T O P
shnicklefritz

There's a special place in heaven for open source devs - where the senior devs roam free to mentor the juniors, the PMs are former devs with realistic timelines, the features are fully fleshed-out with complete scope, and merge conflicts simply don't exist


Buharon

I wept


lightwhite

I sobbed


Aletag

I cried


cptjakey

I cummed


Levitupper

I conquered


PhoenixPaladin

I conquered as well


SavageTwist

I conquered a well


TheOfficialPope

Veni


Puritanicall

Vidi


Stormer11

Vici


GioPowa00

Vici


pmtitsorelse

Nice ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


chaotic_evil_666

Ah yes... The four steps of shame masturbation. You're ready for step 5. Furry porn.


SweatIRL

I peed


[deleted]

Dev heaven... Jr: So how long will I be a junior dev? Sr: Eternity


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letitbeirie

If hell is being an overpaid 24-year old with no responsibilities again I need to make a determined effort to sin more.


Seienchin88

This here. Still a bit in awe that some American devs are often so young and inexperienced - while being paid twice what a senior dev in Europe is paid who also went longer to university. That being said - Corona is the biggest thread to the American dev community when it comes to their income. I have seen already a lot of big players scouting more in Brazil and Europe inserts of hiring in the US. With homeoffice and no clear need for developers to be in a certain location wages will trend towards a global standard everywhere


UncatchableCreatures

Just ladder jump kids! Don't be loyal to a company because you think your company is loyal to you, minus the fact that they do not promote you. You stunt your own career.


KalebC4

Deven…


M-Fed

Dell


jimjong1

Beat me to it, but it still made me laugh seeing it


voluntarycap

Many companies pay for open source contribution. Source: I work at a top company that does so


butumm

So how does that work? Does your open source project benefit the company, so they let you work on it on the clock? Or is it just considered a good thing that advances your learning?


pand1024

My company has a set of guidelines, for contributing, hosts hackathons, donates to open source projects, and has teams of developers that work on open source stuff. I think most of that still comes back to beneft the company. It just takes a bit of foresight from execs to realize that.


alexanderpas

Most of the time, it's the former, but the latter also happens enough, and the former might turn into the latter. Also, it's kind of a prestige thing to have well known community members in your company.


IamImposter

Can confirm. I ported few cuda libraries and my company gave me an opensourse repo and asked me to upload my code there and maintain it. The purpose was we wanted to showcase our ability to work with cuda and port it to other languages like opencl and oneapi. We didn't generate any business out of it as our dept changed direction but I got a little popular in some circles in my company as the guy who ports cuda.


A1_B

it's always going to advance your learning for the most part, unless you're working on something proprietary with more knowledge than its open source counter part, which is rare. many companies use open source software, since usually the open source option has the most complete form of a tool and you don't need to pay licensing etc, and then the same way they'd ask the providing company if it were a paid-for only piece of software for a new feature, they pay someone to make it in the open source one, except everyone usually benefits when they submit to the main repo.


melpomenestits

I mean, open source programs are good. Companies want good software. Companies sometimes fund open source development.


jaymef

If your Aws you make billions selling services Based on open source software.


Mr_Canard

If you're a company that depends on an open source library would you rather pay the dev for additional features and tech support or watch it get abandoned after a while with no one maintaining it.


gamebuster

My company does open source contributions. Usually to fix bugs we encounter in OSS, or just for fun (“exposure”). We’re a small company though. Sometimes clients are impressed by our contributions


1337Gandalf

I mean, Clang for example is staffed by Intel, AMD, ARM, Apple, Google, and more... just because it's open source, does NOT mean that people only contribute in their free time. Source: Actual (minor) Clang contributor who does so on his own time.


EnderMB

Some companies also contribute in order to drive direction. I used to use a open-source CMS that supported Oracle DB's. The reason for this was because a company wanted to use this CMS, but their main DB's were all Oracle - so they worked out a deal with the maintainer and invested heavily in the development of both the CMS and supporting Oracle. This company no longer exists, and Oracle is no longer supported, but that initial injection took them from 2-3 devs to around 50 - and eventually formed a company behind the product when the company wound down.


tanon789

Same. There is a huge misconception about open source being developed for free. I would guess that most of actually useful open source code is developed by paid developers.


RomanOnARiver

Yeah I came to say this as well. The majority of kernel contributions are from companies/commercial entities.


sordalumni

Absolutely, but a little bit against OP's point, some of the best open source projects do have a profit motive behind them. Various Red hat projects, Chrome and other Google projects, Visual Studio Code, Docker, etc. ~~With obvious exceptions like the Linux Kernel itself, for example.~~ Edit: I didn't know about the Kernel. TIL! Makes a lot of sense though.


RomanOnARiver

The kernel isn't an exception - the same commercial companies you mentioned for their userland programs are some of the top kernel contributors as well.


TheRavenSayeth

Bitwarden for example is probably the best overall password manager out there right now. They’re open source and their goal is certainly a for-profit model.


L3tum

Even the Linux kernel maintainers (at least the core ones) do get paid for their work. Most contributions are from companies, that do pay their employees. At a certain size every FOSS project gets some kind of money incentive.


porki90

Offtopic but I can't believe bookstack,kanboard and vikunja exist and are free.


Vegedus

>where the senior devs roam free to mentor the juniors Is that actually what seniors want? I was more under the impression they wanted to be left alone so they can write some code for once, instead of answering stupid questions.


noneOfUrBusines

This is probably from the perspective of a junior dev.


jeanravenclaw

No bugs! Ah, I would love that!


Strongbox-Comrade

I don't think I would. I like the feeling that comes after: "Why the fuck did that happen?!" 20 minutes of anger reading and log("x",x) later "Ah, it is because I am an idiot, now it is fixed"


finger_milk

I mean you could just say you're into BDSM and it would take less words.


psycho_dank

Client: I want an e-commerce website like amazon or ebay where people can sell and buy stuff. PM: Yea we can do that in a week, 2 weeks max.


VMGuy23temporary

The type of place where someone who can barely code improves the code


ThatFireGuy0

You'd be surprised how much some companies will pay devs to work on Open Source code


coloredgreyscale

* cheaper than licensing an equivalent commercial solution * easier / possible to adapt to their very specific edge case needs * no cost barrier for enthusiasts to run in their home lab - > save training cost for new employees (and employees may earn more and have other benefits from the tech being available / affordable)


RedditAcc-92975

* Can hire best devs in the world at an affordable price. I just simply don't understand why so few companies going open-source nowdays.


OlympoksenPrinssi

The desire to have something which can be leveraged into more profit. And of course the belief that code could be a business secret.


ThrowMeAway11117

tbf internal tech, and intellectual property are some of the few valuable things that companies in my industry (games) have.


probablynotaskrull

Every time I see passionate people doing weird stuff like painting cats, or knitting coats for trees I smile and tell my wife: “See? People are never going to run out of things to do.” Keep doing your weird shit, I’m right there with you.


ChillySummerMist

Who paints a cat?


snookso

Have you never painted a cat? Even in kindergarten?


jagwaguar

Wtf sounds like animal cruelty


Habba84

Pfft, never had a cat who didn't like it! Mostly because I'm allergic.


ChillySummerMist

I am not sure painting a cat is a good idea. Also washing it later would be alot of hassle too.


snookso

Wait oof I read that wrong. You're right.


Ever2naxolotl

Me when someone uses JavaScript


Stanov

But now it's EcmaScript and it is not that weird as in 2011! /s


roshambo11

Can’t wait for the release of LigmaScript in 2022


Bo3lwa98

Since when do I do weird shit????


DevilsLaxative

Dude, this is a Wendy's


1731799517

The question is not whether people are there to do weired shit, the question is about doing the annoying crap that needs to be done.


Lord_Ratte

"Not all \[profit\] is silver and gold, mate"


LEGOL2

From today on, we cut your pay in half. Sincerely HR


alexanderpas

If the benefits of that are no more costs of housing and food for the rest of my life.... that is an acceptable deal.


ThisAintBuildABitch

I can imagine it now. A one room shitty apartment to share with 3 other coworkers, with poor ventilation, clogged toilet, only cold water and so on, while being served leftovers that the neighboring prisons inmates did not want. At least if a big corporation was put in charge of your lodging and food needs with a budget of half an average persons pay.


sinat50

Volunteer firemen get paid a decent amount I'm pretty sure? It's more of an on call position which is why they call it volunteer. After a while of volunteering you can get moved up to a permanent position with better pay and more concrete hours unless there's some crazy emergency. That's how it goes in Canada at least


riboy98

Intresting how it is in Canada, but as a volunteer firemen in Europe I can assure you that we don't get paid anything. The main motivation for most of us is helping people in need and getting together in a firestation on weekends for equipment inspection and drinking a beer or two in the evening with our colleagues.


palmierimario000

The profit in this case is not money but love


[deleted]

Productivity would skyrocket if nobody had to worry about where their next meal was coming from. Only thing is, it's not the kind of productivity that benefits shareholders, so it never happens.


Srapture

I would do literally nothing productive at all if I didn't have to work. Eat, sleep, play games, drink with pals, do fun activities with pals, sleep, sleep, sleep. I would mainly just enjoy getting more than 4-5 hours sleep a night.


ikeyama

Nah, after a couple of months of such life you would be bored as fuck and start doing something. Trust me, been there.


Srapture

I'd probably get back to recording, mixing, and mastering songs for the band, if that counts as productive. Very time consuming.


Fancy-Ad-6020

You'd be super productive at wasting time and looking at memes though


Howrus

>Eat, sleep, play games, drink with pals, do fun activities with pals, sleep, sleep, sleep. "Thanks" to the COVID I been doing exactly this (maybe not that much fun activities with pals), and after 6 months I was bored to hell and got a job. Ideally I would want to work 4 hours per day, with something like 3-4 working days per week. Unfortunately it's almost impossible to find such schedule, so back to normal "40 hour per week" life.


elveszett

Fine. We don't need 100% of the active population working at all. Automation has gone so far already that we no longer need everyone spending their life working to make sure food reaches our tables.


Mean-Rutabaga-1908

Doesn't benefit most stakeholders, not just shareholders. Have you ever seen the meme that is people describing what they will do in the global commune? It is always the most asinine useless crap.


Miguelinileugim

Yeah because those people don't know economics, sociology or anything else. In reality they'd still be heavily pressured to be doctors or engineers or something useful to society regardless. Except instead of the carrot and being fucking evicted approach it'd be a carrot and nothing else approach.


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Hoihe

I would spend 30 hours a week working on computational chemistry research, 10 hours just studying any form of science. Rest is free time. Most I know would do the same, except replace comp chem with their own field.


Pepito_Pepito

>replace comp chem with their own field How many of them would work the rice fields?


Krautoffel

Except it would actually benefit shareholders in the long term if the work force was happy, well-rested and healthy. Because guess what makes people more productive and less prone to errors and mistakes?


Josselin17

the thing is happy and healthy people would have a way easier time negotiating with their employer, unionizing, etc. it's not about productivity, it's about maintaining their power


TheResolver

Workplace-supplied peebottles?


nocivo

Well, would benefit nobody because we would starve. Do you think everybody would work on food industry as a hobby for free for the rest of the world? Trade and free market was what actually free up time for those people to have those hobbies or those jobs. Cheap food and tools exists because with trade and efficiency to increase the profit we allow these kind of jobs.


Rajarshi0

Yeah lot of modern people saying oh if We haven’t been needing money world would have been so productive. Well did money came first or humans? Why humans needed money in the first place? This just shows how affluent we have become that we forget the basics that if there is no work there is no food.


0x003_

Coercion doesn't make the world go around, and we wouldn't suddenly starve because nobody was holding homelessness against us anymore. People would still serve food, people would still perform vital functions to keep the world turning without being forced into doing so. So yes, I think people would still do what they need to do, like make sure people are fed, without a profit motive. For the same reason functional adults do housework and chores, because it's what needs to be done. Same with society.


incomparability

>Coercion doesn’t make the world go around Coercion is quite literally all of human history.


SrKami1

People do homework for themselves, not for random people. If you are going to compare something, I would compare the streets, and people throw piles and piles of trash in the streets.


madmaxlemons

And what system encourages making so much fucking trash?


C-DT

Theoretically, what if people decide that they don't want to do things for no reward? How do we ensure people are fed, clothed, sheltered, etc. ?


trivialportal

Absolutely. And even if people don't work like that, then we're fucked anyway with how dissatisfied people are with the way things currently are. So either way something needs to change and it's NOT the labor force.


MooseMaster3000

The argument you’re making is the same incorrect argument people try to make about healthcare not being profitable in countries that provide it. As if they don’t have doctors. Even if we lost a third of food production, and we have no reason to think we would, that’d still be less than we waste currently and there’d still be more than enough to feed everyone. If food production wasn’t for-profit, then there’d be no incentive to work as few workers as possible to the bone ten hours a day. We’d absolutely have enough people, even if they didn’t necessarily want to do it, if the job took half as long but you still didn’t have to worry about surviving.


omen_wand

I would love to see someone interview 100 farmers (or anyone in the supply chain) and asking them whether they would keep farming if they won the lotto. I have a feeling more than 33 would say no lmao.


FuckFashMods

Farming is a famously easy job that people would do for fun even if they didn't get paid. It's not the bedrock of civilization at all.


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Thibbledorf_Pwent

Whaaaaat? Are you saying people wouldn't keep doing back breaking, life shortening, hard labor and/or shitty jobs out of the goodness of their hearts for the sake of humanity? You don't think just like, giving everyone houses and then telling them only to go out and make cool minecraft worlds or pursue their hobbies or some shit would make a utopia?!


SrKami1

Yeah sure people love doing hard work on a mid day sun for people behind a computer writing wikipedia articles! Did you ever go to a farm bro?


[deleted]

The thought of paying farmers more to increase their quality of life never even crossed your mind huh


jnd-cz

Farmers are already heavily subsidized. In many countries they receive compensation if they produce too much or too little (depending on weather in that year) so they literally can't go broke.


Ninjakannon

This is so against my experience, I don't know where to begin


Orc_

> Productivity would skyrocket if nobody had to worry about where their next meal was coming from. By the time such thing exists in the world (I'm optimistic at around 10 years) productivity from AIs would alreayd be so high being productive yourself in those fields becomes pointless. All that will be left is passion projects and that's beautiful.


RedditAcc-92975

You'd be surprised how close USA was to UBI (Universal Basic Income) in the 70s. It went through the Parlament twice. Other countries tried as well. Currently Spain is considering the idea.


neutch___

UBI for the win!


elveszett

Not only productivity, but a shit ton of other factors too: - Companies wouldn't be able to have you work in bad conditions or exploit you, because you don't need them to live. - You could properly work in your mental health, since you can take a year off or something if you feel like it. - People would have a lot more opportunities to start their own business. - Minimum wage wouldn't be necessary. A job that isn't profitable if the salary is, let's say, above $6 / h wouldn't be an abherration because the people taking that job would be taking it because they want, not because they need it. - A shit ton of social safety nets could be cut or greatly reduced, which would save the costs not only of said subsidy but also of all the bureaucracy needed to get that help. - People who struggled in their childhood for many reasons would be able to do their studies and career later in life. Having to start college when you are 24 is a hassle. - You don't have massive socioeconomical crisis whenever something changes. Automation, for example, is desolating millions of jobs, and that wouldn't be much of a concern if people losing those jobs still had some income. So tl;dr universal income solves a lot of problems, protects us from the everchanging environment we live in, and allows everyone to live with dignity no matter how tough their life is.


GeneralKlink

It also wouldn’t be the kind of productivity that benefit a lot of people. Maintaining a prosperous society takes a lot of work, and most of it is not much fun, but it‘s necessary.


The_Nautilator

if you're considering playing video games and browsing social media productive, sure.


bearfuckerneedassist

The congress turtle is a piece of shit


voxtel

I'm usually very sensitive about turtles, and very protective. But I know exactly who you're talking about.


t0b1n4tOr315

I don’t get it


GordonBednarz

I assume they are talking about Kentucky senator, Mitch McConnell because he kinda looks like a turtle ​ Edit: ...and he's a piece of shit


The_Adventurist

This was largely the attitude of programmers in early Silicon Valley, especially in the "free software movement" with Richard Stalman. In almost all cases, the programs developed by enthusiastic programmers and released for free were better than their commercially developed, proprietary counterparts. Bill Gates played a big role in destroying that early Silicon Valley culture by suing the hell out of everyone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_and_open_source


Polumbo

Each of the examples have to also have an actual job that pays, or they are financially dependent on someone else (glares at Minecraft players)


ShaqilONeilDegrasseT

>Each of the examples have to also have an actual job that pays Ok so after a hard days work, they choose to use their limited free time to do these things. I dont understand how that takes away from the point at all, in fact, it might strengthen it.


WernerderChamp

But still they invest their free time.


woahwombats

Sure but I don't think the OP was saying otherwise. True they wouldn't be able to volunteer (or live) without a separate income, but the volunteer stuff they do is still done "with no profit motive".


Cactorum_Rex

Profit is a good motive to do jobs that nobody wants to do. Profit is ironically the best motivator when dealing with a collective of people with conflicting interests. If there was nobody willing to create open source code, or nobody willing to volunteer as firefighters, or nobody willing to create Wikipedia, paid alternatives for each would appear to fill in the gaps. TLDR; The statement in the post is wrong because it is an absolute statement, not because of it's views on profit as a motivator. Profit is not the only motivator, but it is one of the best.


1731799517

Also, tons of people want to hack some new code for fun. Not so many want to write 1000+ pages of process documentation for some complex piece of work and be criminally liable in case of error.


Luatex_

I don't think the point of the post is 'Profit bad' but to show there are other motivators besides profit as well.


derpy-dumbass

Sure. For hobbies and stuff. When was the last time you dug a ditch for fun?


Vacuum-energy

When I was a kid I did dig ditches for fun. Ergo, we should make kids work in mines. Oh no!


ZeAthenA714

You mean like the volunteers building houses for the poor?


waltteri

But there’s the feel-good factor, so it’s by definition nice and fun. Nobody’s volunteering to build houses for the lower middle class rent dwellers, of whom like a third of the developed world is comprised.


ZeAthenA714

Yes, that's the point. That's exactly the point. People can be motivated by different things, and some of those things are not profit. Some people do things for fun, some people do things to help others, some people do things to better themselves, there's a ton of motivations apart from profit or fun.


jnd-cz

How many of those are out there? It's very small number and I'm afraid in my country it's not a thing at all. So volunteering building houses would never cover the housing needs in any country.


gereffi

Usually I see this argument go along with someone saying that we should live in communes, everything should be free, and people will donate their time because they want to. Sure, some people might have hobbies that take a lot of time and effort like open source coding or wikipedia editing, but those are cushy hobbies that couldn't exist without a lot of hard labor that people wouldn't do voluntarily. To do any of these things you need people to mine and ship all of the raw materials in a computer, factory workers to process those materials and turn them into parts of a functioning computer, pilots and truck drivers to ship those computers around the world, people to work at the power plant, and people to install and maintain the power lines to your home. Nobody is going to do any of those things just so that you can sit at home and build a Minecraft world. To keep society progressing we either need financial incentives or totalitarian rule where everyone is forced into working whichever job is chosen for them.


nizzy2k11

You did read the quote on the image right?


Greenei

Then it's arguing against a strawman. Who actually thinks that nobody in the world would have any productive hobby if the profit motive was eliminated? It would just be woefully inadequate to keep an industrial civilization running.


zeropublix

Just here to mention that „open-source“ does not mean profit free. Open source is more of a buzz word from companies.


rubennaatje

Open source is very much not a buzz word. But yeah true it doesn't mean profit free.


BBM_Dreamer

Perhaps not in it's true definition, but I'd strongly argue it is becoming a buzz word in the boardroom. Likely not used correctly, but when has that ever stopped the English language haha


finance_n_fitness

Having a well known open source project in your portfolio guarantees you high paid work for life.


socialismnotevenonce

Thinking the majority of open source maintainers aren't paid for what they do is something a college undergrad believes. Regardless, hobbies aren't careers. And Minecraft? Really? How is what they do productive? It's purely for their own entertainment. Nobody else outside of the game benefits from it.


StrangeCurry1

Agreed, things like volunteer firefighting isn’t “working for no reward” you are helping to protect your community


cashmo

And most volunteer firefighters actually get paid for any response time, they just aren't paid to sit around the firehouse waiting for a call.


riyadhelalami

Most scientists throughout history did discoveries with barely any money going to them, they did it because they did it because they were curious. We aren't denying that profit is a motivator, but it isn't the only motivator.


Shakespeare257

I am sorry but this clashes so severely with how science/stem works today. Yes, you can achieve great returns on no resources invested in the 17th/18th century or even earlier... because people were discovering first principles shit back then. If you think Faraday or Newton could've dreamed up a 7nm process for etching microchips with no resources... yikes. The law of diminishing returns does apply to science/STEM, which means to get progress you need to throw even more and more people at problems so they get resolved efficiently. If something was "easy" it will likely have already been discovered, which means your spending on "science" has to increase to keep pace with the innovation pace you're used to.


Last_Snowbender

I hate this comparison. All of these things are fun to do. But nobody has fun working in a coal mine for 8 hours a day, and nobody has fun working on a conveyor belt.


MrWFL

Automating conveyer belts can be fun tough.


Barbariandude

I'm sorry, what? In what way is firefighting a fun activity? EDIT: I stand corrected. I would have thought volunteer firefighting would have consisted of more firefighting and less hanging out.


Last_Snowbender

As someone who has spend 6 years with the voluntary fire brigade, I had a ton of fun.


1731799517

Volunteer firefighting (was one myself for nearly a decade before i moved to the city): 95% of time: Hanging around with the guys, drinking beer and "training". 5% of the time: Hey, exciting stuff happens (not much else going on in the village either, so if a car crash or fire happens you would go and look anyways).


WernerderChamp

Aside from having a good time with others, its also a contribution to society itself. Others contribute in different ways, e.g. by being an unpaid trainer for a local sports club. Its not really that much, we have around 1 emergency a month (due to Covid it was even less the last year) and half of them are quickly resolved. We had a burning trash can last month, that thing was extinguished within minutes. A few times a year we have more intense things, mostly car crashes. But overall, its a lot of fun and definitely something that looks good on a CV.


Curri

Every single way possible. It is the best job in the world.


bazooka_penguin

Big tech is probably the biggest contributor to open source. Either through sponsorships and donations or having teams that directly work on FOSS in an official capacity. Intel, for example, was the largest single entity contributor to the Linux kernel although I guess Huawei beat them out the past year. Facebook works on React. Google on Android, Tensorflow. Nvidia on a bunch of scientific computing and ML libraries. Khronos (openGL, openCL, Vulkan) is an industry consortium made up by official reps for Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and a whole slew of other companies. The list goes on.


Tepes1848

Who thinks seriously that profit is only monetary?


loganhimp

Looks like properly cherry picked examples to me. The vast majority of people probably wouldn't spend their days doing what they do if it didn't pay them money. Even open source coders get donations and support payments from generous people to keep projects running.


FalconMirage

This, most people do these kind of things in their free time because money is no issue for them. The majority of the population spend the biggest part of their life working in exchange of money We can’t deny that it’s what’s powering our society


Crowmasterkensei

>The majority of the population spend the biggest part of their life working in exchange of money Because they have to, yes. But not because it's the only reason anyone would do anything.


why_u_mad_brah

The only reason ANYONE would do ANYTHING? No. But it is the only reason most people would do some things. Or do you think there will be people that enjoy cleaning toilets for free?


nuclear_gandhii

While I don't disagree with you, but isn't this exactly the point this post is trying to make? That if people didn't have money as a motivator for them, they'd still find joy in working at things they like?


StoicMess

Imagine if the resources and wealth isn't kept and hoarded by the 0.1% of population. Most people would pursue their interest as their creative outlet without worrying on how to survive.


rainindrain

I used to contribute to open source to improve my resume


Reelix

> Even open source coders get donations and support payments from generous people to keep projects running. Around 0.0001% of them - Sure.


jnd-cz

Much more than that and Wikipedia is one of the examples where they rely on donations to at least pay for the servers. I don't think anybody is offering working for free in computer shop, chip factory, or power plant but all of those are needed to run Wikipedia.


germanatlas

Tbf, thats how many percent of people on the planet which are affiliated with any of these?


ConversationSevere33

Ever seen someone be a janitor for free?


A55per

Volunteer firefighters get paid.


underd0se

Social currency/visibility is the profit here.


yabai90

Well there are always a motive for sure but it's not direct financial profit for them it's true. Although being an open source contributor helps you negotiate and get better at your job ultimately. Funny enough I'm currently working on something privately in the hope that i can make profit from it and get my way out of working for companies. But that thing would be truly amazing if it was open source since it would literally be the only thing free on the market for that specific demand. I m seriously constantly wondering what I should do. The dilemma is hard and i still don't know what i should do at this point. Does anyone know a good approach to have a project open source but also have financial support from companies to keep it up ?


cyjanek528

Can bragging rights be a motive?


Havoc_Rider

Thank You!


sopunny

I'm not sure Minecraft players are producing anything, they're playing a game. Either way, these are all very narrow examples. Even if there is labor being donated everything else costs money. - Servers (there's a reason wikipedia keeps asking for donations) - Sources that provide the knowledge that goes into Wikipedia - Game dev costs. Microsoft spent a billion just buying Minecraft, plus more to continue developing it - A lot of open source projects are supported by corporate code and donations. Check out how much Google and MS contribute to Linux for example - And even then all open source projects rely on other programs that are for-profit. Good luck developing and distributing without Google, StackOverflow, GitHub, and an ISP - And of course, the computer hardware required for all three. Servers, clients, devs, admins, etc - While the firefighters might be working for free, the equipment still costs money. But it goes waaay beyond that. We developed materials and techniques that make building more fire resistant. Water systems that give the firefighters something to fight fires with. Even just figuring out rules like not parking in front of fire hydrants and having smoke detectors everywhere took money


c-rn

Wikipedia be begging me for money every other time I visit them


Lalaluka

Because there is a difference between doing stuff for free and also paying for your Project on top of it. Maintaining Servers costs, legal costs (for that you might need Employees).


pixelnielsss

Dude they get millions and millions from governments around the world they don't need your money. They just want more of it


nkrush

Money != profit


Tac7icaltacos

Ok but is building a 59 story cock and balls tribute to your gay cousin being productive? Because if so my resume just got a whole line longer


riyadhelalami

It is, did it make you happier or your cousin smile? If so you just did something that made the world a better place


Schmomas

I like the implication that building in Minecraft constitutes ‘productive’.


theFlintstonePhone

Or that it's the only game that you don't earn money by playing? Kind of undercuts the point


ultranoobian

Isn't that the Minecraft library where books are made available to people who can't read them due to censorship?


q-y-q

Wholesome, but why is this on ProgrammerHumor though r/lostredditors


Blackfire2122

Thats bullshit and called anekdotal evidence. Yes there are people who do weird shit just for fun or to be proud of themselves, but thats less than 1% of humankind and simply not a sustainable way for the economy.


donaldhobson

Without profit motive, fewer people would do productive tasks, especially unpleasant ones. Especially where there isn't an oppertunity to boast "look at this cool thing". Also, price can send a signal of importance. You have no idea what the widgets you make are used for, but someones buying them so they must be useful.


henrebotha

…Did you look at the post


electricprism

Sustainability


SheepishBlacksmith

This post assumes profit needs to be monetary. This post doesn't recognize that profit can be joy


GregTheMad

Fun fact: Money isn't the only Profit you can get from your work. Capitalists hate this.


theGreatBeige

The profit motive still exists here. But it's not money


dds120dds120

Cause it’s all free


Design_Early

Not that important BUT volunteer firefighters do get paid, per call and call type. Rural FF average $9k a year.


[deleted]

Unpopular opinion: open source devs do this shit because it's a career booster and looks good on your resume when you apply for a +250k/yr job


PissoirRouge

I'm not sure of the point being made, since all of the people mentioned in the meme profit by their endeavours. The profit is a sense of achievement, contribution to the community, and a boost to their self esteem.


SwiftyTheThief

Not no one. Selfish people. And since MOST people are selfish, most people wouldn't be productive. That's what capitalism does. It turns selfishness into a driving force for other people's good.


Ocbard

All the people working at below minimum wage struggling to survive, let alone live with some kind of dignity... I wouldn't call that working "for profit". If those people didn't live with a virtual knife on their throat, a good load of them would be happy to still work the jobs they do but without the constant dread of being unable to feed themselves and their kids. The biggest difference would not be the work that gets done, but that they would be happy to do it.


Sachees

Well, there is profit. It's something like "anonymous fame" - you can definitely boast with these achievements in front of people.


jeanravenclaw

Even if you don't, there's just some satisfaction when you finish something.


slobcat1337

Anonymous fame isn’t profit though, profit specifically means financial. No one is saying people do these things 100% altruistically, that’s not really the point. The point is that proponents of capitalism usually say humanity won’t innovate/be productive without the motive of financial gain(profit) when actually there are a number of scenarios this has been proved to be false. Gain in social standing/personal fame are reasons people do stuff like this which is fine, the reasons are valid and the axiom put forward by this post is still true.


Dugular

And great for CVs


planktonfun

its not about the money, its about upgrading civilization


FactNo5246

\> Generic memes that can apply to more than just programming as a profession How is this post even accepted here 🤔


HiPoojan

Money should be a demotivator