Tag/lock that lift out, Complaining about it is fine but everybody in that shop has the power to do the right thing before somebody gets hurt.


I can't agree enough with this. It may just have some flex now, but how long until that flex turns to lift pads moving and shit falling off a lift. Lock out/tag out. Tell the manager. Get that impending lawsuit fixed.




This post would make fine evidence of the employees failure to report a safety hazard to the management team. - OPs bosses


The same managment who heard it was an issue a good 30 times before it crushed the life out of their senior hand... "A man with that many hours under the hood shoulda known better"


Anything to cover their own arses. At least if you tag and log it then it’s on them if it kills you.


>then it’s on them if it kills you. I mean if it falls and kills you it's literally on you... The lift I mean not the liability




Well they did get where they were going first !


Email is an excellent way to build this paper trail. Send a manager a quick not with the picture via company email. BCC your personal account.


That is a Tahoe too. What do those weigh now? 6000lbs? Overload and metal fatigue what is going on.




Gross weight is potential load with passengers and rear cargo/tow over the axles. Curb weight is more commonly the shipping weight. Source: pickup/deliver 1000's of vehicles a year in my small 96k [tonka](https://i.imgur.com/tkkguqC.jpg).


I agree with that too. Service writers need to know what capacity lifts are available and plan accordingly.


Service writers plan? Plan what? How to fuck everyone for their own benefit? OK I know they aren't all like that.


... they aren't all like that, right? _..right?_


they sure act like it -.-


Yes they are.


This has been a big source of frustration for me at work. The GM dealer we have in town has one heavy duty lift that our hearses can go on, so there's been way too many times that the car sits there all day and doesn't get into the shop because it's occupied by a 3/4 ton truck.


Put 'em on retainer. Pay X amount every month for right of first repair. No one other than another commercial entity will have swag over you. Stealer will like the prospect of free $50 or whatever every other month or so.


> It looks seriously overloaded. In addition to being old and well used it probably was built before people realized that they absolutely had to have a >5500lb truck to ~~keep up with their neighbors~~ go to the grocery store and pick their kids up from school.


As a college student, I absolutely adore my 2005 Sienna. Haul all the friends to Taco Bell and move their dorm shit in one trip too. People with behemoth SUVs really do have it all wrong


Repairing it is cheaper than the insurance claim/rate increases.


I've yet to know a boss who agrees


Owner of the shop I work with has all lifts professionally inspected every 6 months. Repaired or replaced immediately if it doesn't pass inspection. I don't think a single lift is more than seven years old The whole shop runs that way.


Now that's a boss that cares about safety. I commend the owner for that and all shops should do this!


And a boss that cares about money. He realizes that keeping the equipment running properly means that he can keep everyone working, making him money, as well as avoiding accidents which end up costing more than the PM costs.


Yeah I feel like some owners fail to realize an injury due to their negligence will cost them way more than keeping things in working order. My boss didn't realize how much money it costed them until I got knocked out of work for 2 months thanks to getting both feet injured from a faulty ladder


And it's not just the cost from employee injuries. If your machines/equipment can't work, neither can the employees.


Isn't it mildly ironic that owners push the GM to push the service manager to push the writers to push the techs to sell sell sell maintenance under the auspices that maintaining something is typically cheaper than repairing it, but don't seem to subscribe to the same thought about their equipment? Just sayin's all...


That's the right way. Don't fuck around with actual tons of metal above your head.


You work with crappy bosses then. Always safety first.


Maybe just me but who wants to deal with a coworkers mangled body trapped under a car.


Just sweep up around him and turn the lights off. Let the morning crew deal with it. (Bonus if that guy is on the morning crew)


Oh come the fuck on man! At least throw a handful or two of oil dry on him! I tell you there's some real sickos on here.


Depends on the coworker?


At least we'll finally know if Steve has that 20 bucks he owes me




The shop probably charges 150/hour for the labour though....


Whoa now. Lets not blame the guy that can get fired if he makes waves. This is the owner/manager's fault as long as someone makes them aware. This is a good opportunity to claim that a hoist has a mechanical fault, and to call in a hoist technician. Talk to the hoist tech while he's in the shop and get him to condemn it or recommend it be replaced. Then you've got it in writing, and you aren't the bad guy.




Yeah and if they fire you for safety procedures, OSHA will love them so much!


Never happening. Flat rate techs will do absolutely anything after a year or two on the job. It's why the people running the industry love flat rate.


I feel so lucky that I was hourly. No way I'd touch New England car if I was being paid what the flat rate book said.


Book rate in california in 2008 was pretty nice.


I can only dream about what it must be like to work without a rain of rust every time I bump something.


Here in California we trade rust for sand and dust. Lots of off-roaders out here. Even the little Priuses. They'll go out into the desert for a weekend of quading and camping and then bring the dunes back with them.


I work at a mine in the Midwest. I can’t escape rust OR sand.


In Alberta, we have the right to refuse unsafe work thankfully.


Can confirm. I've done this on a few occasions actually... I once locked out an unsafe hoist, costing the company thousands and thousands of dollars to correct. My manager reprimanded me. Hours later, the company owner called me from head office, thousands of kilometres away. He thanked me for bringing the issue to his attention, gave me his direct number and told me to call him if the manager ever gave me a hard time about anything ever again. It got fixed, my manager learned from it too and the shop had a 180 degree turn around in regards to safety. Then there was the other time at a client site where I refused confined space entry without gas checks and a safety watch, in a clearly dangerous chemical environment no less... Ugh... But at least the boss was backing me up on this one. Work shouldn't hurt.


> Work shouldn't hurt. The perfect way to put it. I am glad the owner sees that you did the right thing and eventually your boss turned out and started seeing things in a different light. At the end of the day everyone wants to go home safely.


Pretty sure that right extends to all provinces. I'm in NS, and I'd never even THINK of working with a lift that had that kind of sag on it.


Let's hope their response isn't "fine, guess you're out of a lift until it's fixed."


Better to work on a creeper than to end up crushed to death if it were me


Right?? Zero chance I'm getting under that thing as-is!


Shut that lift down. No way in hell I would use it. Manager says no, shut it down anyway. If they fire you over it, you have a nice lawsuit. This is extremely unsafe.


This needs to be the top comment Edit, glad he got the recognization he deserves 31-800 upvotes


Lift this comment up.


A most new lifts installed can cost less than 10,000. If you work on this you’re not valuing your life and your employer doesn’t either


$5k-10k for a new lift is far cheaper than a wrongful death lawsuit.


Or a workers comp claim.....


Or a dropped car...


*And a dropped car...


While I agree the danger is a massive problem, the workers comp claim is not needed to exceed the cost of a replacement lift. A new lift is what? 10k for a nice one? Hell a set of fancy ass wireless Stertil-Koni lifts is what, 20k? Lets say this failed and no one was hurt, one totaled late model car is easily 20k, especially right now. A totaled mid life used car is easily 10k. Again, I'm not downplaying the danger, I'm just pointing out that there is zero financial sense to using a lift like this when the best case scenario for a failure costs more than a replacement.


I don’t know about your local laws, but in Ontario the managers can be held criminally responsible if they don’t get it fixed and someone gets hurt. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/scaffolding-sentence-first-ontario-1.3398816


Good news the Tech stooped the paint getting on the floor by using his head as a shield.


[https://www.ebay.com/itm/384177204126?hash=item5972beeb9e:g:4jcAAOSwQshgp2Gi](https://www.ebay.com/itm/384177204126?hash=item5972beeb9e:g:4jcAAOSwQshgp2Gi) I paid $4800 **including installation** for a lift 16 months ago. Not the low bidder, either...


I paid $2299 (delivered) for the 10,000 pounder that I installed in my shop at home. Lifts are cheap these days.


FYI - As an automotive lift service tech this is almost 100% due to one arm lifting. Lock it out and get a new one. Prices/leadtimes are crazy now but ~$6000 in an industry that on average generates $250,000/year in revenue per bay is a drop in the bucket to make sure employees are safe. I would refuse to use this


Of course this is your take; you are obviously in the pocket of Big Lift™️. /s


Good to see your manager weighs variable expenses over safety and liability. I'd hate to see how much disarray your shop is in. There are some things you can go cheap on, peoples safety isn't one of them. -Service Manager


Replacing or repairing the arm pins usually fixes this without the overhead of a new lift. \-Shop Forman (that actually has to deal costs and production capacity)


Yeah to me this looks less like arms bending and more the arm mounts being worn. It's just semantics though, this still needs to be addressed.




I understand where you're coming from, but I gotta say "Hell No!" to that. As soon as someone welds/cuts/drills/etc. **anything** on that lift in a way that changes how it came from the factory (apart from replacing OEM parts with new OEM parts) you might as well have not bothered - any insurance you might have thought you had just went null and void. tl;dr Don't trust a shop-floor weld with your life. No matter how good a welder you've got. Just replace the damned part. Edit: Fuck me, getting hate from armchair shop foremen. Have fun out there in the Real World, kids.




I'm an engineer and I see all kinds of failures from welders "fixing" things. Even had stories of people dying from it. Nobody wants that liability. Leave that liability with the OEM provider. Just replace the parts. Now if it's your own personal lift and you want to weld on it go right ahead. But any company should know that it's not a good idea.


> Leave that liability with the OEM provider. Just replace the parts. From one engineer to another - thank you for providing another voice of reason here.


Yup. There’s an entire engineering field that is based on the science of welding. There’s a lot of factors that are involved when you heat up metal to actually weld which can all ruin a specific hardening or annealing that was supposed to be there to ensure proper function the metal.


I understand that a good welder could fix this and make it safe, but if there's **ever** an accident involving this lift at some point in the future, believe me - insurance companies won't care. There's a reason why we see posts on here about having to rip apart the front end of a Subaru to replace an entire wiring harness just because a couple of wires in the harness were accidentally cut. If that harness/wires are in any way related to automated safety systems like distance-controlled cruise control - no wiring splices for you. Yank it and put in a new one.


Moral of the story: A good welder would pass and not weld a piece of engineered metal.


You can get a new lift for less than 4K. My friend replaces his every 5 to 8 years and then sells the used one for about 2k. Usually there's nothing wrong with the lifts it's just cheap safety.




The lawsuit that follows that death will outweigh the cost of replacement


Not on this month's P&L numbers.....until it doesn't.


The lawsuit of a dropped car is pretty close to the cost of replacement.


Wrongful death will go far beyond the 10k needed for a replacement


This is the oldest lift in the shop. We are slowly getting them all changed. We are a 34 bay shop.


Then you should be a 33 bay shop. This shouldn't be used.


Second this. 100% All the more reason you are wrong to use the lift.. I'm finding this logic difficult to follow


Repair the damn thing, I would not get under it.


No repairs for this lift, it's finished.


I used to get sub par equipment sent out to job sites, one day I started destroying the shit and buying brand new at closest vendors, didn’t take long we had pretty good crap and getting to listen to the owners son whine was a plus. Yes I know the lift isn’t as easy as a normal tool etc.


In my time of working for a large business who was too cheap to properly equip its employees, I learned to not break things. Destroy them. Something that is broken can be repaired and placed back into service, even if it shouldn't be. Something that is destroyed must be replaced.


Best part was I’d tell them it was destroyed, called in once and ordered all new ladders, when he asked what about the ones they shipped I told him they were in a farm pond at the job site. I wasn’t lying lol.


Employee: "Our ambulance keeps overheating because the head gaskets are shot. Rebuild this thing!" Company: "Nah, we topped off the coolant. She's good as new." Let's see what locking this thing in first gear and driving around town has to say about that.


Install some of those crankcase cooling holes


“More than one way to skin a cat”


Just a death waiting to happen


Its still good to hang christmas decoration on, but thats it.


I would lock it out. Shut power off and lock the breaker so it cant be turned back on


Even pondering this as an option should get people wanting to go union. Otherwise your options are work under it or find another job.


Yea, I have never worked for a union and I'm just astounded at the very idea of locking out a piece of my employers equipment against their wishes. I'm just reading and thinking: "What? You can do that!?" lol I don't know of any union places around me or I would try one out for sure.


Then it shouldn't be used.


That actually makes their liability worse. They know the gear is in disrepair and in need of replacement. Yet, they have not.


Look dude you have one life and do you really want it to end because your manager was too much of a bitch to take one lift out of rotation? Very few things are worth dying for, your job isn't one of them. It's not an "if" it breaks but a "when"


exactly - i had a professor say it best: you walked into work vertically, you do not want to leave horizontally. he also said if you ever get fired for not wanting to violate a safety hazard you will be hired on the spot by a new company that at least half ass values its employees. no company wants osha up their ass or doing more surprise inspections.


If you can afford a 33 lift then you can afford to replace it or operate at 32. Jesus Christ.


ridiculous…..send that picture to osha and open a state labor board complaint


Pretty sure osha also pays bounties for shit like this but I could be wrong.


thats some piece of crap boss in that shop….id have that lift disconnected or tagged out with a lock


Years ago, I sent OSHA a complaint about my old employer using the electrical room as a storage closet for the mop bucket and floor wax, and another one to the EPA over them cleaning the shop by blowing shit out into the parking lot, and the storm drain which (eventually) leads to a lake who's only outflow is evaporation. Apparently, the resulting fine was pretty damned steep...


Btw that is a 2021 Tahoe that is already getting a transmission.


8speed? The 8speed torque converters have been trash since day 1. 6speed? Fucking trusty. 10speed? Also money. 8speed? Couldn't put enough money on the hood for me to buy one. Anyone know the common thread between the 6 and 10speed transmissions?


> Anyone know the common thread between the 6 and 10speed transmissions? [Not evenly divisible by four?](https://c.tenor.com/yHMhuPQAbwUAAAAM/pfsf1968-think.gif)


Good to hear. I was hoping to pick up a '13 or so Yukon Denali for a daily and was wondering about the 6 speed. I had a Colorado ZR2 Duramax with the 6 speed for a couple years and it was fine in that application.


I have a 2012 Denali. The torque converter is a weak spot too.


Don't quote me on this, but im pretty sure the 8speed unit is a German ZF unit, and those guys have mastered building an overly capable 8 speed you'll find everywhere from supercars to big ass trucks. Don't know much about the other two, but I know when GM started doing 8's they used those, so Im kinda assuming they still do


I know the 10 speed was a joint project with Ford so...


What’s wrong with these transmissions? I’ve been debating on getting a Tahoe or Suburban. Need to be able to tow my 24’ boat. Total weight is around 6000lbs with the trailer.


Sitting here wondering the same thing since I was considering one.


Is it a certain trans or all new GM ones? Our company truck is only a few years old and already needs one.


Can't speak for the 10 speeds, which I believe are standard on the 21 Tahoes, but my '15 8 speed GMC had all kinds of hard shift issues, mostly because of the torque converter. I wouldn't buy another GM 8 speed from these newer model years.


My 6l80e has torque converter issues. I wish I swapped it out for a stronger billet torque converter before the original GM one sent metal through the transmission. The fluid that came out at 127k was black. It's been changed before too.


Got rid of my '19 Canyon with the 8 speed being one of the reasons. Got the shudder pretty early on. If you came to a stop sign but didnt stop all the way, if you tipped in it would slam into 1st. Also had weird issue where for the very first start in the day, when I backed out of the driveway and put it into gear its like its in neutral when you went to accelerate and then it would slam in. Fine rest of the day. Sad because I loved the truck but it was a lemon from the start. Including a coolant leak off the lot. Traded it at 9k miles, luckily got what I paid for it and left GM.


There's a clutch pressure learn procedure shops can do for the 8 speeds. I've had good luck with it correcting shift issues on a few vehicles. Not sure if it's a sign of a component wearing out, but none of them have come back yet. Edit: like someone else said, doing the fluid swap to the Dex-HD has fixed shudder issues for me too. Sorry to hear about the coolant leak, glad you got rid of a lemon


They should've taken the ZF8 instead of developing their own. Look at Dodge.


History doesn't repeat but it rhymes. Seems like every time GM adds more 'speeds' to their transmissions they have reliability issues for awhile. Going all the way back to when they started fucking around with overdrive in the 1970's.


Yeah I wouldn't touch those GM 8 speeds either just from what ive heard from GM employed family members. They had trouble with them all the way through development and every time they thought it was finally solved I would hear about another new problem arising to deal with.


Lots of problems with our 21 Tahoe trannies too


What issues did you have?


They keep fuckin dying. Not going into gear or stripping teeth and whatnot. Had to get 4 or 5 fixed already, under 20km


Sounds like a metallurgy issue. That's not an excuse, but most manufacturers are having trouble with quality. Drawings don't actually lead to the right parts. The "tribal knowledge" retired or got new jobs.


This is likely it, the 10 speed was co designed by GM and Ford and is in **a lot** of vehicles. So far its been proven pretty solid. Supply chains have just been super fucked up and based on the corners being cut elsewhere (pulling features, shipping unfinished vehicles to have the dealer install the final pieces) I wouldn't be surprised if that's just the tip of the iceberg and vehicles built during these shortages aren't going to have a lot of other issues down the road.


It really sucks for everyone. The manufacturers don't want to ship broken stuff and obviously the customers don't want broken stuff. Shit is just still very fucked up.


Popular thing also is "engineer put it this expensive alloy... Naah, well use this cheaper one instead!


Yup. Wouldn't surprise me. These are vehicles that never tow either.


20km where km is kilomile. This will really mess with that conversion bot.


Well my $0.02 we've replaced 2 of them on our personal denalis in the past 3 years. We only pull boats and snowmobile trailers with them... They are garbage. Edit: both have been 10-speeds.


Lmao of course it is


Next service on deck: bent push rods


That's not till around 90k miles... You have some time.


Yeah that's a bag of no. I've had an old lift fail on me, luckily no one was hurt but it cost 50ish k dollars.


Refuse to work under that. Just refuse. If they fire you for refusing, sue the fuck out of your boss. Whoever is running that place clearly has the bottom line valued over the life of their employees.


There is no fucking way I would work under this lift. No way....


Is that a "Bend" Pak lift? Lol. Surprised no one else made the joke yet


It's a PakBend. Pack it on there until she bends. Equally surprised I had to scroll down so far but also impressed it was hidden below "sort ya rig out" safety concern comments.


If you don’t want to call osha send me the address and I will. Get the fuck out from under that thing


Ask for a face to face meeting on the shop floor with whoever has the power to sort this. Place however many seats under a raised car on that lift. I’m pretty sure your point will have made itself before they choose to take a seat. 👌🏻


Love the idea.


It’s basically this scene from Erin Brockovich with the ‘refreshments’: https://youtu.be/BGX4nMrnxg0


Wow. Somebody call OSHA


Come with me! And you’ll see!!!! A world of osha violations………!


Words can’t express the tone of voice I’d take with the person that put my car on this rack. Yet another reason I’m glad I fix my own shit.


All the car knowledge I've ever gained was because I don't trust others to do it. The career was a side effect.


This. Going on 21 years never taking any vehicle to a mechanic shop. I use shops for alignments and body work, that is all. Well, once I had an AC system evacuated, then later recharged after changing the parts myself. After that I learned how to charge the system myself.


>Well, once I had an AC system evacuated Thank you for doing that the responsible way; the hicks in my neck of the woods just pull the valve stem and let it all vent.


*Caint nobody tell me I caint do nuthin*


Wooo triple negative! *fist bump* 😂😂


Obviously a Bend-pak


Is there a chance the rack could bend? Not on your life, my Hindu friend.


The ring came off my oil can!


Take my flathead, my good man!


OSHA!! YEAH! This guy over here!


Hah - Yeah i've dealt with that. Are you sure the arm is actually bent? or are those pins ground to a taper causing it to sag?


Looks to me more that the pins are worn or the holes wallered out than the arms bending. Either way that shit needs repairing


You are correct. The pins have tons of slack.


Our lifts were super old Westerns and our boss was cheap. We swapped the pins around on ours because they were ground on one face. That helped a little bit. Eventually he just had someone machine new ones because apparently they were either super expensive or hard to get.


Do the safety chocks still go chock chock chock as it lifts? They’re not gonna save you if the arms break, they’re only a safety for the hydraulic/pneumatic system loosing pressure bro this is a major safety problem. Destined to fail. Whoever signs your paycheck gives 0 fucks about you


If that’s in a licensed and registered repair business, they are supposed to be inspected yearly for problems like this. I’m sure the shady side businesses probably wouldn’t have their stuff inspected regularly. Also the air compressor tanks are supposed to have an inspection. Let’s be safe!!!


the crazy thing is never the extraordinarily dangerous shit people find in their shops, ive seen plenty of that, people forget to maintain things/dont know how and managers dont do their job etc. is all par for the course. the shocking thing is when people will defend their right to be killed or severely injured by not speaking up or refusing to use faulty or dangerous equipment or just do insanely stupid shit in general. when someone knows and understands that something is dangerous but would rather not cause the static because they are too afraid to lose their job or are just in such a state of cuckoldry that they think its honorable to work in conditions like this. if you tolerate shit like this, knowing the risks, you are a liability. straight up. i would refuse to work with you just as quickly as i refused to work on that lift. no fucking shot.


Helllll naw, I ain't gonna die changing the oil on someone's shit box.


Bet all the customer-facing areas are new and shiny though!


Take it out of service unless you are waiting to photograph it for #LiftAccidents?! Seriously. Don't use.


A little anonymous call to osha is in order…


and that is how you take a Tacoma to the head.


You’re dumb as a brick if you work under that. Red tag that shit.


Our shop does yearly lift inspections and as a SVC manager I've called in arms flexing and one lift that went down uneven. The lift people and garage door people hate me. But I have no plans to watch anyone die under a car and I hate doors that don't go up easy.




You didn’t know, it’s spooky season!


You do know those are replaceable, right?


So you put yourself under this? That would be a big nope. Would rather go back to jack and jackstands


Yeah I’m not working under that


I'm not sure I have enough HELL THE FUCK NO for this picture.


As a guy who used to install/service these, stop using this. New arms are not difficult to install. Have your manager call their lift service contact asap.


r/OSHA would like this one


Ummmm.... yeah. Just no. Get that shit fixed before you're a pancake


I wouldn't go near that lift


Actually.... looks like the arm is okay (it's not bending itself) but where it mounts to the lift is clearly damaged and distorted. Either way, you couldn't pay me enough to work under that thing.


OSHA has entered the chat


Most likely has picked up 3x it's rated capacity many,many times. Notice the square tube mount that isn't quite square any more. In the olden days things like lifts and cranes were built to 5x capacity. Not any more. I ran into an overhead crane service tech once that got called to a county shop where they'd picked up the back of a loaded sand truck with a 5 ton crane. Load brake wouldn't let them lower it so had to cut the cable and let 'er rip. Truck weighed 50k lbs.


Safety fourth


With a ducking Tahoe on it too, it’s time to let that lift go. Hell after pricing them out for whenever I get a home it’s not even crazy for a regular person to buy, so I’m sure it’s a very justified purchase for a mechanics shop.


*Insurance company has left the chat*


Somebody call osha. That could kill someone


Not on your life my Hindu friend!