T O P

It's so easy to get sucked into MGTOW after a breakup

It's so easy to get sucked into MGTOW after a breakup

snarkerposey11

I think at least 75% of mgtow is made up of guys who went through a bitter breakup / divorce and never emotionally recovered from it, and probably never will. The key to avoiding this: learn how to be happy single. Learn how to manage your basic life tasks independently. Cultivate good friendships and learn how to manage your own social life living solo. Learn how you can have and enjoy sex outside of traditional monogamous romantic coupled relationships. Develop hobbies and interests and sources of joy in your life beyond seeking and having a girlfriend. Once you learn that you can be happy single, you're immune to mgtow and similar misogynist schools of thought. You can still engage in romantic relationships, but when one ends or a woman dumps you, you will no longer feel like your life is over and you've been robbed of everything worth living for, because you will already know life can be awesome and fun living solo.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Solid advice dude! Totally agree, psychologically mgtow guys may end up the way they do due to not recovering emotionally properly. Makes a ton of sense. I'm currently working towards becoming happy single again with a lot of what you say to do. Enjoying the outdoors and continuing my passion for bodybuilding and lifting along with spending time with my few great friends. Sex is something I'm still actively trying to do, but with no avail. Can't force anyone to, and I can't find anyone who wants to so that's blowing my ego down a bit. I do find so much value in life, and I feel so fulfilled loving and being loved so it's very difficult for me right now to not feel "like my life is over and been robbed of everything." But I acknowledge I need to work on that to improve my mental health and show me I can feel fulfilled in other areas of my life. You make a very good point; once I can enlighten myself to this, I don't think I'll ever feel bitter and feel attracted to mgtow and similar groups. Thank you, sincerely, for your solid advice. Brevity is not my strong suit and I love replying to people, so thanks if you read this all.


oberon

Oof, I feel you on the ego blow. I know it's super hard to separate your sex appeal from your worth as a person, but do try to make the distinction. I wish I could tell you how, but I'm still working on it myself.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Ya, it's definitely hard, especially as men. I feel like we're just biologically wired to put those two things together just as much as we are to solve problems or build things. It's funny, because I can totally acknowledge that they are not mutually exclusive, yet here I am completely broken down inside when I run out of people to swipe on dating apps with no matches. Even tho we're both trying to figure that out still, I appreciate your support.


oberon

Let's be fair though, this isn't just a problem that men face. In fact I'd say that in terms of raw "you need to be sexy" messaging, women have it far worse. I'm not trying to minimize your experience at all. Like I said, I feel the same way. But I just felt the need to respond to the "as men" part of your comment there.


Mysterious-Weakness1

I feel you. To me, girls have a far greater social pressure to always look good as compared to guys. But me as a male, I just have a biological urge or desire to be able to attract women (and act on it) and feel unfulfilled inside when I can't.


oberon

Yep, absolutely.


acidboi15

That’s about half mgtow, I think the other half thinks similar to you


PutsWomenOnPedestal

>I can't find anyone who wants to so that's blowing my ego down a bit. Please don't tie your ego to this. Men desire women more than women desire men ( source: *How the Mind Works* by Steven Pinker). That is just how we men are wired. It shouldn't be taken personally, any more than an asexual woman not wanting sex with a man should be taken personally. Looks like you are on the right track and I wish you a full recovery. The outdoors are great !


Mysterious-Weakness1

Thanks! And thank you again for your solid advice.


MissPearl

I don't know if this is biological wiring as much as pragmatism, as the risk of things going wrong socially encourage more caution. Further, taking it to animal behaviour in other primates, we generally think of sex as being presenting a rump in heat to be taken. This is an over simplification, where female chimpanzees, etc... make an equal part of their initiating process, but the overtures observed by females are more veiled and covert as their strategy involves not getting noticed by higher ranking same sex peers. If this happens it can trigger them being attacked.


PutsWomenOnPedestal

It is evolved pragmatism which is manifested in biological wiring or hormone levels or whatever. I don't know the exact mechanism but the universality across cultures in how men pursue women but not vice versa implies this is biological. I am not sure how relevant chimpanzee or bonobo comparisons are to humans. Both are human cousins, but with very different sexual behavior. And humans have language which alters the incentives. Also ofcourse human women don't go into heat.


mercinarary

Some of them are preteen and teen boys who haven’t even dated before


snarkerposey11

Yes I'm sure that's true. I *think* most preteens and teen boys going a bad way will gravitate more to incel, MRA, or Jordan Peterson places than mgtow. Although obviously it's a porous border and I'm sure there's lots of overlap. mgtow has a unique flavor of soured on the bitterness of romantic relationship breakup experience with women. but i could see how that might be evolving and some young boys decide to become bitter without even needing the first hand experience of it.


Banned_BY_SOYMEN

This is what MGTOW teaches... It's about being happy alone


snarkerposey11

The difference is the reason why you are learning to be happy alone. For mgtow, the explanation is because women are untrustworthy and marriage has been ruined by feminism. Being happy single is a forced choice for mgtow, and not their preference. For feminist men it's about being happy in our lives and valuing women the same as we do other men, as friends and equals, whether we are romantically coupled with a woman or not. Feminist men like the world and women's equality as it is, so learning to be single is a part of that world we are happy to be in.


Banned_BY_SOYMEN

You actually think male feminists value men and women equally? I have a bridge to sell you.


snarkerposey11

There are feminist men, and then there is the imaginary "male feminist" that features as a bogeyman for manosphere guys. The mythical "male feminist" plays hippie love songs on an acoustic guitar, has a manbun, burns patchouli oil, is a member of a vegan collective, has read the collected works of karl marx and simone de beauvior, and has never had sex with a woman. Actual feminist men are diverse and they blend right in. They come and all shapes and sizes and exist in every life station and occupation where men can be found. But you won't always know them as feminist men unless they choose to reveal themselves to you -- which, if you are not also a feminist, they often wont bother to do.


SpillTheCheerwine

"Male feminist" is also associated with Joss Whedon-type shitbags who talk about feminism as a way to manipulate men and women. I don't claim the label "feminist" because I don't think it's mine to bestow, but I try to treat people well, respect their experiences, and hope for the best.


RC2891

Sorry to hear you're going through a tough time. If you feel like you need a mens support community, maybe check out r/MensLib. It's maybe more political and less personal than what you need right now, but it might be helpful. Otherwise it sounds like you have your head on straight. Try to seek support from friends more than random youtube videos.


Mysterious-Weakness1

That sub looks much better for support, through my brief skim. Thanks for the guidance towards it. Luckily, I do have a really good friend who's very smart I can confide in, but I do spend a lot more time on youtube, so I do come across those videos more frequently. Thanks for your comment, I appreciate it.


FlwrPowr

Hell yeah r/MensLib is a lovely sub.


thetruthishere_

Many people out there go through breakups and dont turn to MGTOW/RP, or becoming bitter, hateful, etc. Life happens, it happens to all of us and almost all of us went through a breakup that hurts badly. Work through it. Feel the pain, grieve, own it and know You Will move on. Millions out there do. You'll get to the other side and dont have to be hateful, bitter, never trust again, etc. Many people get through it and you can too. Its not about pills, its life. Its how you react. Are you going to be bitter and go down the rabbit hole or know... you got you and dont need that baloney? Im also sorry you're going through this but know you can move on without some toxic BS. Edit, spelling.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Thanks, I appreciate your encouragement. It's my first real relationship and first love, so it's tough. It's my first time going through this and I definitely don't want to become a bitter, sexist bastard. At this stage, I'm just afraid to ever give myself to another girl like I did to my last girlfriend, ever again. I put so much effort and emotion into it because I just knew she was the one. I'm afraid for it not to work out again. But then MGTOW comes around and has the potential to make me think I can't ever trust a girl again. I appreciate your encouragement, I guess it's just my turn to go through a breakup like the rest of humanity experiences at one point. I definitely don't want to become toxic, and I want to be able to healthily move on from this relationship.


thetruthishere_

You're in pain right now. Its human and normal. It will take time, know it will. Trust, you will get through it and meet someone else after you give yourself the time. Dont rush the process, do you right now. Take the time to wallow in it, maybe get drunk a time or too(haha), feel like crap for a while, etc. Its ok to mourn and be bummed out, just don't stay there. Also it wont work out with everyone even if you both want it. Its ok it doesn't. Again, life happens and this is life. People will come into our life for a reason, a season or lifetime. They teach us lessons. Ive been there and even though it didn't work I had great times, learned lessons, etc. I even had a bad toxic one a long time ago and I would not let it put me down. I knew I would heal and move on. I gave myself time to heal and I sure did. I never dated a bad one again.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Along with taking time to feel my emotions, I have been doing a great job doing me. I've been doing hobbies and activities I love to make me feel better and keep my mind off things 100% of the time. I also went skydiving for the first time and never felt so alive. You're right tho, it's ok to feel bummed and it's normal. I may even learn a thing or two during this process, so I shouldn't want to rush it. With due time, I hope I can emerge from this a better person for it. It's overwhelming to think of giving myself to someone else again, but I hope I can again when the time is right.


thetruthishere_

Thats good to feel it and do you right now. Anyone can burn us but nothing good comes from what ifs instead of trying. As they say its better to have loved and lost than never love at all. You may even come across some more crappy women when it comes time to date again. Most of us come across some crappy ones. Just dont give up, its part of dating, not everyone will fit and usually its nothing personal, you just don't fit. Its ok you dont, you're not a failure, etc. It dating, we have to 'try people on'. Heck someone can not like you because the way you chew or your hands. Its not personal. Its about them.


whiskeyinthewoods

Going through a breakup right now with a guy who took this advice... I found out and left him. He’s been madly obsessed with me for a year and a half. We were obsessed with each other. Same values, same passions, intense chemistry, couldn’t keep our hands off each other almost two years in. Thought this was it. He did too. When I caught him cheating, his excuse was that he “thought it would bring us closer.” But I can’t and won’t let him ruin my own self respect too. It’s so twisted and disgusting and utterly tragic. Unnecessary. He lost it. Said he couldn’t live without me. Wanted to get married. Had made me a key to his house and wanted me to move in... I can’t unsee what he was doing behind my back while telling me he loved me. I would NEVER do that to him. He got his first DUI Friday. His truck broke down right after he got out of jail. He in free-fall, went on a coke fueled bender with his most misogynistic friend, lost his job, and freely admits to driving drunk again less than 12 hours after he got out of out of jail. Part of me is devastated that he’s spiraling and just wants to hug him and make it okay. The other part knows I can’t do that while still respecting myself after what he did. So I’m moving on. Cheating didn’t “work”. It just fucked everything up for us both. We could have had a life. Now we’re both in so much pain. That’s such poisonous advice.


Mysterious-Weakness1

I am so loyal and trustworthy, I can NEVER EEEVVVEERRR understand why someone could justify cheating. I would NEVER do that to someone, and I would also never give someone a second chance from it. I can't ever not believe that once a cheater, always a cheater. If you had the capability to be that horrible ahole once, what's stopping you from doing it again? That's so horrible you went through that... I'm so sorry. I hope to never experience betrayal like that. You are SO strong to stick to your guns and move on and I admire your courage for it. I can only hope I would be that strong and not spiral down after being cheated on. I already have my own personal trust and abandonment issues, so I know I wouldn't take it well. I found it so disgusting and utter evil when I heard that stupid cheating "aDvIcE" on the mgtow videos. I can't believe people would think that way and stab the one they claim to love in the back like that. There's not much you can do for him, you can't take back a cheater. If he spirals his own life down, that's all on him. He's the only one who can take control of his life. From the sounds of it, it may be far from over with the drugs and drinking... Thank you for sharing your story, and continue to stay strong!


mietzbert

The blue pill is basically accepting that women are just people some of them are shitty people some of them are mentally ill some of them, like most people aren't perfect but this doesn't make them irredeemable just like MGTOW and other such men rights groups are pretenting that we are fundamentally different when in reality we all fall on some spectrum. You don't hate your own gender although they are men who cheat and steal. What you need to keep in mind is also that you should take everything people post online with a grain of salt, especially if they are never at fault for anything that happens to them. For an example a guy I knew would spout all the typical men rights bullshit, how his wife is divorcing him and how the court is so biased against him Yada Yada Yada. I knew this guy from the bar I was working at, before his divorce he would come in nearly every day of the week after work and on the weekends getting shit faced and complained that his wife doesn't want him to play videogames all day and play with the kid instead. Without knowing anything about the wife it was pretty clear she was at least not the only one at fault. After his divorce he got together with a 16 year old, he was nearly 40. Yeah this didn't end well either I guess. I have many more of these stories. Most of what they say are either outright lies or a gross misrepresentation of the actual situation. Look into their claims and see for yourself. There is nothing wrong with a man (or woman) who does not want to be in a relationship or marry because of the risks involved. Everything in life has a risk to it, if it isn't worth it for you that is fine but if you pretend the risks are solely dew to one genders nasty character traits than it becomes unreasonable.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Thank you for sharing and commenting. I totally agree, and have always thought this concept. That there are aholes in EVERY group of people. There are female aholes, there are male aholes. There are black aholes, there are white aholes. Every group has aholes in them. What is not true, nor will every be true, is that an ahole can be an ENTIRE group of people based solely on that identity alone. Men can cheat and do wrong just as a female could, it doesn't mean all females are out to wrong me. Like in mgtow, they like to post videos of girls actually saying things along the lines of "he's too nice, so I broke up with him" or "me when the 6'4" drug dealer left me on read and I'm excited to see him again" and claim this is all women. When it's DEFINITELY just a toxic minority of them. There are plenty of toxic males too!


mietzbert

It is funny when they post such things about women without seeing the irony. Yes those women exist and there is often a reason why they end up like that just like there is a reason MGTOWs end up like that. I don't want to take responsibility away from either of them but i am sure if you would get to know them really well you would notice that they all have similar histories of a negletful upbringing in one way or the other. All the hate is a symptom of deeper issues not the cause for their actions. You can get addicted to hate as well as self destructive behavior.


Mysterious-Weakness1

This is very sound. It can definitely be rooted in some kind of past experience, and if we psychoanalyze either group (toxic girls or toxic mgtow guys), there's bound to be some sort of past trauma they are not responsible for experiencing. I like that you think that way, that the "hate is just a symptom...not a cause." That way of thinking alone could keep me away from becoming addicted to the MGTOW way of hatred. Instead of blaming them for their actions, I could have an understanding that they may have had poor past experiences.


mrz0loft

can confirm, there's actually a lot of good sound advice for men that you can find in those circles but it's all lost and diluted among all the outright sexism and plain old stupidity like that one piece of "advice" you quoted. It just adds on to the pile of problems that come with being a modern man to be honest and makes it all much worse.


Mysterious-Weakness1

This has been my experience as well. Starts off as a community who hears and understands you, so you feel welcome. Then you see all the disgusting nature of it. The generalization and sexism becomes rampant and can be allowed in your reasoning very easily if you maintain attention to it.


Mental_Detective

Here's the thing. Taking a break and focusing on yourself for awhile is solid advice for dealing with the aftermath of a relationship, especially if it was a messy one. I strongly suggest that both men and women do more of this. Hell, even deciding you are done with romantic attachments is alright. What is not alright is the endless bitching and blaming of the entire opposite sex for your failed relationships. Honestly, MGTOW would be fine if they ever really went their own way, but they'd rather stick around and drag other men into their deeply toxic mindset instead.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Hahah, dude that's really how mgtow be. "we're going our own way, but let's continuously complain about women." No growth, just blaming and validating each other. That's why I'm glad I made this post, I've received so much good advice on taking my time, listening to my feelings, and growing into someone better.


FlwrPowr

So true. That subreddit feels like more of a woman-hating sub than anything else. So so so much negativity.


Mysterious-Weakness1

SO much! Some of them I physically looked disgusted watching the video or reading the text as if I saw someone being sexist in front of me in person. Like there was a video of this teacher (female obv) being pranked multiple times and it cuts to this dude like "HAHAH see?? these b\*\*\* are so stupid!! WOW!" \*disgusted face\* um ok, she was just being pranked. As if you've never fallen for something.


cloudsongs_

It's understandable. The emotions after an experience like the end of a relationship are so volatile. Anger, confusion, and loss of self-esteem/worth can no doubt make MGTOW seem impressive. Important thing to remember is: if the relationship ended, think of it as a blessing that you have learned something from it and that it ended before things continued to become worse. This person was not meant for you but that's okay. If you feel this person has wronged you, be grateful that you are out of this relationship with them. If you have wronged them, be grateful that you no longer will wrong them. If it ended without a reason that you know of, be grateful that you both experienced the happiness you did and that and that you both can continue to experience happiness elsewhere. Keep yourself busy for a while. You can get through this :)


Mysterious-Weakness1

Thank you for your encouragement :) that was very nice to read, and it makes me feel a little more optimistic. I definitely learned so many things through her, as she was my first real relationship and first love. I just hope I was able to teach her valuable lessons too. Thanks again, I sincerely appreciate your words and your encouragement <3


gizzmotech

Lots of good advice here. The bottom line is treating an event like this as an opportunity to understand that your stories simply weren't meant to end together, but it's possible to both appreciate the time you shared and know that your story is still happening. We learn so many things about ourselves, from both the triumphs and failures. And each relationship is an opportunity to grow, by looking within to tweak the things we need to work on, and by coming out with a better understanding of what's right for us. The MGTOW crowd is essentially a rejection of that growth process, and you're not going to get where you want in life without being open to learning, and growing. Good things will come, but in the meantime, take this chance to work on you. You'll be better prepared to work on a relationship when the opportunity comes around again.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Thank you for your comment and advice. Only recently in my life, have I learned growth comes from change and not necessarily just struggle. If this happened to me years ago in my life, I may have ended up a bitter mgtow who hated all women. I am open to, and hope I learn so much during this process now. The difference I see between mgtow and the advice I'm getting from all these great people here, is that mgtows work on themselves but end up bitter and angry against women and never trust them again. While here I'm getting advice to work on myself and find opportunities to learn and grow and trust again.


gizzmotech

100% this. Working on yourself with growth being the goal is how you take away appreciation for the experience, and not just bitterness at the end. In a short handful of years, I've had a 22-year marriage end, a 2+ year relationship end, and met someone new that I care very strongly for, but who isn't ready just yet for a relationship. And all of them are incredible, wonderful women I appreciate and respect, even though our paths separated (or still haven't converged). I am privileged to call them all friends, and each has helped me learn valuable things about myself. You'll do the same if you are open to it. I wish you nothing but the best and lots of happiness ahead!


Mysterious-Weakness1

Thank you so much for your advice and encouragement!!


AstraofCaerbannog

When I met my ex boyfriend he’d been going down a MGTOW rabbit hole. He went down a lot of rabbit holes, but this one clearly resonated with him for the same reasons as you OP. He had chosen to be alone for a few years before he met me, not because he’d been hurt, if anything the other way around. He’d realised though that being in relationships caused drama, and I think felt he’d put too much effort into doing things to impress women. I think the supportive parts of MGTOW just resonated with him. Unfortunately when I met him it meant he had some really concerning views because of this. He was straight up anti feminism, and sneered at the idea of it. He did think that women have it easier than men and that women are just making up or exaggerating our issues, and actually that sexism is towards men. It was weird because he has a bunch of female friends, he initially used them as an example of how they’d never had these issues, until I asked them and it turned out all of them did regularly. I can’t say how to get out of it, but there are other supportive places for men which aren’t veiled in sexism. And I do understand how easy it is to be sucked in by the supportive side, and then become desensitised to the bad stuff. I think this is why there are so many young men who spend a lot of time on the internet who are very sexist. It’s not about real life experiences with women for many, it’s a collective of misinformation about women. Unfortunately while my ex did get a bit better through our relationship, he never lost that bias, and it was deeply upsetting for me to be with someone who was essentially dismissing actual experiences I’d faced in real life as not being a larger issue, because of stories he’d read on the internet. I would say avoid them like the actual plague if you feel yourself being vulnerable to that way of thinking and you ever want healthy relationships with women again. MGTOW is an easy option. It’s telling you that you’re not at fault, it’s the opposite gender that are at fault for every romantic issue you’ve had. It is easy to blame others. It is uncomfortable to acknowledge your own mistakes and shortcomings and engage in genuine self growth.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Thank you for sharing and giving me your advice. Wow, you really explained it well and brief when you say that it's easy to be sucked in by the supportive side, and then be DESENSITIZED to the bad stuff. Because that's really what it is when you look at it from a third party perspective! When you're in it, it seems more like becoming "woke" to the "bad stuff" that women do. Which is not the case and just a gross generalization if not outright lies. I really appreciate you sharing your story about how your ex ended up becoming this desensitized sexist no matter how much better it got. I DO NOT want to be like that, I want to, eventually, find someone else in the future I can trust. And that last thing in the world that I need, it to ruin it with disgusting behavior and beliefs. You also bring up a good point that mgtow tends to make you feel like it's not your fault, it's THEIR fault. And that is just the most unhealthy thing you can do to heal from being wronged. Thank you again for sharing your story and giving me your advice. It was very sound.


AstraofCaerbannog

No worries, I’m glad you got something from it! It’s not like my ex was actually remotely sexist in real life interactions, if anything the opposite, he preferred females to men and respected all of his female coworkers. But as soon as it was say a domestic abuse case or rape case in the media he’d be very quick to thinking the worst of the female and the best of the male. It was this bizarre contradiction between his personal life and how he perceived people in general, and we got into a lot of arguments about it. It’s a sad thing about many places on the internet is there are a lot of lonely males, many of them who feel resentful towards women, but may not actually have much contact with them in real life. I follow r/memes and I see so many super sexist posts, and they get so many likes and positive comments. With the blaming women thing, funny story: when I was travelling I lived in a hostel. One day I was quietly painting and one of the guys who lived there sat down opposite me and engaged in conversation. Very quickly he told me how women are awful, and basically blamed us for all the wrongs in existence, he kept acting like he was expecting me to apologise. I commented that his attitude seemed unhealthy and asked why. He sat up ready to drop the bomb, and announced that he’d once been cheated on. I calmly said that I can understand his pain, but even though I’ve been treated badly by men, I do not group them together and hate those who haven’t wronged me. He sneered at me in a disbelieving tone “what have men done to *you*?” Sitting up pompously while staring me in the eye. And so I responded “well, rape, child abuse, molestation, harassment, stalking, physical abuse, cheating....” this guy looked furious at me for answering with actual problems. He spluttered but couldn’t say anything so he looked away, arms crossed and sulked. I got back to quietly painting and waited until he eventually left to scuttle off to tell my friends. This guy later had a bunch of run ins with women and was eventually kicked out. The reality is, it sucks to be cheated on, it really does. But it’s not a gendered issue. As a woman men have made me fear for my life based on me being female more times than I can count. It can be very scary, and while I don’t feel that way I can understand why some women hate and fear men. However, if your problems are just a bad break up, it’s really not an excuse to start hating an entire gender. Sadly many people seem to be doing just that.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Wow hahah, what a bitter dude! He must've been wronged, but did not heal properly or in a healthy manner. My last girlfriend and I didn't break up in a bad way at all. It was as good of a reason as it could be (she's not comfortable with long distance while I go to PT school unfortunately, and we have differences on family futures). Still sucks and as good as it could've been, I still feel like it didn't have to happen. If I had been wronged like you have experienced, it would for sure be tough to not generalize all girls and heal in a healthy way. I don't want to end up like that and I'm glad so many people have given me their time and advice to not end up like that.


FlwrPowr

I see why he's your ex. That fucking sucks.


Biffingston

The core idea of MGTOW is actually a normal and healthy idea that **does** make sense. Being defined by a relationship, or lack thereof, alone is not a healthy thing. The issue is that they are still very much defined by their lack of relationships. To the point where the joke is "MGTOW = Men Getting Triggered Over Women."


Mysterious-Weakness1

HAHAHAH haven't heard that one before, nice. But it does highlight how the movement/group has become as a whole.


WonderingFairy

Your value is not defined by your ability to attract the opposite sex or the bad end of some relationships. Look for validation with friends and transform your life into something productive and don’t rely on this type of content.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Thank you for your encouragement. As hard as it is currently for me, I have a future to still look forward to. I'm starting PT school this fall and I'm so excited to begin a successful career in that. But I need to remain diligent and productive for it in the mean time. Luckily, I do have a few great friends, as well, that I can seek fun with.


Mental-Ad-9995

There are plenty of places you can get support where you don’t abhor their ideals :) have a look around, since you clearly aren’t mgtow, you just happened to find some support there right when you needed it


Mysterious-Weakness1

You are correct! I've already been shown other subs that support each other, including male specific ones. These ones seem a lot less toxic than mgtow too haha. I'm def not mgtow, and you're right, I just found the support when I was most down.


Mental-Ad-9995

I’m glad you did find comfort in the mgtow subs, but even more so now that you’ve found more positive places to get it :)


Kumquat_conniption

Go hang on r/menslib. Those are men that care about men's issues without blaming them all on women. The patriarchy hurts us all. That is a place to get true support.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Thank you for the advice! This sub is definitely something I need to find support vs mgtow. It really does sound like true support, and not just validation.


Kumquat_conniption

Yeah, I mean I just lurk because it is a place for men to talk about their issues but man, the amount of complexity and nuance that goes into the discussions on there is always amazing to me.. I mean, having to navigate around all these spaces carefully as a man, especially a white cishet one, seems incredibly hard and I am glad there is a place that y'all can talk about what is bothering you. Sometimes I do wish that there was more casual conversations though as you probably need that in this difficult time. Things will get better, they always take some time, but I hope you can find some good folks to help you through it. I suggest this sub to men all the time, it really seems great! And go you for seeing how you could fall into a destructive rabbit hole, and taking the steps to prevent that is awesome. I bet their is a lot of comfort that these groups provide that is hard to turn away from. Your future self (and girl) thanks you!


Mysterious-Weakness1

Sounds like a great community to discuss issues safely. I'm glad you open your mind to their perspectives to understand the struggles of each community or group of people. You are totally right tho, I need to surround myself with a positive community unlike mgtow. Thanks again for your support!


IHaveABigDuvet

Sometimes we use these cognitve frames to protect us from the pain that we are feeling. I would suggest turning *into* the pain. Look it in the eye. Express your greif. Try to understand your actions and her actions. And after, try and see if they're are any changes you can make to prevent that happening again. Sorry about your heartbreak.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Thank you for your comment. I've definitely been trying my best to feel my emotions when they come and go. I understand I can only grow if I feel my pain and why I'm feeling it. You put it very well, and I sincerely appreciate your support.


IHaveABigDuvet

Wow, this is so emotionally intellegent, and to be honest its a technique a lot of therapists would recommend in treatment. Im proud of you.


bruhcrossing

It’s even easier if you felt wronged by the ex, or you decide you feel like they left you for someone richer/more in shape/more alpha


Mysterious-Weakness1

Ya, I can totally see that for someone who falls deep into mgtow. Right now, I can only hope that isn't the case. I don't have any social medias (beside this, i GUESS), so I'm lucky I can stay away from her instagram in that aspect. It'd kill me inside if I saw her with a new person already. We didn't break up for anything toxic, or wrong tho. Just moving away for school for a few years and differences on opinions on family. So I don't hold anything bitter against her, but I do miss what we had.


firewalkwithme0926

I think you’re already 100% prepared to be a different person than a MGTOW, because this comment tells me (from the surface level I can read at least) that you see your ex as a person. They didn’t exist to serve you, and likewise your reason for parting was a totally logical, albeit difficult, decision. If I can share something I learned in therapy, your feelings are real and deserve to be felt fully. If you’re sad, or even angry, experience that fully. Give those emotions the space they’re going to take one way or another, learn what you can from them, and move forward. I think the ignoring emotions and holding bitterness is what separates a MGTOW from a fully realized member of society. Breakups suck ass and there’s no way around that. But if you’re starting from the idea that your ex is a complex person just like you, I have faith you’ll be okay in the end.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Thank you for commenting, and thank you for sharing advice you've received from therapy. Ever since another tragic event in my life, I completely decided to throw away the notion that men can't feel emotions, that it's "unmanly." I guess I've been doing just what you say, and experiencing the emotions I'm feeling, and not bottling them up. The more perspectives I read, the more I agree with what you say that a mgtow is just bitter (may have been wronged by someone, too) and never worked on their emotions and mental health in a proper, healthy way. Ya I definitely have all the respect for my previous girlfriend. She had been working SO hard in her PTA program and was just about to start her first clinical the day after we broke up. I was so stoked and proud of her and couldn't wait to hear all about each one of her days there. Still wish I could :/ thanks again for your comment. It's very encouraging to hear great advice from people like you.


greeneyedwench

I have to ask, and I don't mean this in a nasty way, if that's how and why you broke up, what about MGTOW is speaking to you? You have firsthand evidence right in front of you that relationships can just...break up, for good but sad reasons, without anyone involved being an asshole or cheating. MGTOW would have you believe it's just an endless series of people trading in their partners on new models, and that's just not reality, or at least not all of reality.


Mysterious-Weakness1

You bring up a very valid point. You make me think about it, and I think what drives me to them, is just being down and bummed about losing the love of my life. MGTOW comes around right when I needed a hand to pull me up, and helps me to feel like I have someone to be heard by. To me, MGTOW is an iceberg of sexism, with its surface full of male support. So I feel supported by males who have similar experiences or worse and that's what sucks me in. I also have zero luck with girls (no matches on dating apps after running out of girls to swipe on, never had an experience in person that wasn't rejection), so I acknowledge that makes me feel like "screw all girls" but I don't want to be like that. However, not feeling that way is difficult for me with my experiences, and MGTOW comes into play there too, validating how I feel. While I still acknowledge I shouldn't feel that way. I hope that makes sense, and thank you for asking your question. I don't at all take it in a nasty way. I'm trying to learn and grow.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Mysterious-Weakness1

Thank you for your comment, and advice in your second paragraph. No, I truly don't see women as manipulating animals, but that's really how the red pill mgtows generalize them all. That's another aspect that I find sexist and disgusting. I believe every group of humans have aholes in them, there are PLENTY of male manipulators as well as there are some females. But no, I do not believe they're all out to do so. I do acknowledge tho that if I were to watch too much mgtow crap without seeking the outside perspective, I'd probably end up believing it and becoming misogynistic for sure. I like that there are science based advice resources out there. It's more than just this pseudoscience science of women these dudes tend to throw out. Because ya, some of it is so disgusting to hear and is all based on gross generalization.


greeneyedwench

The solution, then, is to avoid it! :) There's no law that you have to watch any MGTOW crap at all. Just stay away from it and it won't infect you.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Haha yes, at this point, it may be best to avoid it. I always open my perspective up to opposing points, so I can feel ok with myself for at least hearing what they believe. You can't see the correct way, without knowing about all the ways. I can acknowledge already that they are overall sexist, and I could easily get sucked into that if I trapped myself in that echo chamber of thought.


PukeyFace

I’m sorry you’re going through a break-up from a long-term relationship. That’s always tough. As others have mentioned here, focusing on yourself and taking time to mourn the loss of the relationship is a good plan of action (because it is a loss. It’s the loss of what you thought your future was going to be and of the comfort and situation you were in. It’s not just valid to mourn; it’s expected and healthy.). The point though is to mourn and move forward. If that second part is exceedingly difficult after a bit of time, I might suggest reaching out to a trustworthy therapist, who can listen without judgment and suggest how to move forward with life. (Not that a therapist is absolutely necessary, but I didn’t see it suggested so I thought it was worth mentioning, and I’ll get into why) Personally, I’ve been dealing with what I would call a slow break-up; my partner and I know we’ve outgrown one another after these six years, and we want different things from our relationships (off-the-bat, he wants kids, and I cannot have kids. He doesn’t want to foster or adopt, but that’s the only option I can offer.) Despite us not actually disliking one another, it’s tough breaking off from someone we were comfortable with. I’ve seen a therapist to assist in working through my feelings in a productive way, because ultimately I don’t resent him and *don’t want to* resent him or other potential partners who may end up having similar, and totally understandable, goals in mind while looking for a partner. But much like generalized misandry wouldn’t help me whatsoever in working through the dissolution of my relationship, generalized misogyny/MGTOW wouldn’t help you or anyone in working through a break-up. And from your post, you already seem very aware of that. People are people, imperfect, sometimes selfish, and trying our best, however that manifests. Some are more terrible or toxic than others, but labeling a whole identity off of the shitty actions of a rare few does no one any good overall. Neither does an echo chamber that amplifies the rhetoric that the shitty few represent *everyone*.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Solid advice! Everyone's support on here has been great, but there have been a few of you with such solid advice that made me glad I actually did post this. Thank you so much for taking time to share your thoughts and story. My last girlfriend and I also broke up for the most good reason as it can be. We never had any issues and I genuinely thought she could be the one. However, she grew uncomfortable with the idea of long distance, unfortunately, as I got into PT school one state away. And the biggest reason (as you can understand), she began to want kids after her sister got knocked up and I really really don't think I do. Lots of personal reasons that get in the way of that for me. That's very good advice tho with the break up being two parts, and to see a therapist if the second part is taking a relatively long time. I never have, but I am open to it. It's mainly a money thing for me and being on my mother's insurance in the past (she's the kind of person to open my mail and poke and prod why I went to the doctor's or therapist no matter how personal it is). I still have so many little things I kept from each one of our dates, or little gifts and notes she gave me that are SO difficult to get rid of... Again, I appreciate your advice, and your time to share it with me. You all are such great people to lend these words to me.


[deleted]

"If you think you love her, cheat on her. If you feel bad, then she's the one. Keep doing this periodically to be sure." was Tik Tok satire poking fun at FDS advice, one of the guys just gender swapped it. don't pay it any mind.. if you want to take time away from the rat race, working to better yourself, do so.. go get your mind right.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Is it really just satire?? THANK GOODNESS. I was like, DUDE. This is such evil advice hahaha. Well if the original creator of this was serious, male or female, then WOW. What a horrible person haha.


[deleted]

yea, most of the Tik Tok mgtow content is rebranded FDS advice, read the comments on them for a real eye opener, it's silly.


dieinhelll

MGTOW is not terrible in theory, it’s just that in practice it comes down to men “going their own way” by constantly bitching about women. But the idea of self-development, being happy single, and not relying on validation from others is good advice. Edit: lmao what part of this comment offended someone? MGTOW dude bitching about women?


Mysterious-Weakness1

That's exactly how I was feeling about it. There was so much blatant sexism that just disgusted me, but then some of the dudes had such good words to say. So much mental physical, and life self improvement encouragement and tips. I began to worry I'm getting sucked down a rabbit hole of toxicity just disguised as self help.


JangoMangoJango

What does mgtow even mean lol


[deleted]

MGTOW is "Men Going Their Own Way" it's the idea that the world we live in is very gynocentric in it's laws, etc. and instead of trying to equalize it, they throw their hands up and say "F\*ck it, not my problem anymore." but as a whole it was meant to be a place to heal and grow after the fact.. or it used to be, due to the banning of a few subs like Incels, trp, etc.. they all flocked to the MGTOW subs polluting it with Incel rage(rage from the lack of sex because x, y, & z.. boiled down, "women suck, but i love them.. blah, blah, blah") & redpill rage (the realization that all they believed was false and the anger that ensued), anti woman this and that, etc.. contributing to the belief that MGTOW men are toxic when in reality, they are hurt, lost, and in need of guidance from someone other than "for profit self help gurus" that specialize in misinformation. to put a silly spin on it, MGTOWs "just want to be left alone in their swamp".. i kid you not, watch Shrek as social commentary piece, Mike Myers was ahead of his time. now the only bastion for advice they have is being flooded with astroturf, FDS trolls and those from the banned servers so that'll be going away soon.


JangoMangoJango

Great explanation, thank you very much. What do you think about all of this.


Mysterious-Weakness1

He explains it pretty well. He also brings up a good point that incels and red pill folks ended up combining forces with mgtow to become the team of super bitter people. On the surface, it begins with feelings of being heard and support. But under the surface, there is so much blatant sexism and toxicity.


[deleted]

"On the surface, it begins with feelings of being heard and support. But under the surface, there is so much blatant sexism and toxicity." it should be "On the surface, it begins with so much blatant sexism and toxicity. But under the surface, there is so much feelings of being heard and support." but i understand why some would think that, with the incels who frequent these subs only to butcher women.. and the SPLC labeling it a terrorist org due to them. like any other thing in life, given enough time, it too will be corrupted. personally, i've never harbored hatred for women as i was raised by them but i wasn't blind to how they got things done, it was often comical.


Sefcina77

Don’t know what kind of MGTOW you are watching but that’s not at all what its about. Its about men who were used only for their money and work or even just looks and then lost their children even though the wife was fucking someone else because he wasn’t at home while working 2 jobs or his dick wasn’t 9 inches. MGTOW is where men help each other in their 20’s to learn skills and make their own life path. Its about helping them make their own goals and then helping them live the way to make it happen. MGTOW isn’t about not having women or having more women, its fullfiling your own potential as a man.


positivecel

Mgtow ideology doesnt make no sense, u already got pun why u want to listen to retarded divorced boomers like unless u want to talk about divorce MGTOW ideology is useless.


Lets-Make-Love

trad wife = happy life


Healthy_Stage4303

Dude it’s not just breakups, I got sucked into trp after a string of bad rejections. Two years of my life absorbing poison that left me even lonelier and angrier. It’s been 3 years since I woke up and I’m still trying to unlearn that garbage. I’d say I’m 90% there. TRP and MGTOW are horrible rabbit holes that need to be erased. I’d even say NoFap is terrible too because it feeds men into these rabbit holes


MakeItSoQ

Not sure which MGTOW content you are looking at, but there are a wide range of content producers using that acronymn. You don't have to believe all of it. You can let ideas that seem good resonate with you, and reject the bad ones. The general idea of MGTOW is about putting yourself first, and don't let women take advantage of you through marriage or other means of coercion/manipulation. So much of MGTOW is misunderstood because the message is clouded by a few bitter individuals with a toxic agenda. It is about going your way, and there are many ways to go, some dark and strange.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Ya, good way of thinking of it. It seemed to have such a great message of self improvement, but those bitter individuals in the community were making me worried. I said on another reply here that it felt like I may be going down a rabbit hole of toxicity similar to that of the incel community, but disguised as men's self help.


MakeItSoQ

I hear ya. I regularly listen to Sandman's channel. A long time he said that incels could turn out to be problematic for the image of MGTOW. In fact, he said it so long ago that incel wasn't even a term yet and Sandman referred to those bitter type of undateable guys as "true forced loneliness". A few years ago there was some unhinged guy named "Angry MGTOW" who started a channel that was getting a lot of views. He had some misogynistic views and also went down far right political rabbit holes as I recall. He seemed like a very hurt individual. I can't imagine that having the banner in his name made MGTOW any more appealing to those on the fence about what it stood for.


Mysterious-Weakness1

Seems as if it's very easy for someone angry and or bitter to fall into the bad side of mgtow for all the bad reasons. To use it as an outlet to trash those who are deemed to have wronged them (women), and receive praise and validation for it.


MakeItSoQ

Unfortunately, I think that's why it gets such a bad wrap. By the way, I got banned from r/MGTOW for commenting that a meme someone posted was just far-right tradcon propaganda. Sad that those disgruntled guys are ruining the party, because the general idea could be such a positive and beneficial thing.


SignalAVirtueToday

>I got banned from r/MGTOW for commenting that a meme someone posted was just far-right tradcon propaganda. lol, you got banned for that? I've been vaguely keeping tabs on this post and have been tempted to [moderate] you for MGTOW apologia, but that's fucking hilarious. On the one hand I'm half-convinced the term isn't worth attempting to defend because it's inseparable from guys who are just total bags of dicks, but on the other hand I still self-identify as a communist even though there are a bunch of bags of dicks that claim to be "communist" (holodomor happened, tankies are wrong, and the People's Republic of China and/or North Korea aren't really "communist")


MakeItSoQ

>I've been vaguely keeping tabs on this post and have been tempted to \[moderate\] you for MGTOW apologia, but that's fucking hilarious. lol I don't mean to be an apologist for it. I get why you have a bad opinion of it - I'll agree a lot of toxic people with their own radical political ideas do associate with it. But, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying "focus on yourself and don't end up in a bad situation", which is how I see the acronym. I think what you say about the communist connotations is a good analogy. But, I think an even better example is BLM. I have quite a few friends who support the core idea of it, and I do too because I think there should be humanity in the way police work is conducted. However, some people watch riot and looting footage and equate that with BLM the movement.


SignalAVirtueToday

Also: I can't underline how fucking hilarious it is you got banned for that comment it's got like +5 karma so the r/MGTOW admins can't even pretend they banned you for being unpopular. Like /r/TheBluePill moderation is pretty much entirely "any moderator can ban you for any reason" and I think we manage to be more "just" than that.


SignalAVirtueToday

>I think an even better example is BLM. I ain't buying this like the worst thing you can attribute to #BLM is like a couple of chain stores getting burnt down and some nazi-adjacent "concerned conservatives" getting beat up or: (even worse) Professional Sports players have done (approved by league, symbolic) "disruptions" to draw attention to social justice "causes" And like that ain't nothing compared to what Pol Pot did in the name of "communism" ADDENDUM/edit: like, the thing all these dumbass manosphere reactionaries are *utterly horrified and/or scandalized* about is the part where soul-less capitalist meat grinder corporations have made the *Realpolitik* decision it's more profitable to appeal to the gays and/or blacks and/or women than it is to be dog-whistle-y racist.