SEC may approve a Bitcoin ETF by the end of October, says Bloomberg
By - thefoodboylover
If its not a spot based one does it even matter.
Yeah. There are already BTC futures. Some people are clearly not thinking about the implications of the article. Edited: for clarity.
You need to learn how these financial instruments work. Btc Futures actually requires the purchase of spot BTC to work properly. Derivatives aren't just built on nothing.
>Futures actually requires the purchase of spot BTC
... in the future. And if you don't buy it, you roll it into another futures contract. Not the same as physically buying BTC
So you figure the market maker is just massively short BTC so you can have your synthetic long? You think they are going to pay out the massive long BTC profits from their own pockets?
No. The market maker hedges your long (which they are short) with a spot position scaled by delta (for options) theta, contango, bla bla bla.
the market maker is "net neutral" and has contractually agreed to stay in the market with an active bid and ask at all times. this creates liquidity and efficiency in the markets.
Net neutral, tell JPM with silver futures. Lmfao, they will take systematic short positions unhedged and ask for bailout if manipulation goes south in case they can not sustain downward pressure. Dont be naive.
Well, and also COMEX futures have a cash settlement option. So JPM doesn't have to deliver silver; they can just deliver dollars.
in theory. and yet gold price is so shit why?
Because it underperforms compared to everything and is hard to move and easy to steal and has nothing fun attached to it?
And young people generally don't care about it, unlike boomer dads.
Gold has value only becuase at one time people said this rock is cool, and has value, and is somewhat scaremce until more is found. Now people have moved on to something better.
Gold is an excellent material for electrical mating contacts, as it has pretty good conductivity, it never oxidizes, and it doesn't flake when scratched. Anything that is useful and scarce will have value.
you are the typical clown that smells a conspiracy because he's too ignorant to do his homework.
in any case: look at its already massive marketcap and it's collapsing demand.
also, golds supply 'inflation' is higher than that of bitcoin! that's a lot of money needed just to sustain the price.
all these mining companies? they pollute and cashout to the detriment of gold holders. sounds familiar?
wtf does gold price have to do with market making? Are people truly too stupid to understand such a very simple concept?
I mean I would say is there anyone on the planet... but obviously yea, stupid knows no bounds and cannot only be contained except by sudden body temperature reduction.
damn you are angry. perhaps try counselling
reeee intelligent life must be mentally ill reeeeeeeeeee
Explain stuff, don't just tell us you're intelligent.
General consensus is that paper bitcoins, like paper gold, will just be used by the fiat masters to control the price. While a physically settled bitcoin will require actual possession and therefore less fuckery.
So "general consensus" just ignores 100 years of experience and knowledge of derivative trading in commodities that physically exist?
I mean, I'm not really that intelligent, but even I can go learn about commodities trading and how the futures can't get but so far ahead or behind the spot and stay that way for long because well physical ownership arbitrage.
And even though BTC (like SPX and unlike corn or oil or silver or gold) doesn't require any actual physical storage to own substantial quantities, it still arbitrages out to the spot... and without physical transportation and storage costs, it does so even quicker than oil or corn.
But again, I am not the one to teach this. But the information is out there. All you (or OP) have to to do is remove your head from the sweet smell of your own ass and actually bother to learn (rather than think you know something).
Thank you for being one of the few that has any clue about how this works. So many crypto kiddies have no fucking clue about how finance works.
Not in the future. Futures platforms are required to buy a certain % of the coins they will have to pay off. This is called their "gamma"
So what's the reason SEC is not approving a spot base BTC ETF?
i think its because physically settled seems like less of a security and more like a commodity.
That and the SEC feels like they need to protect banks as long as they can.
The BTC futures on the CME are cash settled, not btc based.
No need to purchase spot.
You have no idea how things like options work and it shows. You need to buy spot BTC to offset risk when offering options for example. Now remove your downvote like a good boy.
They will not offset the risk. Look at Citadel with GameStop. They dont hedge risk nor do they take delta neutral positions. If things go south with their manipulation they change the rules, take the risk off shore and ask for bailout. Their mission is to prevent global adoption of bitcoin, not facilitate it, hence they will systematically put downward pressure on it.
Yes, they will. Where are you getting these ideas from mate? Hedge funds are not banks.
Imagine you can use a derivative market to place a 100 billion bet on the price on X date. Now, if the market is spot based - buys make the price of the asset go up, sells make it go down. Harder to manipulate. Now if the market is derivative based - you buy in, price of the asset doesn't go up because none of the actual asset was purchased, now say the bet goes bad. The expiry date is coming up - say it'll cost you a billion to dump enough at once to cause a spot market panic and drop (you sell at a loss, and don't get your position fully rebought before the panic is over), that's STILL profitable because you were able to make a 100 billion dollar bet over there on the derivative side. Now, before you go 'nah, manipulation doesn't happen' - why NOT just have spot market ETFs then? If derivatives don't offer any benefit, and everybody wants spot market ones, why insist the ETF be a derivative based one?
Ask Citadel about meme stocks.
Bitcoin ETF is turning out to be the graphene of the crytpo world.
Wow. I haven’t though about graphene in years. I was so excited about the possibilities when it was first discovered.
Tell me about this graphine you speak about.
It’s truly the material of the future, and apparently will forever remain so.
Basically a 2D sheet of carbon atoms that's 1 atom thick.
It has insane thermal properties along that 2d plane, as well as the best electrical conductivity in any material so far. It was discovered in 2004 and nothing notable has come from it consumer-wise other than news articles of how cool it is
Its time will come. I believe Corning Inc. created the material used for phone screens in like the 70s or so, but there was no use case. Then along came Apple's iPhone
Super light, super strong carbon nanotubes. I think. It’s been a while since I heard about it. Discovered by accident.
Saw a video about this the other day. Turns out the main hurdle was mass production, which they have somewhat solved. So now you're seeing use cases like stronger concrete.
Graphene, asteroid mining and vacuum trains...
Yeah, I mean, if you asked me before I read this I would have said it's already been approved many times.
Such a good call. Graphene pulled a full Houdini on us
Graphene oxide is used pretty regilarly
Spot or nothing. ETF based on derivatives will let them create fake bitcoin and put a stranglehold on our necks much like it happened with gold
Can't believe people fall for this fake, paper, derivative bs.
NOW bitcoin is safe and good. But you can only trade it when grandpa is awake from 9-5 (NY time) on weekdays but not holidays and hold it in the accounts we approve or face the consequences.
Gold has a high cost to take control and store.
How much it cost to take coins off exchange and store them. A hell of a lot easier than gold. If people keep buying spot, futures will follow.
Expect restrictions on Spot exchanges so that they can choke the buy side.
It says a lot that Gensler is specifically demanding futures. I think he wants to use the ETF as a vehicle to suppress Bitcoin's market price similar to precious metals.
Great. Then the banks can manipulate the price like they do gold.
> Bitcoin ETF
Wow, are we in 2013 again?
If this was the period right before the second big upswing (like in 2013) you would be seeing “China bans Bitcoin” just like they did in 2013 right before the big run up then.
It’ll be futures not spot, and for a very specific reason.
Fraud? Deception? Hokey-pokey?
Stay away from it, this is a trap for institutional money and fed to try and steal away Bitcoin Power
Preach. Fuck their legacy shit.
Can you explain your thought process?
They put downward pressure without buying real bitcoin, people panic sell, they buy the real bitcoin, rinse and repeat, you controlthe price like gold and silver
That's why you buy physical gold and silver, same for putting your BTC in your own cold wallet.
When the paper scam for gold and silver finally comes to a stop, the most valuable assets will be BTC, gold and silver
Paper scam will never stop that is the problem.
Maybe not. But I wouldn't want to be on the short side of that scam. Holding a modest amount of physical gold and silver is a worth a speculative play.
I agree ;)
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No one cares
It's better,we just buy bitcoin and later transfer it to our wallet.
Hot take: China can't ban Bitcoin and the SEC doesn't need to approve it.
Note: I realize this is about ETFs not Bitcoin at-large. My argument is that we shouldn't be looking for approval or screw by disapproval of any government. If government (like El Salvador) makes it easier for main street users to use then great but the whole is to not be beholden to any one government.
Individuals should buy actual Bitcoins, then send them to their own wallets.
Yea let me just do that with my vanguard Roth... o wait....
It's not hard for me to imagine the politician's in Washington DC being told by their masters that they "need" to confiscate Bitcoins (to "save the economy" or to "fight terrorism" or "so no child gets left behind"... they'll have some stupid, fucked up excuse.
They probably won't announce the confiscation ahead of time, but even if they do, Coinbase's site will crash, like has so many times in the past.
The government agents will tell the Coinbase people, in effect, hand it all over or sit in jail, and Coinbase (along with other exchanges) will gladly hand over your Bitcoins in order to keep their own butts out of jail.
Put your bitcoin in a wallet. Don't leave it on an exchange.
Most people aren't that intelligent.
I bet you’re fun at parties
It will be fun for me to watch your custodial Bitcoins get confiscated -- because you were warned about it.
The goverment being that heavy handed about a free global financial instrument would not be taken well by the people. Global fortune 500 companies headquartered in your country are hodling it. Wall street banks hold it. That’s politically not a good look.
Well...I mean, rich people (that you would have expected to be the most politically connected), and companies were the primary holders of large quantities of gold back in the day, they still declared one night that they were confiscating it from everybody, and ordered banks to turn over their client's holdings. If you've never read about that particular piece of history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive\_Order\_6102
Truth. It's a fair point. There is clearly precedent for such an event. It begs the question "Why would this be any different?". With the gold ban in the 1900s holders were issued bank notes for their holdings. I suppose if compensation for bitcoin was offered by the government people would be more likely to comply, but the tone of the post I replied to didn't suggest a deal was on the table. I still hold the position that the state trying to censor the censorship resistant and stateless money would have explosive consequences in the west.
you are welcome
Older less tech savvy clients who don’t want the hassle will be able to buy into this ETF which is required to hold the actual coins. My father was asking me about bitcoin earlier this year and he would much sooner buy into this than actual coins. With mass adoption comes products such as this and it isn’t a bad thing some people aren’t into it for the freedom or the middle finger to governments or banks but strictly for profit.
> My father was asking me about bitcoin earlier this year and he would much sooner buy into this than actual coins.
Which is a huge problem. If your dad were to buy actual bitcoins, then the shift in supply&demand will cause the price to shift up every so slightly. This is appropriate, because if one more person is into bitcoin, then the actual value of bitcoin has gone up.
If your dad buys these fake bitcoins, then his interest is not reflected in the price. Instead, by buying counterfeit bitcoins, he is basically allowing criminals to inflate away bitcoin's value.
If someone issues fake bitcoins they effectively short bitcoin. They can't prevent people from buying real btc elsewhere and driving up the price so eventually they will have to close their short at a loss.
If it’s a true etf the holding company needs to hold the actual commodity ie bitcoin. It works the same.
Except that this ETF won't hold actual bitcoins. It will hold derivatives.
Not their keys, not their Bitcoins. You seem to want people to have their life savings confiscated, just because YOU thought they were too dumb and lazy.
Thats pretty clearly not what he’s saying, why are you trying to be a contrarian?
Yes they should but not everyone can/has the desire to have their own wallet. Both things are true.
A person who is that "out of it" has no business investing in anything at all.
You go out of your way to be rude to so many people. I generally like your posts, but far too often, you're just unkind on purpose.
No. You're rude.
Lol, that's like a kindergarten response.
Nuh uh, you...
Okay man, you win. Have a good night.
Once regulation happens (and it will) you think really think a publicly traded exchange isn’t going to be on the up and up? It’s not their coins in the first place it’s merely an investment fund for profit or loss. Also what boomer is putting their life savings into bitcoin. Stop being dense about the reality of financial markets. I’m all for owning your own coin which I do but let’s not be naive about the future of this technology for segments of the market.
I know better than to trust "government regulation". You should too, but you don't.
Here: Check out all the nifty "government regulation" going on:
You can speed it up, so it won't take so long.
After this, you have no excuse to ever trust "government regulation".
I’m not going to keep arguing bc your post history tells me you have nothing better to do. Have a nice day but go to bed knowing you’re wrong.
You don't want to know the truth.
I put the truth right in front of your nose, but you turned away.
You are a coward.
People are allowed to be only interested in the NGU technology. You can just be in for the profits and not be concerned about decentralisation and self custody.
People are "allowed" to do something foolish. Big deal
Individuals should buy actual Bitcoins, then send them to their own wallets.
*Not your keys, not your Bitcoins*.
Individuals should do as they please. Enough spamming
Somebody else is spamming ETFs. I'm here to help people.
tldr; The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) could approve the first Bitcoin-based exchange-traded fund (ETF) by the end of October, Bloomberg's Mike McGlone has said. He anticipates that by 2021 we could see a Bitcoin at $100,000, which is already considered as a perfectly viable alternative to gold. This event would be precisely this event that could take Bitcoin to new all-time highs.
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
Lol I honestly think China separating itself from crypto is helping this along.
They really want more people to buy in before they dump/sell… just do the opposite of what these news outlets say.
Don’t they say this every month?
Just see the October contracts someone knows insider info.
Having approval doesn't mean you get to launch the ETF right away.
The clock starts ticking once approval is received but not an immediate launch.
I will be surprised if we see a live ETF this year.
This should be about as fun as when cboe and cme introduced futures in December 2017
Bitcoin can't be manipulated!!!!!!
Hold my beer......
Won’t happen lmao
October, 2040, probably.
All it means is that coinjoined bitcoin will be priced at a premium to bitcoin that hasn't been "mixed" in the future.
People SAY that is a criminal thing to do for the most part. But it's really just exercising a right to financial privacy. Fungibility. They miss the overall point.
And this will continue for awhile.
The slightly uplifting thing is that we celebrate this. But the real question is why are we still asking for permission?
My reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzfX9DUzwGg
The US Securities and Exchange Commission could greenlight a Bitcoin futures ETF as early as October this year,as I heard.
This type of news almost always end up as a sell the news event. Oh well.
Well haven't there been 25 applications so far ? None approved?
Then its already approved behind the scene
It really isn't relevant whether SEC approves a Bitcoin ETF or not. It really won't affect the adoption of Bitcoin, which is following the same adoption schedule that the internet followed.
How is this different than what Grayscale already has? What is grayscale if not an ETF?
What if some less than perfect procedures occur and hackers copy the private keys?
How rapidly the graph would fall even compared to a sell off.
Until it is officially launched, I won't believe it...
Does the China ban also cover crypto ETFs, or just trading the actual asset?
When I bought bitcoin ETF when I first came out they were so many warnings from the bank saying not to invest in it. I hope it blows up, it’ll be a nice treat
If it's futures, it could cause people who would have bought into the limited supply of bitcoin to buy a derivative instead, starving the liquidity.