Do you consider leaving your country?
By - Small-Chungus2
I would never want to leave my town. My father has been thinking about moving to beograd to work and later me and my mum should also move but hopefuly that wont happen
I respect your decision :) although I think Beograd has plenty of opportunities. Who knows, maybe I'll personally move there if its tough here.
Not from the Balkans, but thanks to one of the mods u/alpidzonka for allowing me to answer still.
1. Bleak future in my home country (see my flair) due to unstable politics and degrading economy. Also lack of opportunities (I graduated with B.Sc. Physics degree) and government's blatant devaluing and discrediting of scientists and the overall R&D on the country.
2. I aim for Canada. But if I won't be that fortunate there, I consider Australia, Ireland, or even Taiwan. But eventually, I will work my ass off to get a Canadian citizenship. But considering I come from a garbage country, even moving to Moldova will be heaven for me.
3. Definitely better. Our culture is toxic. All of our neighbors in Asia know that, and that's why all of them look down on us.
4. I don't have a passport yet (because it's still hard to apply for one, even if the government made the application online), plus money (I need to have at least half a million worth of savings in my currency to be able to move in a student visa. I haven't counted the expenses yet to acquire the required papers.) But even if I have a passport, our passport is weak as hell. For context, we can only travel Visa-free to about half as much as a Serbian passport holder has. Very weak, right?
5. Depends on the culture. I have to admit that there is prestige in our culture of marrying a "white" person (which is also a common mindset among Latin American countries). From my perspective, dating an Anglophone person might need less adjustment than, say, someone from Bulgaria (due to language and religion, for instance). But it will still depend on me and my partner. In addition, I am also a gay man and same-sex marriage or civil union are not yet legal here (due to our Constitution sticking to traditional definition of a family and marriage). Even national-level legal bills to protect LGBT against discrimination aren't that successful due to (religious) conservative lawmakers and groups standing against it. Even our military is against it! (WTF)
6. A BIG FUCKING NO! As I said, our culture is toxic, and many Filipinos who left the country for good have assimilated themselves very well in their new countries, especially in Anglosphere countries. (If I would have kids and they would want to be connected with my home country, I won't stop them. It's their life anyway, but if I had the success to leave and change citizenship, I would never visit my home country except for family reasons.)
7. There will definitely be homesickness and other cultural and financial adjustments (since if I emigrated, that would be my first time living alone, away from my family). But based on my experience with moving out and away from my past homes, give me a year and I will be well adjusted to my new home.
8. Do you mean how many years I'd be set back if I will stay any longer? Hard to tell, but I foresee myself regretting many things and opportunities missed out if I would stay here.
Every culture has its positives and negatives. When you are stuck in a bad situation it's hard to see them. For example in the US, Filipinos stand out as being really friendly, while a lot of Bulgarian immigrants still carry that famous miserable attitude around. I wish you luck in getting to Canada, and I think once you get there you'll see that there's a lot of great parts to your culture that you don't have to shed completely. But it will be your choice of course. Just my perspective as an immigrant who also has a LOT of criticism and frustration towards many aspects of Bulgarian culture.
Well, maybe it's just me knowing my own culture inside out + my unspoken unsatisfied huger to travel and experience a different culture and environment (which is honestly relatively easy for me because due to our colonial past, we have a significantly different culture compared to some of our neighbors like Vietnam, Thailand, and Japan), plus the economy amd quality of life going shit (I know it's global, but the fact that all our neighbors are expecting some growth but we're the only ones who won't experience one is frustrating). Emigrating out of here is a big dream of mine and I know it won't be easy, but eventually I will get there, holding my one-way ticket out of here, stepping into the plane.
Hey, dude, I know you're telling your story and everything, but I feel like you're being TOO negative about the Philippines.
"Our culture is toxic and our Asian neighbors know it"? That's not true. Malaysians and Indonesians, hell, all of Southeast Asia love us, and it's not just "YouTube comment about how the PH is best" love, it's real SE Asian appreciation and solidarity. Many foreigners DO admire us for what we are, and it's not just cheap "Pinoybait".
And yes, I know our gov't is SUPER FUCKING SHITTY right now, but I must admit, I'm tired of always thinking bleak stuff about my country all the time. That's why I don't go to r/ph anymore, it's full of overly pessimistic doomers who think everything about this country sucks and sees everything in black-tinted glasses.
And also, I don't agree with your views on assimilation; I guess it's because many of us "mainlanders" take our culture for granted so much that we forget that so many Fil-Ams yearn for genuine Filipino culture, all because their parents want to be "as 'Murican as possible".
Just sharing my two sentimos here.
I don't wanna be too tangential from the overall theme of this sub, but I already started this and might as well engage into a conversation.
After Locsin's recent outrageous revival of Sabah claims that the Aquino administration has practically buried after the Lahad Datu incident back then, many Malaysians online have been spamming any Filipino video in YouTube and Filipino commenters about Sabah being a part of Malaysia. Maybe that's just a vocal minority but unfortunately, some toxic peEn0is3 answered them about the Sulu sultanate's claim of Sabah as a reason for Manila's recent futile claim of Sabah. Most likely a battle of vocal minorities.
>I guess it's because many of us "mainlanders" take our culture for granted so much that we forget that so many Fil-Ams yearn for genuine Filipino culture, all because their parents want to be "as 'Murican as possible".
I used to chat with a Fil-Am who is so so proud of his Filipino heritage (particularly Ilocano heritage) he told me he would give up everything he has in America now just to live here, even if it means there's no turning back from the country he was born in (US).
I have read somewhere that anyone from Philippines need only a passport for going to Israel. Wouldn't that be a good change for you?
That's true, for 90 days. It's because of the Philippines' yes vote to found a Jewish state in '48 and the eventual diplomatic relations formed after a few years. So I don't think it's a change of any form.
As for going to Israel, I knew many friends in our ministry who had been to Israel (via a travel package years ago) and man, it's expensive ($1,100 for one-week tour). I honestly dream of visiting Israel someday, so one of my friends who had been in that trip told me to save up really hard for it. Maybe it's because Israel is literally a continent away from us plus the high cost of living in Israel which made travel packages expensive.
1. There are no good career opportunities in Croatia for my line of work.
2. Various are good. I'm currently in Germany.
3. I haven't noticed anything that's notably worse. The lower levels of everyday corruption is a better thing. Also, I really enjoy the driving culture here.
4. Nothing. I left almost a decade ago.
5. I don't care about the nationality of my partner. So, no, not at all.
6. I don't care about "roots", and language is just a tool. My potential children will speak the language most useful to them, and they will be a part of the culture in which they grow up in.
7. I found friends quickly, and visit my family often enough.
8. Set me back? Not at all. I only wish I made moved earlier.
I don't plan on moving anywhere, if I did, it would be France or UK because of their better economic factors. I also speak English and French, so that influences the choice. I wouldn't let my kids forget about their ethnic heritage and Serbia in general, they should consider it their 2nd home.
2. The Netherlands, maybe. Not sure.
3. Really hard to say. I think about the same because I really love the Dutch way of life.
4. Covid, procrastination... a lot
5. Not in the least
6. I will teach them Bulgarian and make sure we visit a fair amount
7. Please get me as far away from my parents as possible
8. Considering it’s for university, probably not much but definitely a little because of language barriers
I'm not from the Balkans, but can I answer? (In my country's sub, we rarely talk about the topic of leaving. If it does, it's mainly OP's personal reasons for leaving or something, but not a discussion like this. Or I just don't remember because it's too rare or I just have a poor memory. Haha)
FACE THE LEAD!
As of yesterday, I am seriously considering moving to N. Macedonia. I've always liked Macedonian anyway.
Те чекаме шефе
Јас ќе бидам македонско девојче
The tax administration issued a warning for all freelancers to pay their recently defined taxes that may go up to 47% and this wasn't new, it was just a reminder. Now, these taxes do carry benefits, but if your salary is 400 euros and after taxes you're left with 200 euros per month that's nothing to live on and sadly, that's a large number of freelancers here (youtubers, language teachers, content writers... you name it). Considering the unemployment rate over here, this was a way for people to put food on the table. I'm left without a way to support myself now and I'll have to leave my university for the second time because once again, I can't pay for everything I'm supposed to *and* stay healthy. From the moment the law was announced in October last year until January this year, a number of IT companies already moved to Romania and Estonia. Though some people claim this won't make a difference, I've already seen negative changes for the country and I'm not nearly as optimistic as they are.
Another thing about this whole conundrum is that freelancers are mostly free-spirited people and based on a number of them I had the chance to meet, they're generally not Vucic's voters. They couldn't be blackmailed in any way to vote for him (or anyone else) because they weren't existentially dependent on him or his party. The new law that decides what kind of a freelancer one is is written in a way that leaves way too much to interpretation, so how much tax one should pay depends on the auditor checking them at the moment and if another auditor decides one was actually a different kind of freelancer, they may be forced to pay the difference + the interest rates. That's way too much space for potential manipulation of all kinds and for all purposes.
Yesterday, a guy from our sub with a master's degree in English language and literature asked if a supermarket would hire him so he could work for a minimum wage, because teaching online wasn't viable for him anymore. That's a pretty good picture of what's been happening to small freelancers since December. As for the bigger picture and the economy at large, this is a terrible decision in that regard as well. The influx of foreign money that freelancers and companies used to bring will be severely diminished. The big taxes the government is hoping to rake in are going to disappear in a few years as well, as bigger IT and design companies move somewhere else and small freelancers are destroyed. That's the gist, I think.
You should move over here. Freelancers pay 7.5% income tax + a fixed amount on social insurance. On an income of 400 EUR you'd get a net of around 300. Which is still shit. But the benefits start to kick in once you make more, because you will only still pay 85 euro for social insurance, and 7.5% tax on the rest of your income. So on 1000 EUR gross you get 850 net.
In Macedonia you don't pay any social contributions but you're also left without any safety net and no health coverage. It's risky IMO.
>Which is still shit.
I mean, they do take some, but compared to 47% tax you're left with quite a bit.
I am guessing that 47% includes social insurance, right? How would it scale to say a gross income of 1000 EUR? Still 47%?
Yeah, it includes social insurance. Still 47%, no progressive taxation until way, way higher salaries. The thing is, the tax itself isn't even the biggest problem, it's a special test made for freelancers that was supposed to give us a place in the legal system, but it was written in such a bad way that quite a lot of freelancers don't clearly fit one type or another and therefore don't even know how much tax they should pay. The safest option is to pay 47%, but then for many of them freelancing doesn't pay off and is very risky legally.
Sounds like a typical case of government over-regulation... happens here too, thankfully they haven't played with the tax system (yet).
He misses sharing a country with a huge Albanian minority.
I don't mind any number of Albanians as long as they're nice :)
Before you move check this article just to know the state of the field.
Also, for reference, 61.5 mkd is 1€.
Thanks, it's gonna be a while before I can actually do something about it and I first have to transition to IT, so...
1- Bad Economy, Dumb people, Politics, Country’s bad reputation
2-Japan. Dunno but I don’t want to move Europe or NA racism I think
4- My family, Language barrier, Fear for couldn’t able to find a job
5-No. If she loves me and cares about me it wouldn’t be that hard
7- After sometime can become manageable
8- About a year or so
Hey man, you do you, but boy oh boy do I have some news for you regarding racism in Japan.
Yeah but I also heard that only old people are racist younger generations are totally fine with foreigners
I mean, I believe they too are opening up slowly, but I still think that a place like Canada, the UK and, yes, Germany are all way more open to immigrants than Japan.
Oh yea, but if they see ya working yer arse of more then them then they shut their mouth.
1. Corruption, bad economy, bad education and bad hospitals.
2. Ireland, it's English-speaking, good economically and not that far away from the homeland.
3. I feel like it'd be better for me, I can't say for sure though.
4. Money, still studying, no EU passport.
5. No, I'd prefer to marry a foreigner to be honest but it's not my main criteria.
6. I don't care, it'd be nice if they learned Macedonian for their own enrichment but I couldn't care less if they didn't.
7. Yes, I mentally fare better away from my family.
8. I don't understand the question well but I'd say it wouldn't set me back.
1. Already left and because of economic reasons
2. I'm in Slovenia rn but might move to the Netherlands
3.Well we are pretty close culturally but they have different menatlity so overall i'd say only slightly worse
5. Already have a Slovenian girlfriend and I couldn't be happier
6. My future kids will never forget their roots because I am their father, simple as that. I will also teach them all about my homeland, history, cyrillic, stories, famous people, ...
7. I have family with me and back in Serbia, also the fact that they are in close proximity makes this question irrelevant, also no problem with finding friends
8. I moved in a month so this is also irrelevant
1) no, not realy.
2) Germany or Ireland
3) I've lived in total 6 months in Germany, love their culture, so probably better.
4) I have build roots and a very comfortable life here.
5) When i was a young wolf, i would have loved to marry a foreigner, but nope i married localy.
6) I dont care about it. Its their lifes.
7) if i ever move i'm taking my wife and kids with me.
8) Dont understand the question.
1- People, economy, job oppurtunities and conditions
2- Preferably Northern or Central Europe
3- I don't think the North has such a rich culture like Turkey or Balkans so it might count as being worse. Although I believe life standarts to be a little higher at least.
4- Waiting to finish University.
5- I think adjustments won't be hard if we really have a connection.
6- If I'll marry to a non-Turkish person and don't live in Turkey, they will surely be far from that culture. But they can chose where they belong to themselves. I'll teach them a bit of Turkish and about Turkey too so they'll know about it after that it's upto them to chose who they are where they belong but I'd be happy if they'll at least remember it.
7- I already live without my family mostly since I'm studying at University in a different city (not currently though since covid). It's easy cause I know they are really close and I can visit anytime, but it might be hard at first to adjust this in a different country.
8- I don't think moving would set me back drastically.
Edit: These are very good questions by the way :0
1. Don't have any, really. I'd only move if I got some once in a lifetime opportunity in terms of job or something, otherwise I'm fine here.
2. Slovenia is as far as I could go into more developed Europe while staying in my comfort zone (I can speak Slovenian and know the country quite well). All the other countries that I really like are in the Balkans and don't exactly scream "great job opportunities".
3. I think that all Europeans are culturally closer to eachother than what we might think. Except the Dutch. They have an asshole gene ingrained in their bodies or something, judging from my past experiences.
4. Aside from the fact that this is my home, I genuinely think life isn't bad at all in Croatia. Don't want to jinx anything, what with the coming crisis and all, but I think I'll manage here.
5. No, not really. Unless the woman would happen to be Serbian in which case my grandfather might be big mad.
6. No, but I guess if I lived in the diaspora, the culture my kids would grow up in would be more "Yugo" rather than solely Croatian. People from our region tend to stick together in places like Germany or Sweden. Even in Slovenia they have the concept of *čefurji*.
7. Not really, I'm socially adaptable, I think.
8. I wouldn't move unless I had some sort of a managable plan, so I wouldn't see it as a setback.
1. Better career choices and i kinda dont fit in with the mentality of people here.
2. Any Scandinavian nation, most of central Europe, Australia.
3. Dont really have an opinion
4. Im lazy so i cant get myself to start trying.
5. I have no issues with that cause i only care about how nice people are and not from where they are.
6. Well i wouldnt let it happen cause im someone who likes researching history and i know a good amount of my countries history.
7. Im a huge introvert and i dont like spending a lot of time around my family anyway.
8. It can only push me forward at this point
Where are you from, you should get yourself a flair
1) No opportunity, if there's opportunity, the rent is not affordable.
2) North Italy, Spain, Germany(for a little there), Australia, France(also for a little), rich Arab countries(here for a very little), Japan(for a very little) .
3) In Germany and France definitely worse, south Spain and Italy is pretty similar, in Arab countries except Egypt definitely worse, in Japan also worse.
4) Not enough money
6) Hell no. If I have kids with a foreigner, my kids will learn the Cretan Greek and traditions first and then the common Greek and traditions.
8) - 10
Is Cretan Greek and usual Greek very different?
Yeah. The dialect and the accent is pretty different. For example, what in Greek is tì, but in Cretan Greek it is ìnda. Then, the Cretan accent is more "singy" while the common Greek sounds like a Spanish speaking robot.
> Spanish speaking robot
Well Greek seems very hard to me as a Turkish native speaker.
I'd say the UAE. I just love the lifestyle there. And please don't attack me with the 'slavery' stuff
How? They're so superficial. It's so obvious that they got rich just a few years ago. Also it's unbearably hot during summer.
I don't care. I'd just want to live there for 6-7 years. Regarding summers, yes, it is tough, but eh I will survive
Yeah but first you will be afraid.
You will be petrified.
>I would wholeheartedly support my kids to learn English, German/Dutch over Bosnian. Whatever gives them more opportunities in life, and makes their life easier.
I don't understand why people think this way. Kids are sponges. If you speak bosnian to them at home, and they learn english and german/dutch in school, they will speak 3 languages fluently. I know this because I am from diaspora. I spoke with my parents and gradparents Bosnian in the house, and now I speak english and french, and there are some bosnians who can barely speak any bosnian. Speaking multiple languages opens you up to several worlds and makes you less closed minded. I find it very depressing when I see young Bosnian couples speaking english to their kids. Most of the kids I know today that can't speak much Bosnian wish they did.
If you yourself only know english/bosnian, and speak english poorly, then it makes sense to speak the language you know fluently to your children. Not sure why you would limit them in that aspect.
I don't see me leaving anytime soon, but I am indeed considering it.
1. Bad economy still and a lack of solid opportunities outside of Athens which I'd absolutely hate to move to.
2. The UK, France, UAE. I have good friends in all those places and I'm fluent in English and French, so there could be something there. A much younger me would have said the USA, but fuck that.
3. Both better and worse in different aspects.
4. Friends, some family, my current job. Not a lot really.
5. I don't think so.
6. No, I'd do my best to teach them about it. I'm only afraid they'll end up like some of the cringiest (mostly older) groups of our diaspora.
7. As I mentioned, I already have good friends in the places I consider moving to, so that shouldn't be a massive problem and as for family, well my relationship with mine is complicated so I'll be fine I think.
8. What does the question mean exactly? I only see it as a benefit.
1 - I'll be highly paid. Currently in my field of work (assembly of metal constructions and climbing walls) I am paid like shit and even world known leaders like Walltopia pay minimal wage to their workers and the rest is given as bonuses and so on. In 30 years when I have to get my pension I'll get fuckall because some rich tard didn't pay me fair and counted most of my money as "bonuses".
2 - any western country. Probably Germany or Austria
3 - Nah I've been to both countries and the cultural shock is manageable.
4 - Corona and the uncertainty around it
5 - eh, idk, I've never thought about finding a partner. It's really waay down on my list.
6 - again, p. 5.
7 - since I do stay for weeks and even months when I am on a wall installation, I don't have problems with that.
1. I have already left, it's not up to me
2. Canada or Russia
3. Maybe better
4. My parents
5. no, that would be great!
6. I am that kid so, no...
7. Yes, for me it would be better
Canada better. Don't go to the enemy and corrupt country.
why is Russia a corrupted country?
i wanna go there bc there's a university I am interested in. soooo