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Significant-Minute57

Teacher here too! If you live im SW Edmonton that is the problem. Even IF class sizes were reduced, the schools don’t have the physical capacity to accommodate this. Nearly every school in every neighborhood south of the Henday (public or Catholic) is at capacity. Even Millwoods Christian school is accepting new kids in a lottery system. Libraries and staff rooms have been converted to classrooms. Portables are on a two year back order. Yes the province needs to step in, but what about the developers who build these neighborhoods? In other parts of the western world they are expected by the government to build the school before the neighborhood is established.


Puzzled-Tomorrow-375

This is soooooo true. Developers pop these new communities up all over the place and show the buyers the area for the future school and the damn thing never gets funded or built so all those new kids end up getting jammed into existing schools and it becomes a right mess. Who’s to blame I don’t know? The developers often have the land set aside but the government has to green light the project. Should the developers have to wait to build until the school is approved? Should the government get these things up faster? All I know is that we are bringing in new population by the hundreds of thousands every year and it seems f all is being done to grow our service capacity to meet the new demand. The healthcare system is blowing apart for the same reason. Too much demand not enough capacity.


dudleythecow

Yep "SW". Nothing more required to be said.


Significant-Minute57

The province isn’t off the hook. Large class sizes and minimal support has always been an issue. But, if the province finally agreed to class size caps (I do recall the NDP tried) it would be difficult for some schools to try. If they did, then your kid would be on a lottery to get in a school that they live across the field from. If they didn’t get in, then you’d be looking at a school with an hour or more bus ride.


indecisionmaker

The new communities will always have school land available, just google your neighbourhood area structure plan. The problem is that nothing will happen with that land until one of the school boards decides they want it. The board decides the area is a priority for a new school then has to secure government funding and buy it off the city. Developers aren't responsible for anything beyond getting the land to a certain level of readiness.


rah6050

You’re going to find this is pretty normal right now, unfortunately. You’re also going to be limited by catchment areas — you can’t necessarily just move your child to any school you want. As someone else mentioned, one of the easiest ways to rectify this is to move them into a second-language program: various EPSB schools offer French, Spanish, German or Mandarin immersion.


Curly-Canuck

Another alternative is the Edmonton Catholic board. That’s what we did. Smaller classes and not as restrictive for catchment areas. We aren’t Catholic, just had to sign a waiver agreeing to let our kids be taught and attend religion class. In the elementary ages that was primarily an arts and craft class to be honest and celebrations for Christmas and Easter. We supplemented at home by discussing world religions so we didn’t feel there was any particular influence. We kept with the board in junior high, better equipped computer labs and options and gym. Again we had to supplement at home with sex ed and discuss a few things that came up in their religion class to round out and balance their exposure. Overall it was well worth it though for the smaller classes and better facilities. Edmonton Catholic board is not as religious as Christian charter schools. Not by a long shot.


lynessmormont

Yeah I was an education assistant and had parents pull special needs kids from public school and put them in Christian school because the staff to student ratio is way better. A lot of my peers chose to work in christian schools because the pay and standards are better.


JebstoneBoppman

I wish that was the case when I was in Catholic Elementary school in the 90s - we routinely had 30 kids in class


ahope1985

I wonder if this varies depending on school and location because when I worked with the board from 2015-2019, I heard from many many parents and other teachers that class sizes within some catholic schools were not under 25 students (kindergarten-grade 3 mostly).


boxesofcats-

My classes in Edmonton Public elementary schools had around 30 kids as well in the 90s.


pinkstevie

I just counted from my old class pictures. My largest class in elementary (public school) was grade 4 because it was a 4/5 split. There were 22 students. Other than that, K-6 was 17-19 in every class. This was 1990-1996.


Technical_Yam2712

I'm from Grande Prairie and ya in the 90s and on in my education in the catholic school system from k-12 we always had 28-30 kids in our classes and GP was a smaller town back then


mcmanus7

Might really depend on the catholic school. The one in our area the junior high portion has 30-40 kids. Most grades have 5-6 classes.


raphlf

We have 32 in our grade 1 class in French Immersion in Edmonton Catholic. This is unfortunately becoming the norm. I have no idea why this is allowed.


viexzu

Growing population and stagnant funding from our education minister.


doodlesacker

We have an education minister? I haven’t heard nor seen her in months!!!!! All the questions directed her way seem to be answered by some lowly ucp mouthpiece.


Derkus19

That’s interesting. My wife teachers for ecs and her class average size is 31


Curly-Canuck

I’m sure many ECS schools are getting higher class sizes as more people switch. And it’s also largely dependent on area. That was the best part for me, ECS is much more accommodating of parents and kids choosing schools outside their catchment area.


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Curly-Canuck

And until they do away with a public and Catholic board, and charter schools and private schools, people might as well take advantage of your choices if they work better for your family.


KosherMitch

My wife works for Edmonton Catholic and the class sizes are massive this year. One school has 6 K classes, that’s 140ish kids….


LetsHaveARedo

Yup. French Immersion ftw.


Interview1688

No, there's Edmonton Public French Immersion too and that doesn't have anything to do with the two school districts.


Curly-Canuck

I don’t think the poster was replying to the suggestion of checking the Catholic board. They were replying to the suggestion to try French Immersion.


LetsHaveARedo

Exactly. Less kids in general in french immersion programs and classes. Also, in the same immersion language schools, sometimes the english only programs have very low class sizes. For instance our friend had their child in the english program of a school that offers German immersion. There are only 10 kids in their class in the english program since most people opt to bring their kids there for german. My kid is in french and they have 20 in the class.


Roche_a_diddle

Talk to your MLA. They are the only ones who have any power to correct this problem. *Edit: This probably won't get seen but a lot of people who responded to me have some reading to do. I'll start them off if interested: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-public-schools-facing-tough-budget-with-enrolment-inflation-outpacing-funding-1.6424211


Curly-Canuck

Unfortunately Edmonton MLAs don’t get much of a voice in this government. Be sure to cc complaints to the School Board Trustee, Superintendent and Minister of Education.


UnstuckCanuck

They’re too busy throwing money at gun owners problems to care about kids and their commie teachers and parents. Vote them out if you want a government back that funds schools and healthcare first.


bcrae8

I’m starting to count the days til next spring.


Joe_Diffy123

Tbh they don’t do fuck all. Politicians aren’t here for the constituents


TylerJ86

We had a woman running this province for four years who genuinely did work for the people of Alberta, whether or not you agree with how she tried to do that. Funny how we all voted her out and then complain that all politicians are like the one we replaced her with. Strange logic.


sgray1919

Don't say we all voted her out. Conservative supporters voted her out. Edmonton is mostly NDP.


scuff1234

This right here. This guy gets it


General-Opinion-8773

Let’s be honest, not all politicians are the same. I feel like the UCP has a fair number of really shitty ones. Edit- To be fair UCP aren’t even the worst in the grand scheme of things. Edit2- Thinking about this makes me depressed.


KingKull71

I think politicians often do their best work when they are the opposition. A decent government with a strong opposition to help keep them honest is in everyone’s interest.


General-Opinion-8773

I like a minority government, there is a better opportunity for equitable outcomes.


GWrapper

Laughs in government oversight/care, Better odds to slit your wrists lengthwise than think con's will help you contribute to society.


mountain_sheep

Teacher here! As far as I'm aware, every class is like this from elementary to grade 12. I've been a sub the last few years and been to just about every school in the district, and I've NEVER seen less than 28 kids enrolled in a regular stream Jr high or high school class. French immersion is typically smaller, as are special needs classes (which your kid can't be enrolled in without a diagnosis.) I'm teaching 35 grade 8's right now. Speak to your MLAs and stop voting for conservatives.


PinkUnicornTARDIS

Even my kid's French immersion classes have all been 26 kids from grade one on. It's just a nightmare everywhere.


XABoyd

Growing up in French immersion the class sizes were fairly large until about grade 7. Only 11 people ultimately graduated with the bilingual certificate.


Curly-Canuck

That’s because by about grade 5 it becomes obvious the ones that are falling behind on English and Math, and parents, especially if they aren’t bilingual worry about the increasing difficulty of content and science in junior high so kids switch about grade 7.


tetrapus--7243

Well, there’s only like 7 students in my grade 12 online social class, haha. But yeah, even when I was in elementary I feel like every class had around 30 kids, and I went to a French immersion school so I don’t think there’s any hope for OP here.


Sklar_Drog

Yes! I am not a teacher, but every elementary grade 1-12 class since I was born has been around 25-30 kids a class. It has never changed since.


sodarnclever

28 with a TA is actually fairly good compared to the average… (I’m not saying it’s acceptable, but it’s better than many)


Vivid-Secretary-8463

I feel like the people who are saying “when I was in school in the 90’s-2000’s we had 29 and we turned out fine” are missing the point. 1 - YOU turned out fine, what about the kids that didn’t? The ones who suddenly just fell off and no one really heard from again? 2- The expectations on teachers for the following have increased significantly: management of severe behaviours, parental communication via email/texts/calls, tracking of literacy & numeracy data, accommodations for every single student who has an IPP. You were a student with the 28-30 other students, not the teacher. I am a teacher and my mom who is still teaching have this discussion on a regular basis. The expectations placed on teachers is exponentially higher than when she started teaching in the 70s. That’s fine, but you need to then accommodate for that increase in workload either by increasing funds for more teachers or decreasing the expectations. 3 - what kid wants to be crammed into a classroom with 30-35 bodies where they are not heard or given the support they need? I was a good student so I didn’t need my teacher as much but I know I had many classmates who DID need that support. 4- We know so much about attachment, childhood development, and learning. Why are we just accepting things for how they are and giving up fighting for better conditions simply because this is how it’s always been? 5- INCLUSION CHANGES CLASSROOMS. Full stop. When done well, it works and benefits the students BUT you must have the adequate resources. Anyways, I’m sorry OP that I don’t have any solutions for you. The best I can recommend is be as involved in your child’s learning as possible. If they have Google classroom, follow up on what they’re learning when you have time and do lots of enrichment at home. The large class size doesn’t automatically mean it won’t be a good experience for your child, but the class composition might. If your child needs in-class supports that you aren’t able to do on your own , please advocate as I’m sure your child’s teacher wants to help. Wishing you and your family a successful school year!


AgentCodyDankz

I grew up with 35 kids in my class on average. That was 10 - 20 years ago.


mabeltenenbaum

I graduated in the early 2000's and we had 30+ kids from grade 4 all the way to grade 12 classes. Was small class sizes ever a thing?


analyze-it

Yeah I was in French immersion so they were combining classing in elementary to hit around the 30 mark because otherwise they were small, in the early-mid 2000s. We definitely didnt have any TAs or EAs or any of that. I don't really understand where this tiny class concept comes from


mabeltenenbaum

My schools didn't have TAs or EAs either. Quite a few student teachers in high school classes but usually the regular teacher would just zone out at their desk reading the newspaper or a book.


TheOnlySpach

Me too, and I grew up in Ontario (2000-2008 for elementary school) 30 kids per class is very very normal. Whether it should be or not is a different situation though.


HappyFloor

I did too, but these are not the same sorts of kids we grew up with. There are ***significantly*** more complexities in the classrooms of today. The pandemic massively magnified behavioural issues (with which home life is the root cause), and more families are moving here that don't speak english as a first language. The budget has not been fairly adjusted to meet the needs of those kids.


Hunnergomeow

So did I, 15-25 years ago


Curly-Canuck

Otherwise known as the Klein years. Alberta’s favorite Premier. Bought off our memories of 10 years of underfunded education with a $500 cheque.


queenofthekumquats

It must have worked really well since it was actually only a $400 cheque!


Curly-Canuck

Definitely! My memory generously added a hundred bucks.


Limbobabimbo

$400 cheque. Inflation is coming for our memories now!


nakedant123

Same here


ghostofkozi

Remember this during the next provincial election


lafrondah

Yesss! This is due to lack of funding and the push for people to move to private schools.


savannah518w

💯💯


zavtra13

Stop voting for the party(s) that wants to dismantle public education (among other things).


Eruantian_

Was literally just discussing this. 33 kids in my son's kindergarten class. Some who have special needs and no aids. There's no way kids can learn in such a chaotic environment with 1 teacher and no extra support. I'm already looking into alternatives too


SIGNANDSELFIEFRAMES

The special aid stuff is scary. Cutbacks, etc. I have 2 special needs kids in Grade 1 and one does not have an aid this year. It stresses the hell out of me. Last year, they had one aid each in their class in kindergarten.,


intospace123

Maybe our kids are in the same school. Mine also has 33 kids. They are splitting the class now to morning and afternoon but its a bit of a nightmare. They want my kid in afternoon which normally I wouldn't care but her daycare can only transport morning due to a full van. I'm not sure how to fix it short of just pulling my kid from kindergarten all together.


whoknowshank

Keep in mind parents *must* be on board for the aid stuff. My mom is an EA and there have been several parents over the last few years who refuse to get a formal diagnosis and therefore cannot have their child given an EA, as funding demands a diagnosis. This group of parents doesn’t want a diagnosis to harm their child, and therefore harms the rest of the class by making the only teacher spend more time with this difficult or behind student so that they aren’t completely behind the rest of the class. Not to say this is the case with you, but if a child is special needs an EA is likely possible if a diagnosis has been put forward and your principal isn’t an ass.


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Puzzled-Tomorrow-375

Better head to another country then this problem isn’t unique to Edmonton or Alberta. This is a problem everywhere in Canada. And it isn’t going to magically be fixed be a different government because regardless of the government in each province they are all having the same problems.


happygolucky999

What the heck? That’s so unfortunate! My son’s K class has 17. Normal suburban public school.


Curly-Canuck

You may have difficulty just picking a different school depending which board you are in. The catchment areas usually mean students in that area get priority, and then siblings of existing students. Most schools are pretty full so requests to enroll students from outside the catchment area are sometimes unfortunately denied. Some families have moved or based their home purchasing decisions around school areas.


tksolway

You can nominate one school that is not your catchment and as long as it has space your kid will be enrolled there. My daughter doesn't go to her catchment school and she's in a 21 kid class. Look for schools in the older neighbourhoods, they are usually not full. If you live in a new neighbourhood, your school WILL be overcrowded, they can't build a new school for every new neighbourhood, especially when they have underutilized ones in older areas.


Jumpin_Jay

This is not typical for the entire city. This is typical in areas that have experienced rapid growth. If you want smaller class sizes, you have to go to elementary schools in older neighbourhoods. It’s not uncommon for class sizes in the 20-25 student range. Also, because those schools often have surplus space they are able to split the classes when they reach 30 or so. The problem with the new areas is massive growth. It takes time to build schools and even placing portables takes time. Large numbers of students who were not expected show up and there is little that can be done in the short time period.


Remarkable_Peanut198

Teacher here. Just going to add just because the adults went through their education with large class sizes, does not make it okay. Our children are going to be competing for jobs on a global scale and it’s time we give them the education and skills to have a fighting chance. Getting to the kids in need is triage right now and that’s not okay. We are selling ourselves short if we don’t focus on helping these kids reach their individual potentials. Public education works. Public education raises the abilities of a society. However, it needs to be prioritized and properly funded. My colleagues are tired of supplementing their classes to fill the gap left by changes to the funding model, and they’re leaving the profession. Skilled, passionate, educators are done with being the villains. Fund education, prioritize low class sizes, and watch Alberta boom again. Also, email Lagrange and let her know your thoughts.


Neutron_mass_hole

Grovenor Elementary is a 1-6 + pre school and kindergarten school. I believe it had about 150 kids when my daughter left. Small school, located around 104 Avenue and 145 street. Great school, and teachers.


Senior-Yam-4743

Similar area, for sure less than a hundred kids in our elementary school.


Affectionate_Yam_961

I (14) have 43 in mine it’s quite a challenge, hopefully high school is better


Goodbye18000

Teacher here. 28 *is* a small class, and they even have a TA? Man, wish it was like that for me.


_voyevoda

Meanwhile back in ye olde 90s my grade 6 class was 42 kids and the teacher had to wear a mic to be heard. 😂


crystal-crawler

The answer is you are going to struggle to find a spot for your child anywhere that is lower then 25 and doesn’t have kids with high needs. If you all really want to help your schools and kids classes. Contact your kids teacher and start volunteering in class. And yes I’m an EA and some of our parents have started to do this. Even those that work. We have one parent who I would say has a demanding job and a challenging child, they take a later lunch break and do reading circles in the classroom twice a week. Another parent comes in the morning and helps other students with writing. Others come during special projects and activities. And I don’t want to go political. But things will only get worse as cuts continue and also with the new curriculum. You all think the solution is to pull your kids. If you want your kids to get a quality education, then you need to roll your sleeves up and organise. Teachers and EAs won’t be able to continue like this and we already had losses with covid. You will start seeing many more leaving the profession in the next couple of years if things continue. This will just be like Florida. And it’s by design.


Sorcerer1722

If anyone complaining voted UCP, you are the problem


KingKull71

Class sizes weren't any better under the NDP. In fact, the NDP really didn't do much in their time in power in the area of education. Schools are a big "win" for MLAs, so (regardless of party) the push politically is to build / modernize them everywhere. The problem is, the real growth pressure is actually only in a few areas. The province is a bit caught between old infrastructure in declining communities (most of rural Alberta), and high growth in new areas (SW Edmonton, NW Calgary).


backwardsplanning

Having taught under both governments, the difference in what funding I’ve had access to is astonishing. We received more fairly quickly when the NDP got in. And then when the UCP came in I lost my job in specialized programming for preschoolers because there was no money for them anymore.


Admirable_Intern6630

Very true! UCP took away multiply funding initiatives.


IzaacLUXMRKT

>the NDP really didn't do much in their time in power in the area of education. Apart from them overhauling the curriculum and promising to build 70 new schools if re-elected.


KingKull71

The curriculum overhaul has been going on since the mid-2000's with limited success, mainly due to politics (Old C, NDP, and UCP). It was an pretty long-cycle, apolitical thing before that. Every government promises to build stuff if elected/re-elected. What they actually do can be entirely different once they get in power. A note for clarity: I don't favor one party over the other.


lafrondah

I thoroughly worked with the old C/NDP curriculum. It was done well and very non partisan. It catered to age groups and to the era we are in, included new history and social issues… I am a big fan of it and very upset the UCP couldn’t look at it without a lens of hate.


KingKull71

The folks in the ministry did good work, no question about that. I think prior to the UCP it was more the general politics of government (e.g. fear of change, slowness to move, worried about optics - e.g. the pushback on the new math), but the UCP brought ideology to the table and not in a good way.


JebstoneBoppman

NDP did quite a lot to get the cogs going for the future of education, but naturally when the conservatives came back into power they just tore it all down and reverted us back to those past 4 decades of dark ages.


KingKull71

Actually, the biggest push to move the needle on education took place when Dave Hancock was minister, but that high-level direction took a long time to actually turn into meaningful change (such is the way of government). The NDP had the economy and social issues on their mind. Their most notable policy move in education was trying to limit superintendent compensation (which didn't exactly make them popular with the school districts).


Hot-Ad7369

I have 36 People In My class


hirtle24

Gotta love all the "back in my day" excuses like we aren't supposed to improve over time


dangerousily

Right like “I had 45 kids and they turned out fine” no they didn’t you just didn’t meet their needs or care to


Dull_Sundae9710

I went elementary school in edmonton 25-30 years ago and we always had around 30 kids in my classes. The teacher was on their own as well, no TAs. Seems to be par for the course.


squatlow17

Welcome to the city. Its normal.


IzaacLUXMRKT

On this Episode of *Urban Sprawl and it's Negative Impacts*


Arpyr

Urban sprawl sucks but I don't see what this has to do with it. It's a capacity issue. We need more schools. edit: wording


mchllnlms780

You mean “we need more schools in the suburbs”. Families moved away from the central / established areas to the sprawl, causing schools that were under-capacity to close due to low enrollment.


Arpyr

Really? What were the schools that closed down?


PopularArgument

Just from near me within the past \~15 years: Capilano, Fulton, Mount Royal, Montrose, Newton, High Park, RJ Scott, Lawton, Rundle...


Arpyr

Damn!


IzaacLUXMRKT

Well, Urban Sprawl is actually a massive contributor to large class sizes in Edmonton specifically, they've done a number of reports on it. Can't speak for this school in particular as it wasn't referenced, but you could assume there is impact to some degree for sure.


Arpyr

How though? If the city was more densely populated that wouldn't change the fact that there are too many kids for the amount of schools we have.


incidental77

Some schools in older neighborhoods are closing due to having so few children they are highly inefficient or are being used for a wide variety of specialized programming trying to pull in more students beyond the local neighbouring kids. Yet the outskirts (where young families go to afford homes) are overwhelmed with a growing population of school aged children and new schools take years to get funding and build and are full on day 1. Constant urban sprawl means constantly building new schools and under maintaining or closing underused existing ones nearer to the core as the young population moves outwards constantly. Quite wasteful for educational $ over time


IzaacLUXMRKT

[https://sos-alberta-app-dev.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/433074069-class-sizes-in-alberta.pdf](https://sos-alberta-app-dev.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/433074069-class-sizes-in-alberta.pdf) Have a read of page 14


Arpyr

Thank you for the link


Curly-Canuck

Some of the schools in downtown and older neighborhoods have fewer students. So I can see the commenters point. I believe a couple were even closed or repurposed because they didn’t have enough students. Few parents would want to drive or bus elementary age kids across town though. Meanwhile they waited years to build more schools in the new neighborhoods.


ed_in_Edmonton

Yes and no. True that they have fewer students but then they tend to merge two grades together (eg grade 2/3 class) so still quite a lot of students per class. School may be well under capacity but still have large class sizes.


Curly-Canuck

True. Class sizes can be similarly large because of the split classes. I was referring to the buildings, I think the comments I was responding too were as well. The issue isn’t just the need for more schools, it’s more schools in the suburbs. There is lots of space in some schools, too much, for the enrolment numbers.


Arpyr

That makes sense I guess. I didn't think there would be that many kids lacking in those areas.


Curly-Canuck

In Bonnydoon some schools were merged, then the buildings rented out for charter schools. Avonmore turned half the building into Metro continuing education a while ago. There have been others as well. St. Basils is scheduled to close at the end of this year I believe.


sheldonOrange

Moreso funding for education not keeping up with population growth


IzaacLUXMRKT

Yeah, you can also chalk it down to the UCP also not giving a single shit about Education. Population growth? Not really, as shown in the link I provided many central schools are underpopulated (hence the closure of some)


Joe_Diffy123

It’s the same for every province including , get this, not ones ran by the ucp


IzaacLUXMRKT

Firstly, there are provinces where this isn't as much of an issue at all, like Nova Scotia. Secondly, The UCP is only in Alberta. Lastly, half your comments are "It's not just the UCP this is a problem everywhere!" I spot a UCP supporter! So, I'll ask, why would you ever click on a thread about Education in the first place? Certainly wouldn't align with your values.


meggali

Throw in a long history of a conservative government in power...


Kikie3

From kindergarten to grade 12 I always had 30 kids in my classes growing up. I thought that was normal.


Few-Ear-1326

Did you research this existing issue before having kids?


its_coo_baby

Stop voting conservative. That’s the biggest issue.


Admirable_Intern6630

The UCP removed the class composition funding. Meaning, if a class had over 24 students, they would receive funding to hire an Educational Assistant. Contact your MLA, CC: the education minister, ATA, news agencies, and opposition education critic. I worked in education, and difference between NDP public education system and UCP public education system is immense.


WickedDeviled

There are literally no EAs anywhere now. You are basically screwed as a special needs parent if you want your child to be in an inclusive environment and have any kind of help. it's incredible how quickly UCP has taken it apart. Bunch of assholes.


SeveralOcelot8430

when i was in grade 6 in 1999 there was 45 kids in mt split 5/6 class with NO EA's or extra help.


Joe_Diffy123

I remember I was I. Split classes in grade 2, 3 and 4. Are they still a thing ?


TikiTikiGirl

Yes, split classes are still a thing at many schools.


Roborat1st

I went to school in the sixties and seventies. Usually around 35 kids per class, this was normal.


Morzana

Try 30+ no TA


remberly

To be clear there is only one way to seriously solve this issue and it 100% about whonyiu vote for. They try to weaken the outline health system. They will do the same to education. And the thing is it's a HUUUUGE issues in all our schools.


bdc604

lol, mine is at 300% capacity. somehow when the city permitting office approves development of hundreds of townhouses, they don’t think any parents will be moving into the neighbourhood. i guess townhouses r for seniors and college kids?


JDD-Reddit

You can find some pretty interesting Excel files to play with here: https://www.alberta.ca/student-population-statistics.aspx - Unfortunately the data is only up to the 21-22 school year and won’t tell you precisely what the class size numbers are (probably have to call the school for that). I’m no expert, but if I’m filtering and sorting correctly, I think Rideau Park, Keheewin, Steinhauer, and Westbrook all had pretty low ECS (Kindergarten) registration last year, so presumably that should transfer into reasonably small Grade 1 classes this year. As a bonus, Rideau Park also has German bilingual, so that number (39) would be split among two grade one classes. Sweet grass is relatively SW and has Spanish bilingual (62 in ECS last year) and both Greenfield (75) and Richard Secord (96) have French Immersion, so they might be worth checking out as well. Sorry, I only took a look at Public schools since that’s what I’m more familiar with and my computer doesn’t seem to want to connect to the ECSD website tonight for some reason. Cheers!


freeeagent

I don't think that it's really anything new. I graduated in 1999 and that was the size of my classes all throughout school. I'm not saying that's a good thing though.


ShaneB83

When I was a kid, all my classes had about 30 students in each but it was a catholic school. Only difference was, we never had a bunch of little disrespectful assholes for students and if we did, well the teachers would deal with you accordingly. I was born In the 80's.


SurlyMoose

Honestly, I keep hearing about over crowding in the classroom with sizes being from 28 - 32. Putting on my old lady yells at clouds glasses, this is exactly the same size when I was growing up, without the benefit of a TA. We’ve been having the same conversation since 1980. My theory is that it isn’t class sizes being the problem. Again, old lady here, but wouldn’t it be a better experience with more TAs? This would get kids more individual attention when required.


Gargoyle_princess

That's pretty normal? Most of my classes all my life have been 26-34 kids


dylan780403

28 seems pretty normal? Maybe edmonton used to be dofferent but i grew up in stony plain and 25 student classes was super normal.was edmonton class dizes smaller theough the early to mid 2000s?


BlueLonk

28 kids aounds completely standard to me. I was never in a class with less than 25 students.


biishies

Blows my mind this is still happening, 10-15 years ago when I was in elementary my classes were 18-24 students and people were raising concerns about how large the class sizes are & how parents have to buy supplies like kleenex etc that teachers should be able to buy AND be compensated for. Our government doesn’t care about the future of our province, just how much oil they can find.


Chimommy69

I consistently had 25+ kids in my class my entire K-12 experience. I remember having 30-something in my grade three class, that was in like 1999. Not to sound like a boomer but everyone made out just fine, I don’t understand the issue.


JebstoneBoppman

that's the thing, we didn't really make it out fine. In the grand scheme of things our education ultimately suffered for our entire school career, we're just too ignorant to realize this because this has been the norm in Alberta for so long.


simby7

What’s not fine? Most people finished high school and went onto post secondary and careers. How was your education ruined?


Chimommy69

Yeah I don’t get this, I personally feel I was given an adequate and quality education and was able to move on to post secondary and then into a career successfully. I get that others with different needs may struggle but everyone I grew up with who needed extra help got it, whether in the form of aides or modified curriculum.


ChouettePants

let me guess, you didn't grow with a physical disability or a learning disability, or needed additional supports with speech therapy etc. Those are the kids that need a bit more help. Unless it is suggested that let's put all those kids in separate classes.


Chimommy69

Everyone I grew up with who had a disability or extra needs had an aid assigned to them for one on one support. Also, OP didn’t say their child had any special needs.


WickedDeviled

No way you are getting an aid now.


soundmagnet

Not all kids can handle a class that size and get lost in the system. Especially kids with learning disabilities. Some kids need lots of 1 on 1 time. Hell when I went to NAIT, the only reason I passed was from getting extra help from the teacher after hours.


Generallybadadvice

That's quite typical for the entire city. Although, a friend of mine works at Joey Moss which just opened this year. Classes are similar in size to that right now, but they're growing and there's a good chance they'll hire more staff mid year and split classes mid year, so the classes may be more reasonably sized at least for a year or 2.


omegatrox

My student teaching practicum was in a class of 36 in grade 6. You physically couldn’t walk around the whole classroom with everyone seated and the desks inside rows were basically inaccessible. The school also had multiple portables. It pains me when old schools are closed. Parents should have the option to send children to less dense schools and the transportation should be arranged. But let’s keep spending on new super schools that don’t increase teacher to student ratios. Nothing wrong with adding these schools to accommodate population, but then we need to hire more teachers. I digress.


Holrober

That's pretty average from my experience, 25-35 from K-12.


shinymagpiethings

This is an Alberta problem. Here's a couple excerpts from [a 2008 Q&A on the ATA's website](https://legacy.teachers.ab.ca/News%20Room/ata%20news/Volume%2043/Number%202/Pages/QA%2043-2.aspx): "Question: I’ve got 28 students in my Grade 2 class. What happened to the Class Size Initiative? Answer: Full implementation of the Class Size Initiative continues to be a priority for the Association, and, we are told, for the government. Unfortunately, only a few school jurisdictions have fully complied with the class size limits established under the initiative. The initiative emerged from the recommendations of Alberta’s Commission on Learning (2003), which, in turn, were a response to the widespread concerns expressed by teachers and parents about the province’s class sizes. At the time, Alberta’s class sizes were the largest in the county. The Commission recommended that in each school jurisdiction the maximum average class size should be restricted to17 students in Grades 1–3; 23 students in Grades 4–6; 25 in Grades 7–9; and 27 in Grades 10–12. ... It is the province’s responsibility to ensure that school boards adhere to the specified average class size requirements. Class size data for each of Alberta’s school jurisdictions is available on the Alberta Education website ([www.education.alberta.ca](https://www.education.alberta.ca))." [Here's a timeline on the issue from The Edmonton Journal.](https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/timeline-the-politics-of-class-sizes-in-alberta) The article is from 2018 but it's pretty illuminating. [Last spring, teachers agreed to a pretty insulting collective agreement from the government for the next four years.](https://globalnews.ca/news/8912060/alberta-teachers-contract-vote-four-years-province-schools/) Out last contract ended in 2018--it took that long to get through negotiations and mediation. One of the biggest problems was that the government wouldn't even discuss classroom sizes. The new collective agreement fixed *none* of the problems affecting the quality of education in our province. (The "best" part of the deal was a salary increase of about 4% (our last increase was a 2% bump in 2015), which barely takes the edge off of inflation.) I think the only reasons we didn't go on strike were that A) we're exhausted and B) we have so little faith in the current government that it seemed very possible Kenney would just pull the plug on public education and make every mother quit her job to homeschool her kids. Parents, please, please call your MLA and call your school board. Teachers have no teeth in Alberta politics.


[deleted]

This seems like a normal number of students to me.


DDButtercup

Not much you can do unless you have the ability to drive to a different school a lot further away. All the schools are maxed out. By the time a new school is built it’s over capacity. And they aren’t funded well enough to hire more teachers


WildcardKH

Elementary schools aren’t the only ones. As a teacher, my classes are all over 30. One class at my school has 40+.


RikNasty2Point0

I had 26-30 in every class in elementary


Routine_Ease_9171

There was a minimum of 30 kids in every school class I was in🤣


ProxiC3

It would be tough to find - the fact that your child's class has an EA is lucky in and of itself. Class size targets for Alberta schools used to be 17 students in K-3. Unfortunately, in 2019, the government stopped requiring information about class sizes. So now no one is "policing" the fact that most classes are insanely huge. Your best bet is to contact your MLA and your local trustee.


TraditionalCourage

Remember this next time you vote (this is due to UCP)


Smith94Oilers

That is the new normal now. I doubt you could find another school with less than 28 kids in each class


dioor

Honestly it’s a bit wild to hear that 28 kids is too many, I’m a millennial and didn’t grow up here but was always in classes of 30 or so kids from what I remember. We didn’t know any different and in terms of how my peers and I turned out… well, I mean, I think having 5 too many kids in our elementary classes was the least of our worries.


TraditionalCourage

Remember this next time you vote (this is due to UCP)


crashtestrestaurants

I grew up in the 90's classes were always 28 to 32


MahjongDentist

In my entire time at school from the 90s and 00s, I never once had a class below 30 and never had a TA, 28 sounds cozy honestly


[deleted]

They are ALL overcrowded this year. You’d be hard pressed to not find an overcrowded classroom under this current government.


No_Bag_6642

28? That’s normal lol


Iliketomeow85

Chuck em in French immersion, class sizes are usually smaller, teachers are better too imo


PinkUnicornTARDIS

My kid's French immersion classes have all been minimum 26 kids from grade one on. It's no better, alas.


pianoandpapers

FI teacher here, our small school consistently has ~27 kindergarteners in each group every year. This year we have 33 6th graders and 29 5th graders with no EA. Massive emotional and behavior issues, a counsellor who is only there 1.5 days a week, and tons of kids in all grades (especially upper elementary) are testing below grade level for literacy & numeracy. The government and pandemic have successfully murdered public education


wanttowritemore

I grew up and went to school in Canada, BC and Alberta, big cities and small towns. I regularly had over 30 kids and TAs weren't a thing. I'm an older millennial. We also went to school 40 days a year more than my kids go. Why do we need higher teacher to student ratios and more TAs than we had then? Why do we have so many fewer instructional days? I'd rather see year round school as it's an integral part of child care for many working parents.


ProxiC3

Just wanted to respond to a couple of your comments: *"I regularly had over 30 kids and TAs weren't a thing."* At that time, inclusion policies were limited. Students with low cognitive functioning, learning disabilities, and neurodivergence would be placed in special ed classrooms for all or part of the day. That isn't the case anymore. ​ *"Why do we have so many fewer instructional days?"* Since I don't know your exact age, it is difficult to determine how many instructional days were expected when you were in school. This is set by the School Act in Alberta and it really hasn't changed as much over time. *"I'd rather see year-round school as it's an integral part of child care for many working parents."* There are year-round schools in Edmonton, but only a few. They have tried to expand it so more schools are on that calendar but families generally vote it out.


aph1

They have classes of 60 in Asia, and they always score higher.


averageidol

Curriculum there is harder and more intensive too 🤣 I seriously don't understand the shock and dismay


[deleted]

[удалено]


Advanced_Stuff_241

this is normal - i’m 37 and this was normal in school even for me


UnrequitedRespect

Had like 31-33 kids in each class from 90-99’ then most people started dropping out of high school…students perspective btw, growing up i thought “overcrowded” was the class what had 37 kids


Furcastles

Yup. UCP lowered funding for teachers. It’s what you should expect from conservatives.


R-Dub893

Just wanting to point out that this is pretty standard neoliberal strategy. Defund and disable a public service to the point that it no longer functions, wait for the public to be desperate for a solution, and then claim that only the private sector can alleviate the problem. It’s how to privatize services when the public doesn’t really want it.


jiebyjiebs

This year I have bigger classes than I've ever had in my career. Smallest is 26 and biggest is 31 - Junior High. I think I'm actually sitting pretty good right now in comparison to a lot of teachers, but I'd say it's even too much where I'm at.


Mindless-Throat

My kids attend a school in a community roughly 45 minutes outside of Edmonton and have for going on ten years. Class sizes have been anywhere from 20-30 with a teacher and a TA.


SeveralOcelot8430

Yup! My daughter was in a 4/5 slit last year.


RedditAuthor987

Welcome to Edmonton. Unfortunately, that is normal.


Typo_Cat

LOL, it's been many years since I was in elementary school and my class sizes were 30-34. This has always been a problem in Edmonton, let alone North America in general. Shit out of luck unfortunately. You're lucky your kid actually has a TA though... the extra help wasn't really common growing up.


Hafrunt

I work in a rural division and the expected class size, in my division, for elementary grades is 28. The fact that your child is in a class of 28 in the city is surprising to me (I'm even more amazed that the class has even a dedicated part-time TA). I would be expecting low to mid 30s in those classes. Your child's teacher is 100% correct though. Class sizes where they are (province wide) is detrimental to students. As other posters mentioned, this is something that must be brought up with your MLA. In general moving to a different school with a lower student population won't change expected class sizes as teacher allocation is based on enrollment numbers. So if a school has fewer students then they will receive less funding resulting in fewer teaching staff.


dombatoe

I’ve always had about 28 students in my class from as far back as I can remember all the way to grade 12 and I’ve been to about 5 different schools in multiple countries. It’s pretty normal


physicist88

Large classes are the norm all across EPSB in all divisions. I teach high school and all my classes save one are 35+. Four years ago I had a Physics 20 with 43 students which seemed like an anomaly but I’m sure that will be the norm soon enough. It’s a growing district.


triptoutsounds

That’s a pretty normal class size unless your in a small town.


Heistbreaker

There's not gonna be much point. Maybe private schools but all schools are just getting fuller and fuller since no government wants to actually support teachers or doctors for that matter


Almost_A_Pear

28 in a class is totally normal. I've had classes with well over 35


Snackatttack

I remember we had high 20's low 30's when i went to elementary in the late 90s / early 00's


baebre

Lmao 28 😂 there are 35+ in most Ontario classes.


Altruistic_Ad466

I could be out of touch as I don’t have kids but in my elementary school (in the 80s) we always had 25-30 kids in a class and no TA. I always assumed whenever I’d heard about larger class sizes, we were talking about 35-40 (which sounds like a horrible situation)


AdministrativePast17

Wait is 28 a large class to you? In my elementary in Sask it was normal to have 40-50 kids per class.


theyellowsaint

It’s the same throughout both divisions. Enrolment is over initial projection and the province will not give extra funding, so schools cannot hire more teachers to keep class sizes small. I teach junior high and we have class sizes close to 40 with classrooms equipped for 30 or less. Students are practically sitting on top of each other and there aren’t enough resources to go around.


drojaking

I had 32 minimum in all my classes back in 90s-00s sound that sounds pretty normal to me. More friends for the kid.


puckfuppett

Relax, I had 32 kinds in my class with no TA. It's going to be ok.


CurrentlyUnable

28 is too busy for you??? That’s normal for Vancouver


genericusername742

28 kids is a lot for a class? Huh. TIL. That's about how much I had in class going through grade school.


Green-Outside9301

That’s the class size I had when I was in school. Should be fine.


Boring-Jicama

My entire life I went to school with a class of 30-31 kids. I still finished university with a 97% GPA. Don’t really see a huge issue.