By - 24identity
Definitely not giving Cheney enough credit
Throw Donald Rumsfeld on the blame pile too
Save room for Paul Wolfowitz
It's the neocon PNAC gang. What a wonderful bunch of fellas who dragged the whole country down for decades.
I was listening to the BBC world service and they let Paul fucking Wolfowitz come on and be interviewed. I literally screamed at the radio. I couldn't believe, after all the shit the neo-cons did people still consider their opinion for ANYTHING.
They had John Yoo on NPR, WNYC, couple years ago. There were some upset callers. Apparently he still teaches at Berleley. Scouting for future war criminal talent, I guess
It started well before that group of clowns when Carter and Charlie Wilson had the CIA train the mujahideen to fight the evil soviets and the Independent was singing the praises of freedom fighter Osama Bin Laden
The problem wasn’t Carter and Wilson’s efforts. It was ditching the place when they had a real chance to build infrastructure and set the country up for success. We helped them beat the Russians back and then hung them out to dry even though ground intelligence was telling the Carter and Reagan administrations to help rebuild the country.
We are a whole nation of bad friends.
[US foreign policy in a nutshell](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/382/062/819.jpg)
Empires nation building and fighting proxy wars in Afghanistan started loooooooong before Carter.
And the whole gang over at Fox 'News'!!! Way to go guys.
Bank account $$$$$$$+++++++>
And let's not forget the rank and file right-winger without whom none of this would be possible.
God Bless those "True Americans," whose uncompromising hostility, self-righteousness, willful ignorance and pathological inability to hold their political allies accountable to basic standards of morality and competence, have made this country what it is today.
Pokemon Go to the Fucking Hague
No Colin Powell holding a vile of anthrax?
Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld should’ve all been in prison for war crimes and murder.
One of the most disgusting and irredeemable things about the past few presidents we had (including the "good" ones) is refusing to try them for their crimes because it would set a "precedent", yeah the kinda precedent that presidents cant just get away with that awful shit, not surprising and very telling none of them want to set that..
Past few Presidents? How about Nixon and his buddy Kisinger's genocide or Reagan's Iran contra attempt. Shit's been going on for a long time since JFK's death.
*JFK’s murder at the hands of the mafia/CIA.* Everyone from Dulles, to J. Edgar Hoover, to Nixon and Kissinger are implicated. Nixon met with Jack Ruby shortly before Kennedy’s assassination and Ruby silenced Oswald (who was a paid CIA asset). Fast forward 5 years, Bobby Kennedy is running against Nixon, wins the primary, and some random assassins out of nowhere storm into the back room of what should’ve been a Secret Service secure location and light him up like a Christmas tree, with ZERO guards to do anything.
Trying them for war crimes committed due to foreign policies, even in our own courts, is to admit you are willing to be bound by international conventions and opinions. To any powerful sovereign state, that is admitting you want to lose your power.
That is never going to happen. Power is power is power. No one, not even America and we pay so much lip service to justice, freedom and liberty will ever willingly abdicate power to kill other people for our interests. If there is 2 buttons and one said "No more oil for your SUVs", and the other button says "Kill a lot of brown people", I can guarantee most Americans will press the latter. We had a chance to undo the mess in 2004, even in 2002 and 2006. We chose more of the same.
Pray very hard America won't end up weak like these countries that get played and bullied because oh boy, we are not people that will handle well being oppressed and fucked.
Also Trump. How he handled the pandemic is definitely grounds for murder in my book.
It is. This also counts with Abbott and DeSantis.
As a reluctant Floridian, fuck DeSantis. I have to choose between my kids getting proper education or DYING because he won't enforce a mask mandate and apparently everyone else here is also a moron.
I've been saying that since last year. Fully agree with you, negligent homicide if anything.
Forget negligent homicide, they've committed depraved-indifference murder. They *know* people will die from their actions but they simply don't care.
Agreed. The orange fat fuck, along with every, single person in his administration should be tried for each death. Too many people died from arrogance, indifference, and know it all-ism.
600,000 Americans dead and counting.
And Obama for same thing, how quick we forget drone bombing civilians on a scale never seen. Cause that will end well when small belligerent nations can do the same.
Trump doubled the number of Obama era drone strikes his first year in office. Trump found out the numbers were openly reported each year and promptly stopped reporting the numbers.
100% this and it's super crazy to me how we get into these meme mindsets. I love a lot of what Obama did but he was not some liberal messiah. I think most of his foreign policy was misguided. But this is the USA and we don't really make decisions based on policy so I don't know.
>I love a lot of what Obama did but he was not some liberal messiah.
I think many people misunderstand what 'liberal' means in American politics.
It does not mean progresssive, humanist, nor doveish/anti-war. Most of the acts and policy positions that may make them appear so are simply an effort to live up to the notions of civil liberty and social equality that are already codified in, or at least not explicitly prohibited by, the constitution and laws of the country.
Obama mostly lived up to the ideal of an ideologically centrist liberal Democrat while not repudiating (in my opinion) unearned accolades from some progressives. Being a politician, you can't fault him on that.
Well if you believe in that stuff, Rummy is definitely in hell now. So we got that going for us, which is nice.
Unfortunately I don’t, so things still just kinda suck
Rumsfeld is already burning elsewhere for his crimes
I think there’s enough mayonnaise in the jar of blame to smear some on his face
Save plenty for British imperialism and the Soviets. Afghanistan has been sloppily meddled in for decades before W started what was, at the time, an invasion that most Americans supported.
Despite this fact…FUCK George W. Bush.
Or all the congresspeople who voted like 99% in favor of the war.
I think both of them are at fault.
Not for nothing but a certain Saudis would have a word if he could
You know who is on TV saying this is all Biden and trump's fault? Fucking Liz Cheney. Every time I think republicans have hit maximum chutzpah they find a new way.
Fucking A! Came here to say this.
Obama gets plenty too. The mission was supposed to be kill Bin Laden, not plant a flag in the middle east and stay there for 20 years. Obama decided on the latter but didn't build a plan on how to do it. Then he talked shit to Russia and looked like an idiot when he didn't have a plan for that either.
Obama also invaded 5 other countries. War is bipartisan.
President Cheney wasn’t at all complicit in this. I wonder how Halliburton shares are doing today?
About as Honeywell.
Aren't Honeywell shares good?
They aren't called Honeybad.
That no bid contract was sexy!
I see you girl! With those protective clauses n shit
I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind except that you happen to be insane.
Legal minded and not uptight. We’re also the best in bed. Orwell knew what was up.
I dream of a better world where chickens can cross the road and not have their motives questioned.
> The AUMF had almost unanimous bipartisan support
Dubya could have gone in, killed bin Laden, and come home 6 months later.
You don't sit idly by while someone under a foreign government's protection kills a bunch of your people. But you don't have to get in a grinding 20 year clusterfuck of a mission or invade Iraq.
THANK YOU. It pisses me off more people aren't focus and pissed about THIS. The decision not to pursue Al-Qaeda into the mountains in Tora Bora during winter 2001-02 is really the what cause the 20 year quagmire, allowed UBL to escape, gave Al-Qaeda an extra ten years of life, and squandered the enormous international support we had, and likely will never see again.
I've said this in comments before, that decision was cowardly, unjustifiable, a betrayal of US interests, and one of, if not, the greatest military blunder in US history.
American forces had Bin Laden hemmed in to an area of something like one square mile when the decision was made to let the 'local forces' take him. You know, the ones he bribed into letting him cross into Pakistan.
Yes! u/InertiasCreep PreachIng the Truth! They knew he was going to get away. I remember some interview Cheney saying how brutal the the winter was and how hard it would’ve been, thinking to myself whats the point of having the most highly trained, best armed fighting force in the world if the pussies in charge are scared of some cold?!?! The motivation level to avenge all those American d tag IN FUCKING MANHATTAN, AT THE PENTAGON, FLIGHT 93 was literally unbelievable. It gets me riled up because it is so clear now they deliberately didn’t get him.
I wish more talk about this who is on the front page then how quickly cities are falling, or the country fell. All avoidable if we did the right thing to start.
Now to be fair, 2 of the most infamous generals in history underestimated the cold.
Definitely true, but do we really think that we could have shifted Afghanistan into a blossoming free democracy?
I have my doubts that killing them would have done that on its own. But we should have just come to this realization when we decided not to pursue them.
One thing is for sure, 1-2 trillion dollars could have been much better spent in a way that DID succeed, but we chose to go at it the American military industrial complex way.
You could go back to the creation of the Taliban; the Mujahideen, through support of the CIA in the 1980s. We supplied, armed, and supported militant religious radicals to combat communism in Afghanistan. Supporting the Taliban was a bid to stop the Soviets.
Jump ahead to the early 2000s and those same forces we supported when it benefitted us had turned against the US in 9/11.
The South Park guys did Team America World Policr and that movie is extremely accurate for our approach to foreign policy since 9/11
The Mujahideen are not the taliban. The taliban are pashtun refugees who fled to Pakistan during/after soviet occupation where they were indoctrinated by Islamic fundamentalist clerics. The taliban returned to Afghanistan and kicked out the Mujahideen during the afghan Civil War. Stop spreading literal misinformation. This is no nuance bs circle jerk. A lot of countries all around the world were aiding the Afghanistan insurgents in the region btw.
Edit: if you want to learn some actual nuance and not reddit circle jerk [this video is interesting](https://youtu.be/zzBVvyBWDD4)
This. In the wake of 9-11, the howls for blood were insatiable. “Anti-war” was used as an epithet and was considered worse than “pedophile”. The vast overwhelming majority of Americans wanted this senseless and insane bloodshed. W just grabbed that tiger by he tail and held on for dear life. Remember that he had a 90% approval rating at the time of invasion and it stayed stubbornly high for the several years of the clusterfuckery that was going on, including a bonus extra invasion of a nearby country just for the lulz.
To be clear - the Bush II Administration was dumpster fire terrible. Like, arguably worse than Trump’s. But there’s blame enough to spread on a whole lot of people.
Barbara Lee of CA was the lone vote against the broad and vague AUMF.
Donald Rumsfeld went to the grave with the reputation he had , not the reputation he wanted!
Too many unknown unknowns
Dubya must wake up every day and thank his lucky stars that Trump took so much heat off of him.
Trump should never have been elected because of W. Republicans should have been relegated for decades to obscurity. Republicans are fucking morons
And that Obama chose not to investigate his war crimes
Yeah wonder why
You'd expect he would to a fellow club member?
Dubya wakes up every day to doing whatever the fuck he wants without a second thought. He used a national tragedy as cover to settle a score with a dictator he personally hated.
The man is shameless.
> The used a national tragedy as cover to settle a score with a dictator he personally hated.
I think you mean finish his daddy's war.
We (the US) armed the Taliban and trained them to fight the Russians. We supported Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran, providing arms and training to Iraq. We overthrew Iran's last democratically elected leader. For decades we've flooded the Middle East with weapons, even chemical and biological precursors.
Republicans might want to blame Biden for what's happening in Afghanistan right now, but our country has been directly contributing to this violence since before Biden was even born.
All started because the oligarchy in America was terrified of the ideas of sharing their wealth with the working class spreading to America.
The big D. Destabilization. I wish there was more awareness for the long game being played here. Maybe I’m crazy, but I think destabilizing all of Europe is the the long game. Flood Europe with refugees and destabilize until you can peck it apart. How it goes and it goes.
Don't forget arming Iran *at the same time* - fueling a deadly conflict by arming both sides.
Plus running guns to South American death squads and flooding American inner cities with crack as part of the same program.
It's so insane and awful it's impossible to discuss it factually/rationally without sounding like a conspiracy nut.
Ollie North took a plea deal that gave him immunity with the expectation that he'd tell the truth about those higher up, but instead he took all blame and openly mocked the Congressional inquiry from the witness stand.
Don't forget Rumsfeld and Cheney.
It’s incredible. Trump made me think back fondly on the W days. At the time I didn’t think we could have picked a dumber potus. Lol then came Trump.
We have Trump BECAUSE of the Bush presidency. It was during this time that the Republican party really embraced the hyper-nationalism, pro-authoritarian, and anti-intellectualism that guides their base today.
Everybody keeps talking about how bad things have gotten, and I feel like I'm the only one who remembers it was pretty much always this way.
I remember the Dixie Chicks.
They got fucking cancelled
My apologies but you're wrong, so is the person blaming Bush Sr. and anyone who may blame Reagan.
Newt Gingrich is the politician at fault. He changed the manner of politics in the U.S. to being a blood sport and he aimed to do it.
>June 24, 1978 “One of the great problems we have in the Republican Party is that we don’t encourage you to be nasty,” he told the group. “We encourage you to be neat, obedient, and loyal, and faithful, and all those Boy Scout words, which would be great around the campfire but are lousy in politics.” ~Newt Gingrich
He planned and fomented the change in the Republican Party that you are seeing now. He planned it in the 1970s and executed it in the 1980s. He created an action plan committee called the Conservative Opportunity Society. They helped weaponize wedge issues, they changed how Reagan ran for re-election, they intentionally aimed to kill bipartisanship.
If we're talking specifically about the Religious Fervor in the Republican Party than blame needs to be laid at the feet of Paul Weyrich and Jerry Falwell who basically shopped for Wedge issues to create splinter off the Evangelicals from mainstream politics and turn them hard Right. They settled on Abortion as the issue after trying many other things and it worked.
The final two people to blame are in the media and it is Rupert Murdoch and Rush Limbaugh. I don't even need to explain.
Newt Gingrich, Paul Weyrich, Jerry Falwell, Rush Limbaugh and Rupert Murdock as a group are singularly the cause of the Modern Right movement. Presidents followed them. Other foreign politicians lifted their tactics and moved them to Australia, Canada, Britain and further abroad.
They are the reason politicians can't sit and talk reasonably about Covid, Climate Change, Human Rights.
There were issues before in politics of course but they dialed everything up to eleven and now we have this shit show.
This is exactly right.
This also, you’re absolutely correct about this. Now I personally have never even listened to these guys before but my uncles on my dads side are huge fans of theirs. I’ve witnessed a lot of family arguments back in the day over political topics (speculation mostly) that Limbaugh would spew on his show back in the day that made for some interesting thanksgiving dinners.
We have W. due to his father's tenure.
Not just the name, but how incalculably stupid Dan Qualye was (and probably still is) and the GOP embraced "Stupid Is the New Black".
Draw that line from them to W to how fucking far Palin got, to Trump.
Only reason Trump isn't still President is how badly he and Pence handled the Covid outbreak.
No we got a Trump because the American voter wont read anything beyond Dr Suess and find education and science a threat to simple sound bites they can repeat from Faux Noise without thinking.
Lack of informed comprehension has always been a main stay of most populations for the U.S. it got a public foot hold without embarrassment during the Reagan years, science was suspect over Christianity, simple math was ignored as out national debt doubled and corporate greed started trickling down on the tax payers.
We are now in a slope of louder and dumber wins and it will only get worse until a massive natural disaster, foreign attack or a UFO Parks itself to get us to unite in a common cause once again. It took the Great Depression followed by WWII to make politicians work together again after the Civil War.
You think W was seriously that much better? He ramped up the anti-intelectualism (read: stupidity) and war-hawking both weaponized by Trump. History affects the present: if Gore had won, Trump would never have happened.
Covid is a national cause and it’s only divided the country further. If aliens attacked, half the country wouldn’t believe it.
I’d say you’re basically agreeing then.
Reagan made of all this mess possible but yeah, compared to Trump, Reagan and both of the Bushes seem somewhat reasonable, which is insane.
Yuck, I definately don't think of the W days with any sort of fondness. The weird hyper-nationalism, the blatant propaganda, and the whole collective psychosis of it all was really freaky to watch. Plus the whole conservative culture which came out of the Bush years led inextricably to Trump (or someone like him).
The Bush years were neither more or less shitty than the Trump years, just a different flavor of the same shitiness.
Truth. Trump just used Twitter.
Bush was dumb *for a world leader*. Still, he'd been a governor and was raised in politics his entire life. While he may not have been the very best of the best, he was still at least more qualified for the job than 99% of Americans. I don't think for a second that *I* would have been better at the job, though I suspect I could have killed fewer people.
Donald Trump was dumb for an American, and completely unqualified. As a guy in my 40's who eventually managed a completely undistinguished French BA and who has basically followed the news for the last 20 years, there is no doubt in my mind that I was more qualified to be President of the United States than 2016 Donald Trump. Not just that I'd have been better at it, but that I literally knew more about what the job entailed and how to do it than he did.
Bush looked a little silly because he maybe wasn't in the top tenth of one percent. I think it's generous to say Trump would even be in the top fifty percent. While I'm sure he's learned a thing or two from actually having been president for four years, as of 2016 I doubt he could have passed an 8th grade social studies class.
Dude, I’m a 28 year old drug-addled, alcoholic burnout that works at a bar and I am certain I could have done a better job than Trump.
Not that I would have been good at it by any means, there are definitely more qualified people just sitting next to me. But Jesus Christ.
The only way to do worse than Trump was to be competent. Trump was as bad as malignant stupid could be.
>drug-addled, alcoholic burnout
So still strictly an upgrade over Trump.
Just saying and acknowledge that there are more qualified persons than you, and most likely hire such persons to the cabinet, make you certainly a better candidate than trump.
> I don't think for a second that I would have been better at the job, though I suspect I could have killed fewer people.
To me, that meets the definition of doing a better job.
Bush wasn’t dumb, he was evil and conniving all while wearing his little smirk and being a “beer drinking bro”. Trump is just an incompetent racist asshole.
Bush is/was dumb. Cheney was the mastermind of that operation that, like most government endeavors, was intended to channel government money into the pockets of the politically connected, in this case defense contractors.
Comments like this drive me nuts. Bush did so much more damage to the USA and the world, but what really upsets people is Trump's terrible personality.
I remember protesting the Iraq War, which killed hundreds of thousands and displaced millions, while most of my Democrat friends were like "whatever." Then Trump comes along and they were like "OMG can you believe he tweeted that?!"
Bush and Trump were a one/two punch to American military and diplomatic power.
Bush threw away American blood and treasure for foolish military adventurism and war profiteering. He alienated allies, burned diplomatic bridges, and is responsible for the deaths of millions.
Trump worked tirelessly to undermine NATO and European diplomatic relations. He became a benefactor and spokesman for some of the worse authoritarians in the world. He also proved to any nation looking to restore normal diplomatic relations with the US that we are always just one election away from throwing those relations in the garbage.
American credibility is shot until we get our shit together.
>American credibility is shot ~~until we get our shit together~~.
Fixed that for ya!
Trump did plenty of damage. He literally blamed democrats every single chance he could, and use his office as a wedge to split the country. He turned bipartisan into "Us vs. The Evil Democrats", and it's literally driven families and friendships apart. This also hurt of political relationships, as he drove away allies whenever he couldn't have his own way, while he endeavored to appease non-allies and dictators that he longed to become.
We still don’t know the amount of damage trump did while in office. His pandering to Putin alone was horrific. We know he deleted the protocols established for dealing with a pandemic. I only hope we find out how deep his destruction went. The man called for an overthrow of our democracy! It doesn’t get much worse than a traitor in the White House. Bush/Cheney are war criminals, they have been stained with the blood of the Afghanistan and Iraq citizens. Cheney did it for money, Bush did it for glory.
I'm sorry, which Democrat friends of yours shrugged their shoulders at the war? Because every fucking liberal I know was adamantly against it.
Some of us were made Democrats (as opposed to Independent) by that war. Fuck Bush.
Only because Bush got a golden opportunity of public support from 9/11, while Trump never got such an opportunity during his 4 years in office. If Mexicans had flown planes into the Twin Towers in 2017, things would have played out very differently.
So yes, Bush did much more damage than Trump. But not because Trump was a better person.
>Trump never got such an opportunity during his 4 years in office
He absolutely did with COVID. trump is not an idiot and knows how to manipulate people, his real limitation is he sees the world as a zero sum game. If he'd given science and the democrats a small win only by playing along he would have cruzed to a 2nd term. But if they were not loosing he was not winning and here we are.
Pretty much, not sure why it continued for so long though.
War makes defense contractors rich
EH TONY, BRINGO DA PASTA
Well ... things seemed to be going okay for a little bit, but then Iraq took all of the US's attention. With Afghanistan kinda forgotten about, it was easy for Congress to keep funding the war. On top of that, withdrawing is seen as admitting defeat by some people and there's a good section of the population that refuses to do that. They'd keep us there 100 years if they thought we'd look bad for withdrawing.
Ahhh the Vietnam War strategy!
Because look at Republicans attacking Biden right now. Every president knew that the cost for ending the war would be bad optics so they passed the bill on. Trump timed it so it would be during the start of his second term but lost, so in a way he dodged a bullet.
BUT... this shit was long overdue and I'm glad it was done.
Didn't Trump start negotiating the withdrawal with the Taliban and excluded the Afgahn government?
Yes. And you know what that tells me? One was more trustworthy than the other. Think about THAT shit.
Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. The British Empire got locked up there, then the Soviets, then the US. I'm pretty sure it goes back to Alexandrian times. The terrain is very difficult, the weather is brutal, the people are feircly loyal to their clans, and they ha e experience fighting invading armies.
The US went in with no clear goals or strategy for what victory or withdrawal would look like, and expected to be able to drop in a western democracy that the people would just accept. It didn't work (repeatedly) and so we couldn't leave.
_China has just joined the chat_
Knowing China, they will approach the Pashtun/Taliban, and offer help suppressing any remaining democracy support. They will also offer infrastructure spending, in exchange for allowing travel of goods including oil pipelines and some other economic agreements.
I don't think anyone has ever gone into that area with an offer to back the winners.
China will make them absurdly rich buying there rare earth minerals.
To be fair - the initial invasion was massively popular. People wanted blood after 9/11, and this was an outlet for that anger. It’s Iraq that Bush and his crew concocted and pushed on the world. The country was massively split on the Iraq invasion, and the “weapons of mass destruction” swayed many. I’d focus on our culture of payback for Afghanistan, and leave the Iraq blame at the feet of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld.
Reagen would like a word with you.
Why is ever republican president shit?
"Why is every president shit?"
I fixed it for you
Ah, every republican president in the last 100 years. I think the fact that there used to be good ones is an even more depressing situation.
Eisenhower’s warning over the military industrial complex is incredible, if it wasn’t so disgustingly foretelling about our current situation. The last good republican president
Didn’t he overthrow Iranian government and a few dozen others which were democracies because of they were anti-imperialist
That's because those Republicans held the opposite political position they do today.
Eisenhower was the shit.
Domestically maybe, foreign policy wise....
Well let's just say someone had to set precedents for dubya to follow and following his old man's wisdom would have led him against running for office
They lower taxes and spend more, really great for rich people.
“Now watch this drive”
Still one of the most tone deaf clips I've ever seen.
We gave the Taliban money to fight the Soviets, sure we weren't the largest source of the money, but some of it was ours.
We hired Bin Laden and his Taliban to fight the Soviets for us! And they won…they handily drove the Soviets out of Afghanistan. We had just gotten out of Viet Nam & the US knew going to war in Afghanistan wasn’t going to be popular with voters!
The Taliban was formed long after the US stopped funding the resistance, out of the infighting that filled the vacuum after the Soviets left.
What? lol The CIA was funneling $630 million per year in 1987 to the mujahideen.
Oh, you mean when Bush Sr, was at the CIA arming them against the soviets?
They straight up called us anti Americans who support the terrorists when we questioned all this. Fun times
I think it was Bushes fault. Not for going in but losing. He did not go in hard enough and eliminate the taliban immediately. Then he made the mistake of going into Iraq before the taliban were entirely defeated. In war you can't have half measures. The enemy is defeated entirely or they will regroup and come back.
Clearly bush never read “THE ART OF WAR”
Bush never finished the Three Little Pigs!
He almost did but this thing called 9/11 disrupted the class.
I can’t remember which book he was reading when he was told.
My Pet Goat.
He read that book and gave him the idea of finding a scapegoat.
This is clever
> He did not go in hard enough and eliminate the taliban immediately.
Do you think they should just have killed all military aged men. And keep killing boys as they grow older?
Nobody has been able to conquer and hold Afghanistan, no matter what the groups are called.
The options were to just bomb people and go home or turn it into an American colony.
I don't think it was possible to eliminate the taliban without invading Pakistan. It's Bush's legacy but I think US objectives were too broad in general. The Democrats and the public supported these objectives in the beginning.
Amen. The rush to move on to Iraq is what prevented Afghanistan from getting done properly.
Problem was, the excuse we were given that it was the Taliban and Bin Laden that attacked us on 9/11. All the while, they knew it was some Saudis that did it and Bin Laden ended up being found in Pakistan. He may have been in Afghanistan for a while but it didn't mean we had to invade the whole country to go after him.
Isn't a big reason why the Taliban became so intertwined with fundamentalist Islam is because a major component of their financial/political support at least initially came from wealthy Wahabbi Muslims based out of Saudi Arabia like Bin Laden who fought with the Afghans tribal warlords against the Soviets?
I believe I've read in the past how wealthy donors really helped build groups like the Taliban and export an extremist ideology to places like Afghanistan. However, the United States and other western countries have done very little to tackle these sources back home in the Gulf since it would easily lead right back to our allies and key players like the Saudi royal family that are seen as untouchable (regardless of their potential links to 9/11 or other acts of terrorism) because of their major economic interests behind the scenes.
Well, I do remember the Taliban leaders explicitly refusing to turn over Bin Laden, saying there’s no proof he was behind 9/11. They didn’t say he wasn’t in Afghanistan or that they can’t find him, as far as I remember.
He also had an opportunity to make peace with the Taliban and threw it away.
[This one too.](https://i.imgur.com/wwWXnOE.jpg)
[But mostly this one. ](https://i.imgur.com/UYPBi7T.jpg)
**[William Joseph Casey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Casey)**
> William Joseph Casey (March 13, 1913 – May 6, 1987) was the Director of Central Intelligence from 1981 to 1987. In this capacity he oversaw the entire United States Intelligence Community and personally directed the Central Intelligence Agency
>One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."
Everyone forgets about Reagan now a days
Raygun bankrolled the Taliban
Still trying to take all the credits. His dad did quite a lot too...
Nah, put some blame onto that bitch regan too
dick Cheney should get the most credit
It’s a very unpopular opinion, but the US never should’ve killed Saddam. They even backed him while he gassed Iran.
Hey, give Newt Gingrich some credit.
Oh man, are we giving Reagan a pass now?
Bush, Obama, Trump, and Bidens fault
I have no love for the W.Bush administration but the problems in Afghanistan started long before they got involved.
As with most things this probably has its roots with Reagan, and comes from a British/french seed in how they colonized the region...
Its definitely his fault, but most importantly its not only his fault.
And Iraq was even more of a waste.
Dumb fucking piece of shit. Also, send the bill to Dick Cheney because this ridiculous mother fucker didn’t even know what Al Qaeda was when we started that ‘war’.
Backed by every single US senator at the time save 1. Including Biden and Sanders.
Biden went as far as to ask how he could help the republican's at the time gain more support for the cause.
So while yeah, fuck this guy. Also don't forget who his accomplices were. It's all a big club and you arent in it.
Why are they leaving all those blackhawk helicopters and arms in Afghanistan for the Taliban to recover?
Because if you bring the weapons home, you don't need to build new ones the next time you start a war.
Whether you last name is Bush, Cheney, or Biden. The 0's at the end of your bank balance come from starting this war.
>Backed by every single US senator at the time save 1. Including Biden and Sanders.
Yeah, Reddit is doing some serious rewriting of history. The invasion was unanimously supported after 9/11. The Bush admin can be faulted for Iraq, but everyone was on board with Afighanistan, including US allies.
[I'm sorry are you referring to the 20 year long war that ended the exact same as if we only stationed troops there for 20 weeks?](https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-middle-east-afghanistan-8d6d6d9e1e7cddbd49caf0b52a40c2e8)
[Or are you referring to the gutting of the public education system that has lead to an increase in people thinking they are smarter than trained medical professionals and know more about a virus than they do?](https://www.chalkbeat.org/2017/8/4/21102738/no-child-left-behind-is-dead-but-have-states-learned-from-it)
[Or are you referring to the economic crisis in the form of the most rampant wealth disparity this country has seen since King George owned it?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Economic_Stabilization_Act_of_2008#:~:text=The%20Emergency%20Economic%20Stabilization%20Act,Bush.)
[Or are we referring to the militarization of the police that started under his administration in the wake of 9/11?](https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/09/12/police-militarization-in-the-decade-following-911/?sh=4367368d5d7e)
The GOP don’t care. If shit happens during a Democratic administration because of things THEY started it erases what they started.
How about we just admit our government needs to stay the fuck out of other countries that want a theocracy. If they didn’t want it - they would have done something, some push back. Nothing.
Democrats and Republicans need to see that. But we have so much shit to deal with here as is.
This would have happened under trump, easily. Under Obama, easily.
I’m for helping people but it’s sad to say that there are people in Afghanistan who don’t want to fight as one against the Taliban.
But I was told by Reddit that Biden caused all of this lol
That wasn't reddit, that was facebook
Please, I've seen plenty of top comments wanting us back and killing everyone left. Reddit has been a shitshow today.
In my lifetime alone, we started messing in Afghanistan under Carter. As someone else has said, this is big enough of a shit sandwich that we can all take a bite
Especially all of our members in the house except for one voted to authorize this.
The whole congress authorized force in Afghanistan after Sept.11th attack. There wasn't even a debate. George W should be remembered for his push to invade Baghdad.
I thought this would be true forever. Then Trump showed up and made this guy look like fucking Jesus Christ and Einstein all in one.
As much as I can't stand Bush, and this did start there, it really isn't his fault, except in the abstract. Was the US justified in going into Afghanistan after 9/11? Hell yes. But what followed? A cluster F from 3 administration's over 20 years. Again, as much of a total F the last person in office (I refuse to name that POS as President or use its name), in this, he was right. And Biden has done the right thing. Get out. We have spent trillions on building a government and army in Afghanistan. The government is corrupt. Always has been. War lords hiding as politicians. Skimming off the top. Monies intended as pay and support for the army were stolen. When the army was pushed to defend the country, they had no pay. They had no food!!! Why expect them to defend the corrupt government?
This, sadly, was going to happen this way. Why spend another minute in Afghanistan? Why spend another taxpayer dollar on this?
Would a better outcome be desirable? Oh hell, yes. But, in a real world, possible? Sorry, but no.
Crazy how fast our brains are able to adjust to entirely new realities and paradigms isn't it?
20 years ago nobody had a smartphone, now we can't live without. 20 years ago this man was the most obviously wrong asshole you ever laughed at while now he seems docile and quaint compared to what some republicans are saying.