By - 11111111555555555
I think it just sounds like you are currently incompatible with your family with neither side in the wrong. They are setting a boundary on what they need to feel safe, and you are setting a boundary on what you need to feel healthy. It just is what it is and can be accepted without need for change.
You might be able to join for a video chat during the gathering or record a video to say hello to them and hope that one day you can be compatible with your family again.
It’s helped me to think of it like this, God has empowered man to develop medicine to combat the work of satan.
For levity, I am reminded of the old joke about a man not wanting to evacuate during a flood. A big rainstorm was coming and the local emergency personal drive by in a truck knocking on doors asking people to leave, the Old Man said, “I’m not worried Gods gonna take care of me.”
A few hours later, when the flood came, the old man was sitting on his roof, an emergency boat goes by, ask him if he wants to evacuate, he said “I’m not worried Gods gonna take care of me”.
The waters got higher, the old man was sitting on his chimney, an emergency helicopter flys to him, the emergency personal ask him to evacuate, the old man says, “I’m not worried God will take care of me.”
The scene shifts to heaven, the Old Man asks god, “Why didn’t you take care of me?” God said “I sent you a truck, boat and a helicopter, what more do you want?”
I mean, I get that analogy. In a lot of circumstances I would agree with it. Just for some reason, not here. I guess I have gotten into a habit of questioning how far people have taken all the covid precautions before the v, that I'm not sure I trust that it is what folks say it is. I mean, there's using what God gives us to help ourselves and each other, and then there's using it to spread fear and control. For instance the isolation of the lockdown caused mental health issues and addiction to skyrocket, and a lot of church communities to suffer either from not meeting or from the consequences of gathering as the Bible commands. And constantly looking at your neighbor as a possible source of disease instead of a person to be loved seems super heartbreaking. And that's all before the vac cine - which is touted not just as a beneficial gift but as THE ticket to being able to "participate in society again". It seems creepy and overdone, and I wish I knew where to draw the line. Because at the end of the day we're supposed to trust in God before we trust in even the best of his gifts, and I can only think about the fear and control approach as coming from not trusting in God. I kind of wish I trusted the vac, but I just can't bring myself to fully do it. There's already too much of a bad taste in my mouth over all this covid stuff.
Be careful of 'analogies' and 'wisdom' that is NOT scriptural. I haven't seen that statement or those analogies in the Bible, but I hear them thrown around casually.
What I have seen in scripture - the word of Truth, is that it is God that heals disease:
Psalm 103:3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases
And the scriptural advice for dealing with sickness in the NT is:
James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
So you've never gone to the doctor?
There’s nothing wrong with the vaccine. It’s not Gods gift. It’s not the mark of the beast. It’s a response from governments and the scientific community to keep people alive. However, the main point is that God ultimately decides our fate and not a vaccine. You get it because you value your life and the life of others and there’s nothing wrong with that. Moderna has made a vaccine that has remained above 90% after six months of the vaccination so there’s confidence there. There are those who legitimately can’t take it as I have coworkers and family who are immunocompromised. People are scared for their lives and that’s why they want people to be vaccinated. It’s good you don’t depend on the vaccine, but we do have to consider maintaining peace and not agitating the public or attracting attention because we’re not meant to boast in our protection in God (He can easily take it away).
Interesting you say that we should not boast in our protection from God - could you speak more on that? It's another topic I've felt conflicted about. I knew some folks who were badically preaching that the virus was a judgement for unbelievers, and Christians who believed in God's protection would never get it. And then one of them got it (the girlfriend of the guy who started teaching it) and got in a whole lot of flak from her workplace because of it. She said she got it because God was testing her to see if she was reliant on his protection or would still trust him without it. It really made me reconsider believing God for protection and foregoing practical means - although he certainly has kept me from getting it thus far, despite having been closely exposed numerous times - but since that friend getting covid, I have felt convicted to be humble about it, trusting God and not pushing my luck. I wonder if getting the vaccine would be disrespecting that protection, or being humble and not acting entitled to it, and I'm honestly not sure. I want to honor God tho...
I think personally you're over thinking it. Just look at the scientific evidence and make an educated decision. Ignore people's opinion on the science, ignore everything except the the raw data and make a smart decision. Isn't that all that matters?
I would say that acting with godly wisdom is a bit more important than acting on scientific conclusions. In general, I see science as a human work that is only "right" so long as it goes with the righteousness God wants us to live by.
Lol, I always overthink things. Sometimes that's part of the fun of life 😁
>I would say that acting with godly wisdom is a bit more important than acting on scientific conclusions. In general, I see science as a human work that is only "right" so long as it goes with the righteousness God wants us to live by.
It's not that I disagree with you. It's that I have don't fully understand what you're talking about exactly. Science is just a methodology. It's literally just us observing nature created by God and helping to put it into a model that helps us understand reality. Science quite literally is just us trying to decode and understanding what God made from a Christian's perspective.
Science is just a tool that helps us understand questions like: Why is the sun always hot, what is gravity, why is the sky blue, etc. So from my experience of being a Baptist Christian for 20 years, it matters what is scientifically factually true but also that you study God's wisdom and use that to make an educated decision. Discarding one or the other is wrong. Taking one over the other is also wrong. Science and God's Wisdom are both required in equal measure. Let me know what you think. Maybe we are saying the same thing after all.
I’m unvaccinated. I haven’t been infected. My parents got infected then got the vaccine. I have relatives who got the vaccine and still got it. I’ve been fortunate, others haven’t. However, I do not take confidence like “God will ALWAYS have my back” as I continue to live the way I want. God only has your back 100% if you live close to His principles, and beyond that it’s just His mercy. Simply put, don’t ever assume you have enough virtue for God to protect you, but we cannot also live in a spirit of fear. The vaccine isn’t something that poses judgement or blessing, it is a human made solution to a health problem. Faith is completely separate from it and whether you take it or not is up to you, but live in neither fear nor pride.
Get the vax. You will be ok. If you look at history, every vax has this type of resistance.
This is not some sort of govt controll, one world new order conspiracy. This is a serious pandemic and I have lost 3 family members to COVID. 3.
This is a serious situation and as a Bible believing Christian, God gives us knowledge and technology for a reason.
See, here's the thing. You may be right. But dang, am I tired of seeing science used as an excuse to steamroll over people's emotions, blanket-judging any form of hesitancy as conspiracy theorism. So it's hard to trust. I have friends whose medical issues might mean a violent allergic reaction to the shot itself - are they conspiracy theorists? This is part of why it's hard for people to trust it - their objections being mocked and not taken seriously. Who wants to trust someone who will belittle their emotions? That's just gaslighty and weird. Part of me wishes I could trust the darn thing. But the way it's publicized ("if you disagree with it, you're crazy") seems so creepy it makes me wonder if there IS something to cover up. I can't say I have any hard objections to it. It's just that soft hesitancy. "I wish it were that simple, but I have a hard time believing it is..."
You have friends who can’t get a vaccine for medical reasons… isn’t that just all the more reason for you get get it like you would any other? They rely on healthy people getting more protection to protect them
Truth=scripture vs the world 'knowledge' (NB in KJV the below is translated as 'science')
1 Timothy 6: 20 Timothy, protect what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly, empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called “knowledge”— 21 which some have professed and thereby have gone astray from the faith.
To put it in the plainest terms I can muster...
Our unity is in Christ alone. If there is a secondary issue, one that does not compromise the faith, that causes division, we violate Scripture. Namely, Col 3.
If you can stand before God with a clear conscience on this issue, then all is well. Could they do such a thing, I wonder?
I know many who have made too big an issue of this, that is, they have divided the church on grounds not regarding the nature of God, nor the means of salvation, nor the exercise of church discipline that will have much to answer for on that great day, myself included.
I agree that too big an issue has been made of this. So much of this co vid stuff has been made into excuses to not love each other. I hate it.
I will think about whether I can stand before God with a clear conscience. I guess my heart is so confused right now I don't even know what that looks like.
As an outsider, it appears you are not the one who is placing conditions upon this thanksgiving meal. I see no guilt. But this is not a trial and I'm no judge. I hope this has been helpful anyway and I hope everything goes well.
Jeez. Get the vaccine. It’s not a test from God. Also, it’s more than 60% effective. It’s very fair to be restricted from events because you won’t get vaccinated. There is no moral or logical reason to not get the vaccine. It’s not about you being weak or strong, it’s about protecting your grandparents and anyone else in society. So, in short, yes, I think you are wrong.
I appreciate your honesty, but honestly, I fail to see how I, personally, am responsible for "protecting everyone in society". There's a lot of people in society - I don't think God intends for us each to burden ourselves with the wellbeing of every single one. As for protecting my grandparents, I do care about that, because they are at risk of not surviving covid if they got it. I certainly don't want that situation to ever be a reality. However, I don't really look at the vaccine as a universal or total solution to that. It's all risk management to me. You be extra careful to wash your hands and cover your sneezes and coughs and offer free pumps of hand sanitizer at your business, that reduces the risk by a certain amount. You get tested if you think it's necessary (as a precaution around high-risk individuals or if you feel sick or may have been exposed to covid), that decreases the risk by another amount. Wearing masks when appropriate also reduces some risks, and so does having more "personal bubble" space (social distancing, though I hate that phrase and prefer "physical distancing"), and avoiding some public contact when you can help it. What the vaccine does is when a larger and larger percentage of people have had it, it reduces the risk for any given person by a certain amount. The idea is to eventually reduce the risk of transmission/serious illness enough that the virus is eliminated from spreading. That may or may not be possible in the immediate future, and our role has nothing to do with being responsible individually for all of society, and everything to do with each of us evaluating how much we can do to minimize those risks. That limit might look different for different people because of work, personal needs, and medical conditions. What seems utterly stupid to me is when we take a problem of numbers and percentages and turn it into an all-or-nothing, black or white thing based on a single action. When staying at home was the "big move", people said you either stayed at home or you put all of society in danger. When it was mask wearing, people said you either wear a mask at all times or you put all of society in danger. Now that the vaccine is the "next big covid-fighting thing", people are saying you either get the shot or put all of society in danger. It doesn't make sense. What happened to mask wearing or testing or even hand-washing for that matter? It's now vaccine or nothing, vaccine or you're stupid, vaccine or you're personally responsible for everyone who's died and continues to die from a virus that is nobody's fault. But, because of the uncertainty and fear, people have resorted to black or white thinking. And it makes me sad that this is what passes for logic in our day and age. Honestly, I love my grandparents, and I respect their right and decision to want to minimize risk at a big family gathering. But I personally don't think they're being wise to say that vaccination is the only, all-or-nothing way to do that. I offered to get a covid test, I would honestly consider wearing a mask. I don't believe we should be reckless about covid, and I'd hate to see people I love die from it. But I can believe that and also at the same time believe in thought-out reasoning over groupthink and black-or-white-isms.
For every single one? No. For the least of these? Yes. For your neighbour? Yes.
Mask-wearing, distancing, and hand washing are all still important. These are important steps to prevent any illness. I hope people think about masking up during flu season, and at schools of a stomach virus (if it’s airborne) is going around. We should have learned how effective it is.
I won't say it's not effective. But I do think each person reserves the right to make his or her own decision on what he or she is willing to do (laziness notwithstanding, everyone should wash their hands tbh).
Everyone should wear a seatbelt. So, now it’s law. Personal freedoms don’t exist in a vacuum. Even the US Founders rooted their concepts in social contract theory. The notion that we all have the right to do what ever we want isn’t actually Freedom… it’s anarchy.
>There's a lot of people in society - I don't think God intends for us each to burden ourselves with the wellbeing of every single one.
There is no burden. You go to Walgreens, get a free shot, and now you're more healthy and so is everyone you come into contact.
Also, no shade being tossed but it would be amazing if you could just hit enter from time to time. Break up your comment into paragraphs which would really help to increase the readability.
I'm talking more about the emotional/moral burden of feeling a sense of responsibility. As in, believing yourself to be morally culpable based on if someone you don't know gets covid or not. That is too much stress for me to deal with, frankly. I don't know how people who take that stance deal with the massive guilt that must follow - what if one tiny action I took lead to someone else dying? You'll never know and you'll never have peace. No thanks. I don't think God wants us to live in that state of worry.
And lol, I almost did space it out, but I couldn't decide where to put the spaces. Reading back over it it felt like one (large) cohesive paragraph so I left it as such.
>I'm talking more about the emotional/moral burden of feeling a sense of responsibility. As in, believing yourself to be morally culpable based on if someone you don't know gets covid or not.
I mean, I don't know about you. But if something is within my power and I care about the well-being of other conscious living human beings, then I see no reason why I can't look at the risks and make an educated decision. To me getting the vaccine was extremely safe and well worth any of the risks. That's just life basically.
>what if one tiny action I took lead to someone else dying?
Because we admit to ourselves that we don't and can't know everything. Mistakes will happen. All that matters is the intent. Make a mistake? Do your best to learn and grow from it. That's something both secular science and the Bible agree on.
>And lol, I almost did space it out, but I couldn't decide where to put the spaces. Reading back over it it felt like one (large) cohesive paragraph so I left it as such.
Yeah no problem friend, I feel ya. At best (imo) is to at least just put them in there. Even if you break up the long comment into nonsensical paragraphs willy nilly, at least it's easier to read than not doing it. That helps people on both PC and mobile platforms. But you do you amigo. Not trying to sound like a English teacher nazi.
I'm just trying to help you help others understand you better. It's 2021 and people are REALLY *REALLY* lazy. Statistically if you can't hold someone's attention in the first 7 seconds they will downvote you and not read what you said.
Haha yeah, I really do usually break things up. I just decided not to this time.
An observation - it seems like you're going at it with an "opt-in" sense of responsibility - if there's something you can do, you will do it. Whereas I guess I tend to look at it from an "opt-out" mentality - there's a thousand and one things someone expects me to do to make a difference in the world (covid vaccine, eating vegan, buying fair trade, participating in charity work, giving to the homeless, etc etc etc) and i get overwhelmed thinking I'm a bad person if I don't do ALL OF IT. Honestly, I like your way better, and I wish I thought like that more. I heard something at a conference this past weekend along the same lines - don't try to do everything, just focus on the people God has placed in front of you.
Perhaps this covid vax stuff is part of what God has placed in front of me. Admittedly it's felt overwhelming for one reason or another and I've not tried to do much about it (other than not coughing on people and wearing masks in stores, lol). Will keep praying through it tho. Thank you for the friendly discussion 😊
>I heard something at a conference this past weekend along the same lines - don't try to do everything, just focus on the people God has placed in front of you.
Well said friend. Well said.
The only thing I would add is that I don't particularly think anything I've said is in competition with this "opt-out" mentality. I actually agree with it.
So with that in mind, you are deciding to go out, to go to the grocery store, to go to a football game, to go to a movie theater, etc. You are free to to opt-out of any of that. But if you are going to be around others in general, that also means you are opting in to do the bare minimum to not harm others, are you not? And if the vaccine is declared safe according to the facts and your own health, then why not get it? If you should get it is wholly up to you.
I've enjoyed this discussion very much. I also respect you for not treating my like crap for the silly label next to my name. I may not be a Christian anymore but I genuinely still love Christianity and it's community. It's where I grew up. I still feel apart of Christianity in a way. Even if I'm not convinced that a God exists. I hope you and everyone else in your life has a wonderful holiday.
If ever there were a reason to compromise - this would be it.
It's like a sacrifice from your perspective.
You're not sacrificing Christ.
Appreciate the response. I understand that it isn't primarily an issue of being faithful to God or not. But I feel obligated to hit the brakes when it comes to being coerced or shamed into doing something - it feels like a sacrifice of my conscience. Like the believers in Corinth who wouldn't eat meat sacrificed to idols, because the association with their pagan past would cause them to stumble against their conscience. Paul not only tells them it's fine to go with their conscience, but warns other believers who don't have the same qualms to be careful lest their weaker brothers stumble. Sometimes it may not really be an issue of faith or sin, but it feels it. That's how it is for me. To be clear, it's not an issue against the vaccine itself, so much as the manner in which it has been pushed. The shaming people for not getting it, conflicting information, restrictions, etc. Part of me wishes I could just take it, but at this point, I guess I can't bring myself to do it. I worry that it would cause me to stumble out of trusting God by thinking that kind of manipulation is ok (some of my past experiences complicate this for me). I'm not sure if that is something God wants to bring me out of, in strengthening my conscience. I am still praying about it.
>But I feel obligated to hit the brakes when it comes to being coerced or shamed into doing something - it feels like a sacrifice of my conscience
I get it.
I'm just saying if there ever was a time, this would be it - you know?
Otherwise we are more important than everything else, all the time.
You know how sometimes, in families....
So I said this on the sense that you don't have to agree. You can keep your conviction - and choose this time to compromise *because you choose to* and not because you agree - you see?
I'm getting so much that people are willing to tear their families apart over what really is just an attempt at Public Health - whatever we think of it - for this one attack that's come from nowhere.
Or - like this. If this is a battle of conscious, what are we winning? What does winning look like?
Anyway - I was just saying.
The reality is we all get to do what we want.
I hope whatever decision you make brings Joy and makes room for happiness somehow
Do not take the harm that causes harm as a sister in Christ calls it. I would abide by their wishes and not attend. For your grandparents, I would call them at a later time and try to keep the lines of communication open. You may have to get used to the idea that seeing them for awhile is not possible. Choices do have consequences and we need to decide where our lines in the sand are and have a backbone about it.
This whole plandemic has caused so much pain. Thank God we have his word to help prepare us for a time such as this.
You have offered to be tested. This means that they could be (basically) sure you don’t have Covid. On the other side, your vaccinated family can have Covid, and we would not know whether they do or not as they won’t get tested (I presume).
Therefore, what your family is doing is 1) arbitrary and 2) insulting. Your family (I will repeat this word a few times to get the message out) is denying you for no good reason. Your family doesn’t want you there because you’re hesitant on a vaccine. Your family doesn’t care how safe you are to be around, they don’t want you around.
Those are the facts. Here is my opinion: I would never, ever bow down to arbitrary measures put in place in order to insult me and deny me what I should rightfully have. Never. It would show a lack of integrity, and also simple weakness.
That’s not to say I’m against vaccines - I’m not. I’m just against blackmail, stupidity and disrespect.
My family is similar, and I love them, and I don’t blame them as no one knows how to deal with this Covid. But I won’t be weak.
Same here. I'm not against the vaccine on principle, but I hate the manipulation and groupthink they're doing. They say it's logical, but it's really just controlling and fearful. I almost feel morally obligated to oppose that thinking on principle, and hoenstly, honestly if not for that, I might have gotten the vaccine already. Who knows. I will probably spend Thanksgiving with spiritual family who doesn't make their relationships with me conditional on a stupid issue that everyone has the right to decide for themselves.
Yeah, I agree.
I was speaking to some people the other day about taking the vaccine. Some of them were in favour of it, others not. Then someone asked me: « what would it take for you to get vaccinated? ». I answered: « probably, if they took away the restrictions on the unvaccinated, I would do it ». To them, this made no sense - they took the vaccine in order to get their freedoms back, and here I am saying I will take it only if I get my freedoms back first.
But it’s simple, really: I don’t answer to blackmail.
And I’ve got antibodies so making me take the vaccine makes no sense anyway.
I am 100 percent with you! I guess some people value the respect and invidual right to decide, while others don't really care about giving that up to feel "taken care of". It's sketchy to me. I don't trust the government (or medical system) that much and I don't understand how some people do.
God said don't poison your body, science says this vax is useless and more likely to cause health problems and doesn't protect against the virus. If the vax actually worked they wouldn't be banned in 20-30 countries including most Christian countries.
I would show up anyways and if they throw a fit, then you know your family doesn't care about facts or reality, they are so brainwashed by the modern satanic culture.
I'm really not trying to start a fight, honestly. Personally I'd rather not take it - but the idea of being the center of controversy around my whole extended family is not fun.
Who cares what others think? Stop worrying about what others think about you, you live your life for yourself and God, not for them. If it comes up, use the line "my body my choice". If they bring up about saving lives, ask how 60% of people dying from the virus now are vaccinated.
Again, if I were more willing to be controversial - but that just isn't my move. Thanks tho
None of what you said about the vaccine is true and the recommendation of showing up anyways is not at all in line with how a Christian should behave.
Science has shown what I said is factual regardless if you choose to believe it or not (real science, not this fake paid off scientists and Fauci puppets used to make false claims). God had said multiple times to show up and act even when the world is against you. He does not say be meek and bow down to the world of lies and Satan.
Your screen name perfectly fits your response.
What are you talking about? Seriously.
>they wouldn't be banned in 20-30 countries
Yeah, they suspended it temporarily, not banned it entirely. What about the rest of your "arguments"?
It’s really 50/50 in my opinion. I got the vaccine because the part of the country I live in is basically requiring you to get it in order to go to public events and My office required either the vaccine or to wear a mask every day. I also did not want to lie and get a fake vaccine card because that seems to be counter productive to me.
I do not think, based on empirical evidence, that the vaccines prevent the spread of the virus. This is just my opinion and I’m not a doctor but I have seen it spread among people who were all vaccinated, in fact I got Covid from someone who is vaccinated fully. I do think that it mitigates the symptoms, I recovered faster than most people I know who were vaccinated but my initial symptoms were worse.
The media has drummed up a lot of panic about it on both sides but it was absolutely used as a tool to make sure Trump was not re-elected. Biden so far has not really done anything different Covid policy wise but it is what it is at this point.
I think people who are super anti vax and also people who are weirdly obsessed with pharmaceutical companies and the people getting the vaccine are equally insane. It’s not the mark of the beast or poison, and it’s not the thing that’s going to save the world. Being healthy and in good shape is the best way to make sure you stay alive, just like every other virus in history.
My experience with Covid was not really bad at all, and I had it twice. At the same time I know of some people who have died, usually older and overweight but that’s neither here nor there at this point. I just want everyone to stop being at each other’s throats but the media is trying their best to keep that up.
Get it if you want, but don’t be surprised if you get excluded from certain things. That’s just how it is now, you can’t blame the average person for falling victim to the fear mongering that’s been going on for nearly two years at this point. Most people don’t have enough energy or brain power to think critically enough to have a nuanced take on it.
Thanks for your honest take. "It’s not the mark of the beast or poison, and it’s not the thing that’s going to save the world." That's kind of where I'm at too to be honest. Honestly at the end of the day this co vid stuff is just more junk in this temporary life in a broken world. It doesn't deserve the intense weight people are putting on it from either direction.
You sound like my Mom. She just underwent a pacemaker implant and is my only relative refusing to get vaccinated for COVID, even though she got the shots already for the Flu and ShingRX. Everyone has a different level of knowledge about these vaccines. Personally I have been vaccinated with the Pfizer shots, and I very much would hesitate to do any other vaccine than that brand. I have heard and seen too many bad stories about those getting the Moderna, and absolute horror stories about J&J. So my recommendation is to just get the Pfizer unless you know for a fact that you are allergic to it’s ingredients. That said, this is the second year in a row that we are not having a family get together with my folks. We 40- and 50- something kids don’t want to risk my 70-something Mom’s health by flying in from all over the country and possibly bringing her an illness that could kill her or further mess up her long term health.
My friend the whole world has gone mad. To be v a x or not v a x has divided the entire world. Literally 50/50.
I guess the only choice left to make is a person ok with the potential outcomes that either choice leads to? One way or another there's ramifications to either choice.
There isn't a right or wrong choice here. Which circumstances are you willing to live with?
Forget about all the peer pressure and science that sides with either being v a x or un v a x... What decision has God lead you to in your heart?
If you're unsure then by default it's remain un v a x
If you have a clear (100%) conscious about being v a x then well, that's straight forward.
No one can choose for you. But by default we are all making a choice whether we think we are or not.
That's a good question. I honestly wouldn't choose to get it at all - except that my grandparents literally don't want to be around anyone who hasn't had it, and I don't want to never see them again. I don't know if that's enough for it to be worth changing my mind.
I understand, so, how then do your grandparents overrule what's in your heart?
Sounds like your grandparents made a choice too. A choice to cut off anyone who doesn't agree with them. So they made a choice to not see you, NOT the other way around.
Perhaps you can meet them at a distance or else do video calls at first to stay in contact.
This is a classic example of world powers using the power of social pressure and enforcement to bend EVERYONE'S will, well almost everyone's.
Would you be comfortable visiting you grandmother right now? Would *she* be comfortable with you visiting? If the answer to both is yes, then I'd just accept that you will not be visiting for Thanks giving. I really cannot grasp why 2G (vaccine or recovered) policy is in some way better than 1G (test only) policy just as you said.
Consider that you may still visit your grandmother outside of the holiday season, and I pray your family will come to their senses on the issue.