I have doubts…

I have doubts…


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Has he ever thought maybe those women just don’t like him


I was gonna say, the advice isn't untrue simply because he hasn't found a woman who is interested. Of course he made the first move, planned the dates. He should. But did they all really show up in sweatpants, no makeup, hair a mess, letting him hold the entire convo? All of them? Not a single on texted him back? Not a single one showed effort in her preparation for their rendez-voux? *Really?* Why do I suspect they all got dolled up and disappointed? Someone this whiny isn't pinging my wow-meter either. Thankfully, I'm not in the market.


Yeah they probably did initially put in effort only for him to do something to put them off. Idiot scrotes.


So...the bare minimum? He's bitching about the bare minimum.


I would love to hear from these women he dated. Something tells me his “effort” is Netflix and chill with an occasional walk in the park. And his first date idea is probably always coffee.


Also notice how he says "make the convo interesting?" Aka. talking about ME and MY interests and mansplaining everything to you


Someone in this now deleted thread asked for examples of these convos and OP replied “no :)” That tells me everything I need to know (not that I didn’t already know it)


Yeah, it must be the women who are the problem. /s


But he PlAnNeD the walking dates don't you get it, those ungrateful wh*res wouldn't even invite him to coffee, split the bill and offer to suck his peepee on the first date! It's not fair they never put in the same effort as him 😂/s


I also think what he considers effort is not the same as what the women would consider effort. Setting aside time out of her day, showering, dressing up, doing her hair, putting on makeup, nails, shaving, arranging a babysitter, the emotional labor on the date itself, the emotional labor of pre date and post date conversation... like, yes, to a degree a man will do some of these same things, but the woman has way more expectations. The vast majority of men have no sense of style or fashion and literally just take a shower, throw on jeans or slacks and a button up, and they consider themselves dressed up for a date. If she came with that same energy he would be offended. 🙄


>Setting aside time out of her day, showering, dressing up, doing her hair, putting on makeup, nails, shaving, arranging a babysitter, the emotional labor on the date itself, the emotional labor of pre date and post date conversation... I decided to do a loose calculation of if I did all this prior to a date and it would be rushed. Shower - 15 minutes if rushed and not having to shave Dressing up - 30 minutes Hair styling - 20 minutes Makeup - 30 minutes Nails - 30 minutes Shaving - 10 minutes would be done in shower Babysitter - Usually up to 60 minutes with all the coordinating, wait time, instruction, etc. Emotional labour - entire date (let's just do 2 hours average) Post date conversation - Entire evening So taking out the PD conversation, that's loosely 3.5 hours of getting ready plus 2 hours of date time. This is if it's rushed and the hypothetical woman has a child or children, who will likely interrupt the process multiple times.


At the US minimum wage that’s $41, and a man still has the audacity to go 50/50 or offer a coffee date. My time is worth more than your budget, sir. Bye.


I LOVE when people tell on themselves. This post is basically "here's why you shouldn't waste your time with me".


Like obviously you suck dude if not one single woman has ever put forth any effort with you. Maybe just maybe you’re doing something wrong? Nah it’s easier to just blame the women


He likely is going for women at least ten years younger with a super model look while he’s overweight, bland, average who does little outside of porn and video games.


I see you found my ex. I think I know what's happening here: "I'm putting in so much effort and getting nothing in return!" "..I haven't seen you do anything?" "But I was thinking about doing things! That's effort!" I literally drew a flow chart of thoughts -> words -> actions one time and explained that I can't see thoughts and words don't mean shit if actions don't back them up. You'd think I'd just given him a secret of the universe before he promptly forgot about it the next day. I'm convinced they get off on our frustration.


"Or at least making the convos more interesting".. yea you sound like a narc. This is narc speak for "I'm bored talking about your goals and dreams and life, so I'm going to ramble about mine! A convo is only interesting when it's centered on ME!"


She’s doing her own thing, busy and succeeding and he’s too lazy and feels entitled for her whole world to revolve around him. She’s not waiting by the phone at his beck and call for a dick appointment and he can’t stand it.


He's DEFINITELY that guy on dating apps that goes "hey" when he means he always messages first, and then offers a walk date where he will talk about himself the entire time. I can go for a walk whenever I want and enjoy some silence. Why would I want to have an annoying man with me?


100% THAT GUY.


Also the irony of this post with that subreddit’s rule “No broad generalizations” with not ONE single woman, they’re all boring…


This guy is acting like HE is the prize 😂 By 'reciprocation', does he mean he wants the woman to approach him, ask him out, pay, etc. Or does he expect sex right away? Either way, he sounds repulsive and has no self awareness. Even the most desperate pick-me would reject this shlub.


Of course! You know if she doesn’t pay for her half of a date/dinner then she’s a gold digger 🙄


Men who complain about women never initiating want to be the woman. They want to be courted and chased and paid for and provided for. They’re jealous.


When women say 'If he cares, he'll put effort' we are talking about already established relationships. He obviously is talking about women he just met/matched with which is totally different situation. You have no right to expect effort from them...duh.


Yea like... he's probably thinking "who needs to actually impress a person to establish a relationship!" Also him saying that he has to put in effort to make conversations interesting makes me think that means talking more about himself and his accomplishments and not that he's actually trying to get to know any of these ladies.


Yeah well... you need to break up when the other person won’t put in equal amount of effort into the relationship, so why doesn’t he just threaten to break up with the freshly matched women!?? Those women will be so scared to lose a good guy like him and will immediately start putting in effort!! Or, he can stop whining and stop dating. Just die alone, loser.


Really, though...if a man is courting you, shouldn't he be putting in more effort? Yes, we show our interest, but a man should be making an effort, if he wants a relationship with a woman. If he's not willing to work for the relationship, he doesn't value it.


Boo fricken hoo. Let's not forget the fact that these are the type of dudes that quit putting in any effort once they end up in a committed relationship with a woman. Women are constantly expected to do all the emotional and mental labor in relationships while men usually put on 0 percent of effort in those relationships.


He’s basically saying, “why should I try because there are other guys who treat them better.”


Perfect, right? He stays in his lane, doing nothing, expecting to be treated like he's the last man on earth, but sorry 🤡, you have only one mom.


Boo hoo Sobbing


“I was nice once and now she won’t suck my sick. Wah!”


?? He's Literally doing the bare minimum?? Wow asking and planing dates and he thinks he's doing something?


Except, they do put in effort. They dress up, doll themselves up, free their schedule for you. They invest time and energy into your relationships, they open themselves to a relationship with you when statistically speaking, most women get screwed by relationships with men. They open themselves to the idea that one day they may bear your offspring. That one day they may destroy their bodies to provide you children. The gentlemanly things, the planning dates, opening doors, paying for dates, is proof of your masculinity. It is your investment in a future partner, a potential mother for your children. She does put in effort. A relationship with a woman yields many benefits. Sure, she may not pay for dates or plan them, but that isn't her job. That's not where she contributes. That's where YOU need to step in and be a man. Men and women are different and contribute different things to a relationship. Complaining about these things are proof he is not masculine and doesn't understand the differences between men and women.


>they don’t need to put in the effort. He’s so close to getting it 😂😂😂


My NVM friend complained about this to me, saying that he put in so much more effort than me into the friendship. Want to know what kind of “effort” he was talking about? Constant devaluing and negging. Criticizing my hobbies and my job. Complaining that I made him look bad in comparison (because I had a good job, my own house etc and he was unemployed and living with his mother). That I didn’t pay enough attention to him (again, I was working upwards of 50 hours in a week b/c of the way our timesheets worked and he was unemployed). Complained that I was a bad friend yet never showed any care or concern for me but constantly expected me to be a sympathetic ear for his complaints. Once or twice I had to cancel plans either because of work or because I was exhausted from work. He criticized me over that. He would complain that I didn’t call him enough yet I was the ONLY one who ever called. He never once called me. (Projecting much?) He never put in efforts into any gifts. Honestly, I’m sure his mother picked the few things I ever got during the 10 years of having this thorn in my side. He never wished me happy birthday, never remembered Christmas. Supposedly he had this massive crush on me but made no effort for Valentine’s Day or any effort at a confession or even asking me if I wanted a relationship beyond friendship. Was never considerate of my time and energy. Never took interest in anything I liked. If it was a show or a book, he’d just say that it was inferior compared to something he liked. If it was a hobby, my work was always inferior to his or never good enough to bother paying attention to. So after going through that for 10 YEARS, trust me when I say I’m skeptical of guys saying that they always put in more effort than any of their partners, because I’m dead sure that this NVM said the same thing about me.


Yup, their world view is so incredibly warped. The self-congratulatory ones are always the exact opposite of what they claim. They were raised by women who were basically mules, so their reference for ‘equality’ in relationships is totally fucked.


Maybe because...those women are not interested in you?


“No that’s impossible! I put forth the most effort ever! We go for walks in the field and I take her to Applebee’s! What more could she want?”


"effort" Translation. Scrote answered phone when she called.


Sent a few text messages, that's like 5 calories per message! What an effort /s


Now he knows what it's like to be a woman. Also planning some dates and starting the conversation is hardly the backbreaking, "amazing bf" flex he thinks it is


Sounds like the dating market is trying to give him a message. Whatever he's selling, they ain't buying. Adapt or die.


That warm fuzzy feeling I get when I see a scrote realize he's disposable :)


Lol by “date ideas” he probably means inviting women over to Netflix & chill at 1am and being mad when they don’t respond by bootycalling him


Oh he talked to his date! Prince Charming we have here. So much effort! Planned a date and had conversation! Whoa be still my beating heart, how could these terrible women be so cruel to this fantastic man???


I don't want a man to *put effort in* because that means being with me is exhausting. I want him to be energized by my presence. Talking to me is fun and enlightening. He can't see that, then NEXT.


I don’t know other women, but besides the getting ready and other stuff, I think dealing with their bullshit and giving them a pleasant experience even if they are assholes (meaning I’m a nice person to be around, not rude or anything, unlike a lot of them) at least until I leave IS EFFORT.


Someone I was dating - not even exclusively! - for three months who initially displayed HVM qualities started playing like this. He stopped putting in as much effort and clearly stopped valuing my time. It ended up blowing up over text when he invited me - the same afternoon - on a "date" to his house to "cook dinner together" (not cook for me! Cook together) and watch a tv show. I told him that sounded a lot like a night by myself lol. After things ended, he requested a post mortem. I met to be polite. He said he thought it ended because we were both waiting for the other person to put in the effort. I told him he was exactly right, and that I would never lead a relationship with a man, and that he had never even asked me for a committed relationship. Why would I put effort into something that didn't exist? Since then he has tried to contact me once or twice on a lonely weekend. It makes me chuckle because I'm always busy with friends when he does. Why do these men think we're just sitting around waiting for their vampire energy, pining for their attention?


What does he want us to do? Tell him to do less? Yes, do less. So less women want you.


“If they’re interested “ being the three key words.


Don’t worry. He’ll realise he’s ugly soon enough. For men: if a woman isn’t enthusiastic in talking to you, leave her alone, she’s just not that into you.


He’s likely only planning things he likes. Talking about things that interest him. He’s likely pushing a bunch of his preferences on her. He simply doesn’t listen to what she wants!


boo hoo. stop making the effort and embrace your incel life then. who cares. it’s not like nature is dying for this dude to pass his genes forward.


Then buddy should realize they’re probably not interested in him.


>For every guy like me who quickly gets tired of unreciprocated interest This is a man who wants a relationship w/o the work, who wants to rush the bonding process without giving it the time it requires, who doesn't vet, who sees women as objects you acquire through marking off a performative checklist, and who feels entitled to women's attention.


Imagine wanting something and having to do something to get it


Women contribution to a man’s life is her presence alone, which introduces risk into her life and yields great benefits to his. This has been proven by actual research.