you off. Guy is an asshat.


RWJP

Whether it's too expensive or not really depends on how many hours you put in. According to Google the minimum wage is Australia is $20.33 per hour, so at $350 total, you would need to have completed all of that painting work in a maximum of 17 hours. If you spent more than 17 hours working on them then you earned less than the legal minimum wage by charging $350. (Also, situations like this are why commission painters usually ask for a large deposit (often 50%) up front.)


Charming-Row-3529

I spent about 9 hours a day for 5 days. 🙃


RWJP

Well, in that case then, you're MASSIVELY under charging for your work. $350 for 45 hours of work would mean you earned about $7.77 per hour for your work, a little over a third of the legal minimum wage.


Wolfgang_Archimedes

Lol still above minimum wage in America (well I don’t actually know the conversion sooooo)


Chicero

5.69 Usd, but honestly I’m surprised your joke wasnt more accurate.


mannotron

Way too low a price mate. I wouldn't want to work for less than $200/day (AUD), particularly if that work was also my hobby. If you look at the prices for some of the bigger commission studios you'll very quickly see that it's tiered depending on quality, and those rates will be very much dependent on the hours put in. I've seen single character commissions at display quality going for twice what you've charged here. Bottom line: don't sell yourself short, don't accept jobs that pay shit rates, and don't burn yourself out with unrealistic deadlines unless you're charging more for the overtime.


Charming-Row-3529

And that’s only so far. 😬


ZedekiahCromwell

You're massively undervaluing your time, friend. Consider if you were to make this a full-time job without a single week off. So 52 weeks of what you've done so far. $350*52=$18200, pretax. That's literally below the poverty line.


Tabletop_Tendencies

That’s like 250 here in the states and for the same models, im at least twice that. Not sure if you agreed on that price before or after the work was done, but in the future agree on it before hand. In writing if you can.


SpeakerBoth435

$360 for all of that painted within a week? Not only is it quality, it's a steal of a deal. If anything he should be saying that it should be much higher from what you are giving him.


Chicero

I’m guessing that was all you did work wise that week, so for calculations sake lets say 40 hrs.(think like you’re salary) That means your commission would equate to $8.75 aud an hour. That’s less than half minimum wage from what I’m seeing for australia. There’s a reason artist do, and should, charge high prices.


IcarianSkies

Client is trying to rip you off. $350 AUD is cheap for this good of a paint job on that many and those particular models.


aiyo-la

I would always ask myself "will I be happy to paint for this price or would I rather not?" Trust your gut. Your time is valuable.


Leighmer

Yeah, $350 is too cheap and the paint work is really decent for that. It’s like $3-4 a model which is really cheap for him. I hope he tips or at least pays for the paints as well.


osunightfall

That’s a ridiculously low amount.


LouisVuittonLeghost

No man not at all I would say this is a proper table top standard. And very well done for the some of 350. Can I ask if this is the clients first venture into warhammer? Because damn man I don’t mean to be rude but 350 for all this is cheap af. That’s why I havNt bothered trying to venture into the world of commission work for the time it takes me to churn a totally done model out at 350 I’d be losing money. I guess that’s where you need to find that happy medium abd kinda break it down on how long you can spend on each model to make it worth youre while. Do you mind me asking how long roughly you’ve spent on the average model here? I understand that larger models take more time. God damn man I counted roughly 35 models? That’s $10 a model 🤢🤢 lol Excuse my French but you’ve done a fucken stellar job at 10 bucks a pop. There’s no way anyone in there right mind could expect any more then what you’ve done. But if I offered someone 10$ a model over 35 models, I wouldn’t even have close to this expectation. Kudos brother


Ginno_the_Seer

You might offer to strip the paint if they dont want to pay for your service.


InfernalDragoon

Looks great, and they're nuts if they think that they'll find a better deal for what they're asking for. Tell em to point you to someone else who will provide similar quality within a week for less cost, then sit back and wait for them to realize how lucky they are.


Gravelemming472

350 AUD *TOO MUCH?* *w h a t* This is amazing, 350 AUD is a steal, especially within A WEEK


kazog

Lol that client is a cheap ass impatient mo fo. Awesome job for a very low price.


KetememeDream

Fuck him, if he refuses to pay then it's his loss


ManOfThousandHobbies

Only 350 AUD for an army with such a quality paintjob?? I would say you're extremely cheap for your skill level!


Flaccid-Reflex

That’s really fucking good for the price. Got damn


averageshmoejoe

As others have said you waaay undersold your work (based off the numbers someone else gave, you'd need to charge closer to a grand for the hours you put in to hit Aus minimum wage). I'd have charged even more for the rush deadline tbh, at least by Canadas standards, you put in 5hrs overtime too (40hr work week) so would have gotten 1.5 time. For what it's worth, I'd have negotiated different rates for each group of models, I'm not putting the same effort into warriors and mass infantry as I am characters or vehicles. I wouldn't have even accepted the Sereptekh construct as part of this commission. That beast is it's own thing that I would not want competing for time


Dndoldnew

He's only a cheap ass motherfucker, try not to be taken advantage off. Stay cool, your job has value. He's right about 350 being wrong tho, ask 1000.


obbob

To be frank: in terms of individual model paint job quality, this is on the lower end of commission work quality. With that said, that is a crazy amount of models. You undercharged big time simply due to the amount of models in the job, your customer has no idea how much this time is worth. Unfortunately warhammer hobbiests are often stingy.


Deserterdragon

Highly recommend people reading this thread paint more black and gold models, just a black primed model with gold highlights immediately looks amazing.


Charming-Row-3529

Rip my feelings. 🙃 But thanks for the honesty 🤣


fued

I mean you spent far less than an hour per model, i imagine if you spent triple the amount like a high quality commision they would look amazing


CuppaFalcon

I've never ordered a commission, but as a fellow Aussie, I'd be stoked for that price and that time frame. I would've expected it to cost more and take much longer.


Flak_Knight

I mean at some point commission painters should probably divide hours spent by dollars earned before they price these things. Assuming you could do all this in 20 hours, you still only made 17$ an hour, minus paints, other supplies and wear your probably looking at $14/hr. And guessing it's probably more hours than that...


Charming-Row-3529

I mean I’m fine to do $350 total even if it was 40+ hours but it’s just that he’s complaining about how expensive it is and this is one of my first commissions so I’m a little insecure I guess. 🤣 I may have to call the inquisition.


LangundSchwarz

May I ask if he supplied you with the models? If yes, you could buy the same models, give them back to him and sell the painted army for around 1000 on ebay.


Mystix9

This!


Rookie3rror

The ability to turn around that volume of models at a quality acceptable for a tournament in a week is worth drastically more than that


VimesBootTheory

Agreed. Honestly just the upcharge for it having that fast a turn around should be about $150-350 on its own, not counting the normal cost painting the minis. If the painter has to sacrifice their whole week to get the project done they should making a hell of a lot more than $7/hr.


melancholyink

Definitely above and beyond for $350 in a week. Hobbies, crafts and art are usually under valued by both the client and the artist. I think they should be happy at the deal they got and you should price higher and not worry about what the client thinks your time and skill is worth.


Stealthyfisch

I think you know, rightfully, that you’re not a bad painter at all- quite the opposite! But also fuck that guy. assuming the 350 Aussie dollars is just for the paint job, this is mad underpriced, ESPECIALLY for a rush job. This is easily a 500USD (683AUD) paint job for a whole army if it took several weeks, 750USD easily for 40+ models in a week.


Sanguiniutron

Dude I've seen people selling a painted mortarion for 500 bucks. For this work you should be paid more than that for sure.


Woden888

If he wants them done better he can do them himself lol


Stretch5678

He's an idiot.


Lord-Riptide

My man you're FAR from being a bad painter. They look great, and your client does no know the value of work. I'm also painting an entire army for a guy (somewhere around 2k space marines) for a similar price, but I've been working on it for 2-3 months, and while he's not super stingy, he constantly asks for updates.


justa-necron-warrior

Your a great painter and don't let anyone tell you different. Also any tips for painting necrons?


Charming-Row-3529

If you’re painting inside the lines like I have, listen to some Christopher Hitchins, Richard Dawkins and Aron Ra because you’re in for one hella long painting session. 😂🤣


NeonArlecchino

Genghis Khan would gut the guy for trying to screw an artist out of their hard work. He literally outlawed offering exposure to artists in exchange for work as their sweat and contributions to society are just as important and worthy of payment as a farmer's. He would be on your side here so you find a way to get appropriately paid!


bjasonm87

Looks like everyone is already backing you up, so I’ll jump in and just say that these look fantastic. Well worth the money 👍


Charming-Row-3529

Thanks 😄


Rtwo28

350 is undervaluing your work and time, that dude doesn't know what effort that level of painting takes(I can't do that level of painting, I'm just saying this because I know someone who paints at your level)


NiceGuyNero

Nah. This is a fucking sick paint job. EASILY worth the price.


sexualsubmarine

That guy is so far out of line on prices, never doubt your own worth!


grimcoyote

$350 for a WEEK turnaround? Hell to the no that's not reasonable, if anything you should charge MORE for that kind of turnaround especially for this number of figures. You are providing a skill to someone who for whatever reason, either time or lack of ability on his end, is relying on you. A tight deadline means a jacked up price because now for that week this is your life if you mean to keep to that schedule. If that's too high for his taste he can paint them himself.


Shanghai_Banjo

Not a bad painter. Yes, It's not quite to the standard I would expect from a Pro commission painter, but I would pay a lot more money and allow a lot more time to have an entire army painted by a pro.


Charming-Row-3529

I’ll admit it’s not the greatest paint job, sure it looks good but to be fair I only had a week. 🤣


Shanghai_Banjo

> I only had a week. Exactly my point. That's really good for a weeks work. Much better than I could do in a month.


mirkinhat

How much is a decent hourly rate for anyone who knows what they're doing? $25 an hour? $30 an hour? More? If you paint 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, what is your time worth if that is your income? Does $350 seem fair for a week's work? If that guy doesn't want to pay it, he can do it himself.


Vulcanized-Homeboy

Hey op have you ever stumbled upon r/choosingbeggars ? I think that will explain a lot about your client


ChinookDaddy_CH47

This is why I don’t do commission work. It’s super hard to actually get paid enough to cover the paint, basing supplies, and your time.


bantturkey

Models look great. Buyer can suck a fat one. Throw an expedition charge on that stuff. I’m not made of money or anything but I would understand that if u expect an artist to “rush” work u should be FULLY prepared to pay a decently large increase in cost. The painter has other obligations/ pint jobs/ priorities AND needs time off


FrankDePlank

The client's middle name is probably Karen.


Born-to-meme

Hey OP you got any tips you can share or anywhere to learn some of the techniques you used I am trying to learn how to do better glow effects,


Bleklteg

Man that's a steal, for that kind of time line with the quality you have done is amazing. You should have definitely charged more for your talent. Did you have to put them all together as well?


Charming-Row-3529

Thank goodness I didn’t have to put ALL of them together. Only a few characters.


Taylor_made2

What a striking colour scheme, definitely worth a lot more than $350, and in a week??? Amazing job!


SunSaffron

Looks good to me - and in a week. Guy can sod off


Kiloreas

I'm sitting on 5000 points of SW (roughly) and its taking me on up to three months. So he can go screw himself with a double edged chainsword for all I care, coz for one week, that's beyond impressive. That's absolutely art.


NtCasualG4m3r

Wow, amazing work, and about your client, obviously he doesn't know the difficulty of the creative and artsy work, keep the awesome work


tuigger

That army is super dope and he got a damn good deal!


Feyd-Rautha_

I only hope I can get this good.


mcdonald20

Yea this is way inexpensive for (roughly) 250$ US. This is super nice and if you figure how much it costs per hour of painting you probably shorted yourself. Keep it up and charge more!


NeonWarcry

I haven’t been lucky enough financially to commission someone to do something but my thoughts are you’re paying for someone’s work AND their time. You are underpaid for the level of skill I see displayed here. Really nice work. Your client needs to be respectful of the effort put forth here.


Saturnine333

“That’s like a dollar an hour!” - Napoleon Dynamite


dustham777

This was a great job and the buyer should give you at least a 200 bonus!!


Shivrainthemad

Qu'il aille se faire foutre Que vaya a chingar su madre Fuck with him Mate, that is a very good job, especialy for the dead line and the scale of the project. Put value in your job and don't go cheap. It is a lesson that I have learn teaching french and political sciences.


Rookie3rror

At the absolute minimum you should be charging equal to the value of the minis for a super basic paint job, and that’s without factoring in a one week turnaround. Unfortunately there are some people out there who will go out of their way to exploit artists if they think they can get away with it.


R97R

Did you have to pay for the models as well, or did he buy and assemble them himself and then send them to you to be painted? Either way, that’s absolutely ridiculous on his part, especially considering the standard of painting and the more complex models there. I mean, I can’t paint this well, but I’ve done some pseudo-commissions for friends (so mates rates is in effect), and even then I was offered considerably more per model. On top of that, getting all of this done within a week was a pretty Herculean achievement, especially if commissions aren’t your full-time job. Your Labour and skill here is worth much more than $350AUD.


thatguyiswierd

How many points is that?


Charming-Row-3529

Something like 3000 I think with the new pieces to come too. 😅


thatguyiswierd

He can F off. That’s a lot of points for that price


thatguyiswierd

If you were in the US. I would ask for you to paint my army


Competitive-Ad1999

I love the color and glow… too much black though. Looks unfinished from a distance. Amazing work on the colors though 👍


gadwag

That's a great paintjob, and for that number of models I'd be expecting upwards of $500 even before factoring in how fast you've got them all done. Those TRON-style glows in the grooves can be really fiddly to paint as well, I'm impressed you've smashed out so many of them so cleanly! Did you mask them off or something while putting the black on?


Charming-Row-3529

I didn’t, I would wet the paint to let it run like nuln oil, then wipe away anything that spills before it dried. And any mistakes I covered up with more black/gold.


gadwag

Cheers. I'm sure I'll give the TRON style a go at some point so I'll keep it in mind!


TheAechBomb

I wouldn't pay that much, but I know it's a lot of effort (I have tried painting miniatures before and failed miserably) and I believe it's worth it for quite a few people out there. If he commissioned it he should know what it's going to cost him, and not try and screw you over for your efforts.


RoyalSir

I think the price is fair for the standard of work done here. However, with that time frame, he should keep his mouth shut.


silvershooter007

I will pay you for a paint job OP. DM me haha


FGustoh

OP is under charging if anything. Not gonna get a fully prepped army in a week for that price anywhere.


Parcivaal

I’d hire you to paint all my armies and wouldn’t haggle the price if that’s your quality lol


DJMiPrice

For $350 AUD I would gladly let you paint 40 of my models! I would pay more than that. For the future, Agree upon pricing up front. Negotiate up front based on your previous work. From there the price is the price you agreed upon. Hell do a quick contract.


SirMcNasty

If I wasn’t excited about starting painting then I would totally take that rate. It honestly feels like a bargain 🤷🏻‍♂️. Also big fan of black and orange anything… go beavs!


Flank_Steaks

45 hours at 350 is about $7.78/hr. Not a difficult scheme and you have some skill. I don't know what you think your time is worth I'd charge 2-3x what you charged. The given timeline should add a premium. I would have asked a cool 1k and negotiate from there.


cornellartworks

You did all that in a week? For an entire army painted and based in a week you could be charging triple.


Lord_Toademort

He's underpaying you


Nalr0

Please don’t rob yourself and be sure to ask more in the future. 350 isn’t too much it’s too little!


Inevitable-Badger-28

This is bloody awesome work. Do you mind me asking your paint process and the colours you used I would love to do this on my own necrons.


Onzoku

At that price point I would've asked you to paint my whole backlog. And would've felt guilty about it.


smoking_kilis

....thats less than £200...wtf is wrong with that person the fucking models would cost more never mind building and painting. Love the colour choices just a shame i don't like necrons that much (and I believe shipping would be more than what your asking for the commission in the first place)


Rowdycc

I’d expect to pay double that.


DiabeticGnar386

If it’s too expensive, paint it yourself. 🤷🏼‍♂️ Tell him his clown shoes are untied.


zdesert

just becuase a paint job is simple does not make it less worthy. its consistent across all the army and it looks good. the glowing bits stand out super well against the black and the army looks badass from a distance becuase of it. well done. now... if i am being picky.... would i be happy to have it as my army? yes. would i pay for this paint job/scheme... no. but would i expect more than this in a week? not at all. would i pay 350 for this quality of paint job, ya. (but I expect it to take much longer than a week, and i would happily pay more for better) the models lack alot of the detail work that i would expect from a commission, there is alot of matt black that appears to have had nothing more than a light drybrush. there is a lack of contrast in the black areas and a bunch of details are a bit Samey and lack character. its obvious that the aspects of a paint job that take the most time have been left off which makes sense.... it was a week long project. but if i paid for a commission i would be sad if the models looked like they were still a step or two past being primed black. there is apoint when painting where doing more work has less and less of an effect on the look of the models. the point of diminishing returns. i dont think this paint job is close to that point yet. some quick edge highlights in specific places, some more drybrushing with some different colors/shades just for some variation. some simple accents and scuffs on large pannels ect. all pretty low effort, high impact steps that feel skipped. ALL THAT SAID. the army looks good, and all my quibbles aside i cant belive you are doing a paint job **AND THE BASEING!?!?!** for only 350. that is beyond. no matter what i think of the paint job, getting the army based as well is a steal. u bin robbed son. set the price first next time and get paid up front


Melwasul16

Magnificent. And you inspire me for my Necrons force to be gold and black. Reverse color scheme.


Gagulta

It's not too cheap at all. Ask yourself how many hours you put into this, then divide that $350 per hour. That doesn't even factor in material costs.


NinjaGrimlock

£185? For all that work? Too expensive? I'll have what he's smoking...


Metaldevil666

I'd say let the bases be. You've already put in WAAAAAY more work than 350 dollarydoos are worth!


meatshield_minis

As a person whom does commissions and is in the process of building my rep up, let me give you a wee bit of background. I started out more or less unintentionally. Back in my first stint of 40k, my painting skills were pretty meh at best, and the 'thin your paints' meme at worst. However, I returned to the hobby three years ago to find that, for what ever reason, my renewed attempt after nearly ten years of absence was quite decent. As I started to work on my ability through experimentation and brushing up on technique through videos (Bless you, Duncan Rhodes), my friends from our regular 40k games took notice. Before, we did series of painting weekends to have more excuses to hang out and to get our models tabletop ready. Yet they soon gave up since they felt down about their painting; I think many of us are struck with that at one point or another, and they never left it. :( Anyway! It was during one of our 40k match get togethers that I busted out my newly painted Cawl model which I was quite proud of. Upon seeing it, one of my friends asked if I would paint his Hellhound for him in exchange for 200 SEK. Over time, this expanded to four Leman Russ tanks and a Helhound. And from there, I would regularly undertake favor pieces for them, with an occasional gift of reimbursement. Now, I never fathomed that anyone would pay me for painting minis, but what I produced seemed to bring the interest of some. This, in turn, put me on a path where I have been building up my rep, my abilities, and fundamentally, how to operate as a commission painter. It is not as easy thing to do, be it a side hustle or a sustainable income, and every instance of it is a learning experience. So, I am going to make a few points (forgive me for being laborious, my fellows): \-Never doubt yourself and your talents: I have seen far too often examples of people succumbing to doubt surrounding their painting skills, particularly if they are good enough in the context of paid services. I am not one to blow smoke up anyone's ass, but you are a spiffing painter, and I raise my cup of tea to you in salute. As a piece of advice, I would say go back and look at your earliest attempts, and compare it to now. Whenever you are down and unsure, do that. It will help. \-It is YOUR time they are buying: I think a good soul touched on a good point earlier that people like the one expecting you to paint within the cited parameters doesn't have the slightest clue about painting minis and the effort that goes into it. In particular, they can't, or won't, grasp that they are taking away your time in exchange; that portion if time in and of itself being considerable in amount and rather valuable. Going forward, always keep in mind that they are buying YOUR time as much as they are buying your talent. They are looking to escape the labour, the stress, and the duration. All of which is YOUR TIME. So, never shrink from that, use it, and never let a potential client rob you of it. Furthermore; the chap whom is demanding that is utterly unrealistic and renting you at far too cheap a price. I cannot help but think that some blame rest upon the shoulders of some big name YouTube mini painters when it comes to setting expectations about time. Don't get me wrong, I acknowledge their talent, that they sometimes do them for charity, and to see if they can. However, they have done them so much and so prominently that they have birthed something of a 'Matt Mercer Effect' in mini painting. People see those "Watch me paint an army or Start Collecting box in 24 hours/4days/ a week etc, and then adopt a notion that it's the standard. .I had a potential client want me to paint 20 Grey Knights Interceptors at tabletop plus standard. He tried to argue down my price by trying to use Siegestudios as an example of their work being better and more established. When he was told an time estimate of two to three weeks, he refused to accept it because he has games every Wednesday, and needed them done before that. .A potential client told me that I could easily paint ten kitbashed chaos terminators in 9 hours, at tabletop plus standard, when he was told the price of the job. His reasoning was that my price was too high to justify something that could be done in 9 hours. All in all, these examples are brought up to enhance the point that certain people have a non-viable set of expectations, and can be proper cunts about it. Don't let it set doubt in your mind about your talents, and certainly don't let it force you to take deplorably low amounts of payment for that size of work. Because that proposition is cheaper than my mother at gold card hooker night.


Tanagriel

**TQP** Time, Quality, Price – Any creative artwork job or nearly any hire job/service must consider these points. – If you want something fast at a low price you can not expect high quality. – If you want something of high quality at a low price then you can not expect fast delivery. – If you want high quality and fast delivery, you can not expect a low price.... thus in some scenarios, it is impossible to deliver high-quality fast – take e.g Photorealistic 3D, just the rending time will usually set a limit to how fast it can be delivered. \_ That said it is always preferable to have an approximately set, and to that agreed price for a job task, even if the price will differ at the final outcome there are usually and actual reasons for such changes, which should lead to a fair discussion of the price or even better if something change along the way the service provider can tell the customer that the price will change. Let's say a customer changes his or her mind and wants a third color added to the scheme of the army, or he or she wants it earlier delivered than the agreed deadline. \_ 350 AUD does not sound wrong or off for a whole army to be painted in a week, but I am not in the business and I have difficulty judging the paintwork on this army – I see a lot of black though many details look great. A usually freelance salary in creative business would be between 200-550 USD per day or about 8 hours of work per day, and on a tight deadline with concentrated work effort. If you used 6-8 hours of actual hobby/paintwork a day on this army, then the 350 AUD is too little. \_ But there are always people who get a kick out of a negotiation, and in some cases, they should just be dealt with using arguments to portray their lack of knowledge to the subject - there is a reason to hire people, the main reason being that you can not do it yourself, the 2nd reason is that you do not have time to do it yourself. If the third reason is that they can't be bothered doing it themself thus they have no money issues, then they should just be happy customers and pay up with a smile. And in case they have money issues, then they should not hire someone to do what they can do themself. Also sometimes one does not pay for the actual hours, but mainly for the experience and or skill level, and sometimes payment can be an investment in talent.


ssssumo

The obvious way of deciding on price is $/hour but there's a common meme amongst tech contractors that basically boils down to the client is paying for the years of experience not the hours of work. If you're great at the job and produce high quality work in 2 hours, it doesn't mean you should be paid less than someone who takes 20 hours to do it to the same quality.


Significant_Airline

You are massively undercharging. £185 for a whole army is nothing. A certain commission company wanted about £800 to paint Kaldor Draigo to their “gold standard”.


kenkanobi

I've seen some of the bigger models, fully painted, selling on their own for about 150 to 200 quid. You've done beautiful work. I think this is worth a heck of a lot more. I love the scheme and the lines are clean as hell


JDStark7

You undervalued yourself, badly. Like a true artist.


shitsnapalm

Creatives are chronically underpaid and undervalued. Know your worth and don’t forget to double check what you’re actually being paid per hour after subtracting materials. I’ve seen too many creators working for less than minimum wage after accounting for materials.


Baldemyr

It's actually why I stopped doing art. A piece would take me 24 hours to complete....and a guy would offer 30 bucks for it https://www.deviantart.com/baldemyr/art/Alexander-the-Grey-V2-24826107 30 bucks was all he would pay. I never did it for the cash but that ended me. BTW I do love your paintjobs


MidgeoneonPidgeon

I'm gonna steal this color code cuz it looks amazing


random_guru27

Bro hell no. As a commission painter myself that wouldn't cover half of what's up there. I would explain to the customer that you need to increase the price, or they can go kick rocks. Take a look at https://www.denofimagination.com/ for a fairly good price point that you can go low end if that makes you more comfortable with.


dirtsequence

You're getting hosed. Tell the guy to paint his own shit.


TheLostViking98

You certainly aren't a bad painter, however if the customer chose the colour scheme for the whole army I have to say it's quite simplistic which is probably why he wanted a low price for the whole thing. Even looking through the pictures it's hard to distinguish individual features outside of the glowing orange bits, the rest - particularly on the large models - just looks like a black blob to me. I'm sorry to say that you've let yourself get stepped on with this one OP. Stick to your guns in your pricing and how long you estimate it will take to do a commission.


Ascan7

I think they are amazing and i can't believe you did it in one week. Your customer is just being a cheapskate


goozihammer

Also, put your feet down and set up a pricelist - just a basic one, like for me 10€ for a space marine miniature is the baseline - adequately priced up for special characters and bigger models - only thing you'll loose are shitty customers, because people who will appreciate your work will know that quality = cost


LeviathanSkies

Jesus. That commission is less than the army cost - show yourself some love, raise your price and tell that guy to fuck off


_sixsevenfour

What is the big model on the left?


TheIlluminatedDragon

When I do a commission I charge a dollar a color for infantry and then add on for better quality work and more for basing. Usually I end up getting about 6 per infantry model. At a minimum I put 10 bucks for a basic three color scheme for vehicles plus more for anything else. I will also never take a commission that is needed within a small time period like this unless it's a singular character or something. You were underpaid for this commission and honestly you should share his name around that he's a dick to paint for. If he wants results like that he can do it himself


jackfrost7653

All the blades should have been that bronze color but besides that, should have been $500 (US) for it to be done in a week. That's the expense of not wanting to paint it yourself. Dude was just being a tight wad.


Choice-Watercress402

He owes you tree fitty


True-Teaching-774

I fucking love the colors omg. I'm going to copy this not going to lie. Why pay someone to paint half the fun is to paint. I don't get that.


Sappies

These are killer. You aren’t a bad painter…. Just a week for the number of these models clearly isn’t well ideal.


JollySwagman1

Everyone is bashing the purchaser (and I agree it is exceptional value) but doesn’t this all just come down to not discussing and setting a price before hand? Peoples expectations and perceptions on value can vary wildly and while it’s easy to blame the customer you also have take some responsibility for not agreeing to a price before starting


Charming-Row-3529

No I am happy to paint it for $350 which is what we agreed on. But he hummed and arr’d about it and told me it was really pricey and to this day still believes that. But $350 is already locked in.


theinquisition

Nah he's probably trying a shitty negotiation technique. Or he doesn't have the money.


JollySwagman1

Sorry I misinterpreted and thought you had only discussed this after you started. Fuck em, $350 is an absolute bargain and even if it wasnt they agreed on the price. At least you’re the one holding all the cards and can just keep the models until payment is made.


EmperorThor

dude, if your doing that for $350 in a weeks turn around ill swing some work your way, and give you more time to get it done. thats a great price for what looks like really great paint job.


culverwill

As a fellow Necron player and painter, your getting stiffed you could charge double that at minimum for them! They look amazing man


Raging_Tortoise

Dude, I just finished assembling an ork army from ebay auctions. After MONTHS of waiting for the best deals, I got a fully painted 500 point list for around $250. This is considerably more than just 500 points, your painting quality is impeccable, and you're even planning to do bases. You could sell this for around $1,000, and people would buy it, trust me. Honestly, you could even sell the units individually and get more offers, if that isn't too much of a hassle.