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Unlucky & Unwilling in Love: A discussion of Kaz, Hugo, race, and how their situations are being handled by production. (Includes speculation re: incoming bombshells)

Unlucky & Unwilling in Love: A discussion of Kaz, Hugo, race, and how their situations are being handled by production. (Includes speculation re: incoming bombshells)

  • By - nx85

scoobydoov

This is why I don’t get why people say Kaz is coasting in the villa. She literally can’t graft when none of the boys are attracted to her unless she wants to look like a fool again by trying to force it.


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Informal-Mine

Absolute bullshit, you don't get into love island if you're not somewhat attractive. No offense to these ladies but I would argue that people like Faye and Chloe are not crazily attractive either but yet they're still doing okay for themselves...because they're white while WOC like Sharon and Kaz are having a hard time in there. And it's not all about looks or at least facial attractiveness, Kaz has the best body in there- she has been voted most sexy in most challenges- but she's being looked over based on her race imo.


jhshvc

Exactly this. Dark skinned black women are held to incredibly high standards.


OnePumper

Bro Kaz is leng easily top 2 for me for a start but why'd you feel the need to say she isnt an attractive BLACK woman? It seems like you think she should be judged differently because shes black? I hope you're not one of those 'you're good looking for a ____' type people. More time it's the other islanders not being attracted to dark skin girls rather than her looks.


JPJsIntelligence

Lol you mean to tell me that you think Chloe is more attractive than Kaz? What is your thought process behind this....?


bonercoleslaw

I completely disagree. In a year which has been an all time low for the attractiveness of the islanders, she’s one of the few bright spots. The only people better looking than her are probably Millie & Lucinda. Stop pretending colourism isn’t a factor here. Dark skinned girls always get done dirty by Love Island (and in society). Yewande was probably the best looking islander they’ve ever had and she still got absolutely snaked by the producers.


peaksand

Your tiny sample size isn't indicative of much. Kaz, as a girl, isn't really on the level of other islanders (physically). Are you really going to refute that?


bonercoleslaw

She’s the joint second best looking islander, what are you talking about? Edit: also looking through your comment history, you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder about her. Have you considered that might be your own colourism showing?


peaksand

You realise preferences are a thing? I, and apparently many other men, would put her on the bottom 50%. Lovely girl but isn't physically a bombshell by any means.


bonercoleslaw

Yeah we get it, you like mediocre white girls 🤷‍♂️


peaksand

Such as? I'd rate Kaz above Sharon, Faye, Chloe, AJ... maybe a couple others. Just because I don't worship Kaz because she is black you think I'm racist or some shit lmao. Delusional shit... but go off..🙄


bonercoleslaw

Nah that’s not what I’m saying. There’s a difference between colourism and racism; you can subconsciously behave in a way informed by the former without necessarily being the latter. I know it’s subjective but she’s definitely better looking than Liberty as well as all the ones you mentioned and she’s much more attractive than both of the new bombshells, Shannon and probably Rachel (though I’m not sure if I’m seeing her as less attractive than initially because I didn’t like her vibe). That makes her the 3rd most attractive on the show so far (I’d say joint second because I don’t rate Lucinda as highly as everyone else) which, though less of an achievement than usual because of the generally less hot cast, means she should realistically be having a better time of things. I just don’t understand how you can’t see that decades of reinforced European beauty standards has an impact on the “personal preferences” of the guys on the show and why we should be seeking to address that. Also Tobi & Chloe are my favourite couple so I’m not particularly salty he ditched her, just think the producers are taking the piss out of another dark skinned black woman.


peaksand

>I know it’s subjective but she’s definitely better looking than Liberty as well as all the ones you mentioned Then surely you know how you just completely contradicted your entire point. Acting like Kaz would be considered more attractive than every other girl by 100% of the men on the planet, as if it were irrefutable fact. Absolute joke, can't take anything else you said seriously after that. Oh and cry more about beauty standard and maybe realise that Europe is 90%+ white so it clearly makes sense that beauty standards there favour white people. It would be *absolutely absurd* if that wasn't the fact. Imagine going to Ghana and complaining that white beauty standards wasn't the norm. Get a grip.


riddledwithanxiety33

That's the point though. No one likes black women on the show. Whether you think she's attractive or not is not part of the conversation. We just want one guy, one, to actually like her. Every year it's the same thing.


kasscarkasscar

I can't wrap my head around this comment. To start, attractiveness is subjective. If you personally think Kaz isn't attractive, I'm not going to argue with you. However, the assertion that she isn't attractive or is the least attractive across the board, is completely asinine. I think Kaz is banging and I'd rank her towards the top of the current group of islanders. I am kind of interested in some examples of darker skinned black women you find attractive though.


brichb

I don’t find kaz attractive but the most attractive person on American love island currently is a black woman and she’s done well. I think kaz just isn’t a Lucinda level “worldy” as that asshole put it, and if she were more of the guys would pursue her regardless of their typical type.


kasscarkasscar

It's funny you mention Lucinda, because to me she isn't that attractive. I think she's a pretty girl but she looks sooo young to me. And that's kind of my point. The assertion that Kaz "isn't an attractive black woman" and men aren't going to gravitate towards her is stupid because it's going to differ from person to person. The producers should try to cast people with more diverse preferences.


throwawaybcimapussy1

she is though, and this happens to every dark skinned black woman so clearly it’s a bigger issue. Leanne and Yewande are both ridiculously gorgeous and had issues in there, and don’t lie and say they’re below average


lostinshalott

Wtf is this comment just because you don’t find kaz attractive doesn’t mean she isn’t? Clearly she’s good looking she’s probably not had a problem outside the villa the issue is production haven’t cast men who are interested in women of colour. This is the second comment I’ve seen saying kaz isn’t an “attractive black woman” it’s disgusting tbh.


msen33

The thing is though, so often “attractive black women” are deemed “attractive” because they have more Western/Eurocentric facial features, which Kaz doesn’t have. If she was white it would still happen? No way. Kaz is no less naturally attractive - and by that I mean fresh faced no makeup, not surgery or fillers - than any of the other girls bar maybe Lucinda and IMO she’s actually more so than many of them. Plus she’s got that ridiculous body. I’m really not here to tear down the looks of the other girls, but they’re all pretty ordinary looking (like most people are) when they’re not super dolled up. So yeah, the boys aren’t into her because she’s not attractive to them and what they judge as attractive is still based on Western beauty standards.


peaksand

So you're really complaining that a northern European TV show, which likely follows northern European beauty standards has an affinity to those facial features? I'm sure Kaz would kill it in some sort of African Love Island, whereas a Faye or Liberty would be overlooked. Would you consider that problematic, or something needing to be artificially fixed?


msen33

I think that people all over the world value Western beauty standards more than those of their individual countries. It’s been the gold standard for ages. Whitening creams are popular everywhere, people get surgery to make their features more Eurocentric. While Kaz definitely would do better, Faye and Liberty would likely be hot commodities for that reason. Look, I’m not asking Love Island to rectify any of the world’s ills, it’s a dumb reality show. Personally I’m in the camp that they shouldn’t have thrown Kaz in there to get her confidence knocked again and again if they couldn’t actually find a man who would be crazy attracted to her. They might not be in the majority, but they do exist.


peaksand

Appreciate the honesty. But bruh, come on, Kaz can still do well and there is definitely a big chance of her finding someone in the show. And if not (maybe for the greater good), there's a whole other world full of men who appreciate her and see her for who she really is and wouldn't even second guess to date her and would treat her better than most of the attention seeking men we have remaining on the show.


msen33

You’re so right on the second point, and I really hope we see the first point come to pass. I just think many people, myself included, are tired of these boys coming in and feeding Kaz the “energy” line before choosing a white blonde girl. It’s happening on the US version right now too, minus the white blonde girl part. But the dark skinned black girl, who like Kaz doesn’t have traditionally Western features (and is still absolutely stunning) AND has an amazing personality, has had three guys now come in and tell her what a great vibe she has before pivoting to someone else. It just gets to be a little 🙄 after a while, you know?


straplesspantsuit

Yeah that's bullshit. Kaz is extremely conventionally attractive.


peaksand

*To you*. Imagine thinking every other person has the same opinion as you lol


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peaksand

"Every girl I like is hot and everyone who disagrees is wrong" Imagine being so narcissitic.


hollow_ling12

This girl coming in for Hugo is his type on paper , she’s natural and not “fake” blonde hair, blue eyes and leggy. But that brings me to wonder if he’ll end up being attracted to her because he says his type is someone like this new bombshell but it can be skewed if that makes sense like if his idea of natural isn’t natural at all like for all I know he thinks being natural is someone like Kylie Jenner and this new girl he may not like despite being his “type on paper” because his ideal girl isn’t actually his ideal girl ? Idk if I worded it right honestly


nx85

Nah I get what you're saying. This has come up a bit and it's controversial with his fans, but it's a totally valid point to make. The fact that he thinks Lucinda was made by the gods and that whole speech shows he can be extremely attracted to women who have some work done and don't fit that "natural" look. So there's no guarantee he will like Georgia but he certainly didn't like Sharon or AJ, so the producers are specifically putting her in because they know his type on paper and they really want something to stick. I just think it's ridiculous that he gets this sort of treatment when he doesn't even deserve to be there anymore, versus how they're doing Kaz and almost all other black female islanders before her. It's so blatantly obvious and unfair.


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ellie-zia

I think people forget that Hugo friend zoned Sharon, not the other way around. After the first recoupling, he never tried at all with her. She even complained that he wasn't putting in any effort to get to know her and that's when he told the boys that she wasn't the type of girl he would bring home. Sharon didn't immediately write him off but Aaron was the only one who actually tried to get to know her and she went with that. Granted it didn't work out but she had never friend zoned Hugo. I think it's also quite obvious why she was so hurt when he said he didn't like fake, she took it personally.


Informal-Mine

But how did it not work out with AJ? She likes him and he liked her but he said there just was something not right. To this day we still don't know what that thing is- although maybe it's her not being fully white. Aj looked genuinely gutted. He had no reasoning to break it off with her. Both Lucinda and Millie chose him for dates and apart from the dates themselves, he didn't put any type of graft in for either. He's made absolutely no effort and is just treating this like a nice little holiday. At this point, he needs to leave.


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Informal-Mine

I definitely feel like Aj deserves a reason and this a freaking reality tv show, why is he on a show about love and then can’t even give a valid reason why shit didn’t work out. And this whole “no chemistry” thing would have been valid but he didn’t even say that. He said there’s just something not there, blah, blah, blah. The fact that he’d rather save a friend and was upset to get picked speaks volumes to me. When this new girl comes in we’ll see how he treats her but he might make a make a mug of her too at this point.🤷🏾‍♀️


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Informal-Mine

Well I would argue that Hugo is rather boring and hasn’t done anything of significance in this show, I think it’s rather unfair to keep stating Aj is boring. We haven’t even really got to see her personality come out and the fact that your defending Hugo to the point where “she’s boring” is a valid point to you is crazy to me.


BrowniieBear

I don’t see what the hype around Hugo is tbh? Other than him being a nice guy. He’s not particularly lighting the villa up with entertainment and I just think he’s taking up someone else’s space. People wanted him to get a chance as they felt sorry for him and he’s had it with a few women now. Seems like he’s mega picky, what’s he gonna do if he gets with a blonde and she decides to dye her hair one day, break up with her?


macabruhh

He’s cute but definitely no Nas, who despite not being lucky in love was entertaining to watch and easy to root for. Demi wasn’t his type but they still had a cute romance, too bad producers barely showed the genuine connection he had with Eva and it ended up with the audience turning against them as a couple.


_crackheadd

he's not even a "nice" guy!!! i don't know where people are getting this from - just because he speaks well? trust me i've met so many guys like him and he does or says little things which reveal his true personality. he ain't a nice guy...


qweerty93

It's cruel to cast black women and then not cast men who date black women. They did this successfully once before with Mike but he seemed to be the only guy in that whole season who was actively interested in black women.


throwawayeventually_

Honestly I’ve said before and I’ll say again even having Curtis interested in Jourdan brought some of the most memorable drama from S5. Having men with more than one type will help to add entertainment value. While having the guys fight for Lucinda is its own drama, it is also boring af to know exactly who a guy is going to go for before he enters the villa based on his Instagram following, then being proven right. They have a diverse group of men who all seem to not have much trouble attracting girls (including Hugo) but their tastes are all incredibly narrow (except maybe Aaron but even then - the guy with the most diverse taste doesn’t fancy black women). On the flip side the group of girls leans sooooo far now into the one type the guys like but they have diverse enough tastes to appreciate all the men there? So why can’t they find guys who can actually appreciate Lucinda *and* Kaz without pretending about the latter? It’s annoying because I’m sure if they actually bothered they could do it. It’s certainly not impossible. The message they’re sending by making it *look* hard to find someone that likes Kaz is definitely not nice.


nx85

It's a sad state of affairs when freaking *Curtis* sets a better example. I can't even wrap my head around how bad that is for Love Island lol.


woeful_bby29

I just rewatched episode 1 of season 5 and Curtis saying “it’s not really about looks” and literally meaning that. How nice and refreshing!


nx85

To me he's still full of it as I think he used Amy from the start, but Curtis is a whole other issue seperate from this hah


woeful_bby29

Lol that’s valid!


JPJsIntelligence

And when he first came into the villa he expressed interest in both Yewande (and Amy). Not Curtis setting a better example than some of the Black men, and everyone else on Love Island


Afri-Dan

People like who they like, they don’t follow examples.


macabruhh

Honestly, the Curtis Jordanne debacle was so refreshing to see (besides Amy being hurt, didn’t like seeing that obviously). That was an actual example of someone having no racial preference or type. I keep finding myself missing him while watching this season lmaoo he cracked me up


jeyheyy

Curtis was genuinely a GOAT-tier islander for me. So much drama, so many memes.


sailoorscout1986

Thanks young ladeh


Captains_Parrot

This is exactly my issue with LI and I think quite a few people are having problems understanding it, or pushing too far in a certain direction. It's perfectly fine, imo to have a majority of the cast be white in a UK based show. The problem is when you put a POC in there, especially women, and they don't get chosen you're sending out the message that they aren't as desirable, aren't as wanted as the white people. The sad part is it probably reflects 'real life', but that's not what LI should be trying to show, they should be aiming for equality. They don't need to put more minorities in there. They need to find men who will make a move on minorities. If only 1 POC was in this year but they were picked fairly early on it would send a much better message than what happens every year imo. It's interesting that black men consistently have it smooth sailing compared to black women.


Fifanegro

I'm sorry but you forget that jourdan is arguably the best looking black woman to ever come on love island. Kaz and samira are tied second the rest just couldn't compete. Yewande had no sauce coming into the villa 2 years later I think with the way she handles herself makeup wise now she could stand a chance. I just think love island don't cast black girls that are at the top of their ladder. Look at girls like Maya jams lupita from black panther those women are beautiful. Imo kaz is still top 5 girls in the villa she's better looking than Faye and AJ and she ties with Millie. I can agree in real life black girls are disenfranchised in the dating scene especially if your dark skinned but jourdan was dark skinned but she was beautiful enough to turn heads.


throwawaybcimapussy1

am i the only one who doesn’t think jourdan was that pretty? leanne and yewande were a lot better looking imo


worldsLargestBeaver

Just happy to see Leanne love tbh She was so stunning, like literally looked like a super model to me. Also had great style, won't forget that silk dress/earrings combo anytime soon. Educated and good chat, too. Like wtf 😭


Informal-Mine

I was going to argue with you especially about Yewande having no sauce but you're just giving the hard truth..... well, mostly. I do have to say that Jourdan does have certain features that are eurocentric so I feel like saying she's the most attractive black girl- according to what? Her skinny nose and small plump lips, compared to Kaz's wider nose or Yewande's bigger lips- is kind of holding white beauty standards as the only beauty standards. What makes Jourdan the most attractive, really? The rest I agree with but is a hard pill to swallow.


Fifanegro

Yewande has always been beautiful but beauty with no sauce don't do anything for you kaz has similar features but I find her attractive due to the way she carries herself Samira is also a natural beauty as well. Yewande lacked that but now that she has it she became instantly more attractive


B_Cutler

Incredible that you reel off a list of the best looking black girls on LI without including Rachel from the current season. She’s #1 for me followed by Samira and Yewande


Fifanegro

Sorry i forgot Rachel as well really beautiful but the big forehead is a bit much but yeah I would tie her with kaz and Samira


Dusawzay

Coming from a guy perspective who does and has dated black women . Kaz is not all that looks wise , because she’s black obviously people want to champion her. Kaz would get more attention if she was prettier- it’s not simply due to her being black ,and her wearing that bonnet , glasses combo every morning doesn’t help either , she looks like a grandmother .


sofiaduany7

She’s wearing a bonnet to protect her hair... she wearing glasses bc she probably blind af without contacts... it’s the bloody morning? What exactly would you rather her wake up like? You act like she stays looking like that the whole day... Yall ridiculous


woeful_bby29

I get what you’re saying. But the way people act is as though she’s horrifyingly ugly. It’s just the standard is dark skinned black women have to be strikingly beautiful for attention and general praise, while lighter skinned/white women have room to be more average-looking and still be sexualized and deemed a worthy romantic partner.


Dusawzay

Yes I agree , I just didn’t say it in a very PC way (hence the down votes). She’s definitely not ugly but she’s no bombshell . Neither are other women this year , but unconscious colourism may play an effect as to why they still get attention from guys .


Longers1

I think your right about preferences but the problem isn’t completely that Kaz is black it’s that’s she’s not really good looking. Liberty is a blonde white woman but I guarantee you if she didn’t have Jake none of the other islanders would want to couple up with her either.


nx85

Yeah, and after the show I think Mike said he and Priscilla felt so much pressure about "black love" that it took them some time to finally announce their breakup. They shouldn't have to hold that much on their shoulders but when you're the only out of like hundreds of people on the show, people put a lot of their hopes in you. Doesn't have to be that way at all!


qweerty93

Yeah I can imagine that would have been really tough. Just shows there's not a lot of black love/joy in the media. People pin all their hopes on such a small number of people.


redqks

You should see the hate Aaron is getting for not being with Kaz


hullabaloo4691

Ehh that’s a reach. The most popular girl getting pulled was Sophie before she was voted off


qweerty93

You're right in the sense that there's a BIG difference in the way mixed women and dark-skinned black women are treated.


Aloebae

This is was well said, I’m tired of the surface level Hugo and Kaz comparisons. Toby wasn’t 100% Kaz’s type (she said she likes gym guys), but she tried so hard to make it work people called her a fool. Whereas Hugo said Sharon wasn’t the type of woman he’d bring home to his mum and he was avoiding her in the early days (I’m happy they became close mates though). I do think he tried with AJ and I’m glad he at least nipped it in the bud before she got her feelings hurt. When he asked her “why me? I thought you were picking Liam” I knew it wouldn’t last.


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Aloebae

Lmaoo he did before the recoupling! He was definitely flirting with her, but somewhere along the line (maybe because she was grafting Liam so heavily?) he got turned off imo


Informal-Mine

Exactly!! When exactly did he try?


outhere88

I appreciate this post. I agree with everything you said and I also feel that Jake plays a factor when it comes to these guys and their “preferences.” There have been multiple instances where some of the guys (like Brad, Danny and Toby) have expressed a potential attraction to either Kaz or Rachel and Jake has denied their attraction or questioned whether that attraction was real. It is not uncommon for men to date women or go after women that they think they should go after based on the opinion of other men. I feel as if this is happening in the villa because the guys are really immature and want to be with girls that make them look “good” (good = conforming to narrow and messed up societal standards). I feel so bad for Kaz and I’m so sick of these producers


Malenend

I am still pissed off that racist Danny is still in the house


aimhighsquatlow

He’ll be gone in the next episode. I genuinely think that was set up to get him voted out instead of just removing him


caca_milis_

I have a feeling if they do it that the girls vote out one of the boys, and the boys vote out one of the girls. I suspect they might decide since Chloe & Toby are strong together and in theory have found what they wanted, they'll send them home. There again, if they're playing the game and understand it's a popularity contest, they may decide to keep Chloe & Toby so the Islanders who stay have a better chance. Danny only just arrived, no way the Islanders will choose to send him packing when he hasn't had a real chance in the villa.


straplesspantsuit

They will send Danny home FOR SURE


aimhighsquatlow

Ya agreed, he doesn’t appear to have any close bonds with anyone at all!!


sharlye

I think is this one of the worst things that production/ITV/ etc. has done this series.. By not removing Danny, it sent a really gross message about racism. And I read Danny's apology and his behavior, even though he has not been in long, has shown opposite. For ex, we did not see a kind or joking side. And there was a clear difference in energy when he grafted Lucinda (who was also grafting Aaron) versus when he grafted AJ (who was also grafting Hugo at the same time). He seemed irrationally mad at both Lucinda and Aaron. I wonder what was up at that.


supadupa66

They kept Anton in and people seemed to get over that very quickly and idk about you but fucking blackface is almost worse is it not?


sharlye

That is also valid. I somehow I missed that during that series. Seems as though they dont care.


Fabulous_Title

Do the other islanders know that he made racist commnets and had to apologise? I know they dont normally have contact with the outside world..


Wild-Monitor6118

They don't


sharlye

I hardly doubt that they did!


duma31

How can you people label other people as racist without knowing even 1% of them. He said a racist word (obviously it's wrong and he shouldn't have) not in a malicious context, this doesn't make him racist.


bonercoleslaw

Yeah it does given that he said it only 2 years ago and the information on who can and can’t say that word has been freely available and in the public consciousness for decades. He can’t seriously claim to have not known the power of the word, he has a tattoo of a racist symbol (union jack) and all the black people in the villa clearly can’t stand him for good reason. Oh also if you’re not actively trying to dismantle systemic racism then you’re a racist. Hope this clears things up 👍


duma31

Your last paragraph is insane to me, wow. How old are you? This is not a dig, I'm genuinely curious. What does "actively trying to dismantle systemic racism" mean? What are the things that entail that? Depending on your answer to the last 2 questions, my analogy may or may not make sense. It's like saying if you're not actively trying to stop/erradicate pedophilia you're a pedophile. How many years ago doesn't matter in the context, no one brought it up. He said it in an endearing context. Replace the N word with "friend", that's what he meant. Again, what he said was wrong. But context is everything. Especially when labelling someone as a racist. Some people hear the word used in songs and movies and think it's okay to say it, it's obviously not. I don't think he's the brightest tool in the shed.


bonercoleslaw

I’m 29. I feel like the reason it’s insane to you is because you don’t understand how systematic racism functions and how passivity and inaction is equivalently responsible for upholding it as active racism considering racial bias permeates the structures of our entire society and social institutions including things like the media and beauty standards. Effectively if you’re not actively challenging racism on both an individual and socio-cultural level then you’re tacitly consenting to it and are therefore a part of the problem (ergo a racist). What Danny said was racist, no matter how positively you try to spin it and a non-racist would know not to say something like that regardless of the intended positive connotations. Something doesn’t have to be malevolent in intent or directed as an insult to be racist; there are myriad non-violent and purportedly “friendly” ways to be racist (micro aggressions) but none more obvious and easy to avoid than saying the n-word. It’s relevant when it was posted because of the fact it was at a time when he (a 23 year old adult in 2019) should have known better and therefore indicates it was posted because he didn’t care it might be construed as racist not because he didn’t or couldn’t know. Him being stupid (so far your only correct read of the situation) has little to do with it, we don’t lower our standards in other areas just because the perpetrator happens to be a little bit thick so why here? Edit: this doesn’t automatically make me right but I have a masters degree with a specialism in exactly this subject (media, racism & far-right) so that’s why I feel I can speak with authority on this subject.


duma31

Firstly, I appreciate you for having a discussion! Secondly, I don't know how to reply to specific parts of a comment (I'm new to this) so I apologise if it may seem muddled. You still haven't said what "actively challenging racism" means and what actions come under the term. Does it mean tweeting something where you condemn actions of others? Does it mean you go to blm marches? How can you expect people to agree with you or change people's mind when your whole point was "if you're not actively trying to dismantle systemic racism then you're racist" and you haven't explained what constitutes "actively challenging racism", "actively trying to dismantle systemic racism." What Danny said was racist, I never said it wasn't. However, calling someone racist has huge implications, we shouldn't go around saying that term for the smallest of things. He said a racist word. Same way Edinson Cavani did (in his language and culture there was a term that everyone uses as a form of endearment, nothing else, and when translated to English it has a different meaning and is considered racist), this doesn't mean Cavani is a racist. Even Patrice Evra, who had a whole episode with Suarez said that he said something racist (that was not in an endearing way at all) and he believes that that doesn't mean Suarez is racist. There are scenarios like this where the context matters, in fact context should matter in any situation, yet you are making generalizations and blanket statements. PLEASE tell me what "actively trying to dismantle systemic racism" and "actively challenging racism means" and what are the things that qualify as doing that. I want to say more but I need to know what they mean.


bonercoleslaw

To my mind, “actively challenging” means calling racism out when you encounter it in the wild regardless of context or the social capital potentially gained from not calling it out (eg. not letting someone above you in the hierarchy at work get away with a micro aggression or sketchy comment) and “actively trying to dismantle” means making attempts to change social and institutional factors that uphold racism (eg. abolitionism, campaigning & raising awareness of issues like racism in education or racial bias in healthcare provision, holding private & social entities to account, challenging the racist party currently in government in U.K.) in whatever ways you can relative to your means, privilege, platform, social capital etc. Obviously some people are more able to contribute to this than others but every little helps. I always means test my judgements & expectations of people on a sliding scale anyway and I’d encourage others to do the same. The Cavani thing is different; what he said is not considered racist by the black community in Spanish speaking Latin America so it’s a translation issue. That’s not the case here so it’s not a relevant example. If someone says that word in a time when we should all know better, I don’t think it really matters whether their life gets ruined especially in this context where Danny has proven himself to be absolutely awful in just about every other capacity since being on the show and also this is the U.K. where the PM is a virulent racist himself so, somewhat disappointingly, I sincerely doubt this incident will have a lasting impact on the lad’s plumbing business or shit clothing line. Anything else you want cleared up about what I’m trying to get across?


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bonercoleslaw

Have you ever heard of taking a holistic approach to something?


Autofilusername

Yes girl!


Longers1

This comment is what’s really wrong with this season. It’s a dating show not social studies class.


angry_echidna

Thank you for this comment, it was really interesting and you clearly know what you’re talking about. I have a question if you’re up for answering. I’m a white man and have been called out for “speaking on behalf of people of colour” when calling out racism (including calling Danny racist for using the N word). Do you have any advice for this? I see comments like yours which say we all have to call it out where we see it, but then sometimes when I do I get accused of speaking on behalf of another race and told to stay in my lane.


bonercoleslaw

This is always going to be an issue because unfortunately some POC don’t really give a shit about racism in wider society because it’s not congruous with their lived experience or they have internalised a lot of it and many others think it’s not a white person’s place to speak on behalf of them. My recommendation would be never speak “on their behalf” and foreground POC voices at every available opportunity. If it’s just you and a bunch of other white people, call it out when you see it because it shouldn’t be let slide but ultimately should be using your privilege as a white person to open up space for POC to express themselves and echo their sentiments. So basically avoid centring yourself in the discussion, speak with POC before calling out racism in situations where they have something to lose (eg at work) and try to foster an environment where the POC in, for example, your workplace or any organisation you’re part of can take the lead on anti-racism without feeling like they are not being supported. Feel free to DM me if you’d like to discuss this a bit more.


angry_echidna

Thanks for the detailed response! Does feel like a minefield sometimes so it’s good to hear your opinion on it.


Informal-Mine

I think unless the racism was directed at you or you're race- it's not your place to say


rhombusaurus36

I disagree. The unfortunate reality is that POC voices will often get discounted as “playing the victim,” etc (I’ve seen it in this subreddit too), and someone who says a racist thing may only listen to someone of their race who doesn’t have their skin in the game (pun unintended). Of course, the racist may just call that person a white knight, but it’s worth calling them out. Saying this as a POC. We are not a monolith so there are divergent opinions, but that is what I’d prefer. Tbh “staying in your lane” can just mean letting racists be racists without repercussions.


ladycandle

I think it's unfair to cancel Danny right away and label him as a racist as we all know nothing about his life. Yes he was ignorant and should know only black people can use the N word as terms of endearment. His comment on Instagram was a response saying "thanks my N***". It was wrong.. and he should own up to it. But was the intention really malicious? He's clearly one of those white boys like Eminem, 6ix9ine who think their apart of the black culture.. instead he should be educated and learn. But to ruin his life over it? Dam Reddit you guys are mean and vile.


bonercoleslaw

He posted it in 2019, not 2009. If this was a stupid kid mistake then fair play but there is no excuse for not knowing this stuff now and you have to put the mental health of the current black islanders first. Imagine what would have happened if he’d said something in the villa. Also Danny has acted like a racist on the show with the Aaron/Lucinda stuff and gravitated to the only other likely racist in the house, Mr. Brexit himself Jake. However, we’ve come to expect this from Love Island since the Anton thing and the fact toothy Connor didn’t get kicked off for acting disgusted that Sophie had been with a black guy. The U.K. is an incredibly racist country (despite what some government funded reports might want you to think) and this will naturally be reflected in its reality tv. It’s gross.


bab_101

It wasn’t Sophie he was disgusted at, wasn’t it his ex pre joining the show?


bonercoleslaw

I can’t really remember but it was still fucking gross and he should have been removed the second it left his lips


bab_101

Oh yeah I agree he never should have been able to enter but it was stuff pre villa that surfaced during his time in the villa I think. From what I remember his ex spoke out about his reaction to her getting with a black guy whilst he was in there.


bonercoleslaw

Yeah I just looked it up and you’re absolutely right. I think I’m confusing it with some of the creepy possessive stuff he did in the villa to Sophie which also made me question how he ended up on the show.


bab_101

Oh yeah I do remember seeing some Danny like possessive red flags during his short stint on the show.


worldsLargestBeaver

If he's ignorant enough to have that shit on his Instagram whilst applying for a reality show, I would be verrrry surprised if there's not more where that came from. Danny doesn't even have to actively "say" anything. Even if the white contestants and production don't clock it, I guarantee the black people will pick up on his vibe. Honestly its almost worse when it's happening under the radar, because people make all types of excuses for it, but it's still dehumanzing at the end of the day.


bonercoleslaw

All WOC get a harder time on the show that white women, for sure, generally in ways that aren’t necessarily reflected outside the villa (more choice of partners) but the dating/aesthetic prejudice against dark skinned black women is well documented in society and even within the black community. I’m not sure what the producers can do to combat these deeply ingrained racist beauty standards but it’s horrible watching dark skinned girls get thrown under the bus year after year. The fact Teddy was more attracted to a walking advert for not getting fillers than the gorgeous and effervescent Kaz absolutely blows my mind but it just goes to show how deeply rooted the racism in dating choices in UK really is.


bab_101

I think Teddy and Faye have a genuine connection tbf and he also wanted to carry on getting to know Rachel. I think it’s a bit steep to say that choice was racially motivated.


bonercoleslaw

I’m not saying it was consciously racially motivated (more subconscious European beauty standards) but he definitely didn’t want to keep getting to know Rachel (she was creepy) from what I saw and I don’t personally believe he’s actually into Faye but maybe I’m misreading the situation based on the tiny snapshots we get to see. Sidenote: how did Rachel pass the mental health screening? She was quite clearly emotionally fragile & unstable and I really fear for her coming out having dealt with so much rejection.


quick_dry

I think you're misreading Faye and Teddy, "obviously it's early days" and "anyone's head could be turned", but the interactions on main show and UnseenBits seem pretty genuine and more like a 'real couple' than the others who bang on about types and whatnot.


ForeverBeHolden

Agreed, they have become my favorite couple. They are really sweet and seem like they have a more mature mindset and I can see them actually working on the outside.


bonercoleslaw

I just think he’s faking it to stay comfortable because he knows she’s not that good looking & nobody else will graft her. Just my opinion and obviously impossible to truly know but I think he cares more about the other benefits of being an islander (ironic given Faye’s comments about Lucinda) and I think he will forget himself and his head will turn if they put fit enough people in during Casa Amor though looking at the newest “bombshells” and most of the cast so far, it seems the producers don’t actually know what fit is.


bab_101

It’s a bit unfair to say that about Faye especially considering I swear she was picked the most out of the original boys.


bab_101

Honestly he seemed to want to keep getting to know Rachel to me which I don’t really understand why. She seemed way too intense and forward but he may be into that which is why he likes Faye. I really like him and Faye and think they seem to really like each other. Edit: yeah 100% Rachel was a hot mess


Afri-Dan

What is your solution?


bonercoleslaw

I’m not sure I really have one or at least not one that can be implemented in time for the next season of Love Island because these racist beauty standards are societally ingrained into British/European culture and have been for decades. That’s why I said I’m not sure what the producers can do about it, they’ve clearly attempted to stick someone in for the dark skinned girls of this and past seasons (usually a black guy) and had it backfire (see: Danny & Yewande, Teddy & possibly this new fella Tyler for Kaz). You can’t even blame the lads really, you can’t really choose who you fancy and if you’re a relatively basic person bombarded with images of white blondes as the archetypal attractive women your entire life you are naturally going to gravitate to that especially when they’ve also been conditioned to hyper sexualise you as a black man. It’s an issue we have to solve as a society but conversations like this are surely a good start.


Afri-Dan

Yeah, I think the solution is time. Society is more diverse now so future generations should theoretically be more diverse in their types. Types might even disappear altogether ideally.


Gigamon2014

Very true.


Fifanegro

Your absolutely right I was really hoping he would pick kaz I think they would have been a good couple. I don't understand how people are attracted to Faye yes she's great TV but in terms of beauty this season she's lower on the scale.


[deleted]

It’s all about preferences, I don’t think any of them bar Lucinda is all that special but some people think all the girls are gorgeous


Redeemium

Are black men who don’t date black women racists against themselves?


sofiaduany7

This isn’t the smart ass take u think it is


bonercoleslaw

It’s called colourism and it’s a statistically observable phenomenon in dating preferences both within and out with the black community in which proximity to whiteness is seen as more desirable due to European beauty standards. Also internalised racism is also definitely a thing. But yeah, why not be glib about it and expose your lack of intellect to the world?


wordsmithfantasist

Honestly fuck the love island producers. they’re anti-black for forcing Kaz (and Rachel previously) to go through this shit. They could’ve argued ignorance in previous years but not anymore.


[deleted]

They’ve convinced me this year that they know exactly what they’re doing and they have no intention of changing it. They probably think the more we’re talking about it, the better for them. As long as people keep watching, they won’t change anything.


comingforyou22

They played N****s in Paris the episode after Danny entered the villa, they’re doing it on purpose at this point


mnj033

The Love Island UK producers need diversity training and general training on how to cast and do their job. Love Island USA is doing just fine...


InterruptingCar

Hugo's two half-Asian suitors both had a lot of facial work done in a way that's super-obvious, which he has said he specifically doesn't like, so I would read more into that than the fact that they are half-Asian. Also, Lucinda's been more attracted to Brad and Aaron and Hugo's not trying to start drama. He may have tried to suss out her interest in him but because he decided to let Lucinda and Brad/Aaron (Aaron his mate in the villa) explore their connection first because Lucinda was more interested in them, it probably never made the edit because it didn't cause drama. Hugo doesn't cause drama anymore (not after the "Fake" thing, we've seen how much he hated being in the centre of that), which is a fair enough reason to want him off the show, but I don't know why people are acting like he's behaving badly. Not to mention I don't think the other female Islanders find him as physically attractive as the other male Islanders either.


Drippie

Great post. I've come to realise that Love Island is so popular partly due to all the social commentary it provokes. We watch the show and wonder what it tells us about wider society. The show raises a mirror to our lives and often reveals some uncomfortable truths regarding race relations, social dynamics, dating strategy etc. ​ The point you raise about WOC being seen as less desirable is one that has been discussed widely. What seems to be less talked about, for whatever reason, is the fact that even the male contestants of colour; Toby, Teddy and Aaron seem to be attracted exclusively to white girls. And this just seems to be completely accepted and unquestioned?! Before I began watching this show I didn't realise how common it was for black men to be opposed to dating within their own race which I find a bit bizarre and I haven't seen a convincing explanation for why that is.


aimhighsquatlow

I think not getting picked in that challenge was a knock to Hugo’s confidence, and I reckon he’s a bit of a people pleaser so would graft when one of the lads is already with a girl. AJ was too full on and clearly not his type too and I actually appreciate his honesty then just getting with her cause she showed an interest. I think the new blonde bombshell coming in will be interested in him - and she seems more his type.


[deleted]

AJ also flirted with every other guy too. It looked to me like Liam was her preference. The girls almost all go for the tall, dark and handsome stereotype.


Informal-Mine

I honestly don't think she would have picked Liam, he's 21 and she's 28. There was no way in hell it was gonna work out while Hugo is a little older and a lot more mature.


[deleted]

There's a difference on the show and in real life though IMO.


Informal-Mine

……I don’t get what your point is? In real life Hugo and her would work out way more for the exact reason I gave.


[deleted]

My point isn't that complicated. The age gap with her and Liam is less of an issue on this show than if they same people met in real life.


Informal-Mine

So we’re saying the same thing? Like what is your point tho? Are they not on the show to find love that will continue on outside the show? Like why are you stating the obvious…acting like you made some type of sense lol


[deleted]

We're saying the direct opposite. I don't think the age gap with AJ and Liam would have been an issue. Follow the conversation. After I said that she seemed to like Liam more, you said: > I honestly don't think she would have picked Liam, he's 21 and she's 28. There was no way in hell it was gonna work out while Hugo is a little older and a lot more mature. And I replied: > There's a difference on the show and in real life though IMO. In other words, the age gap between her and Liam would not have been a deal breaker on Love Island IMO.


Informal-Mine

Okay then you’re point is just invalid because the whole point of the show is to find love that will still work on the outside. The end goal isn’t love island so if his age is a dealbreaker in real life, it should also be a dealbreaker on the show, unless you’re being fake and didn’t come to find love 🤷🏾‍♀️


[deleted]

I'm not sure how you can say that if you have watched many series of Love Island. There are routinely couples that would likely not have coupled up on the outside. Especially when there's a lack of guys over 25.


MalingeringMerchant

I think the Hugo situation is tough, I think AJ is cringey and combined with the fact that he clearly doesn’t fancy her it was never gonna work. The Sharon situation was a bit more complicated cos they had a bit of a rift at the start then she only seemed interested in Hugo once she was rejected by Aaron so he probably felt like he was being used to stay in. The Kaz situation is clearly colourism and I see no other explanation. Unless there’s something happening off camera


Lilly123xxx

wait why do you think AJ is cringy I'm genuinely curious?


sweetiewrap

I dont think Hugo rejecting AJ and Sharon has much to do with their race more to so with their over the top plastic surgery and their personalities, it seems like hes looking for a genuine and smart girl and I just wonder why he even applied for love island


Bitter_Natural1506

Why the fuck Hugo even went on LI if he doesn't like 'fake girls'. Hasn't he watched the previous seasons? Everyone has lips fillers and most have had their boobs done. Don't like girls who had surgery and injections, don go on LI lol It's like if a woman said she doesn't like guys with abs - most guys on LI are ripped


THEBEAST666

Because even if he comes out of the show having liked no one, he'll be popular, have big social media following and probably loads of girls his actual type will be after him having seen him on TV. People go on the show for fame.


DragSentMeHere

It seem to me that the producers have had enough of Kaz and she will be the girl to leave the villa in the next recoupling just before Casa Amor.


cerrimat

Very unlikely. Why send off the most popular islander???


twinpeaksbel

I think Hugo not liking Sharon and AJ doesn't have to do with them being half asian or having asian heritage but (in my opinion) how they have had some sort of enhancement in their faces, if that makes sense. Saying that, I am not keen in Hugo, he has the r/niceguys energy going on for him. And as for Kaz, I totally agree with you. Let's hope this new man gives her all the attention she deserves!


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duma31

Honestly man, I'm a guy but I hate when people get offended on our behalf, like it feels demeaning in a way, maybe I'm completely off in my point but I see so much outrage nowadays from people that have nothing to do with it. On a side point, I also hate when people hold onto things like the kaz/toby situation or the Hugo/Faye/Sharon "fake" situation when they clearly moved on from it. We see 1% of their days and parts of their personality are edited to fit a storyline/narrative. Why do people get so invested in this, to the point where they see bigger picture problems as if love island is the bastion of a perfect world where there should be equal representation, and other idealistic stuff. Sorry for my rant lol.


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[deleted]

It’s too much I take a guess and say the average age of this sub is quite low and they take things far more seriously than they should. Editing is everything on this show.


duma31

I'm ngl, your description and comment history is a bit sus, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. The internet has made me a bit of a cynic. What you're saying though makes sense.


Fifanegro

Thank you love island is where alot of people project alot of their feelings and experiences onto the show. It's just a fun show to watch people do dumb things and fall in love.


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Jumpy_Location1589

Hugo was trying with Lucinda, but he and Aaron dropped out when it was clear she was interested in Brad. Giving Hugo people he isn't attracted to is no different than not putting in people who are attracted to Kaz


[deleted]

Well this post now seems luck a bunch of waffle. Tyler has clearly been brought in specifically for Kaz


rdesk86

kaz is annoying asf, hence why nobody wants to couple up with her


lexiefiller

HONESTLY this post described it so well, every season i watch i’m so disappointed in the WOC getting overlooked and the whole “nice guy” troupe


rethinkr

glad you said \*kiiinda looks like\*, because the majority of top applicants for the show happen to be white, circumstantially, and the producers arent going to disproportionately make decisions based on race distribution at all, after all, they'd get criticism for trying to \*look\* diverse but not actually \*being\* genuine about it, apart from their image.


khsuera

I just feed bad for Hugo and Kaz. It’s not nice to watch them not be a part of any couples and it’s like they’re on vacation at this point. It’s not their fault obviously, it’s all on casting. They’ve yet again neglected the dark skinned woman and the plain “nice guy”.


ElNombreOccupado

Yep, everyone is racist cos nobody fancies Kaz … When you can explain to me why Chuggs got two days cos nobody fancies him and Kaz has had weeks I’ll accept there is some racist agenda 🤷‍♂️


Aloebae

Yep, that’s exactly what the post was saying 🤦🏾‍♀️ Chloe fancied Chuggs but kept Hugo because of their friendship (some ppl believe it was producer interference because he was popular even back then). Brad grafted Rachel harder and she happened to be more attracted to him (which she regrets).


ElNombreOccupado

Fancied him so much she’d rather stay in as mates with someone else? Riiiiiiiight. Besides, that doesn’t change my point, he still got dumped after a day while Kaz has been there weeks. Not sure what Brad and Rachel has to do with my point 🤷‍♂️


Aloebae

What part of producer interference are you not getting lmao it made no sense at the time for her to pick Hugo - she also tried to unsuccessfully sway Rachel into picking Chuggs so make of that what you will. The point is Chuggs would have won over Rachel if he tried harder, but Brad was the one who made her feel sexy whilst he pushed her away when they kissed in that slime challenge ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


ElNombreOccupado

Lmao, the bit that proves my point there isn’t some racist agenda? They’ve chosen to keep Kaz in for this long and could have done it at any time like they did with Chuggs. As for the bollocks about trying harder, could say the same about Kaz and literally everyone in there 🤷‍♂️


Aloebae

What are you even going on about lmao no one, not even the original poster, said anything about a racist agenda. We’re just saying they’re not bringing people on that find her attractive (minus Liam who said he did and wanted to get to know her but made no effort to, despite not really being into Faye after a day or so) They kept Kaz on because she’s a fan favourite and booting her out would make her the third woc in a row to have left the island. Kaz tried the most with Toby - she clearly wasn’t his type. She tried with Teddy - same story. Then with (unfortunately) Danny. Look who they chose instead. Are you seeing the pattern here or are you going to bring up Chuggs again lmao


ElNombreOccupado

How is making out people are treated differently based on the colour of their skin not saying there is a racist agenda? “Lmao” Yep, I’m going to bring up chuggs again because that’s still not been answered 🤷‍♂️ because people not fancying her, or her fancying them, isn’t racist. News flash. Happened loads of times with people of all colour like … drum roll please … with Chuggs who got like a day.


Aloebae

How is saying they haven’t provided any man who’s type includes or is just black women saying there’s a racist agenda? If I thought there was overall racist agenda I would have said so. There isn’t, just negligence (at worst) or even incompetence (at best) when it comes to the two black female islanders. You’re acting like we can’t criticise the show for that lmaoo Where did I say people not fancying her was racist? Are you reading what I’m saying or what you think I’m saying 💀 I’ve already answered about Chuggs lmaoo if you don’t want to believe that there was something between him and Chloe that was squashed by the producers then that’s fine. He was also unlucky because Liberty closed herself off because of Jake, but she said after she would have been more open had Jake been honest with her.


ElNombreOccupado

How is it not? 😂😂😂 By the way, 2 of the men in there have been coupled up with black women. One of them with Kaz herself. Maybe, just maybe, the issue is none of them find Kaz attractive and it has fuck all to do with skin colour? Maybe if she tried a flirting tactic that wasn’t shifting from side to side and going “ok ok ok!” Somebody might? Nah you didn’t answer about Chuggs. You started banging on about other islanders and that weird Chloe thing that makes Zero fucking sense 🤷‍♂️ like you just did with Liberty and Jake. I have no idea what that has got to do with pointing out Kaz has been given way more chances than most are in her position.


Aloebae

You’re really attached to the straw man you made huh 💀anyways Oh wow you’re right two men did couple up with black women! Except: a) Toby was never into her, she clearly wasn’t his type b) Brad was never into Rachel. She was just his ticket to staying in and he admitted to playing her. Amazing point!🥴 They don’t find her attractive because she’s not their type Jesus Christ what’s not clicking lmaooo it’s not her fault they want “petite blondes” or “tanned brunettes”. Producer interference to keep in a fan favourite over a bombshell who’s only been there a few hours doesn’t make any sense to you? 🤔 Sigh I was explaining why Chuggs didn’t have any luck, especially as he was only given a day and the girls were perfectly content in their couplings (like Liberty, Kaz and Sharon). Why you’re so intent in making a false comparison with him and Kaz is beyond me. I mean the “chances” she’s been given mean fuck all when the guy isn’t into you because you’re not his type. Which is the point that you keep missing so hard it’s almost impressive 😭😭😭😭 Anyway, we’re getting nowhere with this and enjoy the episode mate✌🏾


DragSentMeHere

It seem to me that the producers have had enough of Kaz and she will be the girl to leave the villa in the next recoupling just before Casa Amor. I hope I’m wrong


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BlueGhettoValentine

If you aren't already aware, you've posted this same comment 7 times on this thread


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muoyowa

You must be blind because….💀