Yeah, I’m going to go the opposite of what you’ve said here. As a heavy Sadist, I *need* a heavy masochist to be able to play in some of the ways I like to play. As much as I like to see them cry and beg and scream, if they don’t like that, then I’m actually harming them. The only consensual way to play with heavy pain is with a heavy masochist…so that’s what I want to have.
I need to agree with you. It's hard to imagine hard play without a masochist.
I absolutely agree. I have lots of fun with a heavy masochist.
As a heavy sadist, if your partner doesn’t feel good, do you feel sick inside?
Yeah, it would mess me up a lot to know I was hurting someone and they are having a bad time. It would feel like I was assaulting them and would be hard to recover from.
It’s always complicated, because for some people “not feeling good” makes them feel good. That’s what I mean about needing a heavy masochist, because they want that “bad” sensation as much as I want to give it to them. If my partner wasn’t being fulfilled by our play, I would be bummed out…and if my partner felt that they had been actually harmed by our play, I would be absolutely destroyed. That’s one of the reasons that a big part of the aftercare I ask for is for my partner to tell me that they’re okay, that they enjoyed it, that I’m not a bad person. I need that affirmation to know that I didn’t cause actual harm.
I’m both and it’s super hard to do Sadist stuff to people who aren’t masochist. Ideally I want a heavy masochist because I’m a heavy Sadist. I want someone to enjoy the hurt (I enjoy the hurt as a masochist, it’s not something I avoid).
If I’m playing with someone who isn’t a masochist I don’t get to do much stuff I like. Same if I’m bottoming as a masochist and my Top isn’t a Sadist- they won’t hurt me like I like.
I refuse to do pain play with someone who isn’t into pain play- why would I want to? If I just wanted to hurt someone who isn’t into pain then that’s something entirely different and not good in my opinion- possibly dangerous.
I also don’t do lots of SSC stuff, I am always consensual (enthusiastically so) but I am fine with things not necessarily being sane/safe. I strive to be as safe as possible, I never want to hurt someone in a bad way.
Abuse isnt consensual and I don’t think it’s a fine line, personally.
I never hurt someone as a punishment (partly because I’m not a Domme and have no reason to punish a play partner- I’m not their boss, I’m just a Sadistic Top). Pain is pleasure, it’s a gift to someone who loves it. I hurt other masochists because I know how delicious it is and I want them to love it as much as I love giving it. Any hint of it not being fun and I’ll never do it or ask again.
Edit: I’m not a Domme. Outside of D/s I’m a Sadomasochist and am Vers (:
So not all pain play is punishment and not all dynamics include punishment. So not wanting to punish a masochist with pain really isn’t relevant to the rest of your question. In general, I have found the opposite to be true. Sadists want to be with a masochist. Because sadists, while they like inflicting pain, aren’t evil people. They want things to be consensual and for their partner to get something out of it as well.
The point of punishment is just an analogy.
I don't think you're right that a main reason for sadists to enjoy causing pain, is that their partner is making a sacrifice to show devotion to the sadist's pleasure. I think that might be part of it, for some people, but I really don't think you're correct that that's, like, the *main* reason.
Anyway, just adding another anecdote here that I only really like hurting masochists. I don't really get off on my partner suffering for me to show their devotion (although I know some people do! it's a valid kink!). I just want us both to have a good time, playing some roles and exploring some sensations.
I prefer a masochist for letting out my sadistic urges. Between consent and response it just works better for me. It has perks like the masochist showing off bruises and the like with such pride and amusement.
Depends on the sadist and the masochist. Not all masochists like everything. For example some people prefer thuddy pain, they're sluts for it. But they cannot stand stingy pain. No less a masochist.
You can be a sadist and not a dominant - I 100% would HATE to know someone was putting up with pain for me. Even putting power dynamics aside, if someone's not enjoying the pain, how do I feel safe in dealing it out?? Sadist guilt is a real, huge thing, and that would just be a RECIPE for top-drop. I'm still causing masochists pain. They're still making fun noises when I do it. Win-win??
I just ... no. This feels like you deep-down believe the anti-kink thing that sadists are all wanna-be serial killers who enjoy inflicting pain on anyone at any time.
For me, true punishment is incredibly painful, even though I would classify myself as pretty masochist, and my Dom very sadist. But its not physical pain, he could be striking me, but knowing that I upset him or disappointed him, emotionally hurts me more than the pain could ever penetrate. The striking is just a vessel for that to come through, I could barely feel it, but its the cutting me deeply.
It really depends on the sadist and why they enjoy it. Some are excited about heavy masochists who want to take what they want to give. Others like someone taking pain for other reasons. I know someone who likes the power play element of someone taking pain as a demonstration of their partners submissive devotion.
I am a switch, a hard sadist as a Top and a hard masochist as a bottom, I prefer to play with a masochist if I am topping them because I can't play properly if I know I'm going to be hurting the person in a way they don't like and I prefer a hard sadist if I'm submitting because they can't hurt me the way I like if not, actually, my Master is a hard sadist and he LOVES to play with me with pain because of how much I can take and how much I love it.
As a masochist, a Sadist will understand and get excited when I'm crying huge tears from the pain if a whipping, or the torment of something he's promising. A sadist understands my heady mix of excited fear and agonized craving. I can let my masochist side out freely with a Sadist too, and the Sasiat can do the same with me.
I think there are bunches of different reasons why sadists enjoy dishing out pain, but the consistent thing is wanting to give pain. I don't know any non masochists who would agree to painful sex or encounters, even if their partner is a sadist. There's sadism and then there is being a bad person, as a young, dumb, unbruised masochist I've encountered people who claim to be sadists, but actively want me to dislike it. A particular person blatantly told me he didn't care about me, he just wanted to hurt me and get off. He wasn't a true sadist, he was an evil person. True sadists are yummy and kind and treat masochists the way they want to be treated, and give appropriate aftercare. They also value consent, and masochists are the only ones who give them the consent to cause pain. We need eachother 💕
I think it depends of definition.
I read a lot of comments here of people that gets pleasure of pain from deligthing its top. If you consider that a masochist, so yes, all non masochists won't agree with painful sex.
I don't think it's a useful description, though. I prefer to separate and admit that some non masochist may enjoy suffering SOME pain not because of the pain but because the top is being fulfilled.
It's never a clear line.
Nono. When I'm punishing a sub, I don't want them to actually completely dislike it. Just put them in enough pain to want to submit to me. I would never want them to dislike it though, that would start edging into rape lol. Hence, as a sadist, I need a masochist. Ideally, a heavy masochist who can take my punishments. Someone I can hurt and watch them scream and cry and beg as much as I like, but know that they're still into it
Reminds me of the old joke...
Q: What does a true sadist do to a true masochist?
My ex was a true masochist. She loved needle play, especially pussy and being pussy whipped. Degrading verbal play was also essential. I am not an "S" but I tried.
."OK, bitch, for that I'm giving you five more!"
"Was that ok, honey?"
I was the worst top ever.
I’m a big time masochist. And it’s 100% possible for my Dom (a sadist) to use pain to punish me! It’s all about mindset. When I know I’ve genuinely disappointed him by breaking a rule, my pain tolerance drops to almost zero. When it’s for fun, I have an extremely high pain tolerance.
Just because a sub is a masochist doesn't mean they don't have limits. I'm a masochist and pain punishments still work for me because, like everyone, I still have a pain threshold.
>I think a sadist will fell less pleasure (I doubt they won't fell nothing at all) for inflecting pain into a masochist.
It depends on the sadist. Moreover, not all masochists like all kinds of pain.
>Inflecting pain in someone that isn't masochist, or that much of a masochist, can that be achieved in a SSC way?
Yes. Someone doesn't have to enjoy pain to want to consent to it.
I'll deviate from the norm here.
I don't need a masochist but I prefer someone very submissive to someone very masochistic because I like the idea that they don't enjoy it. I think it can satisfy SSC very easily but it is a negotiated trade-off, I will be more dominant they will take more pain. At least that's what I'm looking for
It can satisfy SSC I think if they consent not because they enjoy the pain, but because they enjoy the pleasure you take
I know this post is like days old at this point, but I wanted to add something from my masochistic submissive perspective. Just because I’m a masochist doesn’t mean that I don’t still struggle to take pain. Pain is still painful, especially at the beginning of a scene before endorphins start kicking in. Being paddled or caned or flogged still hurts and I have to make myself take it because a) I know that it pleases my Dom and b) I know that eventually I’m going to feel fucking amazing. My Dom loves the struggle and knowing that I’m enduring things for him, but he wouldn’t want to hurt me if he didn’t think I was also finding it fulfilling.
Regarding pain as punishment. Punishments are not the same to me as playtime. Honestly, I even prefer to have toys/implements that we only use for punishment so it stays really separate. Let’s say I’ve done something wrong and my Dom has to punish me for it and he chooses 20 hard spanks. The fact that he’s having to punish me for being being bad automatically changes my mindset from sexy fun times, to oh shit I’m getting punished. That association is what makes it punishment for me and keeps me from finding pleasure in the pain.
As an extreme masochist I need a dom who doesn't handle me with care or kid gloves. My partner does not. I get out of sessions brusied, bloody, sobbing, and broken. Like legit broken. But that is my happiest. So it really depends. My partner is also an extremely sadistic cunt and I love him for it. And he loves me because I can take all the pain, vitriol, and hate (that I love and consent to) that made some other subs legit run in fear.
You can't throw legit haymakers into the ribs of a 'normal' sub and have them enjoy it. But that still hurts. I still breath heavy, wracked in pain. I still sob snd crumble like a non-masochisic sub does. I just don't run away after a scene is done.
So. Naaaah. I have found that a sadist needs a masochist just as much as a masochist needs a sadist.